[000:00:00;00] the who's time actually, we're going underground and covering the stories. the powerful do want you to know coming up in the show, how to be in the united states, reviewed by the rest of the world as interfering with the elections directly of other countries. and everybody knew it. does president biden not know the until history of the united states? we talk to one of the writers of the seminal all of a stone documentary series about biting putin in geneva, the myths, mistakes and ministry. and today, mark, 9 years since working found a julian, it's on so political asylum in london, liquidity, and embassy only to be tortured in england, according to the un. what is the legacy of the arguable war crimes he uncovered in

a week of more u. k. u. s. a. u armed israeli strikes on the siege garza, we trace from the african war logs to columbia with independent journalist anthony lo and told us a more coming up in today's going undergrad. but 1st global media centered this week on the geneva meeting between president putin and biden, although biden, unlike putin censored journalists from his press conference depending on where they came from. most bizarrely, maybe from what was described as a constructive meeting was biden's contention that the usa doesn't interfere with the governance of foreign countries. joining me now from washington d. c, as someone who well knows this history, co author of all of a stones until history of the united states professor peter could make pizza. thanks so much for coming on. so what did you make of him saying, well, what if everyone thought that america the united states interfered in the governance of other countries, more or less, he clearly hasn't read your books or senior films. well, a detailed a couple of whoppers there. he said,

how would it be united states for viewed by the rest of the world is interfering with the elections of other countries. and everybody knew it was starting with the founding of the cia and 1947. the united states has been if this year and get elections all over the planet ever since, including in russia. but the 1st effort was in france. i'm franz is in italy, us have been involved in not only hearing and elections, but in overthrowing governments, including pieces the democratically elected, very popular governments. of course, the cases like iran in 1953 are just mistake of all and we're paying the part price that ever since, or guatemala in 1954. we're paying the price that i but this is happening all over the planet, but it says, what does people, lou? it, well people's do know it the, there was

a recent call by the association of democracies, which that asked which country it asked $50000.00 people in $53.00 countries who pose is the greatest rep to democracy in their countries? 44 percent said the united states. 38 percent said china, 27 percent said russia. so biden's question is a little bit misplaced and very, very ignorant. i think he doesn't know. he has to know he's been involved. he was against the vietnam war. he initially he started off fairly progressively and have some good things in his background, and he's not been all bad or all wrong. and these issues here. so of course, supported the invasion of afghanistan and the invasion of iraq. but then he oppose the troop build up. when he was vice president in afghanistan, impose

a oppose the us lead nato operation that over through gadhafi and libya, he apparently even opposed timber sycamore in syria. so he's been actually just tell us about timber sycamore in syria because i know the syria came up in the by including meeting as regards this so called humanitarian corridor. obviously viewed by many in the global south as a, as a enabler of proxies. but what was the timber sycamore? if you go through the early analysis in media commentary about what was happening in syria, there had been a 6 year drought. and there were some pro cast because as the farming sector was really devastated, people were moving into the cities. so there was some protest, but it was very, very minor broadcast. and as you read the articles in time, the news make stressful is always the emphasis was out. arab spring was occurring in several countries. it was not going to hit syria because there was no strong

opposition in syria. it was at that point that the united states started to give legal aid to the islamic extremist. and the united states bank rolled funded and really pushed forward this massive operation that ended up being the opposition movement in syria. the whole thing could have been avoided as syria was not about to explode there, but the united states help you with that. and now we've seen the devastating consequences that operation, syria, i being a bit unfair to britain leaving the british b, b. c admitted the british aid also and disappeared apparently into al qaeda linked groups. he said there was a 2nd whopper. and present we had also related to make a 2nd walk from biter. was his comment that the united states is different from all other countries because the united states was founded on an idea on

a concept. and that concept is said was freedom and human it's. and that's why he's got to bring up his question of human rights. any american president would do, so he said, because it's part of our dna. maybe there was an idea, maybe there were some people who supported human rights. but as historians know, us was founded on enslavement of millions of africans. and then later, african americans and founded on the massacre of the native american population that was not really human rights. the way i defined human rights. so maybe nobody told bite and about the $1619.00 project. maybe nobody informed biden of the last 60 years of historical scholarship in this country. but clearly this kind of simplistic ideological interpretation analysis is not going to do anybody, any good enough america bashing. give me some put in mythologies. well,

had his own, his own that trips into la la land. prudence said that. he talked about cider. and he said that the biggest vendors in, on cyber, where the united states, canada, latin america, and britain, apparently russia never been even make the top fly. you know, so that's absurd, non clear there. whether you means from the soil of those countries which you put in was very keen on emphasizing. i suppose moscow after all, hosts the whistleblower edward snowden. so i don't know whether the russian government advised him, but the mass spectrum, surveillance and hacking revealed may, snowden appears to be of a different order. yeah, that's very, very different. where they were. that was more in the context of this ransomware. i don't think he was talking about governmental hacking and cyber operations because

as a bomb is said, faces better this in anybody. and so on that level, russia has a worthy competitor in the united way. way if they're better than anyone, then how is it push and go jump elected? i mean, i us that facetiously obviously, but it is a given and certainly was amongst the nature nation media. press cool that what the intelligence agency said, even though if you read the reports, the evidence may it, it is not conclusive that russia interfered with the u. s. election interfered to stop by and being elected. this was a given that, that is part of the general consensus in the united states president has acknowledge that he preferred trump over hillary clinton back in 2016. and i think that many my russian colleagues now believe also that under trump, things got much, much worse for us,

russian relations. the other thing that i thought was most egregious was his response to the nevada, the question. and that's why he brought up the capital riot, the insurrection on january 6, at a set and compared nevada, the supporters to this fat violent, fascist bob that invaded the capital, trying to overturn the results of the fair election. and to lynch, not only mike pence, the vice president, but searching for legislators to also murder mean this this to compare the, evolved these supporters peaceful protesters who are against corruption, which is fascist mob is such a leap into incredulity. and it gives the u. s. media, i'm not sure if he cares about that or not, but the us media has had the opportunity to discredit what he says based upon the successive. what about ism,

instead of answer the question about in the volley, which he tended to do? many talked about the congress declaring russia an enemy, and the bought the volley being a foreign agent. mean if he wants to make that case, that's fine. but to go and these other, you know, trying to talk about all the bad things united states does rather than confronting the bad things that russia does, is not going to get us anywhere. i don't know. sounds like a pitch to me. putins advisor if you don't mind maybe talking to tony trump, people, but of course nevada me in fan is appeared to cool muslims cockroaches in need of extermination and has said that the booting government is weak and should have invaded ukraine. and that seems to be redolent of the kind of rhetoric we heard from some trumps about is i'm not defending a volley. and i know that volleys popularity is very, very minimal and it's support is very,

very low inside of russia. and that's why i think it's a big mistake for putting to to make him into a martyr. i think you latin of, on the speak and the volley has an actual critique of corruption. and that should be acted on. corruption is not in the interest of the russian people, and i know that in from bad friends who are favorable to our, to my russian friends who talk about not applying to my scouts, they have not having their kids apply to moscow state university because there's so much corruption involved in the admission process. this affects people throughout russia has no corruption to the united states effect people here. what is the lobbying effort in the united states? what is the defense contractors with their big machines getting these multi 1000000000 dollar contracts, 1000000 dollar contract to build this new ground based missile system in the united states? i mean,

i'm happy to condemn what going on united and i'm happy to condemn levels of corruption in russia because this is not the interest of the people in either country. so i think the volunteer should be a voice there. he doesn't pose it rep to pony, he's not going to get elected dog catcher. but by making him a martyr this way, not only does that make him look bad in the eyes of the world, but it also elevates voluntary stature. so i think this is a big mistake. peter goes next. thank you. you're going to talk to you after the break just hours before who's in med right and in geneva, u. k. u. s. u. israel bombed besieged garza the sign of all the war in the middle east. we speak to the bestselling, reframed of the israel palestine conflict, anthony lowenstein. all this, i'm all coming out of going underground. ah

ah, with we're going to talk a lot about law plano energy and also used all k knows as a metaphor to lose the day. so many of the big trends happening in geo politics. we're fine in the welcome back today marks 9 years since wiki leaks, founder and publish a julian a some sort refuge in the equitorial embassy in london. you can watch our interviews with him on our youtube channel today. according to the us. he is being tortured in

london in a week when even concern so called mainstream media like cnn met with the department of justice about press freedom in the united states. and as u. k u s. u armed israel bombed gaza. so recently the side of the destruction of a p and al jazeera and joined with sydney by independent journal north antony lowenstein, who has been an east jerusalem for the best part of the last decade. and city. thanks so much for coming back on. so yeah, we the now is all this geneva meeting, we get orders by bennett, the new israeli prime minister garza in response to the balloons from hamas. it seems you've been forgotten by the time the global agenda moved to geneva. but your take on the been a decision it sadly on surprising or one of the remarkable things that so much of the western media coverage, actually those who are still writing and netanyahu. and i'm still one of those people. is it been? it's record which i'm guessing you looked at your views will be aware of,

is remarkably similar to netanyahu. in fact, in some cases, even though, right, when in fact, many cases, the, he wanted to go even harder against this is bennet. so, you know, it's a classic example here of so much the media coverage about these issues plays up when there's a so called war or conflict for 2 weeks away or whatever it may be and then disappear. and it almost seems as if i remember during the race enough, claire and violence, the new york times had a headline, something like, after a long period of quiet violence plays up somehow every day. and there is a quiet, relaxing holiday or every day in the west bank occupation. it's not incredibly difficult violence and challenging. i mean, the occupation is violence every single day when i live in a jerusalem between 20162020. and i've been spending a lot of time over there in the last, as you said, 15 years, i was saying every single day, down the road from my house, where they tell us the names likely to be forcibly evicted any day. rampant,

far right. jewish fashion, which is what they are sometimes there is rarely often there american, sometimes there will straighten. you have complete kind of launch to, to access and get and live in the homes. i saw at times remember this amazing image . it never leaves me from 2009 when one of the previous rounds of expulsion and there was a palestinian family literally sitting on their couch outside their home on the pavement. and jewish precious had been allowed to moving in front of them. this is happening all the time. we should be clear minded about what the likely new israeli government need. yes, there's a more interesting coalition that some elements and less arrive netanyahu's coalition. that's true. but on the case she is now q patient continues and give you a livery, the great israeli journalists and it's right in the column a few days ago that yes, yeah. who not going to be crying and he left. but let's be clear on that one.

bennett stands for and my dad repeated repeated the foreign minister, the likely new prime minister. apparently in 2023. both of them have expressed for years a believe your patients should not. and i think someone did account recently that a 12200 out of 120 members that connects it essentially believe in jewish diplomacy, namely that there should be no in the occupation. so although some jewish groups in america excited and hopeful that the removal met in the i will make their battles easier to convince politicians or jews. but there's a new, fresh air in, in israel, i hope that's true, but there is no indication of why it would be based on the people made up in these rarely government today. well, in fantasy the jewish supremacy is in trying to the, in the national law, which is the law of israel. we had been it's drop strategist,

georgia bumble. and he said that bennett is a pragmatist. in fact he, he spoke of how ariel sharon, so infamous for the massacre of refugees in beirut. he look out, he soon became a piece make a to, could been it not be this new piece, make it because that's what happens to israeli politicians. what i mean, as i said, anything is possible. but the id that for example, ariel sharon, was a peacemaker. i presume he was referring to the removal of settling from garza, which was something to be welcomed into 5. but let's not forget that the aim of that was doing change, the west bank occupation, and been it for years, has expressed literally 0 vision interest desires, in the occupation. fact is desire and factors to an x, the west bank. so the only way the situation will change on the ground, there are any use rally activist or posting for that, and that will tell you is outside pressure. there is no current outside pressure

that is likely to once a pressure israel. so in this the e u. is useless and mostly complicit america. we know where they stand. mostly our countries happy to be friends with israel received arms and weapons from israel. where's this pressure going to come from outside? well, break down britain, the european union, russia, china, all opposed to settlements and support the un resolution that was the year year. i mean, americans claims under bought and i applied as well. and we'll interesting in just this week, which is a slight sign of progress shown to suggest on completely pessimistic. i'm actually not. is that americans for pace now which is as honest organization growing, there was a groups like this are saying the need to be some conditions on us aid here. israel, that it israel continues to kill palestinians to expel palestinians from the from east jerusalem bomb gods, or etc. that needs to be conditions on a that, that was certainly a position that many people held on the fringes for years,

but not in the mainstream. yeah. on on the interview said, look, you know, us money doesn't bankroll the israeli state, is level one percent of gdp. israel can survive in any case, i just want to get on to something that maybe you can illuminate me on because we've had a hood barrack on the program. we've had, you know, different israeli politicians. whenever i talk about the nuclear weapons program. they can't talk about it, is that just explain why they're not allowed to talk about the weapons of mass destruction that israel have given that cause the world was looking in geneva, about nuclear disarmament between biden and pigeon. everybody knows including them, that israel has anywhere between $1.00 to $400.00 nuclear weapon to see only known nuclear power in the middle east. why don't they want to talk about it? because there's this idea that's been established for decades, pretty much since the beginning that there was somehow and a strategic benefit in not acknowledging you have the weapons,

but oil cycle enemy know you have the weapon. i mean, in this day and age in 2021. it's an absurdity that israel still doesn't know if they have nuclear weapons. we all know they do. and nuclear free world and nuclear free middle age means all say israel should have no weapons, but no one wants to seriously talk about that. well, not certainly, those are in town why. why do you think that is? i mean, presumably the insulation demona need servicing by international contractors. maybe . i mean, why grown holds on this program saying, look, i can't talk about that. or, i mean usually deterrent means you tell people you haven't of the, you don't get attacked. but everyone knows they habits. i mean, this is the point. i mean, why i arguably, i'm not sure i'm very adult. so there's not necessarily adults at all. and they, i think there is a sense in this, this comes down to how israel is allow the double standard on virtually every sheet on every single country that the u. s. gives a to, in theory at least on paper,

checks and balances. not, not for a 2nd, it's not actually reality. i know it doesn't, but in some ways it should. when the israel receives $3.00 to $4000000000.00 a year, which includes vast numbers, the weapons. and i might add, bennett, advise them might say that the usa has no pack. that's absolute nonsense. this is not just about finances. it's actually about far more than that. it's about diplomatic military. and i would argue political cover for the israel does. israel knows that as soon as america wants to change the policies there they could. i mentioned getting, let me before he's often said publicly that if america wants the occupational engine a way to make the needs to be serious pressure on countries that are supposedly friendly with israel, parts of the your country, britain, to be far more forthright decided israel, you can talk credibly about wanting to eradicate non existent iranian nuclear threat or other countries that micro nuclear weapons in the middle east. while you

have nuclear weapons yourself. i mean, most countries, when i have that kind of love. yeah, well all the talk about the uranium elections and fridays when this change ship perceived about nuclear policy. obviously israel as you say, neither confirm or deny they have nuclear weapons in the whistle blower motor gave a new kidnapped in london for revealing nuclear weapons. can't talk to us because he's not allowed by israeli authorities. you tweeted that recently and i had someone else effectively detain mohammad how lobby, who is he and why? why is he in jail? he was the head of the, the palestine in gaza. he was the head of will vision, which is international n g a christ in india. he was ahead of that in gaza for number of years. and about 5 years ago, he was arrested and charged with allegedly stealing tens of millions of dollars from well the vision and other organization 0 evidence has been presented to prove

that he's been in jail for 5 years. israeli prison. he was tortured. he lost partly size in one of these eyes he had, i think now it's close to 100 so called dates. in course there's been literally no progress about his case. it's one of the longest. if not the longest k israeli history, he was offered a number of years ago, a play deal to say if you take this, you will be released. you will relate the years ago. about 2 years ago. he refused on principle, so i am not going to acknowledge a crime. i never committed. i've never met him personally. it's impossible for journalist to maintain, but i communicated with lawyer when i was living in a truce lunch. i interviewed his lawyer. he said, and he's a palestinian lawyer. he said he'd never seen a case more or william, the sense that he often wasn't allowed to bring witnesses in from gather. he wasn't allowed often to hear witness statements in the jack in the priest in the court, in court, in jerusalem, in all situations. crazy. as far as i'm aware,

the straight and government has put no pressure on israel to resolve this. it's kind of this fall into a black hole. we invite these really bass drawn to respond to the allegations. obviously there's someone else near this studio. julian assange, 9 years today that he saw a political asylum. what do you make of the by ministrations, continue to attempt to expedite him for a 175 year sentence, potentially married garland, the d o j, the decision to, to keep, keep that up. i mean, it hasn't been successful related to publishers and journalists to be a question, i guess i'll answer that in 2 ways. i think for a lot of mainstream media outlets with a few notable exceptions, the shameless silence speaks volumes about how they view with they view him as problematic as not worthy of support. and that's deeply wrong because assigned to someone who i know not best friends with him, but i've known him for number he's, he's

a straight in as many view as will be aware. and straight or citizen myself. he has an australian passport. he's not an american citizen, and australia was essentially, well, most of best must the polite what i say this on television as essentially given up on him. i don't care that he could write, imprison oil dar, indeed dine for the by ministration response shows that there's no difference with the trumpet, ministration response and bama ministration with all its faults. and they were many made a decision years ago. you'll be with my, remember that it was not worth while prosecuting is because i was there for after prosecutes on the publications in which we see leaks, documents appeared. i mean, it's a journalist, myself, and investigative journalist is work across the world is written over books and films. there is no more essential news gathering, organisation, and wiki lake symbol in my adult life, bohannon and documents about guantanamo iraq, honduras the drug war. i mean, any,

she can imagine any journalist who fears we use and quote and appreciate where he likes releases to me the shameless continued incarceration and torture of a son in a london prison. with no clear indication of when the favor would be relief is not shameful. but actually deeply corrupt and what is so remarkable, although not how silence so many journalists about his case. it speaks volumes about how they say they roll. and to me, as i thought for number, the most journalist, if you ask them, will say yes, we all believe in holding power to account then. and what most shameless want to do is because the power that that's how they say their job. so when someone like assigned or snowed in for that matter or other bravely releasing information and taking personal risks, showing us how the world actually works. you get a real sense of what kind of people they are not just jealous,

but people with how they come down on issues like a sounds more than other sort of major lakes. so i am, i'm surprised, but a pole with how by then has taken it. there's still time to change, so he's only been in town for 6 months. but the indications are non fluid. so pressure is needed, including i might add, importantly in the us by major news organizations to actually benefited and profited from his releases and chelsea mannings, of course. so we're talking the new york times, washington post, and others who with a few notable exceptions, have remained remarkably silent about the psalms case. well, the australian government says it's doing when it can stand. thank you. thank you. that's it for the show will be back on monday, the longest day of the year as you and human rights council needs to discuss systemic racism around the world until then even joshua social media and let us

know what you think about the us as long as we're in again this these are the 4 people who pulled the trigger. survive something on survival. one of the hardest things that i had the face was not having a face. i had a little patient life accepted. i accept the fact that i made that appointment. we had no fears. del change pretty fast for shots. different stories behind the bullets. the ok,

ah. ah as americans celebrate a new holiday marking the end of slavery in the us, the supreme court blocks a lawsuit against chocolate giants for using child labor on a freaking go ahead with a story indigenous people think on the very front at the right to use their traditional names and official documents, but a rights activist tells us it's not enough to make up for decades of cultural genocide because the government, oh, oh my you know,