we talk to one of the writers of the seminal all of a stone documentary series about biting putin in geneva. the myths, mistakes and mystery. and today, mark, 9 years since working found the julian time sort, political asylum in london, secretary and embassy only to be tortured in england, according to the un. what is the legacy of the arguable war crimes he uncovered in a week of more u. k. u. s. a u armed israeli strikes on the siege garza, we trace from the african war logs to columbia with independent journalist and lo and told us more coming up in today's going undergrad. but 1st global media centered this week on the geneva meeting between president putin and biden, although biden, unlike putin censored journalists from his press conference depending on where they came from. most bizarrely, maybe from what was described as a constructive meeting was biden's contention that the usa doesn't interfere with the governance of foreign countries. joining me now from washington d. c, as someone who well knows this history, co author of all of us, jones, untold history of the united states professor peter could make

b to thanks so much for coming on. so what did you make of him saying, well, what if everyone thought that america the united states interfered in the governance of other countries, more or less, he clearly hasn't read your books or senior films. well, a detailed a couple whoppers there. he said, how would it be united states reviewed by the rest of the world is interfering with the elections of other countries and everybody knew it was starting with the founding of the cia and 1947 the united states has been if this year and get elections all over the planet ever since, including in russia. but the 1st effort was in france. frances in italy, us have been involved in not only hearing and elections, but in overthrowing. busy governments including pieces, the democratically elected, very popular governments. of course the,

this is like iran in 1953 are just mistake of all and we're paying the part priced with that ever since guatemala. in 1954. we're paying the price for that. i but this is happening all over the planet, but he says, what does people lou? it, well, people's do know it. the there was a recent call by the association of democracies, which that she asked which country it asked 50000 people in 53 countries who poses the greatest rep to democracy in their countries. 44 percent said the united states. 38 percent said china 27 percent said russia. so biden's question is a little bit misplaced and very, very ignorant. i think he doesn't know. he has to know he's been involved. he was against the vietnam war. he initially he started off fairly progressively

and have some good things in his background, and he's not been all bad or all wrong. and these issues here. so of course, supported the invasion of afghanistan and the invasion of iraq. but then he oppose the troop build up. when he was vice president in afghanistan, impose a oppose the us lead nato operation there, overthrew gadhafi and libya. he apparently even opposed timber sycamore in syria. so he's been actually just tell us about timber sycamore in syria because i know the syria came up in the bio computing meeting as regards this so called humanitarian corridor. obviously viewed by many in the global south as a, as a enabler of proxies. but what was the timber sycamore, if you go through the early analysis in media commentary about what was happening in syria, there had been a 6 year drought, and there were some pro cast because the farming sector was really devin stated.

people were moving into the cities, so there was some protest, but it was very, very minor protest. and as you read the articles in time, the news make stressful is always the emphasis was out. arab spring was occurring in several countries. it was not going to hit syria because there was no strong opposition in syria. it was at that point that the united states started to give legal aid to the islamic extremist. and the united states bank rolled funded and really pushed forward this massive operation that ended up being the opposition movement in syria. the whole thing could have been avoided as syria was not about to explode there, but the united states help you with that. and now we've seen the devastating consequences that operation, syria, i being a bit unfair to britain leaving the british b. b. c, admitted the british aid also and disappeared apparently into al titling to groups

. he said there was a 2nd whopper and present we had also related to make a 2nd whopper from biter. was his comment that the united states is different from all other countries because the united states was founded on an idea on a concept. and that concept is said was freedom and human rights. and that's why he's got to bring up his question of human rights. any american president would do? so he said, because it's part of our dna. maybe there was an idea. maybe there were some people who supported human rights, but as historians know, us was founded on enslavement of millions of africans and then later african americans and founded on the massacre of the native american population that was not really human rights. the way i define human rights. so maybe nobody told by about the 161900 jack,

maybe nobody informed biden of the last 60 years of historical scholarship in this country. but clearly this kind of simplistic ideological interpretation analysis is not going to do anybody, any good enough america bashing. give me some put in mythologies. well, had his own, his own that trips into la la land prune said that. he talked about cyber and he said, the fight, the biggest vendors in on cyber are the united states, canada, latin america, and britain. apparently russia even make the top fly. you know, so that's absurd, non clear there. whether you means from the soil of those countries which you beauty and was very keen on emphasizing. i suppose moscow after all, hosts the whistleblower edward snowden. so i don't know whether the russian government advised him, but the mass spectrum,

surveillance and hacking revealed may, snowden appears to be of a different order. yeah, that's very, very different. where they were, there was more in the context of this ransomware. i don't think he was talking about governmental hacking and cyber operations because as a bomb is said, united states is better at this in anybody. and so on that level. russia has a worthy competitor in the united way. way if they're better than anyone, then how is it push and go trump elected? i mean, i us that facetiously obviously, but it is a given and certainly was amongst the nature nation media. press cool that what the intelligence agency said, even though if you read the reports, the evidence may it, it is not conclusive that russia interfered with the u. s. election interfered to stop by and being elected. this was a given that, that is part of the general concern and says,

in the united states president has acknowledged that he preferred trump over hillary clinton back in 2016. and i think that many of russia colleagues now believe also that under trump, things got much, much worse for us, russian relations. the other thing that i thought was most egregious was his response to the nevada, the question. and that's why he brought up the capital riot, the insurrection on january 6, at a set and compared nevada, the supporters to this fat violent, fascist bob that invaded the capital, trying to overturn the results of the fair election. and to lynch, not only mike pence, the vice president, but searching for legislators to also murder mean this this to compare the volunteer supporters peaceful protestors who are against corruption,

which is fascist mob is such a leap into incredulity and it gives the u. s. media. i'm not sure if he cares about that or not, but the us media has had the opportunity to discredit what says, based upon the successive. what about ism, instead of answering the question about in the volley, which he tended to do? many talked about the congress declaring russia anatomy and the ball, the volley being a foreign agent. mean if he wants to make that case, that's fine. but to go and these other, you know, trying to talk about all the bad things united states does, rather than confronting the bad things that russia does, is not going to get us anywhere. i sounds like a pitch to be putins advisor. if you don't mind, maybe talking to tony trump, people, but of course nevada me in fan is to cool muslims cockroaches in need of extermination

. and has said that the booting government is weak and should have invaded ukraine . and that seems to be redolent of the kind of rhetoric we heard from some trumps about is i'm not defending a volley. and i know that volleys popularity is very, very minimal and it's support is very, very low inside of russia. and that's why i think it's a big mistake for putting to to make him into a martyr. i think you latin of, on the speak and rest of the volley has an actual critique of corruption. and that should be acted on. corruption is not in the interest of the russian people, and i know that in from bad friends who are, are favorable to our, to my russian friends who talk about not applying to my scouts. they have not having their kids apply to moscow state university because there's so much corruption involved in the admission process. this affects people throughout russia

has no corruption to the united states effect people here. what is the lobbying effort in the united states? what is the defense contractors with their big machines getting these multi 1000000000 dollar contracts, 1000000 dollar contract to build this new ground based missile system in the united states? i mean, i'm happy to condemn what going on the united states, and i'm happy to condemn levels of corruption in russia because this is not the interest of the people in either country. so i think the volunteer should be a voice there. he doesn't pose a rep coding, he's not going to get elected dog catcher. but by making him a martyr this way, not only does that make him look bad in the eyes of the world, but it also elevates yvonne the stature. so i think this is a big mistake, peter. good. thank you. she was going to talk to you after the break just hours before who's in med brighton in geneva, u. k. u s. u, israel bummed received because the sign of all that more in the middle east,

we speak to the bestselling, reframed of the israel palestine conflict. anthony lowenstein told him all coming up to going underground. ah, one of the worst in mass shootings in america was in las vegas in 2017. the tragedy a close a little live in real life vegas. where many say elected officials are controlled by casino owners. the dangerous shooting revealed wet b, l, v m p d really is. and now it's part of the spanish and most of the american public barely remembers that happened. that just shows you the power of money and las vegas. the powerful showed that true colors,

when the pandemic had the most contagious contagion that we've seen in decades. and then you have a mayor who doesn't care. so here's caroline goodman, offering the lives of the biggest residents to be the control group. to the shiny facades conceal a deep indifference to the people by going to say that they would take an action. absolutely keep the registering and keep the slot machines doing. they use as a money machine is a huge cash register that is ran by people who don't care about people's lives being lost. the welcome back. today marks 9 years since wiki leaks founder and publish a julian, a sorry, sort refuge in the equitorial embassy in london. you can watch our interviews with him on our youtube channel today. according to the us. he is being tortured in london in a week when even concern so called mainstream media like cnn met with the department of justice about press freedom in the united states and as

u. k. u s. u armed israel bombed garza recently the side of the destruction of a p and al jazeera and joined from sydney by independent journalist and author antony lowenstein, who has been an east jerusalem for the best part of the last decade. and so you, thanks so much for coming back on. so yeah, we the now is all this geneva meeting, we get orders by bennett, the new israeli prime minister abraham gaza in response to the balloons from hamas . it seems you've been forgotten by the time the global agenda moved to geneva, but you will take on the been a decision, it sadly on surprising or one of the remarkable things about so much of the western media coverage cheaply, those who are still branding and netanyahu and i'm selling one of those people. is it been? it's record, which i'm guessing you looked at your views will be aware of is remarkably similar to netanyahu. in fact, in some cases, even though, right, when in fact, many cases the, he wanted to go even harder against guy. this is bennett. so,

you know, it's a classic example here of so much the media coverage about these issues plays up when there's a so called war or conflict for 2 weeks, a week or whatever it may be and then disappeared. and it almost seems as if i remember during the race enough player and violence, the new york times had a headline, something like, after a long period of quiet violence plays up as if somehow, every day. and there is a quiet, relaxing day holiday or every day in the west bank occupation. it's not incredibly difficult violence and challenging. i mean, the occupation is violence every single day when i live in a jerusalem between 20162020. and i've been spending a lot of time over there in the last you said 15 years, i was saying every single day down the road from my house where they've ellis 2 names a likely to be forcibly evicted any day ramp and far right. jewish fascist, which is what they are. sometimes there is rarely often they are american.

sometimes they are straight in. you have complete count, launch to not just access and get and live in the homes. i saw at times remember this amazing image. it never leaves me from 2009 when one of the previous rounds of expulsion and there was a palestinian family literally sitting on their couch outside their home on the pavement. and jewish precious had been allowed to moving in front of them. this is happening all the time. we should be clear minded about what the likely new israeli government need. yes, there's a more interesting coalition that some elements less arrived. netanyahu's coalition . that's true. but on the case she is now q patient continues and give you a livery, the great israeli jama. some are it's right in the column a few days ago that yes, anthony, who are not going to be crying and he left. but let's be clear, i want bennett stands for and my dad repeated repeated the foreign minister, the likely new prime minister apparently in 2023. both of them have expressed for

years of belief yorkie patients should not. and i think someone did account recently that 820100 out of 120 members that connects it essentially believe in jewish the pregnancy, namely that there should be no in the occupation. so will those jewish groups in america excited and hopeful that the removal met in the i will make their battles easier to convince politicians or jews that there's a new fresh air in, in israel, i hope that's true that there is no indication of why it would be based on the people made up in these rarely government today. well, in fact this, the jewish supremacy is in trying to the, in the national law, which is the law of israel. we had been, it's drop strategist, georgia bumble. and he said that man is pragmatist. in fact he, he spoke of how ariel sharon, so infamous for the massacre of refugees in beirut. look out, he soon became

a piece make a to could been it not be this new piece. make it because that's what happens to israeli politicians. what i mean, as i said anything, it's possible. but the idea that for example, ariel sharon was a peacemaker. i presume he was he referring to the removal of settling from garza, which was something to be welcomed in 2005. but let's not forget that the aim of that was doing change, the west bank occupation, and been it for years, has expressed literally 0 vision interest desires, in the occupation. fact is desire in factors to an x, the west bank. so the only way the situation will change on the ground, there are any use rarely activist or pellet being for that. and that will tell you is outside pressure, there is no current outside pressure that is likely to once a pressure israel. so in this, the e u is useless and mostly complicit america. we know where they stand, mostly,

arab countries. happy to be friends with israel received arms and weapons from israel. where's this pressure going to come from outside? well, break down britain, the european union, russia, china, all opposed the settlements and support the un resolution that was the year year and americans claims on the bottom. price is 10 almost as well. and what's interesting and just this week, which is a slight sign of progress shown to suggest on completely pessimistic. i'm actually not. is that americans for pace now which is as honest organization, growing them as a groups like this are saying the need to be some conditions on us aid to israel. that israel continues to kill palestinians to expel palestinians from the, from a serious alone from gods or etc. nathan, the conditions on a that was certainly a position that many people held on the fringes for year is not in the mainstream. yeah. and on, on the interview said, look, you know, us,

money doesn't bank grow, the israeli state is level one percent of gdp. israel can survive in any case, i just want to get on to something that maybe you can illuminate me on because we've had a hood barrack on the program. we've had, you know, different israeli politicians. whenever i talk about the nuclear weapons program. they can't talk about it, is that to explain why they're not allowed to talk about the weapons of mass destruction that israel have given that of course, the world was looking in geneva, about nuclear disarmament between biden and putin. everybody knows including them, that israel has anywhere between $1.00 to $400.00 nuclear weapon to see only known nuclear power in the middle east. why don't they want to talk about that? because there's this idea that's been established for decades, pretty much since the beginning that there was somehow and a strategic benefit. the not acknowledging you have the weapons, but oil cycle enemy, no, you have the weapon. i mean, in this day and age in 2021. it's an absurdity that israel still doesn't

acknowledge they have nuclear weapons. we all know they do. and nuclear free. well, the nuclear free, middle east, main se, israel should have no weapons, but no one wants to seriously talk about that. well, not certainly, those are in town. why. why do you think that is, i mean, presume, be the installation that demona need servicing by international contractors? maybe. i mean, why a grown adult on this program saying, look, i can't talk about that. or, i mean, usually deterrent means you tell people you haven't of the, you don't get attacked. but everyone knows they habits. i mean, this is the point. i mean, why i, arguably, i'm not sure i'm very adult. so there's not necessarily adults at all and be, i think there is a sense in this, this comes down to how israel is allowed a double standard on virtue every shape on every single country that the u. s. gives a to, in theory, at least on paper, checks and balances. not, not for a 2nd. it's not actually reality. i know it doesn't, but in some ways it should. when the israel receives $3.00 to $4000000000.00

a year, which includes vast numbers of weapons, and i might have been advised, the might say that the usa has knowing pat, that's absolute nonsense. this is not just about finances, it's actually about far more than that. it's about diplomatic military, and i would argue political cover for the israel does. israel knows that as soon as america wants to change the policy there, they could. i mentioned getting, let me before he's often said publicly that if america wants the occupational end in a way to me, that needs to be serious pressure on countries that are supposedly friendly with israel, parts of the your country, britain, to be far more forthright decided israel you can talk credibly about wanting to eradicate nonexistent iranian nuclear stress or other countries that mike a nuclear weapons in the middle east. well, you have nuclear weapons yourself. i mean, most countries, when i have that kind of love. yeah, well all the talk about the uranium elections in friday is being this change

perceived about nuclear policy. obviously, israel, as you say, neither confirm nor deny they have nuclear weapons in the whistleblower motor gave a new kidnapped in london for revealing nuclear weapons. can't talk to us because he's not allowed by israeli authorities. you treated that recently. and i had someone else, effectively detain mohammad how lobby, who is he and why? why is he in jail? he was the head of the, the palestinian garza. he was the head of will vision, which is an international n g a christ in india. he was ahead of that in gaza for number of years. and about 5 years ago, he was arrested and charged with allegedly stealing tens of millions of dollars from well vision and other organization. 0 evidence has been presented to prove that he's been in jail for 5 years and israeli prison. he was tortured. he's lost partly citing one of his eyes he had i think now it's close to 100 so

called dates. in course there's been literally no progress about his case. it's one of the longest. if not the longest k israeli history, he was offered a number of years ago, a play deal to say if you take this, you will be released. you will have a malay few years ago. about 2 years ago. he refused on principle. i am not going to acknowledge a crime. i never committed. i've never met him personally. it's impossible for journalists to maintain, but i communicated with lawyer when i was living in east jerusalem. i interviewed his lawyer. he said, and he was a palestinian lawyer. he said he'd never seen a case more or william, the sense that he often wasn't allowed to bring witnesses in from gather. he wasn't allowed often to hear witness statements in the jack in the priest in the court, in court, in jerusalem in all situations. crazy as far as i'm aware of the state and government has put no pressure on israel to resolve this. it's kind of this fall into a black hole. we invite the israeli bass drawn to respond to the allegations,

obviously that someone else near the studio, julian assange, 9 years today that he saw a political asylum. what do you make of the by ministrations, continue to attempt to extradite him for a 175 years sentence. potentially married garland, the d o j, the decision to, to keep, keep that up. i mean, has it been successful related to publishers and journalists to the question, i guess i'll answer that in 2 ways. i think for a lot of mainstream media outlets with a few notable exceptions, the shameless silence speaks volumes about how they view with they view game as problematic as not worthy of support. and that's deeply wrong because a scientist, someone who i know not best friends with him, but i've known him for number these. he's a straight in as many view as will be aware and straight and citizen myself, he has an australian passport. he's not an american citizen, and australia was essentially, well,

i'm of the best. what's the polite when i say this on television has essentially given up on him. i don't care that he could write, imprison oil dar, indeed dine for the by ministration response shows that there's no difference with the trauma, ministration, response and bama ministration with all its faults. and they were many made a decision years ago. you'll be with my, remember that it was not worth while prosecuting is because i was there for after prosecutes on the publications in which we key lakes documents appeared. i mean, it's a journalist, myself, and investigative journalist work across the world is written over books and films . there is no more essential news gathering, organisation, and wiki lake symbol in my adult life. bohannon in documents about guantanamo iraq, honduras the drug war. i mean, any issue you can imagine, any journalists who sears will use and quote, and appreciate where he likes releases to me the shameless continued incarceration

and torture of a son in a london prison. with no clear indication of when the favor would be released is not just shameful, but actually deeply corrupt and what is so remarkable, although not how silence so many journalists about his case. it speaks volumes about how they say they roll. and to me, as i thought for number, the most journalist, if you ask them, will say yes, we all believe in holding power to account then. and what most shameless want to do is because the power that that's how they say their job. so when someone like assigned or snowed in for that matter or others bravely releasing information and taking personal risks, showing us how the world actually works. you get a real sense of what kind of people they are not just jealous, but people with how they come down on issues like assange and snow and other sort of major lakes. so i am, i'm surprised about

a pole with how by then has taken. if there's still time for change, i need been in power for 6 months, but the indications are not fluid. so pressure is needed, including i might add importantly in the us by major news when i say sions to actually benefited and profited from his releases and chelsea mannings, of course. so we're talking the new york times, washington post, and others who with a few notable exceptions, have remained remarkably silent about the psalms case. well, the australian government says it's doing when it can stand. thank you. thank you. that's it for the show will be back on monday, the longest day of the year as the un human rights council needs to discuss systemic racism around the world until then even joshua social media and let us know what you think about the us as long as we're not getting the oh i

i use these are the 4 people who pulled the trigger. survive something on survival. one of the hardest things that i had the face was not having a face adult by patient life accepted. i accept the fact that i made that appointment. we had no fears. del change brief for shots,

the different stories behind the bullets the and the headlines this our here on our t as americans celebrate the end of slavery in the united states. the supreme court blocks a law suit against chocolate giants for using child labor on african fun indigenous people in canada, a garage, the right to use traditional names and official document rights activists tell us it's not enough to make up for a decade. the cultural jennifer on the government all night, you know, it was the government who made the decision to take the kids to take languages to take our culture to take any u. k. government.