g 7 conference, the nail in the coffin, neoliberalism with no china russia. presidents in coldwell that ahead of wednesdays . putin. by the summit in geneva, we investigated china sees the future of mankind and where the western democracy is amiss. all the more coming up in today's edition of going underground 1st over the weekend, the circle g 7 countries including the u. s. and you came in cornwall for its annual summit that some of accused of repelling and anti russia, and the china agenda west and relations with one of the world's largest economies. china of argument, we shall know. point, particularly in the wake of accusations over a lot of bleak and we get genocide. nevertheless, communist china is the only major economy that hit record economic growth in the 1st quarter of this year. amidst the current pandemic. joining me now for a special show from shanghai, venture capitalist and political scientist. eric lee, thanks so much eric for coming on. the g stands for a group, but i don't know whether you think it could stand for globalization. you said before that globalized door globalism,

injected globalization is dead, has been dead for a while. was the g 7? basically another funeral? thank you for having the i will call the funeral. it it's, it's a small party. listen, i grew up my high school. i went to big high school, 300 kids just in my class alone. if you wanna have a party with just famine people, you can do that. okay. but i tell you these, these guys didn't go very far in life. maybe go a far life because they wanted to nationalist enough. well no, they were 2 exclusive to too much into themselves and they thought they were hot. they were bullies and they could run the world. the was much larger than that. and you've said that you can trace the current society

as, as configured in western europe to, to new liberal reforms after the fall of the berlin wall. you see what the swedes of the world has basically failed. they failed western europe is failed. the 28th crash. i think you said that china failed to understand quite cataclysmic. the so called western economic crisis was that we're still living with today despite the impact of the panoramic. well, i think it all transpired at the end of the cold war and as we all know, america and west one, the war are somewhat a lot cold war. but since then, i think western society has gone on and a larger cope who say within their own country,

they thought they got the magic formula, which is global, or liberalism, taking around the world liberal market economics. electro democracy, all these things they think is what made them succeed. and they're going to universalize it and push it to the extreme in their own countries. and that led to the neo liberal doctrine, both economically and politically and socially, if you will. and i think i have run the ground in the past 10 years. they've gone too far and left to great unraveling of their own societies. and a large number of vast majority of the countries that adopted those values. and those systems are not succeeding. developing countries amongst developing countries, post cold war china is the only major country that had really prosper and delivered

for a large number of people. delivered to them a better life in the world. and the analysis that you'll see in the west for that is because it abandon socialism. i understand you've said actually the years between 949 and 979 of state socialism were the fundamentals upon which the chinese 21st century was built. this is being evolution from the time of the creation of the people's republic. well, yeah, i had said that and i think you know, people miss and miss. since through the history of modern china, they tend to divide it into the 1st 30 years and their mouth to about late shopping market reform, which china to what it is today. but i've always said that without the 1st year,

the 2nd that the market with mom would not have been in the 1st 30 years. obviously we had a lot of problems and a lot of mistake. but it was in the 1st 30 years. we go live expectancy in 1949 valley about 40. i think it was 41. you and i live out live life expectancy, and 949. when people look mounted to already in the late sixty's in the late 1967, i think literacy rate went from negligible to over 80 percent among young people. in emily, 970 industrial base was built in the 1st 30 years, and more importantly, national independence china acquired by wow, nobody could invade it. and that allowed it to pursue its own after the 1st 30 years that the people at the public. so thank shopping the warms were successful in

many ways because the foundation was late in the 1st 30 years and profound you've argued has been the relationship between political power and capital. you claim that will these g 7 leaders capital exerts disproportionate influence over politics here in britain, in nature of countries. whereas in china, capitalists just don't have that power. well, i'm a capitalist. i got no power in the medical power anyway. so be, i think, what has gone astray in the where in america and maybe in europe and who is after the cold war, they've gone on the new liberal path where the capital has the interest and capital risen above the interests of the nation state. so capital began to pay

politics and they looked after their interest. so that's how you see the wealth capital in society and solidified authentication in america and western side. and indeed, equality has exploded their food banks down the street for me here, remind us what is the precise difference between capitalism in nato, the liberal country and capitalism. in china, we don't have capitalism. we have a marketing economy, we do have a capital and we have people like me will manage yourself a whole capitalism to me, means a market economy that you managed in a way that it generate efficient times the allocating, the thought efficiently. ok, capitalism to meaning, somehow capital, the interest of capital rise above the interest of the society of the whole and

they capture the cost for the benefit and that we don't want in this country. you often extol the virtues of merit socratic, communist party congress. the definition, philosophically of meritocracy, easy and equality. do you don't see the dangers of the increase in the inequality in china? not just because of how successful in terms of market the economics china has become because of the system itself based on meritocracy. well, i've always said that china is in, has american credit governance, but i never called a america. i think there's an important distinction there. governments being able people can raise, can rise through the ranks and become decision makers. and what matter,

govern me. so you want capable people or test it through the years and just like a good company, you will have people that are capable, your hire them at the bottom and they move, they food, their track record, and you give them or responsibility. and how, that's what you know, what, how government should work and you see the future enjoying that in terms of combat to equality, a return to some of the more socialist marxist principles that have arguably been lost. well, yes i, in the past we've seen a great transformation of china lap 9 to 10 years. the, i think the paradigm shift occurred in 2012 with the 18 party congress. and china had shifted from the 30 or 40 years prior to that, which was the headlong pursuit of economic growth at whatever the cost actually

and that were shifting away from that and towards what caught more balance well, balance development, which really means a common prosperity and more equitable society, so there were a lot of side effects of market economics that we had for food for decade. any quality is one of them. environmental degradation, it's another, an odd and corruption was another. so all these issues needs to be addressed. and i think there's been a, a great transformation where the chinese society in china self perception and the national aspiration of the chinese people in my generation, especially among young people in my generation. we were primarily concerned about china being poor and lacking about if you ask younger generation also born post 994-2000 other 34 in your married on,

by the way there of course they want economic opportunities, but their primary concerns are about any quality and sustaining, but sustainability for the future. so if you're a viewer in a nato country watching this interview, you're going to be thinking, hang on a minute. china is responsible for genocide every other day. we hear about this and genocide in jan jen. and arguably, arguably a connected to try and is lack of interventionism given it's afghan has done the chinese officials now talk about and you have no free press and you're not allowed to. the chinese people is 400000000 young people. they're not allowed to understand the history of civilizations from all different points of view. what sort of society is that? well, if that's what they want to believe, they can believe. if that's true,

china is going nowhere. if that's true, china would never have achieved that. that has already a t f. you know, the young chinese view jordan knowledgeable about the world and that's the back here. we have post 92000 generations extremely long, long about wikipedia is that great? but anyway, compete is banned in china. yeah. but, well, basically you'll get cnn. let me, let me give you one exam. ok. i'm so sorry. sorry. yeah, that's, yeah. but listen. i think that the year before 2019 alone, about a 120 a 130000000 chinese people went abroad and came back. okay. was the largest tar outbound part of the country in the world by far so. so to say that

somehow chinese people don't know about what's going on in the world. i think they're battling mistake. eric, i'll still be there more from the leading chinese venture capitalist and political scientists after this break. as well as sanction, rarely work rarely work except maybe a week, maybe a month. but the world always figures a way to get around the same whether it's the black, whatever it is that was anxious, don't work. politicians get publicity and they say see, i am saving the world, saving themselves and they're making friends which back guys or finance or survival. when customers go buy, you reduce the price. now, well, reduce a lower undercutting, but what's good to food market is not good for the global economy. these

are the 4 people who pulled the trigger, survive something on survival. one of the hardest things that i had, the face was not having a face at a low patient that accepted the accept the fact that i made that appointment. we had no fears. del change pretty fast for shots. different stories behind the bullets. the welcome back out to show with venture capitalists and political side as eric lee. you said that europe, europe and project is basically finished. obviously a lot of people in britain agree with you because they voted for breakfast and the largest democratic vote in history. in this country, do you see the response to china's rise in terms of sanctions, in terms of what many suddenly chinese officials believe is propaganda in the

western media. these are the only responses left for brussels and stroudsburg. well, i wouldn't be so kind of the mistake about europe and about china. i think your project finishes, certainly in some trouble. i think it's in trouble because probably because it's taken on a overly geological interaction for some time. and i think the corrections are needed and i'm, i'm optimistic about the future of europe and for the correct itself. and we know that, but in terms the relationships between europe and china and, and the western china, we're talk my g 7 meeting late in the year. i was just looking at the numbers of the 7 countries, the largest 3, the largest economy of us, japan in germany. guess who is their largest trading partner. all 3 china

in the u. k. china, biggest info market. there's 200000 chinese students studying u. k. u. n. of our cities, right? paying 1700000000 pounds a year in tuition. it's probably the largest thought the foreign revenue in your opinion of our states. so there extraordinary interconnectivity between china and all the european countries. very there is the electricity in china, just replace, as you say, germany as britain's big sample market. but you know about the sanctions. what the businessman think, watching this program, knowing the 3rd party sanctions, china is now saying they're going to retaliate against us. that trump here, a sanctions that have been continued through to biden. what is a business when supposed to think, despite all the big figures of huge india connectivity about the future?

this is, this is unstable. how can i make sure that the governments here in europe and going to sanction me for some element in the supply chain? well, it's unfortunate and i think it's delta v, like i said, china is the largest trading power in the world today, and it's the largest trading nation in the history of the world. so if, if the country is one of a and i fully china, they're going to be isolating. but i mean, china is built in to the economic world can exist. and i know that it's been reducing the amount of bonds us bond between buying us debt pennies, increasing its now $9000000.00 up $1.00 trillion dollars of us debt. and why, why is china so interested in, in optimism for the american dream. as we've seen, the recent instability in the united states,

i'm not sure optimism is the right way to describe the national relationship. china, obviously the largest matter why by the dead happens because the economic way to chime and of the trading relationship equation has to balance. well, mentally, if i mean, i'm not a economist, economist, i believe they will tell you that the us is consuming too much and making and savings and that, that's why it's invalid. you know, one way out of the reliance on the federal reserve, which obviously that is in linked to and lots of talk even in nature, countries about the mass printing of money here in britain, the bag of england and the federal reserve is crypto currency. was china clamping down so hard on crypto currency? mine is that would make countries all over the world in the developing world,

independent of a federal reserve, which arguably operates for us interests. well, i'm not an expert currency, but the, what i'm read is there are 2 issues. one is extraordinary energy come to mind calling us. so i think that's one of them. they are trying to control that. and the 2nd reason, obviously it's a currency that poly regulated at the moment. so they're probably out of potential for financial. i mean the us federal reserve i think are cracking down on credit. oh, currently in the future, i think currently does have a role. i think countries that cooperate and work work together to, to, to, to develop the rules of the road. but i think very early stage. yeah, i mean the,

those who are full of their current c as in development actually is that they should be which is different from the other current. that means i think china is at the bottom of that. and already the united states is looking into that too. but i mean, when you talk about regulation, that would be the united states regulator, regulating the dollar. china prefer that. no, i think china would be regulating its own arm b. i mean, fundamentally what is, what, what are the big differences and perhaps reforms that nato countries fulfilled suffering . the legacy of the 20 way crisis could learn from china or the history is just to, to different. i mean, britain, have the civil service. people say vaccination program here in britain benefited from the creation of the national health service in the, in the post war period. are there other lessons that western european countries can

learn from china recovering from the impacts of new liberal policies? i think the western countries are really trying to develop ways to keep china down. they need to reform what the west america and europe need reforms badly. they need to reform their systems to make them work better, less politics, less ology and more. delivering practical, good. and practical benefits for their people. that's what governments tell their people all the time in the nato countries. that's exactly what they were trying to to. and in fact, you know, what was a big issue, i think with western country is that somehow they have convinced themselves that there's only 11 with democracy as call liberal democracy. and

they've made this length of liberalism and democracy. only liberal society can give them a crack. and i think that's false. there could be other forms of democratic governance . i mean, i, for one thing, china is very democratic and it's not liberal. democratic. western countries tend to believe that somehow you have the liberal democratic and in fact, i think liberalism has left to a lack of democracy in western countries as may, the west, less democrat. so i think that's something that we ought to consider in western countries as well. and yet, the peoples of europe, the vast majority of them, are sure they are the ones living in the democratic societies. and you are not i, i think, you know, the west tends to measure of democracy, my procedure and whatnot. for liberalism,

it's about procedures. so if you follow these procedures correctly or follow the thing correctly, you are by the condition nation democratic. even if you're starting to bet your democratic, i think, well the chinese at least for me, i think democracy ought to be measured by outcome by resolve. so if you're delivering a better life for a large number of people, vast majority on people. of course, you're democratic if you're not delivering how, how democratic are you. i mean, some may be asking, as we hear the rules based international order being recited here by up all additions, all the time. that the nature is losing patience with china. morris johnson has sent the biggest warship in the royal navy towards china's maritime borders. china is allowed 400 bases in circle your country. and obviously companies is

a big companies who are way obviously banned from the 5 g infrastructure of this country. it is if it's, if the torque is being ratcheted up or multiply and the communist party of china is trying its best talking a bit more the wolf diplomacy. i don't know whether she brings against him now. the wolf was busy, but it's as if it doesn't realize how in circles and how isolated it is in the world despite all the interconnectivity isolated militarily under siege. i think that's an unfortunate development. i think it's contrary to what we know are the facts on the ground and what we know from history. so i've always said that china, you know, 2030 years ago, china, chad, the chinese before this idea comp,

people right now they want it to rise. people and at the time a lot of people thought that you know that i was not credible and nobody believed it. but looking back, i think people rise has already happened. we went from a for a growing country to the great industrial power house that china is today in merely 2 generations, 2nd largest economy and the largest economy by purchasing how parity. yes, china has invaded a single country, not a single shot, fired and unprecedented in human history. if you reveal survey history, the rise of every great power on the higher roman empire from the british empire to america manifest destiny to the rise of modern japan.

modern germany, almost all of them actually, all of them were accompanied by great flesh at colonization of entire continents killing off slaves. months of entire population invaders wars and china right had been faster and bigger than them all. but so far, not a shop had been inspired and that's a great accomplishment. and instead of celebrating this accomplishment encouraging for the development, we have these hostilities that developing a my western powers and i think process an unfortunate and disappointed. many people in the global south recognize the chinese achievements. i know the, the programs in latin america and in africa inside these to asia. here in britain,

you probably know about media censorship. we have julian sand being tortured up the road here in belmont prison. according to the un, china's network c g, g n defacto band here by regulate just how can china get this message out to the world that it comes in? peace if every time any official, medium tries to speak it's suppressed. and journalism, arguably in nato countries is well, some people accused of being captured by the military industrial complex. well, i tell you, i don't have any idea how to get the message across, but it will be and west. the media don't want to portray china that's truthful to their own people. that's their loss. and they are doing service to their own people . and then losing credibility. i'm on 1400000000 chinese people as well. and i

think, you know, it's on now. eric lee, thank you. and that's for the show what we'd like a wednesday when i remember jan needs with joe by mid geneva until then he done to my social media and tell us of using major nation media reporting on china. it's rather driven by dreams shaped by person of those in me, i think we dare to ask me one of

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being lost. the the news the 1st us rushes summit of the vital administration looming then the us president calls posted an autocrat pop setting the tone flat upcoming face to face the celebration in israel mixes with doubts to about the durability of the country's new coalition government, which ended prettyman netanyahu's 12 year rule joe biden promise his half a 1000000 doses of covert jobs for poor nations, but it seems not for everyone. we look at how washington, suppose i left behind.