england got something them of right, but the scottish team was led by andrew watson. so there was this guy start was left, but i'm captain andrew watson. andrew watson was the 1st man of color to play international football. so i'm grown up, messed and got a football. i know a bit the wembley wisdoms, i know, but the next 260 stuff in game and scotland guys thing land, hyphen of i have the scottish captain. the lady said to $61.00 flashing of england . partly because the speed at which the game develop and partly because it was considered entertainment and no one really kept good records or kept histories or did any kind of research or analysis on football. and a nice this generation under watson generation and the generation that followed him . there are the forgotten generation of football. but they're the ones that,

that found in the game as we know today. and you have written a book about under watson. tell us, tell me about the title 1st. explain the title to me. yeah, andrew watson are struggling life. it's a phrase that was used by journalists to describe andrew when he left for social to play football, a scottish journalist. and it was the inspiration behind me wanting to research and further because none of that was no. there was no information about his human, the human side of his every life of his family or anything. and i started to look and yeah, he did leave the straggling life. he did, i influential was what happened here in march, 1881. and i knew watson's career in england to the development of the game and to national watson in this game. $61.00, and then the following year, the $51.00. what from with part of a scottish team that force the english to change the way they played to consider

the future. he came down, he played with corinthians, he told the scottish going to the corinthians, the most current things he played alongside with him about playing for the national thing. and then of course, the queen who's became one of the probably the directors and what to think of all time. they came around the world and took it to america. they took it to south africa, it took it to brazil, introduced to brazil. the queen seems carinthian palace, there is a remnant of visits what some was part of a team that changed the way for all the flight globally. fioma dykey. amazing scotland korea, 100. $23.00 cops a 15 year period. your captain scum just 150 years after andrew watson became the 1st black international footballer and lead has scotland said way back in 18. $81.00 to a memorable sex one triumphal. but england. the oval. what do you think about

story of under watson and the efforts of know being made to, to bring that figure back to the the same trial at the scottish football. like for me, like i had no idea but growing up in scotland from my 3 years old playing for the scotland theme for 15 years, been handling things of that. and i can't even say that i even knew the story. it's like one that came before you know, and their story is important to canada over. and that went over my head and not only brought to my attention. and i think that's incredible. and the fact that 100 years ago, but they're only finally talking about that. no, it's all mostly been in the, in the dark for wait too long. so i'm glad know that, you know, like more attention paid to it because it was a huge achievement and we want to continue that go and continue to talk nicely. you know, recognizing that historic achievement now exactly 100 years after under watson became the world's 1st. i've a black professional football, assigning for the master team,

a beautiful young man called john barton st. liverpool football club. john, welcome to the alex simon show. thank you very much for the pleasure under what do we have to vote this, this figure, this extraordinary story of a black captain of scotland ladies team to sex, one flashing of england that was lost from the annals of football history. why do you think that is i obviously, once on york, come on the show. i do some research on it. i didn't know about scotlands 61 section of england. and all englishmen do. but to know that there was a blackman based on the time, of course not. why was loss of the annals of history was because of course, a lot of people you can go back to, to someone, for example, like totally connie, who was the 1st manager, black manager for rochdale. we want to lead cut that no one knows about. we assume that black, starting with the band isn't on black matters, just started with in the eighty's or ninety's whenever the 1st black manager came along. so of course, we don't know much about the historical aspect of so many black figures in history,

and that was very interesting to really delve into under watson. and the 18 eighty's was secretary of queens park, then the club in the world. he was the 1st black football administrator. so what does that tell us about the lack of progress in 150 years? it's before as tony collins, the 1st black manager in england who managed ross dale not a big club for 6 years. and one of the lead up, but he wasn't particularly successful rossville. however, apart from the leecock, however, you stated a job 7 years. so that tells you that although you're black and you are not necessarily being successful but they, they judge you based on your ability. because can paradoxically, when there weren't that many black people racism was less, the more black people that you have in any country. there is more racism because there's only a certain amount of elite people. and if you have more people who want a slice of the pie to get into these positions, that it then becomes a threat to the status quo. so why do you have one or 2 black people the right to

them? not to be great because they're there, they don't call up for the state of school cuz there's one or 2 of them when they're hung up and they pose a threat. so therefore, a narrative has to be then, when spoken about about the, the groups potential groups worth. there was no discussion about andrew watson's potential because they have to be c or 20 college protection because that doesn't pose a threat to the existence. they just school that we don't upset paradoxically, there's much more racism in countries where they're, they're more black people rather the less one man familiar with extraordinary story around you. watson and who himself experienced later on. but theresa, the dis from so cause fits all funds from the late 1980 s. as former england and ranges were not smart quarters. how does he feel all these years later about the control this year about the england team taking beneath walters of rame just football club and england. mark when you came as one of the, the 1st prominent black players to,

to start in modern scott football. you kind of the most to vet this graceful racism on field. i'm interested makes you feel 30 years later, but the controversy, angling team taking the need and booed by some of the funds. what do you, what's your reaction to that situation all these years later? it is very disappointing to think that there is still a lot of problems with threat. you guys, you said over racism, don't get me wrong. i do believe the need to come. i would become slightly symbolic . and although it's not a bad thing, because people have seen that some people are trying to do something, you know, to be able to support if you like. and you know that some, a little, a little more action. let's talk and more conversation in the way that one is in. yes, we spoke about a lot and i need to do some things about it as it works. so it's fantastic, that's not only your teammates,

but your opponents are being empathetic with your situation. and so for, i think now it's time to maybe do a bit more action if you'd like to do things, make sure it doesn't keep going in for many years. my wife has recently you the documents on this, the story of andrew watson, this remarkable story of the 1st black, international football cop to the scotland ladies team to the ovo, from tangling facts one. and yet, until your documentary, other programs recently looked it over the phone. how can not possibly be yeah, i totally agree. not necessarily a story in or stuck efficient or, but i thought, you know, wrote to told, i think actually science ranges unfortunately died during the 1st walk to the and actually played. and then you had players like clyde best played in the 60s. obviously to reduce low putting them,

been invested in the 70s. but when i was told that play a trade only at all and years ago. but it wasn't just an ordinary play that he was actually will class by definition he played in the best lead at the time he was catching up. scotland, which in itself is a remarkable because, you know, to catch him don't necessarily be the best player. but captain, obviously it didn't take the product team and probably the normally the 1st player, the manager picks, so as an important player to so just think that i'd never heard of this. my, you played over to get before me in scarlet, was actually on black. martha at fast, we can tell from the record. so the thing to be very little something but can park little of that race, this prejudice against under watson in the 18 eighty's? how could we have a situation where that was the date is but the 1980s were subjected to the most

disgraceful. yvette pronounced teresa's behavior from so called football funds. i think maybe it was a bit more cosmopolitan in these days in go. i believe that not only was the great plan, but he wasn't the only black player in that squad, and some players play before him and obviously some accident as well. so maybe that was a reason why he wasn't as, as pronounced. erase him as it was when i played up there. yeah. i've got a feeling f would give him a man his proper you in scotland. this will be a giant statue of acted to, to our new or say, the st. honda and pop, you know, recognizing the place for scotland fleet results for sex 151 against thing with a 5 what i guess will ever be not so massive recognition. do you think that would have influenced the fans and made them better human beings to understand that

scotland had the fuss black international captain? and he said he knows his life story. the fact that he come from, which is guy on the fact that he was his mother, was a free slave and the father for the slave owner. and that came to scotland and done all the things the bid. i think definitely did. i did that as a more respect, but only he story, but a lot of pleasure paid after him. so he was a phenomenal human being and destiny someone i had my marya join us after the break. when alex continues this discussion with form, england, i'm green, just bring mine. mike, will see that the

what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even for taishan, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. development only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very political time. time to sit down and talk. always be polite, never engage with an aggravated or confrontational office. don't get into any conversation to start answering questions. just ask for an attorney to survive and interrogation, you've gotta be ready to stand your ground. definitely don't want to be going to trial in the jump suit. one cups. you're more likely to walk free. if you're rich and guilty, you are. if you're poor and you got 2 eyes and 2 ears and one mouth.

so you should be seen in here and a whole lot more than you're saying. if you don't take that advice, usually going to date yourself a whole ah, phoenix has actually got an uncovered face, men's clothing and shoulder holster. it's a kind of afghan feminism. it's name is. i boxed it up, put a human, some of the whole lot of us, it was a lot of up on the job, but you don't want me. she lives in one of the most dangerous and patriarchal provinces of afghanistan, cost when she was time,

i miss that. sure. no, i shall do that. yes, that updated literature. i'm glad you got me knows that she does her best to fight for women's rights. i am not able to get that done as you know what i do know that she's known him by her nickname. king was i got to reco much other. that was really good news . welcome back to england. feels the team that wembley stadium, that couldn't be the underdog spot and turn into the modern wembley. what are i reference to another? i'm fine. she's got your site who dazzled the wembley in 1920 alex is in

conversation with england. wearing our mark quoted walters. if you've got a unique perspective with england, scotland clash because in england play. but you start for great deals in the 980 natalie 90 scotlands dominant football club. well perspective javan tomatoes game to england are going to steam. roll a little scotland, scott, his team of a few surprises because it is part of the game it is. there's nothing on you to say i'm going to walk over scotland. i mean, i was a bit surprised at the way scotland start today, game against check his record. i believe that was very gung ho, very cavalier and the game was very open. and unfortunately, scott couldn't take the chances. consequently, at losing the 1st goal, which is always in pull in those type of games. so, games for england, i honestly believe the 1st goal again is gonna be what a difference now is. england don't need to win the game. england can be quite happy

with a jewel where scotland need to get somebody out of this game. if they don't win this game, scotland is going to be virtually impossible to get out of the group. so that in itself tactically, it's going to be very important that england use a game properly and use it and understand maybe the break as a tactic. and i'm obviously gotten enough to make more chances and maybe go go for it in a later stage of game. but he's going to be frustrating game. and i'm really looking forward to watching it. it's up us and go to scotland, confrontation, but lake arrange a celtic one. even if one side should be dominant as england should be tomorrow and on all known farm. it doesn't quite work like that because of the ancient rivalry because it's very much a doubt, be atmosphere of plus and that's very true. yeah, i totally agree. it's, it is that you feel like i mean most of the players in scotland and know most places in england,

tame and vice versa. so that itself is going to be different. so most international games, but the fact that there's going to be a crowd there as well. that should add a bit spice to the game. i mean, obviously the english crowd. i haven't had many games to watch, never mind over the last few months. so although i don't seem to be a full house, it will seem like a full last because he was a pause will be right behind a team. and being such a young, young english slide, this would be interesting english with, obviously, you know, home that should give england the, the advantage i think when you put for reagan, jose was all the stuff a unique situation because the english clubs were excluded from europe. and a number of other very prominent english and nationalists decided to, to play for rain just probably to get you to be in football as one of your reasons . so you must, you know, bump settings with the team dressing room. i brought by here we did have a quite

a few in the sled plain in the in a team. actually it's funny because we use it on a friday especially research team. oh and yeah, because there's so many foreigners, full stop. you should just have an actual team, scotland team and private side. so we have a lot of fun with that. and that was great. he's a great time to be guys go and he's got a great time. and i love us live in an ada for bud. well, how much and i believe so. yeah, it was great to be part of troubling the sledge definitely to meet the everywhere. when the games are going to was a bit dangerous. having training games, i know they gave scotland the tackles know about robust for trading, tackles on the lease. it was and then and the manager wanted to be friday. i don't think the way to transition, which was a quiet anyway and graham soon as it was a manager at a time, even bradley was in the thick of things smashing people as well. so that's how we played. we try to play bases. so yes, really,

it was interesting weeks about what to do, what things fossil just the prospects of these 2 teams to mod? i mean, i'm in england according to how to came better than they were in the world cup, bobby, and i'll be on the vamps of greatness. this anyone said, what do you think? what i hope so it's been a long time since i think the end of one anything. cuz you know, this seems to be a bad time rotary in the scene and we're the last time. but to me, it's all joy, if you can avoid the big piece of image image competition. frances, germany's and even ports really old. is that a moment then it can be can be a good time for england, but it won't be easy. and people like erica enough to stay fifties, generally in the, in the palace, not at the school, most of the goals. so i agree in a way come right anyway, definitely seems to be in a better place. but only time will tell with the results. i mean,

obviously great start to the competition. you need to when you 1st came in my opinion, if you go really going to progress england, have done that. so the pressure is off a little bit. but obviously things can change quickly, need to be gotten in on friday, and then things can be a little bit easier. and finally, not while you're waiting at the coaching of your phone message, when you have to the young girls and boys are young, black girls and boys looking for the future of the game. but what would, what would be your messages of the stablish style in terms of how they should conduct themselves looking for. oh it's, it's a wonderful, wonderful game to be involved when it's a vehicle to cross all kinds of barriers. it's life for me. i would, you know, it was the best part of my young life was playing football, you know, to get paid to do something. it was actually a dream. but even if you're not getting paid just which i didn't at the end of my

career, i can assure you just plain and running around was fantastic. and i would definitely definitely advise anybody not only to go to football, but any sport, because that is a great way to only open your life to thing but to, to meet people and to, to make sure that you enjoy your life. because i think it did that. so maybe walters of aston, villa level to england and glasgow rain. just thank you very much indeed. thank you very much memory. thank you. any england scotland mark is about more than sports of england. scotland football show, dine. it's about much more alex face as a prospect on the politics with top scores pundits. jim spent? well jump spend. so let's take a look at li, oldest international fixture association, football, scotland, ve england way back when it started. scotland, well,

the totally dominant site and we've just been hearing about the, the marvelous march, 1881 when under watson, lady steven to us sex, won the rumbling of england. that the oval will you coupling that game jump. i was late so late. we will the dominant, very little be happy to be in the game you're talking about as well. when we bought the, the milan to know that you sold to general brian scott related to scottish scott on the benches more than one on wednesday. and he talks exchange, you know, on the walk in the black, we'll just leave a job and all that you can all 120 years for the next one measure course. did it come along? what we were very much, you know, we were the ones we got the was you general tell you,

but you've been to the game or english. i don't get a whole job deal. nothing gets up and she was watching as you were more pleased to go and not when you're away from queens. far you on the age of one wall, don't to anguish gave untruth to welcome scotch professionals approach as it came to be doing some very much the dominant india gave the invented, invented the game for the 60s. and seventies is a remarkable flow of colonies into the scottish international site when the sex to the gym by dennis law dave mckay and some great players as well. but despite the, we probably will among the best teams in the world with us with famously won the world cup in 1900. $66.00 also the claim. but i can

never seem to limit it to the finals in the seventy's level of progress. how could you explain how they got an overflow of columns and not actually, you know, reaching the final stages of tournaments? well, you know, i was kind of a general. so, you know, you know, we believe the scorching to 6 even into the seventy's. we really, we swallow a job a lot and we didn't like the tool what to do very often because as we jump, clear will be used to see making real world mess box. so law actually jimmy johnson sometimes is get energy. you know, we're not, it would fit into any few, many of us because we don't really that, nor do nearly as well as we should have done, given the way it will be quite easily. could

a clean for any team when you're running with one that will be dodgy hospital going ball, let us know that when we say to people at box and law and he's kind of what you know, it's good and bad than anything. but very often i think we but i know of a law and got the degree to me was great. so now let's bring it back right back to the present moment. when on the eve of the, the big mice german, that the sap is as rising to say the least. we are the custom of a golden generation of young scottish players. and could they upset, overwhelming favorites to model? sure to refund the children to dissolve situation and to work last last box. it also be under

the leash is a huge celtic getting up when you come into a wonderful good don't whole. then of course you will kill shit. ahead or late. no front wheels and the emergency you're really you're more you know they actually just went to chelsea the mentally talented through both on the all the easy got patient talent. and so i friend, usually the endo was being alone on the cross to change something pretty big. and so you know, we got together to get the coaching and change them more than message and i think very much that we got grief. the cage will be on the seat just mentioned. to me will sound good. is there anything, any of the sticker successful football site together with political stuff?

does that make scotland unstoppable jim spans well for sure. going to be every be crucial to go to a successful conclusion to european championships and then march on the independent shop and i just spent thank you so much for joining us for that. the thank you for being with us on the alex. i've been show you all next. the ball is not a matter of life and death. it's more important than not. so said the legend to liverpool, manager, and socialist scott. though shanquita for generations of scores. the hope rather than the reality of beating england, wembley, with more important than anything else more important than life than work. and certainly in politics. it was a very embodiment of nationhood, but were found scotland. now, the nation has this when parliament is what's called culture on its own dynamic.

how scotlands i groaned, these wembley confrontations has not been placed in its proper perspective. probably a hey, but maybe asked me that question again to mortal so friendly from alex myself and all of issue is good bye. stay safe and we'll see you all again next week. ah, me oh, the back guys are financial survival guide. housing bubble. oh, you mean the downside?

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