very popular, i worked on imaging black horse when it was more popular, derby additional wave astrophysics, which is now one of the major frontiers in us are physics. what's really cool early on. and so i'm used to that situation. but if i were a young scholar, i would worry about my job prospects, and that is definitely a chilling experience to witness the pushback. but senior people have towards thinking outside the box. i think the biggest problem with that is that it deter young people from innovating from taking risks. well, i know that the, your current book came out just there earlier this year and geared primarily towards the general audience. it's a big hit among lay stargazers like myself. and i think one of the main reason for success is that unlike this community, most of us actually fascinated by the idea that we may not be alone in, in the universe. and you're actually argued that this whole, this fascination has

a distance statistical probability given how many earth systems like our as exist, is that right, right. in fact, that humans tend to think that there we are special, unique and privileged. and we are born into this world, like actors put on a stage and we don't know what that plays about, but we can study the universe. we see that the stage is huge. it's 10 to the power 26 times bigger than our body, where suddenly not at the center of it like our historical, the ancient greek philosopher used to argue. and then, moreover, the play has been going on for 13800000000 years. and so we came only at the end we are the play is definitely not about us. so let's try and find out if there are other actors out there. and maybe they had the better idea about the play. and we now know that about half of the stars that look like the sun hebert planted the

size of the earth roughly at the same separation. and if you arrange for similar circumstances, you might as well get similar outcomes like technological civilization. the fact that we are, and in fact most of the stars formed so fierce before the sun. and so if they had to come a logical civilizations around them, they pre baited us. and then they were able to send a lot of equipment into space that we can search for just like we sent the voyager, one borgia to know bryson's, and i call the space archaeology. now before we go to the base archeologist the term, ed, what do you think the probability of a face to face? so to sol, intelligence to intelligent contact is that likely? i think most likely is that we will find the equipment floating through space that was sent by an advanced civilization. it's the experience will be similar to walking on the beach. most of the time you see rocks or seashells that were

produced naturally, but every now and then you encounter a plastic bottle and that gives you an important message even if it's not functional. it says that the civilization is out there. and most of the equipment that we will find will not be operational because those civilization so dead by now those that sent it. but then it will give us a very important lesson about the history of things that were like us in the past. and then, you know, i think that we are probably not special unique though. it used to be many more like us in the past. the, just like the number of ends on the sidewalk. and nobody paid special attention to each and every and when walking on the street. and that's why nobody cares about us . we need to look out and search for them. now, one of the main contentions of your book is that in 2017, we were actually appro by a large object, an object like this, besides of

a football field with somewhat a typical patterns of feed, live reflection. and you argue that it may actually be of artificial origin, tells about that right? in october 2017. the 1st object from outside the solar system was spotted near earth by a telescope in hawaii. and it was given the name on more and more, which means the scouting the hawaiian language. at 1st, astronomers assumed that it must be iraq of the type that we have seen in the solar system. either an asteroid, the bare rock or a comment rock that is covered with ice, that gets evaporated when it comes close to the sun. the only problem is that when we looked at it, it didn't have any commentary tail. there was no variation of gas or dust around it at the very tight limits. and then if it was tumbling and reflecting sunlight,

the amount of light that the reflected changed by a factor of thin and duct implied a very extreme shape. most likely pancake like a flat shape, which is quite unusual for these asteroids or comments that we usually see. and then the exhibited an excess push away from the sun, the decline being versus with distance squared. and that cannot be explained by the rocket. the spectrum of operating gases because we haven't seen anything any to the last about the 10th of its massy beach where to be pushed by of operation. so the only explanation that i could think of was reflection of sunlight is pushing it. and for that the object needed to be very thin, sort of like a sale on the boat except being pushed by reflecting light. it's called the light sale. and as it turns out, in september 2020 last year, there was another object discovered that exhibited an as push from the sun as

a result of reflecting sunlight and head no commentary. it was discovered by the same telescope, but their strong immerse realized, oh, it is a rocket booster that was launched the $966.00 in lunar land, their mission. and we know that it had very seen waters. and that's why it had a lot of area for each mass and it could have been pushed through reflecting sunlight. we know that he thought the official because we produced it. the question is, who produced on? we're more just to clarify. you're not saying this is the sort of spaceship passing by because it's still just low to be or functionally traveling. as far as i understood it, say you believe that this is, this may be some sort of space garbage that you know, other civilizations have left behind, is that right? it's most likely space, trash or equipment that is not functional anymore. or it could be a layer of something bigger that was ripped apart. the point is that nature doesn't

make very thin solid objects of the stipend. that's why i suggested that maybe it's artificial. and of course the best way to tell is to take a photograph. they say a picture is worth a 1000 words. in my case, a picture is worth 66000 was the number of words in my book, extraterrestrial, i wouldn't need to write this book if we had the photograph and we can get the photograph on a future object that we'd be discovered early enough on its approach to us, we can send a spacecraft with a camera that will take a close up photo by intercepting its trajectory. and we've done that with the mission of cyrus rex, but got very close to the asteroid ben, and actually landed on it. and took a piece of it the some material that the to bring back to our thing 2023. so just imagine seeing enough show object that looks like

a piece of equipment doesn't look like a rock and we, we land on it. so as we know from living on earth, garbage always comes in huge quantities. how common upside things like this con, many years we have to, you know, put together a probe like yours you just described. yeah. so in fact, when i go to the kitchen and i find an and i get alarm because i know there must be many more and out there. and then you can estimate, given the fact that we surveyed this guy for a few years and found one such object of the size of the football field, you can estimate how many objects one would expect per unit volume such that we would see one of them every few years within the orbital earth around the sun. and it turns out that if they move on random trajectories, if you have objects moving in all directions that without any sense of purpose,

then there should be a quadrillion such hope. it's right now within the solar system, a lot of them just like and seen a kitchen. if on the other hand, the object had a purpose, to visit the inner region of the solar system and check what is going on there. the habitable zone around the sun, then you need much fewer objects. and so we don't really know the statistics until we find more of the same. and the worst thing we can do is just say it's a rock. it's always rocks. it's never artificial, never aliens, therefore business as usual. that's the worst thing we can do. the best thing we can do is find more objects of the same and learn more about them. now you said that they are, they were the 1st thing we can do to sort of discarded as unimportant. and yet this is, it seems to be the predominant scientific attributes for now. you mentioned before

that you faced a lot of pushback from your fellow colleagues. even stating that as a high process is let alone investigating it any further. what do you think is behind this resistance? well, most scientists, like most people prefer to stay in their comfort zone and continue to believe that then everything they find the should line up with what they already know. in addition, there is resistance to discussing in because of unsubstantiated reports on an identified flying objects that do not stand up to the scrutiny of science. there are these stories that are science fiction. and so a lot of scientists worried about their image and therefore keep a distance from any discussion on exit the restoral. intelligence with technology. in my mind, it should be part of the mainstream of science because the public is fascinated by instruments. to answer the question, are we the smartest kid on the block?

you know, if we close the curtains on the windows and say we don't have neighbors and we are the smartest in the world. it wouldn't change the fact whether we have neighbors or not. it would be just like the philosophers that refused to look through the telescope. arguing that this sun moves around the earth, they knew that. and it's the biggest mistake. one can make us assign this size is guided by evidence. he said dialogue with nature. we learn from nature and every now and then there are facts. the do not line up with what we expected. and we should embrace that. we should be excited about this because we can learn something new. absolutely, well, dr. let's take a pause in our own dialogue right now because we have to get very short break, but we will be back in just a few moments. the me are

ah, ah. phoenix does actually got an uncommon face men's clothing and showed a hole stuck. it's a kind of s can feminism, its name is hook me up, put a human level, some of the whole model that it was, it was on the job. but you know, the one that gave me she lives in one of the most dangerous and patriarchal provinces of afghanistan coast lacy, which time i thought sure, no, i shall do. but i haven't set up a new kid. i'm glad you got me knows that she does her best to fight for women's rights. i am not able to get

that done. as you know, what i do, i know that she's not here by her nickname. the king was i got it much other than it was really good. i driven by dream shaped by those in me dares thing. we dare to ask

me. ah, choose me a welcome back to the park with abbey at low astrophysicists at harvard, also extra terrestrials the 1st sign of intelligent life beyond earth. now doctor low before the break, you mention the push back that you are getting from your fellow colleagues and it reminds me of all those discussions about the existence of god which cannot be proven and which cannot be disproved. that's why it's a question of faith and not of science, but this case is actually indifferent because those things can be observed. they

can be analyzed, they simply don't, they are a current framework. and speaking about this framework, how good are we at this point at making the distinction between technological inventions and naturally occurring phenomena, especially as such, huge cosmic distances? well, as i mentioned, it should be straightforward. if we can get the photograph of an interest that our object that approaches us the close up photograph, we definitely tell us the difference between iraq and technological equipment. if we always say it must be rocks and we never take that photograph. we resemble a caveman that is used to playing with rocks and when presented with a cell phone. the caveman will declare that the cell phone is just the shiny rock because that fits the experience of the cave. however,

i do think that we are sufficiently advance right now in the 21st century to recognize the difference between equipment and iraq and. and moreover, there is this potential of finding technology that is representing our future. just imagine that we get the piece of equipment that is far more sophisticated, the big technologies we currently possess and bring, bring it to earth. it could carry a huge financial benefit there to anyone that develops it. well, that could be pretty dangerous to now, if they, whoever they are, have these amazing technology to reach us and haven't made a decision to introduce themselves so far. what does it tell you about who they are? right, so during the pandemic i came up with a fed. ready social distancing at the cosmic scale. basically you can imagine and a bunch of like vision that decided not to get in contact with lesser civilizations

because that would be great. it's quality of life. and that doesn't mean that we cannot learn about them because they must be supposed some trash into space. and just like investigative journalists of go through the trash cans of celebrities in hollywood, we can figure out their lifestyle from the trash they throw into space. now, there is the fermi paradox that asks where he is, everybody you know 70 years ago and reconfirming to mistress. this was wondering if there are technological evaluations out there. why don't we see them and what most likely they have a short lifespan, is that they can go civilization because of self inflicted wounds. they don't last for more than a few centuries. that's a reasonable assumption, or they don't care about us. you know, we are not particularly interesting for them and we as the civilization, do not mr. early look very impressive from the outside. we are not particularly

intelligent. if you read the morning, lose waste a lot of resources on fighting each other, trying to feel superior relative to each other. that's not the sign of creation doctor. if you compare us to and suggested that we may be as interesting to them as are too many of us. but i have to point out that there are many people among us who take great interest in, in fact, in fact, many great thinkers, practice ology. charles darwin was one of them, and the time to go and recently has confirmed and numerous and regular sightings of what they call an identified area phenomena. i wonder what do you make of it? can we add an interesting as we may seem to you, do you fully exclude a possibility by sparking some interest in higher civilizations?

no, i don't exclude that. then i do think that everybody should guide us rather than prejudice . there is a tendency, arguing about the subject rather than paying attention to evidence. now, the pentagon report will release some data, but it will not release all the data that it has. and, and i think the bottom line is that there are some objects whose nature is not fully understood. been that the real and my take on it is that we should then follow on these reports with the same experiment. basically deploy the best cameras that we have on whitefield telescopes, that monitor the sky in the same locations and collect open data and clear up the full, you know, the purpose of science is not the to stand to decide the suspect they are, but rather clarified and the answer to questions the cares about,

and here is one of them. there are 3 possibilities. either these objects are naturally produced by nature, or they are terrestrial, produced by humans, or there are extra terrestrial. and we could find the answer by getting more data on such objects, sciences about reproducibility of reserves. so we should just do an experiment scientifically with open data, reproduce the finding, if possible, and get a better assessment as to the nature of these objects. let me ask you about this 2nd opportunity, possibility of objects being off by terrestrial origin. from what i understand, i mean there have been some leaks from that highly anticipated pants are going report the irregular side things. all those cinnamon that have been recorded since the mid 19 fifties and they primarily happen around the military or

technological facilities. as the physicists by training, what do you think the probabilities of other countries be russia, china, or have somebody else inventing technology that would be on and then defiant to the americans at that point of time, back in the, in the fifty's and on the words well, i think it's unlikely because we have a very good assessment before the humans are capable for the limit. so far, technologies are quite well known. and you know, if, if these phenomena, if these objects would behave slightly better than state of the art, the american technology, i would say that's quite likely and possible. but if they behave in ways that far supersedes american technology, you would find the signatures of those technologies in other place. as for example,

the commercial market because they would offer a great commercial financial benefits to those who possess them, you would find them in the battlefields. the location of these reports presumably originates from the fact that that's where our most patrolling our cities and monitoring game by military personnel near these bases. and the question is whether it's a phenomenon that he's more global or cursing other geographical locations. and that's why i'm saying we should have open data. this guy is not classified. there is no ban on looking at the sky, right? so we can have a st. difficult experiment, not to leave it to the, to be the job of government to figure out the nature of these objects. but rather, scientists, and this will clear up the fog and i think we'd give more credence to evidence base

knowledge, which is the foundation of science. but they're doing that without government would also be quite difficult. first of all, because much of that information is classified and 2nd, as you rode before it would require a major investment to look for evidence of the story. now, if you think about it, and if we consider how much we spend on the weapons, for example, diverting even a chance of it to space exploration, he'd be enough. and it may actually discrete and decrease the necessity of funding so much and weapons because i would suppose nothing underscore is our common humanity more than searching for our cosmic neighbors. what do you think? right, so 1st i would like to refer to this question in the context of science. you know, we're searching for the nature of dark matter in the universe. we don't know what most of the methods universe is made off. it contains 5 times more mass per unit volume than all the our method then that we are made off. and we

don't know what it is. and we've been investing hundreds of millions of dollars trying to figure out the nature of dark matter looking for different types of particles. and my point is, the nature of dark matter. we have a little impact on the daily lives of people. if we do find evidence for neighbors that are smarter than we are, if we realize that we are not the smartest kid on the block, that will have huge impact on society. it will change our perspective about our lives. our place in the universe are aspirations for space and then therefore we should invest at least as much as we do in the search for dark matter, or the search for reputation on wave sources. other things that are at the frontier of science right now and not pushing to the sidelines because then it's a self fulfilling prophecy. if you're not searching for wonderful things, you will never discover them right now. the funding for the search for technology because signatures of other civilizations is more than

a 1000 times smaller than the funding in other frontiers of science. and that should not be the case. it should be part of the mainstream, so that's in the context of science. and then you can also bring it to the context of unidentified flying objects. as part of that, the conversation. this is the subject of interest, the public. let's clear up las collect scientific data that is open to everyone that is not a matter of national security is not around necessarily just and military facilities, and it's a subject that can be examined scientifically. you mentioned the moment ago that i didn't have a discovery like this would have a major impact on human society, but aren't you concerned? it could also be utilized in a way to increase our capacity to harm or kill each other as has often happened in the history of technology may be safer and not to look that way. well, that's

a very good question and i'm an optimist. i do believe in the good part of human nature and i, i am hopeful that them we will cooperate. that's the result of realizing that we are not alone rather than society getting into an turmoil and kill that's my hope that we will all realize that we are members of the same team, the human species, and there are others out there. and then it doesn't make sense for us to fight each other, to engage in that rivalry among nations to try and feel superior relative to other people. all of this is nonsense, given the big picture. and then i would hope that the realizing that we are not alone, we give us kick in the right direction. and you know, when my daughters were young, they were at home and they tended to think that they're at the center of the world

. and that the, the smartest, but when we brought them to the kindergarten, they got a better perspective. and of course, they would have preferred to stay at home and maintain the illusion of this model. but if we do realize that there are smarter beings out there, we could learn from them. we could also learn from their mistakes, if they do not preserve the climate on the planet and as a result be perished. then we can do better and avoid a similar fate. well, this is a fascinating subject love. thank you very much for being with us today. all the best with your future endeavors. thank you so much for husband and thank you for watching hope to hear again next week on a world apart from me in the

ah. but it was sanction, rarely, rarely work except maybe a week, maybe a month. but the world always figures a way to get around the site, whether it's whatever it is that was sanctioned, don't work. politicians, you get publicity, and they say, see, i am saving the world. they're saving themselves and they're making friends, which as a korea professional sport is much tougher on some than others. year old. my by everybody. so why would somebody believe me, i was just a little girl. the price paid to, to, to achieve really was,

was to read in the paper this morning, usa swimming coach, arrested, allegedly had sex with a 12 year old girl. this happens almost every week. we get calls at the office. i get informed about one of my greatest fears is someone's going to start linking all this together. there's going to be a 60 minute documentary about youth coaches in sports like gymnastics swimming. is that documentary? see it on r t the ah,

me the look at the get used to the attacks from different directions. the attacks over various matters, very sorts and degrees of gravity. and i'm not stunned by all that. let me approach and speaks to americans nbc network ahead of his job by next week. we'll also to come jillian sanchez and family calls on the u. s. government to drop the case against him as they travel across america to raise awareness but with the company. so desperate to extradite the whistleblower, the support is believe washington is trying to send a warning to others he is being.