war when around 40000000 need food a. to eat in the usa, we analyze the new 2021, global peace and ex report. and what can historic atrocities teach us about war and peace? today we speak to the bbc's form and gere correspondent, bobby phillips, to investigate the been in bronze is artifacts looted by the british of a 100 years ago and sit at the center of struggles against imperialism, colonialism, and racial violence. all the more coming up in today's going underground, but 1st, the annual global peace index is published in finding to 2021. showing mobile peace has deteriorated for the 9th. here in our own military spending is ramping up. joining me now for analysis of the report from sidney is the founder of the global piece index. steve kimberlia, thanks so much for coming on. you say the report covers 99.7 percent of the entire world we've. we've covered increasing violence on this program, palestine, yemen, iraq, across latin america and africa. boobies index peaceful is just fell point 07 percent

doesn't sound like a lot. no, actually it's not. it's the 2nd lowest drop. the tip they years with been doing it . but what was found is, what's interesting is 87 countries improved in 73 countries. deteriorated what is highlights, but it's much easier to fall in place than it is to improve and improving and paste as a much more gradual process. but of course, time and time again in the report cove, it is mentioned as a factor. yes. now this, this is correct and in some ways it had a positive effect on pace in the early days, particularly as the locked downs came in. so fall and crime decreased, we saw a homicide se also decreased civil wrist like demonstrations and such the christ. but that was short lived. the 2 biggest picks from romney level, civil and rest, particularly express violent demonstrations and political instability. and so those

increases in fall and demonstration are up 10 percent compared to the prior year. but it does cover a trend now which has been going on 3 decades where you had a 151 percent increase in the fall and demonstration, although that's, that's not, of course uniform. frances, more peaceful perhaps. because the yellow vespers protests were 4 and a half 1000 people in france were wounded. obviously, the end of s protest as we didn't see. and of course, 11 people died reportedly that there wasn't so much of that. yes, now look as it's appearing from country to country when we're looking, but it's a good ball and demonstrations of global trend. there were $5000.00 in the fall and incidence is related to cope. and actually india had the highest number, but the next highest area was really concentrated around europe. and sort of the us as well. a lot of protests against small dance, but we look in fall and demonstrations the globally lots of different grace. and so

if we're looking down in the u. s, for example, black life matter, smith at high number, there we go to india. what you find there is against the agricultural way was which are coming into the indian bella roost. obviously, you've got the unsettled political situation there. if you went down to way mine are obviously the 2. if you move down to let the mary, for many countries, there are lots of the protests against the various economic conditions in those countries. i mean, you mentioned black lives matter purchased. it must be nothing compared to the gun violence in the united states. what 40000 people are killed in the united states from gun violence. withdraw anything in violent protests? i presume. oh yes, definitely. i think there are a number to the indexes can struck to the 23 different indicators. homicide is one

of them. the homicide rates, the us from memory or 240-0000. that's high compared to the west democracies bed. they'd see low compared to the really highly violent countries in the world. so if you went down to latin america, for example, if you find the most fall and countries in the world, they'll sell your garage with towards the bottom. the probably the most startling fact there would be look at mexico, the 5 cities in the world, the highest homicide rights will reside. and mexico, mexico itself has overall, did not cost on the side, right. a context really taken into account, arguably as regards the immigration from the side of the rio grande to to north america. yeah. because on your, on your index you've got 5 worst security countries impacted by they do have dentist on venezuela, yemen south did on iraq. well, it was

a violent crime. the united states is just below f canister. and worse than so done . and it was all those 5 have us troops or u. s. foreign policy involvement in the u. s. ranks and $22.00 on the global pace index. and so that's a for the 2 places that the fall in the us was really light back to a issues related to increase this involuntary ministrations and the political instability soci. i'd get the last election that hand now philosophically definitions of what it is to be at peace, obviously change. and during corona virus, some people have been accusing which countries vaccine apartheid. have you taken into account the how the way the global south accuses rich countries of the vaccine war in britain? apparently a lot of political argues it's about why britain is not donating more vaccines to the globals of the global pace index. we use the definition of place which is

called the absence of violence or parabolic. and so to construct an index, you need to be able to get data, which you can then take across the various countries of the world. so we've got a $163.00 countries we measure. so it's not an absence of premise. your death is 3 domains. it works on one is internal safety and security. so that's obviously this 3 homicide in the fall in crime and such battlefield dis, come into a death through internal conflict, dime demonstrations and title comes into it as well. so the range of different indicators, sleepy, come back to a militarization. just measure of the levels of militarization. hence the position of the us, perhaps, or in the us at the highest rate has double the capital gun ownership compared to 2nd place in the world of yemen. you don't take into account excess deaths through economic policies. oxford university of delhi darling told us on, on this show,

the number of excess deaths because we're staring off to the bank may lead to 28, maybe around 830000. that's an order of magnitude, similar to the number who did so far from over in britain is certainly look, if you look lively, poverty went down to africa. for example, the number of people who die down there. it's a exceptionally high, but we haven't got the data to really be calculate those kind of things into the index to finance ministers. escape scott free after reading this report when they goes to trial policies and reduce government spending. the largest deterioration your report is between 29 and 2900 libya. i mean, do you think nature of country leaders will read this report and realize the nato intervention under president obama has been a disaster here? look, i think they middle age to spend. certainly trouble ok. now coming round to be so

if we're looking at the, the middle east elastic it's been very, very trouble. but what we find is the for the 5 year lease plates will countries in the world actually improve? so we've recently looks like it's been a pe still struck in libya, so hopefully that'll prove it. that'll improve the time as well. nothing. no one would really like the situation which has occurred in libby or the last few years. and why does is there be no improvement in syria given that has defeated isis and very large portions of syria? it seems to have no change in terms of peace. yet notice had not changed ranks, but has had an improvement in place on us. the issue is what a napkin, a stance now, police place will be gone back 3 years ago. you would have found that syria was the least place for its place has improved in the last 12 months. and we mentioned that keep going. one of the things you find with an index like this,

when you get down to those random levels fall, it's really stretches. and so there's big gaps in the bottom, in intakes between different countries. and so i mentioned earlier on takes time for countries to improve fruit minutes in place of much more gradual deterioration in television media terms. the lack of peace was most noticeable, arguably because of the 11 day war in palestine. you say palestine is more peaceful than russia. how? how do you arrive at that would? well, you get there simply because when we're looking at the race pilot palestine, the fill out saw the measurements for the sheer cuts off the 31st of march, the measurements we do. so imagine next year you can find that by palestine and israel began to fall on the index. but obviously the excess deaths because of the siege of gaza. you can't factor those inland. we only work with data sets we can

get, which we can cover globally. and when we're looking at people who die through lack of now nutrition, particularly in sub saharan africa, we haven't got the ability to be the measure it accurately. now, i don't know whether you think there might be a direct correlation here. you mentioned military spending. so the biggest weapons spend is u. s. u k funds, germany and now. yeah, and so they're big weapons vendors. and of course, those countries are the ones that weapons are in the countries or deployed and used in the countries which are make the countries with the, with the least amount of piece when you, me an exact balance there. well, certainly the supply of the industry is the good the list which gets out in the country between conflict, obviously the place today. and there are certainly many proxy wars which i get

right in different parts of the world. but certainly one of the driving factors in the last 5 years, it was know, in the last 7 years, it's been the rise of bias and why it moved through syria through what you get, i rock and day. so certainly that you do need weapons to part the toxic right. change like that. if we're looking over into this whole reach mom and we can see arise that elements of isis there. so again, i think certainly having a better regulations around a weapon. so i think it's really, really important. that's really, but that's the responsibility of thing. you went out this to be out better, but the scale of the subs, region and so on is far less than i don't know, the opioid crisis is what half a 1000000 dead between 992019. the venezuelan government says 40000 dead because of

sanctions by countries like britain in the united states. do you think you can factor in in the next report? venezuela? now claiming that the kovacs broberg program is being weaponized to prevent life saving vaccines for a country like venezuela. but this stage we can see is including a lack of vaccine in a pallet. you know, the availability back saying it's being part of the global pace index. and again, it comes back to the data and i keep signing the data, which you can get to do. the index is limited. the limited availabilities and i great 100 percent with the 3 way health issues and a bad and sort of particularly when this lack of food. but the lack of food, china is very, very complicated. matter and conflict can fall into it in different ways. but they're a whole range of other things which just come down to simply incompetence within

the gum. see korea. thank you greg. thank you. joy playing on after the break, after germany agrees to return their been bronzes looted for more jury by british troops. we look at what the british refusal to do the same says about its approach to racial justice, imperialism, and was in the name of capital. all this, i'm all coming out of going underground. ah, the summit who's coming guns, but biking real message on his european toward was to galvanized washington's outline into some kind of anti china lion that he succeed also the january 6 right? the f b i n b r o gives me ah, ah ah,

ah ah ah ah, ah, ah, ah ah ah welcome back and when we heard about the decades deteriorating peace in the

world, can anything really change of nations responsible for centuries of bloodshed refuse to reckon with their crimes. this is one of the questions of the center of a debate around the beneath bronze is artifacts looted by the british from what is now. and i gere a in the wake of a brutal invasion. so while germany has agreed to return, it's ron does. what does it say about the you can the u. s. that they have so far shown? no signs of really doing the same. joining me from london, his bond to be philip's former b, b. c, nigeria correspondent, and the author of lute britain and the benign bronzes. thanks so much fun to me for coming on. obviously, statues of racists and slave trade is coming down across britain. tell me how the money in bronze is links. you can colonialism, miller tourism the economics, let alone the global fight for justice against relates. i think the ben in bronze is, had become emblematic around the high in charged argument over colonial due to doc,

which is being played out in britain, in europe. and in the united states, and there are probably, i would argue 2 reasons for this. the 1st is that they are really spectacular works and there are so many of them thousands of them and they are very prominent in the great museums of europe and the united states. that in the met there in the british museum there in berlin, there in the me a k brown, lee and parish and so on. and i think the other reason is the way in which they were taken in $1897.00, which is right towards the end of the period that we call the scramble for africa. the initial territorial grab of africa is just not that long ago. and it is perhaps, as a consequence of that very well documented from the british side, the ref latches, there are journals, there are photographs. and so the story,

at least from the british point of view, is very intact it staring us in the face. if you care to look for it, i want to get to the bloodshed in a 2nd. but given that you are a long standing, a journalist you covered, you covered in the book about, i think the sort of orientalist hedge a monic power that went on in 1897 about the journalists reactions to the exhibition. in the 897. i mean, they were all baffled. we even those that seem to be anti colonial are going well this can't be black african. that's right. and the been in bronze is go on display in september of 18. 97 they, they've been looted in february of 1897 from benny and that 1st. busy great exhibition takes place in the british museum in september and it causes a sensation. you're right. the words which the journalists use are baffled. remarkable amaze because what they are seeing,

challenges at that conceptions prejudiced is not the justice class conceptions but the prejudices of, of late victorian england, of course, because they are seeing works of extraordinary beauty. and they are likened to ancient greece. they likened to the finest works of the italian nations, and yet of course, africa is meant to be a place of barbarism and a place of savagery. and the bending in particular, has been portrayed as a very right bark, very barbaric place during the british military invasion, some 6 or 7 months earlier. the other thing, of course, is that africa is meant to be a place without history. and yet here, all these bad and bones, blacks, you can see fabulously details or trails of early portuguese explorers soldiers, sailors in alma, from the 15th century, which means that they all themselves, almost hundreds of years. and of course,

points to what is that i guess contract for the british and $800.00 to $7.00, which is the bending kingdom, has enjoyed a peaceful relationship with successive waves of european explorers and traders, including british traders, portuguese dutch, french for some 400 years. and he had john, this can see that the time saturday was june, teen celebrating a form of freedom in texas. that was granted how important is the link between these bronzes and the genocidal slave trade? it's a complex connection between, between the slave trade and the band in bronzes. the, the bending kingdom remains a powerful kingdom throughout the period of the transatlantic slave trade. and to some extent, it is on the periphery of the slave trade. it's true that at its height bending does supply thousands of slaves for the dutch, for the british,

for the portuguese. but it doesn't get sucked in to the extent that other kingdoms do say on what was called the gold coast and the slave coast and so on. often, in fact, the commodity that is most prized in bending is ivory and that is something which the dutch in particular take out a penny in huge quantities later. of course, in the mid 900 century onwards, the british having been enthusiastic proponents of the slave trade have become zealous in trying to stamp it out. and this is used as one of the arguments for food for ending that means independence and for the invasion, which is from the british point of view, a desire to end the slave trade and to end what they are calling the barbaric practice of human sacrifice. i'll get to humans back to humans in a 2nd, but you are at the elephant protection initiative. after all,

you just mentioned the ivory. what is the scale of killing of elephant? what, what was the scale of this commodities trading? the scale is astonishing. the situation in the area of the elephants today, it is probably the might be about $400.00, maybe 30 in a small forest left near bending. but when you see what successive european powers took out of bending for hundreds and hundreds of years, a single dot ship that was sailing down the bending river to amsterdam in the 18th century, had more ivory on it, probably much more ivory than there are elephants in nigeria today and this would have been a journey replicated thousands of times. the great west african herds were destroyed primarily by european demand over hundreds of years between the 15th and 19th century. we're going to make it clear that when we talk about beneath, we're not talking about the country of been in this is in jerry or if anyone's

watching and confused needs to go to an atlas. why do you think it is then the when you went to school? certainly when i went to school, none of this story was there about i mean, not even really the transit, i think slave trade, let alone the great civilizations of africa. i feel an important part of why our understanding has changed on the, on issues of colonial art, but i guess on the slave trade as well is, is the composition of all societies. and if you look at the kinds of crowds that are milling the streets around, bloomsbury around the british museum in the center of london, they are very, very different to the sorts of crowds that will be walking through london in the 1940s or fifties. let alone the 1819. and so institutions like the british museum,

you will have to phase where i will so he much more recently. i mean, that's good to get on to when i did i, we've kind of shocked me that, you know, we've had liberal interventionism libya of canister syria, and you talk about one of the most famous oriental is seen is an anti colonial person. richard burton and others who ironically prepares the way for thee should i call it savage, british empire, a destruction of society in beneath knowing nigeria. richard burton had an extraordinary career. and one of his last name roles is that he's, he's a console on the, on the island of fernando po, which is, which is today, equitorial gimme. and so he has a responsibility for that knowledge of delta coast. just at the time when british control is starting and you're right, he makes

a trip to bending at that time some 30 years before the invasion by the british. i mean, he helps implant an image of penny in which is dug up very successfully some 35 years later by the british, which is the bending is a place of sovereignty. it is a, it is a degenerate civilization. is it a place that has decayed that may have been great in the past? and i think that that lays the foundations for the justification of what happens later. absolutely. the big story, i mean we have jeffrey robinson qsc about his book of the organ. marbles is, of course, whether the british museum should return them. the british museum says it has an extra long term working relationship with the jury and colleagues and so on. why do you think britain is refusing to return? some of the particular building bronze is located in the collection in bloomsbury.

the 1st option is, as you know, different institutions in britain that have different rules. are the rob, small, university museums, local authority, museums, and so on, which is saying actually they're quite open to the idea of returning that. been in bronze is the british news in like any big institution, it is full of people who don't necessarily agree with each other. and perhaps if i went into this project, thinking of the british museum as a, you know, a large, an arrow going monolithic establishment that never changed. i think i've come away with a slightly more nuanced image of, of an institution that doesn't, that, that is divided that particularly right now at the time of the pandemic fields on the back foot, financially reluctant to take on the british government. and of course, remember the political context, the british museum,

is constrained by something called an act of 1963, which makes it impossible for it to hand over to d, accession for ever objects. and it's collection without a change in the law. now, of course, laws can change them and to change along with morality and ethics and laws have changed over national law collections over not see looted are they changed over human body parts and the to the british museum can get, can disposal or hand over those items and so, you know, in theory they could be putting pressure on the government to change the museum act of 963. but if you look at this concept of government, we've got in the u. k. at the moment with the secure majority in parliament, i don't think that changing the museum act so that national collections can be de accessions and returned to countries like nigeria is part of its cultural agenda very quickly. the range of the book is so big, so, so new on 7,

you talk about the british drug dealing in china and where mary ross and one is in the royal navy g. do you think that beneath massacre which might have come up in history books in the 900 eighty's when the british soldiers were killed? is kind of that generations saddam's incubator in saddam hussein's w m. d. the. these kinds of captures of material and regime change and so needs a massacre to catalyze it. to be honest, this is what is so fascinating about passing is you can read it still 125 years later in lots of different ways. vice counsel james phillips, a man to, i'm not related by the way, is killed on route to been in city with 6 of the british officials and traders. and indeed hundreds of or maybe hundreds be that we don't know. nobody counted them. that's the tragedy about thousands of,

of african porters and carriers who are within and this, if you like, provides the pretext for the british to invade, been in city. but it's also clear that the all people in london in white, all including the prime minister, who think the idea of invading been in city, is going to be expensive. you said lots of white soldiers to those, to the white man's grave as west africa still is. they still don't know how mon area is caused, and white children is going to die of fever. it's going to cost a lot of money. so people are reluctant into this, this event happens, this tragedy from the british point of view. and of course it has to be seen in the context of great jealousy and rivalry between the european powers, the german newspapers gloat over the british defeat at bending. and so i think it has to be seen in that context. there is a scramble for west africa and different imperial powers, the staking next line. bungie phillips, thank you. plaza for the show will be back on wednesday when the united nations

discusses jo, buttons continue, economic commercial, financial embargo against cuba during the global corona virus pandemic into then keep in touch with social media. tell us if you think britain should return the been a bronze denija area. ah, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy foundation. let it be an arms race is on often very dramatic development. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical of time. time to sit down and talk join me every thursday on the alex simon show. and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politics sport. business. i'm show business. i'll see you then me

the ah, dozens of criminal cases are opened on hundreds of web pages remove russia and tackles a trade in faith vaccine certificate reporter following the risk of trying to obtain one for him. so they put all the information that i gave them, the faith name, date of birth was fated. i was scam and i've lost my money. public opinion, a split over 2 statues of george floyd recently unveiled for june the news federal holiday marketing, the end of slavery in the us. we put the issue up for debate. there are.