the ah, [000:00:00;00] me welcome to the alex sounding sure here wembley stadium. many and english foundation has been realized. i'm many a scottish who has been vast and tomato the latest chapter. an older international match and football will be played out and older. cyber rejoined once again. on every rational assessment, england rich reads of why the town should send them victoria, england, where i woke up 75 and listen to signs in 18. and according to the talisman captain

heidi came there even stronger and nice. they had started to consequently seeing or twist goblins, in contrast to the finals of the year determined by virtue of 2 penalties, 2 types, their high hopes of our 1st game. thank you. we're dash 500 high on monday and yet . so we're almost done. school can and the phil well, i'm doing that is a whisper. under dogs may just see the rising site on the cost of a boarding generation of young scottish. how could they finally blossom to think lead by the cats in an inspirational, less back on the robertson. today on the alex, i'm sure we dale into some of the hidden history of the wealth was ancient football rivalry, and speculate what it might just means for the politics of the 2 nations. it is 22 years since scotland be the old enemy to go. and even then, it was the 2nd blake of a playoff. and it was anyone who still qualified way back in the history of the

game. it was this scotland team who are the dominant in 1880 to the home of english, the wembley of the oval. now, one of the homes of english cricket gotten into a conference by another cultured less but i football pioneer, i'm grain breaker and the world's 1st flag international player. alex takes up that remarkable story with football historian mu walker with some help from england writing john bonds. and if you will not be the 1st and thus far, only black women to captain scotland ballou walker over one of the horns of english cricket. but in march, $1881.00, there was a football much played here, and it's a national much. tell me, well, not well. england got something, i'm afraid. but the scottish team was led by andrew watson. so there was this guy start one's laugh, but i'm captain andrew watson. andrew watson was the 1st man of color to play

international football. so i'm going off the mast and scott, a football. i know a bit wembley with us. i know a bit of a to 6 the stuff in game and scott, guys thing and a half of a have a scottish captain who led the site to a 61 flashing of england. partly because the speed of the game develop. and partly because it was considered entertainment, and no one really kept good records or kept histories or did any kind of research or analysis on football. and, and these, this generation under watson generation and the generation that followed him, there are the forgotten generation of football. but they're the ones that found in the games we night to day. and you have written a book, but under watson tell us, tell me about the title 1st. explain the title to me. yeah, andrew watson are struggling life. it's

a phrase that was used by journalists to describe andrew when he left for social play football, scottish journalist. and it was the inspiration behind me wanting to research and further because none of that was no, there was no information about his human. the human side of his ever library of his family or anything. and i started to look and yeah, he did leave the straggling life. he did. i influential was what happened here in march, 1881. and i knew watson's career in england to the development of the game and national or watson in this game, 61. and then the following year, the 51. what from, with part of a scottish team that forth the english f to change the way they play to consider the future. he came down he played with corinthians, he told a bought the scottish going to the corinthians. the most corinthians who played alongside with end up playing for the national thing. and then of course the queen

who's became one of the probably the directors and what to think of all time the craziest game around the world and took it to america. they took it to south africa, it took it to brazil, introduced to brazil. the queen seems carinthian police, there's a remnant visits. what some was part of a team that changed the way for all the side globally. fioma dykey. amazing scotland career, 123 cops. whole that a 13 year period. you captain, just 150 years after andrew watson became the 1st black international footballer and lead has scotland said way back in 18. 81 to a memorable sex. one triumphal england. the oval. what do you think about that story of under watson and the efforts of no being made to bring that figure back to the the same trial at the scottish football light? for me,

i actually had no idea about growing up in scotland from was 3 years old. playing for the scotland team for 15 years, been in the hampton and things of that. and i can't even say that i even knew the story. it's like one that came before you know, their story is important to canada over. and that went over my head and that really brought to my attention and i think nothing credible with the fact that 100 years ago. but we're only finally talking about that. no, it's all mostly been in the, in the dark for way too long. so i'm glad that you know, like more attention paid to it because it was a huge achievement and we want to continue that go and continue to talk. and actually, you know, recognizing that historic achievement now exactly 100 years after under watson became the world's 1st. i've a black professional football assignment for the massey site team, a beautiful young man called john barton st. the liverpool football club. john, welcome to the alex simon. show, thank you very much for the pleasure. under what do we have to figure this extraordinary story of

a black captain of scotland ladies team to sex one flashing of england that was lost from the annals of football history. that is over 3 months on your coming on the show, i do some research on it. i didn't know about scotlands 61 section of england. and all englishmen do. but to know that there was a blackman on the time of course not. why was loss of the annals of history was because of course, a lot of people you can go back to someone, for example, like totally connie, who was the 1st manager, black manager for rochdale. we want to lead cut that no one knows about. we assume that that's going to start with the band isn't on black matters. just started with in the eighty's or ninety's, whatever the 1st black manager came along. so of course, we don't know much about the historical aspect of so many black figures in history . and that was very interesting to really delve into under watson. and the 18 eighty's was secretary of queens park. then the greatest club in the world. he was the 1st black football administrator. so what does that tell us about the lack of

progress in 150 years? it speaks volumes. as tony collins, the 1st black manager in england who managed ross dale not a big club for 60 years and one of the lead up, but he wasn't particularly successful rossville. however, apart from lee car, however you say that a job 7 years. so that tells you that although you're black and you are not necessarily being successful, but they, they judge you based on your ability. because can, paradoxically, when there weren't that many black people racism was less, the more black people that you have in any country. there is more racism because there's only a certain amount of elite people. and if you have more people who want a slice of the pie to get into these positions, that it then becomes a threat to the status quo. so why do you have one or 2 black people the right to them? not to be great because they're there, they don't call up for the state of school cuz there's one or 2 of them when they're hung up and a postal track. so therefore, a narrative has to be then, when spoken about about the,

the groups potential groups worth. there was no discussion about andrew watson's potential because it's there to be see or 20 colleges protection because that doesn't pose a threat to the state school that we don't upset. paradoxically, there's much more racism in countries where they are. they're more black people rather the less one man familiar with extraordinary story of and to watson on who himself experience the latest on the white, theresa the dis from so called fits all finds in the late ninety's as former england and ranges were not my quarters. how does he feel all these years later about the control this year valued? the english teacher, taking beneath walters of rame just football club and england. mark, when you came as one of the, the 1st prominent black players to the starting model scottish football, you encounter the most to vet this graceful racism on field. i'm interested makes you feel 30 years later that those controversy,

angling team taking the need and booed by some of their own funds. what do you, what's your reaction to that situation all these years later? it is very disappointing to think that there is still a lot of problems with rhetoric as you said over racism. don't get me wrong. i do believe the need to come. i would become slightly symbolic. and although it's not a bad thing, because people have seen that some people are trying to do something, you know, to be able to support if you like. and, you know, that's some, a little a little more action. let's talk and more conversation in the way that one is in. yes, we spoke about a lot and i need to do some things about it. so it's fantastic. that's not only your teammates, but your opponents are being empathetic with your situation. and so for, i think now it's time to maybe do a bit more action if you like, and do things that make sure it doesn't keep going in for many years. my walters

recently, you the documentary on this, the story of under watson, this remarkable story of the 1st black, international bullet cop cuz scotland ladies team to the although from tangling facts one and yet until your documentary, other programs recently looked it up or have the phone how can that possibly be? yeah, i totally agree. not necessarily a story and or fishing or, but i thought i knew a little bit about it. so no role to told. i think actually signed for ranges unfortunately died during the 1st we'll walk to the and actually played. and then yet players like clyde best played in the sixty's obviously to reduce putting them been invested in the 70s. but when i was told that play a trade not only on did years ago, but it wasn't just an ordinary play that he was actually in the world class. by

definition, he played in the best league at the time. he was captain of scotland, which in itself is remarkable because we all know to capture don't necessarily be the best player, but captions are obviously taking a product team. and probably the normally the 1st player, the manager picks, so as an important player to so i just think that i've never heard of this. my, you played around you did before me scholar was actually on black. my roster as far as we can tell from the record. so the think been very little something but can park and little yvette races prejudice against under watson in the 18 eighty's . how could we have a situation where that was the date is but the 1980s were subjected to the most disgraceful. yvette pronounced teresa's behavior from so called football fans. i think maybe it was a bit more cosmopolitan in these days in go i believe that not only was the great plan,

but he wasn't the only black player in that squad. and some players play before him . and obviously some ask him as well. so maybe that was a reason why he wasn't as, as pronounced erase him as it was when i played up there. yeah. i've got a fairly f when given the man has proper do in scotland. that's not been a giant statue of acted to, to say the st hummed and pop, you know, recognizing that he played for scotland. fleet items result for sex 15. what against thing with a 5, what against will ever be not so massive recognition. do you think that would have influenced the fans and made them better human beings to understand that scotland had the 1st black international kept? oh, that does anybody know any life story? the fact that he come from, which is guy on the fact that he was his mother, was

a free slave and the father for the slave owner. and that came to scotland and done all the things the bid. i think definitely did. i did that as a more respectful and only he story, but a lot of pleasure paid after him. so he was a phenomenal human being and definitely someone i had my marya join us after the break. when alex continues his discussion with form, england, i'm green, just bring my micro will see that the biggest thing about and we just always dress covered up no simulation, really directly connected to the medical assistance which is 100000 in everybody. and it contains millions of little if you exposure to,

to muscles 1000000 work ah, all. busy geo political game, as it's called some time rest upon the foundation, us dollars primacy, us dollar a world reserve current. now you've got a major brush to the outside of the dollar. that gives them a way to maneuver in a way that no other country can. but all other countries will any late in the end of the ability to maneuver outside the dollar. it's an incredible freedom that they now have nor stream to being completed by passing ukraine. delivering energy directly from russia to germany is just the 1st of many, many, many when the

the news welcome back to england feels the team that wembley stadium. that couldn't be the underdog spot. and turn into the modern wembley, what i reference to another. i'm fine. she's got your site who dazzled the wembley in 1920. alex is in conversation with england wearing our mark quarter my offices. you've got a unique perspective with england scotland clash because you don't england play, but you stopped for glasgow ranges in the 980 natalie 90 scotlands dominant football club space of java. tomatoes game to england are going to steam, roll a little scotland, scott, his team of a few surprises. i think because it is part of the game easy. there's nothing new, no call. going to say i'm going to walk over scotland. i mean, i was a bit surprised at the way scotland start today a game against chuck his record. i believe that was very gung ho,

very cavalier and the game was very open. and unfortunately, scott couldn't take a chances. consequently, at losing the 1st goal, which is always in pull in those type of games. so, games for england, i honestly believe the 1st goal again is gonna be what a difference now is. england don't need to win the game. england can be quite happy with a jewel where scotland need to get somebody out. and if they don't win this game, scotland is going to be virtually impossible to get out of the group. so that in itself tactically, it's going to be very important that england use a game properly and use it and understand maybe found the break as a tactic. and i'm obviously scott enough to make more chances and maybe go go for a left to stage a game, but he's going to be frustrating game. and i'm really looking forward to watching it. it's up us angler, scotland confrontation, but lake rain just celtic one. even if one side should be dominant as england should be tomorrow and on all known farm,

it doesn't quite work like that because of the ancient rivalry because it's very much a doubt. be atmosphere of plus and that's very true. yeah, i totally agree. it's. it is that you feel like i mean, most of the players in scotland and know most places in england, tame and vice versa. so that itself is going to be different most international games. but the fact that there's going to be a crowd there as well. that should be a spice to the game. i mean, obviously the english crowd haven't had many games to watch. never mind over the last few months. so although i don't seem to be a full house, it will seem like a full last because it was a pause. it will be right behind a team. and being such a young, young english slide, this would be interesting english with, obviously, you know, home that should give england the, the advantage i think when you put for reagan jose that was almost a unique situation because the english clubs that excluded from europe and

a number of other very prominent english and nationalists decided to, to play for rain just probably to get you to be in football as one of the reasons. so you must, you know, bunch settings with team dressing room. i broke spite live is not true. here we did have quite a few english lead playing the in a team. actually it's funny because we use it on a friday, especially research team. oh any. and because there's so many foreigners, full stop. you should just have an actual team, scotland team and private side. so we have a lot of fun with that. and that was great. he's a great time to be guys. go, randy, but a great time. and i obviously in an ada for bud. well, how much and i believe so. yeah, it was great to be part of troubling the sledge definitely to meet the everywhere. when the games are going to was a bit dangerous. having training games, they get scotland the tackles know about robust for trading,

tackles and it was and then, and that's the manage you want to be friday. i don't think the way to transition, which was a quiet anyway and gram, soon as it was a manager at a time, even barely was in the thick of things smashing people as well. so that's how we played the train that we played base. and so, yes, really, it was interesting weeks about what to do, what things fossil just for the prospects of these 2 teams to mod? i mean, i'm in england according to how to came a battle and they were in the wild card, bobby, and i'll be on the vamps of greatness. this anyone said, what do you think? what i hope so it's been a long time since i think the end of one anything. cuz you know, the seems to be a bad time rotary in the scene and we're the last time. but to me, it's all joy, if you can avoid the big piece of image image competition. frances,

germany's even porch for the oldest at a moment. then it can be can be a good time for england, but it won't be easy. and people like erica enough to stay fifties, generally in the, in the palace, not at school, most of the goals. so i agree in a way come right anyway, definitely seems to be in a better place. but only time will tell with the results. i mean, obviously great start to the competition. you need to when you 1st came in my opinion, you be really going to progress england have done that. so the pressure is off a little bit. but obviously things can change quickly. need to be gotten in on friday. and then things can be a little bit easier. and finally, not while you're waiting at the coaching of y'all for the message when you have to the young girls and boys fairly young, black girls and boys looking for the future of the game. but what would, what would be your messages of the stablish style in terms of how they should conduct themselves looking for. oh it's, it's a wonderful, wonderful game to be involved when it's

a vehicle to cross all kinds of barriers. it's life for me. i would, i was, or the best part of my young life was playing football. you know, to get paid to do something. that was actually a dream. but even if you're not getting paid just which i didn't at the end of my career, i can assure you just plain and running around was fantastic. and i would definitely definitely advise anybody not only to go to football, but any for because that is a great way to only open your life to think, but to, to meet people and to, to make sure that you enjoy your life. because i think it did that. so maybe that a lot. walters of aston, villa level pill, england, and glasgow rain. just thank you very much. indeed. thank you very much memory. thank you. any england scotland mark is about more than sports and in england, scotland football show guys. it's about much more alex face as

a prospect on the politics with top scores pundits. jim spent? well jump spend. so let's take a look at li, oldest international flexion association, football, scotland, ve england way back when it started. scotland? well, the totally dominant said we'll just been healing about the marvelous march. 18. 81 . when under watson lady steven to a 2nd one robbing of england that the oval will you covering that game jump. i was late. so late we will the dominant, very little. be happy to be in the game. you're talking to me about the, the ones that you sold to general brian scott related to scottish team on the bench

is more than well, for each option exchange, you know, on the black, we'll just leave a job and all that. you can all 120 years for the next one national course. come along. what we were very much, you know, we were the ones we got the phone and was it your general tell you that you've been to the game or english, they don't get a whole joke. good deal. i think it's up to see of course, watch it as you are more clear to go and not when you're away from queens. far you are the age of all don't to gave untruth to welcome scotch professionals approach as it came to be doing similar betty much dominant or india gave you. granted you invented the game for the next test in the seventy's was remarkable flow of colonies into the scottish international side of the sex to jump back stuff. dennis lol,

dave mckay. and there's some great players as well. but despite the fact we probably were among the best teams in the world with us with famously won the world cup in 1966 so so the claim. but the never seem to made it to the finals in the seventy's, but it never progressed. how can you explain how they got an overflow of collins and not actually you know, reaching the final stages of tournaments? well, you know, i was kind of a general so on that, you know, you know, we believe the school in the $56.00 even to seventies. we really, we swallow a job, a lot of the intent that we didn't like the tool. what to do very often because as we jump clear to your body used to see it making real world mess. box

law. jerry johnson, entity, you know, we have a list and they would fit into any few, many of us because we don't that, nor do nearly as well as we shouldn't done given the level or we can quite easily could a clean for any when you're running with one dog, half of the ball, let us know when we say to people at box and law and he said it was good and bad than anything that they hired. but very often i think we but i know discipline law and got the degree to me was great. so now let's bring it back right back to the present moment. when on the eve of the, the big much jim that the sap is as rising to say the least. we are the custom of

a golden generation of young scottish players and could they upset, overwhelming favorites tomorrow? well, i'm sure to refund the sales to dissolve situation or to work last last box. it all going to be under the leash. there's a huge sale tech getting up and coming to a wonderful good. don't whole then of course to go and kill goose shit. ahead or late. no. front wheels and the you're really, you're more, you know, they did, the schedule went to chelsea the immensely talented on the all the easy got p should talented. and so i think the usually the endo was being alone. your own because it changed something pretty bergen. so you

know we've got together to get coaching and ginger more than a message and i think very much that we got grief. a cage will be in the seat of just mentioned to me will sound good. is there anything, any of the sticker successful football site together with political stuff? does that make scotland unstoppable german spans well, going to be ever be crucial to go to a successful conclusion to european jumping ships and then march on the present shot. and i just spent, thank you so much for joining us for that. the thank you for being with us on the alex. ivan, show you all. next the ball is not a matter of life and death. it's more important than that. so said the legend, liverpool major and socialist scott bo shanquita for generations of scores. the hope rather than the reality of beefing england, wembley,

what's more important than anything else more important than life than work. and certainly in politics. it was a very embodiment of nationhood between span scotland now. the nation has this, when parliament, it's what, what's called culture on its own dynamic has gotten and i grew, these wembley confrontations has football no being placed in its proper perspective . probably a hey, but maybe asked me that question again to model so friendly from alex myself and all of issue is good by stay safe and we'll see you all again next week. ah, me

ah ah ah ah, the us media lashes all intent, joe biden, following the geneva summit thing. he gave me the mirror, put in what he wanted. made america look week a little the russian leader take some very different views by a professional. and you've got to be very careful with him in order not to miss anything. he doesn't miss anything. i can assure you the 1st us russia so much of that biden presidency delivered, mixed results with both sides pointing to deep on resolve issues, but also agreeing to reinstate or passengers ultimately up