planning for a celtic block among nations leaving this yuki. it's not the same and it's not supposed to be more. bowman says i've called that the best you know, to kill them for a very long time. fisma best says, give island back to the either. let the d p r do their case and the united islands . while harvey says, we need an english independence party. and finally, billy holland says, the all skies ation of my nation ends with independence. pick, talk the empires on the cook. now know that since the heat of hit tv see these ross polls arg was busy. what's in excitement across this rugged coastline high taxation, and cornwell gone so well together. because despite the queen that the jewel of cornwall saint i've was chosen as this weekend's to 7 location because exemplifies clean and green issues, it says the marquee will of the filthy lucre which has dominated the stomach, run up. a minimum corporate tax of 15 percent, whether not towards the long campaign or online transaction sags had been proposed

and agreed by the finance ministers. however, is this a giant step forward just claimed by chancellor issue tonight or an elementary set over for the corporate giants? i suggested buying them in short, will the accommodation between pick tick and bid governments make the weak stronger, or just the strong richer. to discuss with alex george, kevin, i'm professor richard murphy. professor richard murphy. the tragedy says the chancellor ritchie's tonight because i leave the finance ministers to take money off the, the big corporate and presumably give it to the, the what all spurred what's not to like about that. well, let's be clear. we've had an extraordinary and historic agreement announced, it's only announced this is not signed up, this is not finalized. there's no way to get and they're all good dimensions to this. i like the fact that there's a minimum tax rate agreed,

but i'm already hearing that people are agreeing the 15 percent should now be the well minimum tax rate. no, it is the rule village below which you don't get. this is aimed at the law, the world's largest corporations. they have been seeing their tax rate cuts the years and have been exploiting the world's tax havens to make sure they pay even less than they were being asked to do. so that's good stuff in here, but there's bad stuff in here to festival that 50 percent minimum tax rate is far too low. the average o e c d tax rate is 25 percent. so why did they agree something so far below the average cd tax rate below the u. k tax rate. and this deal with regards to the reallocation of profits of developing countries is tiny. i've looked at the accounts of bartlett's, just as an example. they make a 40 percent tax rate. that's a profit margin only know point 8 percent of their profits will be reallocated

towards the countries where the customers are. and the amount of tax that might be involved is less than $30000000.00. let's not get too excited about the fact that this is going to sell the world's problems, not part of the one. the minimum tax rate could that only if it was more than 50 percent. so a deal, a breakthrough deal. but one which has yet to meet expectations, the g 20 should improve this enormously on the way. is my suggestion? well, just kind of qualified welcome from richard. my papers that you estimation. are you even more skeptical? i'm afraid to admit to be a bit more skeptical. i think we're having the woo, poor our eyes by biting his crony job. the only cd, the big, the big west and industrial nation the same time because we tried to broker texting for years and has managed to get green. so i think what we're seeing with the g 7, which is a smaller group of nation, is by trying to run support. so we can go next month to venice. we're all between

she 20 and 21 over on the chinese and the brazilians and the indians. and we will see whether that will work. and actually if you look at the school prince of g 7 agreement, lots of loopholes, lots of things still to be decided above all, who gets taxed, how does it delay about which companies, and supposedly big companies, but war comes as big. what they're talking about is companies earn a profit rate of over 10 percent. does that include amazon? know, amazon comes in about $67.00 to say because of the way the mythical fit of pick up books. so i think there's a lot which coolness, it's a game, it's a dance between the big sport nation still can get crew of a fate. your tech sation specialist perspective, live appointment just kind of makes about amazon and the level of profit. is that why ox 5 must say this is going to be an easy step for the many of the big multi

nationals it is for amazon. i mean, we have to put it in a box by itself, which regards to this, all the other tech companies, the facebook's, the google's, the microsoft and so on are all going to be caught by this. they all making more than 10 percent profit rates. amazon is fundamentally a retailer with regard to a great deal of its active duty and has one other division which supplies web services to other companies which is highly profitable, overall, making 6 or 7 percent. it would be very difficult to find the deal that the not bring in most of the world's companies into this arrangement without if you wanted to keep amazon in it. i mean, literally you have to extend it diversely, everyone quite clearly that was not going to win support in the g 7. i doubt it was going to win support in the g 20. so there's a compromise be made. amazon will 4 miles of this deal. it does not make much money

compared to the other company to proportions turnover. so each is going to get away with this. but it is not a pure tech company, not the rest. what is surprising about this deal is how many companies have being drawn into it. so for example, richie seen that because now realize that he signed to deal with brings very large parts of the city of london inside this arrangement, which i don't think he understood law affected and he's now tried to back try call . i mean, how false can this government turn? do you turn on the deal? it's already agreed. this rate. it's a few days for the already saying, can we have a call outside the u. k. out of this deal, having any agreed it last weekend. so that all i would totally agree with george some really big issues here. i just don't think amazon is the stumbling block that should stop as doing the best we can. can i also agree with georgia something. there's a lot of negotiation to go here. now i know that negotiation process i have spent far too many hours in the basement with the cd in paris,

where the negotiating table literally are. they are on the ground and shatteau in the outskirts of paris. and i was heavily involved in the last 20132015 literally in the room. and there will be those rooms again, you know, so i might end up back. but the point is that actually the devil is in the details . and in this case, the devil is going to be around the accounting. what is a profit margin? what is turn over? large companies, high tax figures in 3 statements in their accounts, not just one. the most people seem to think it's in the income statement, but it isn't. all of these technical things need to be taken into account. very few people have actually discuss matters yet. i put up a whole series of questions which a lot of journalists that looked at on my blog saying, look, there really is a nightmare in terms of the gas station to go here. and there will be a lot of game playing to come. these companies are great to play. there's one group you can guarantee you who are going to be opposing this. and that's the big for

firms of accountants. because this deal is bad news for the tax havens who charge 0 percent tax, which have been used very heavily by the tech companies, which are serviced by those big 4 firms of accountants. they are going to find their business is threatened by this, which is what the intention is after that really is the a me and said they're going to fight hard when they fought hard in 2013 to 15 again . something cool country by country reporting, which i created, which is now the norm, which is the basis of a lot of this deal. and they're going to fight hard this time too. so we are nowhere near a final deal yet, but i think we could get the delivery would be more optimistic than george. but that 15 percent tax rate is way too well. just kind of a wrench a month. it says a lot of bells ringing and the big for the characteristic companies. but some of the big corporate have made quite favorable responses to this picture to deal with that. clegg was the 1st of all a statement. does that said unit allow, bells, reg?

well, nicholas was, was, was hired to be to be a front man for, to flew away at the rough edge. and so let's not take too much attention to him. the big high take comfort for the big american ones, like google, they are microsoft. they are, they make a fortune and they take that money so they can so much. tasha go up over loss that you simply tell them to give it back to their shareholders. but hey, by the chance, can we talk too much even bother investing? cuz they're on the outlets. and so they're going to buy a little a little you know, public relations with i'm intrigued by the fact that richard was saying about what happens to the big banks, the investment banks, the hedge funds,

who operate international, how they going to be taxed. most of the discourse has been about about the export company. but you know, you're around with microsoft i, i could see the deal ending out not a big financial company. escape the tax issue. i think that will be the major full grain in the debates. will the next year, many americans always be good about keeping the financial sector of any international agreements. so we could see, we could see, see that that coming. that would be by both by but you can just look at the small print, the richer was saying we're just this new tax for the whole 50 percent. everything is good. companies to be taxed are those early a profit rate of 10 percent and above. and they get to choose 10 percent. it's a, it's a tax comes on hasn't got both the 10 percent and even only on the 5th wrapped. so you want to know how much extra text is going to be what we see the estimates i've

seen, which is $50.00 to $80000000000.00 global war. we're comp that $5080000000000.00 googly. it's frankly, in terms of international company peanuts. so don't expect lot of money is going to end up in the national real search, right, rental data. and what progress on should we read? the fine print? read the fine print, but we could make progress if we negotiate. well, join us after the break when alex continuous, this conversation was george kevin richard murphy. we'll see you then me hear what our annual summer solution, where we know not on the problem. but on the solution, the one of the persian gulf, the wealthiest country is,

has spent billions of dollars on state of the art stadiums. wow. look at this, the stadium is really taking shape. you can see the bowl and most of the stands now, when we were here a little bit over a year ago, at the same construction site, it was just a foundation and a few metal structures. so it seems that time why this idea to use shipping containers as building blocks has definitely paid off. i mean, they're easy to assemble and easy to dismantle, just like playing with lego. for the 1st time in a world history, the stadium will be billed from shipping containers and what's more, it will be completely dismantled after the tournament. me is your media a reflection of reality?

in a world transformed what will make you feel safer? type relation or community. are you going the right way or are you being somewhere direct? what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted, you need to defend the join us in the depths will remain in the shallows. i welcome back. alex is in conversation with george, kevin, i'm professor richard murphy. i professor much of what you make of this. these are boxed by us treasury said john yellen,

who seems to be advocating occasions in expansionist course for the world economy. and telling the g 7 to lead the way, i believe that is what she thinks, i think janet yellen is leading us in a keynesian expansion. it's very clear that biden is breaking all the rules. he does not think that that needs to be repaid in the usa, and he and she are communicating to the world open york office spend when you can, you have what is called preschool head room. that means there is literally the capacity in very many countries. germany in particular, the u. k. still has plenty of fiscal capacity to spend more, get people to work, prevent time employment, get the economy investing in the things we need, like to bring you deal. yeah, i think they really want to do that. that's their plan. does cover the should be music to your radical else. i've been sleepy. joe biden was not so sleepy after all . yeah, absolutely, absolutely true. i mean, we are, we are on the cusp of, of, of

a major economy change since 2070 the, the banking crisis won't enter the deflationary period. you may think on inflation disappear but essentially means that it is difficult to make coffee because the best coffee when you get, when you get in place and they keep bumping the price. ah, plus their whole you political challenges and clearly america, stacey, them, china. so the american state wants to spend more money as a little with some, some head there. i'm a little bit cautious in the sense that coby has disrupted lots of supply change change it might take, you know, was a year, maybe 5 years, maybe the decade to get things sorted out. so that there are pockets of shorter just this recording inflation here and there. but by a lot i think by many back to decide if you have to spend china and america back on

top. and that's what's happening is politics. you have just taken on ranch about is that the half of us behind the economics is this. the american administration say look, the wretched man's club, the g 7, the western economies is tightened to lead the way. and since there's nobody attractive leading the world into passionate recession, better lead the world into a sustained recovery. is that what's behind us? while i pick up, one of the words you use which was sustained and the, i think it might be a sustainable recovery. i mean, it's very bizarre to have by the man that we didn't expect to be a radical being so radical and maybe in us because he expects to only be a single term precedent. so he's just going to throw everything against the wall in this 1st term. and he's going to make the changes he wants straight away. i believe that is about china is a fact for this, but i'm not the only one. i mean,

they are really trying to beat the republicans, and the republicans have got a very hard core supports. we can see which is still around from and so they've got to convince middle, and you're working close america, that that is a future for them because they have lost out very badly in recent decades. that is a crisis and middle class incomes. now this policy invest, spend, do sustainability, rebuild the infrastructure of america is a domestic policy, as well as an international policy. but i think he's also hearing his radical democrats standing on the sidelines said to him, green new deal, green new deal to jo. deliver us what we want, and i add all those together. you come out with this well mix which is a pure keynesian inflationary policy in the sense of inflating the economy all, i don't think it will deliver long term inflation by the way. i agree with george that i think that that is a short term long term. what wages are not going to write that radically. so he put

together a very clever package. it just kind of them, how much intellectual thinking in terms of the economics is behind. so, i mean, this is a response to the world crisis. the one of the pandemic caribbean future radical action on the 2nd, a combination of new monitors, a new kinsey, and actually some intellectual base for thing. a lot of people have been 55 to what a the fiscal deficit for 5 too long. i think i think it's pragmatic crawls and see every 6. but i think there's adorning realisation night states. and here in the u. k. that government can print money, least in the short term lease it crisis and get away with it. so we'll see what we're thinking back or say yeah. is that what kind of restrictive fiscal policies

that dominated to consumptive thinking bossy will of $1020.00 is? i'm just going to wind up printing press as me trying to get dollars times the roof has pulled in. and i think the culture of injury as well. ok let's. let's make a while we can, we can spend somebody in by ourselves some support. and so some of our problems know where all these aids up, i think, could be with a headache. i don't think you can call me simply by printing money, but i think for the, for the mix, the laker cycle, we're clearly going to see this dominate. and i think as usual the, the economists will try and pick up pieces. but take so much my faith, both yourself and johns, kevin usa, observes love and commentator jobs as a practitioner, of course, as a former member of parliament have been involved in the scottish constitutional

debate that that's what we are talking about. how the dramatic effect on one debate, which is whether scotland should have a central bank and have one as quickly as possible. once is independent, we want to get money picking economic opportunities. does that have a direct impact on that debate? yes, it does. it does because the scotland is independent. it's too well once a part of this investment program, it's who will want to deliver agree and new deal. and to do that, it has to have the ability to print money. now i'd rather you were create them printed because all of this stuff is electronic, of course, and it's done through quantitative easing. scotland also needs control over its tax system, which isn't possible without control over the central bank of money. i think the 3 fundamental un intimately linked who control the impacts of that money creation, particularly the impact upon the quality, which is the one that worries me most about this because a lot of the money that is creative ends up in the hands of the richest in society now scotland f one needs to have an integrated macro economic policy to handle this

and to deliver the growth the people in scotland will expect after independence. that's why they wanted dependence fix the single hang together. and the scottish, the scenario which demands that, that really will have to be a very short transition from sterling to a scottish pound or whatever it is called does kind of and you got us overwhelming us to, to scream, sent me a form of detractors. look at what's happening and what old economics and apply to the scottish situation. absolute and deep. if we had be independent from the referendum in 2014 and we kept pound sterling at this moment, the scottish government would pick up the creek. it wouldn't be able to create money. richard says that wouldn't be able to cover the can pandemic crisis. and the funding of that, it had had to go cap in hand to the city of london to try and borrow users into interest rates. i mean, the hoping would have been

a debacle. you can have independence and have somebody else when you're come. see your policy and your punish. suppose the independence means monetary independence. that should be see that we haven't got back clear by know that when, when we have a will, it wasn't that came from self assess what the facts james, and i changed my mind with the facts. he did. indeed, we did it even though he was a rare preg pregnancy to keeping his his class. and is this going? i have to, we have to learn the lesson and keep, keeps called going operate in scotland interest roles the bank of interest. lastly, to radical economists. so as i've passenger, let's look at a distribution across the plot and g, southern maybe leading the way enough and expand say direction may be starting to tax those. so the, the tax, how much of the world's poor going to see if the, if the tub and so you to fab, ellia, richard murphy, it to the percentage that might go to,

to helping live those on the us. tell me it's an underlying concern and you have in terms of this, that's what looks like promising economic initiatives. this is a fundamental concern and it's actually a change of emphasis within the g. a g 7. i was that the 2013 sub at jeff, my dad, the cameras, remember him where he had it and we actually have the mountains in law. and no, none of them which focused upon the fact that the rewards of tactical should go to developing countries. the reality is that this, the, it is not going to do that, not by a long way. and i mentioned already, i spent time at the scene during that period, and i remember talking to the chinese and some indian indians who will say, we won't share and there's a very aggressive in africa. there's also going to be leading the job and they're very good. now i'm going to be in the debate 100, but they're not going to be left outside when it comes to the town. so i really do

not expect to deal with seeing a present as being the one that will end up with this horrible biased towards head office of countries like you like the usa, like to be and we see a better. i don't believe they'll buy it less that changes just kevin, how are we going to avoid those who have been in the head? and as we say in scotland of what old economics for so long having the, the same treatment as we move into a new environmentally sustainable. what all the costs of that change and see very few of the benefits. how can we avoid such a mile distribution of one of the sources continuing well at about $140.00 countries because the negotiation to we c d on a global tech, steel, and ultimate, they all have to be brought within the tent. so i think i think they should use this moment to say to the g 7. ok, that's your opening off offer,

but we want more certainly of a 15 cent tax rate needs to rise and so poor. i think we need, we need a bit of a bit of, of international association. and i think the, the, the, the poor nations. critically some, some of the develop missions like brazil has to be prepared to say no deal unless we get what we want. so the u. k. u k has already remember past the tax new tax on digital competence and hilbert in billiards after the truck groves. butch, i big u. k. right away to implement its digital text cream off the money. and we could use that, for instance, to, to get our, our percentage payment for international aid up to back to it should be done. kevin, professor, richard murphy. thank you so much for joining me again. i'm, they are, simon, she'll thanks, alex. thank you. chancellor. su su night is came to strength,

it was he who parsley rallied the g 7 finance ministers to pursue the 15 percent corporate tax. indeed, you can change the passion. we've talked about the big time for the take jones to pay their fair share. however, to other statements, you can pause for thought before the chancellor. it's inaugurated, as corn was answer to robin hood. first, as international charities appointed, the 15 percent minimum represents a very low bar on some 10 percent less than the level originally emitted by american president. for 2 seconds and even more interestingly, the 10 giants themselves have well convinced it. now sometimes when tuck is apparently bought for christmas, it is as well to check whether they are really turkeys and whether it's really christmas. more significantly, this seems like a shift to the consumer power of the big battalion. it is clear that the big

economy is looking for ways to be, so they're treasury coffers and the post covered world shift a new source from big corporate to big government. what it's less clear is whether any of this me distribution will find a way to the countries which are genuinely on the upper. indeed, the still martinez controlled massey over the u. k. governments cut in it's in budget rather fairly through attempts to present themselves as any friend or ally of the world's poor. but for now from alex myself, an all issue, stay safe. i hope to see you all again, next week. ah, [000:00:00;00] me in

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