every, your courage, activists be detach or refuse to move on. we are not to speech. have any. you need to punish. i thought i'm trying to shut off. this is no or i'd open. this is the most a smoked man in britain. from the early day, i thought it was a brave mother. when i tried to play by the rules, it hasn't worked. and now we're going to break the rules in the me that i thought. so welcome back to the alex ivan show. great to join you. peter, the most hated man in britain. but you know, a national treasure to follow your name flicks on the films coming in august. my goodness was happening to peter gordon. main street. i haven't changed, but the consensus and society shifted, and i'm so proud to be part of that movement will of course, many millions of other people. well,

the films fascinate the i see the exclusive preview of it. but let's, let's help that. if you are somebody who is actually culture the most hated man and let me say that the title have impeded actual came about because the director christ of amos, when he thought about making the film, was shocked by the scale of hate and vitriol against me. nowadays, i would say that public opinion has dramatically revised you of me in the life of my work, not just on l g, b plus right. but also on human rights in general. because i am a universal human rights campaigner and i stand to defend the human rights of everyone. so let's go back to we have it all begun your life as a protest of campaign bye to your date of failure. your 1st real campaign male is against vietnam, and that was the huge issue of the late sixties and early seventy's. so that would be right to say that you are a vietnam protest before you became a l g

b t activist. well, that's right. i mean, in fact, my earliest awareness was around 963. when i was 11 years old and i heard about the bombing of a black church in birmingham, alabama, where 4 young girls about my own age were murdered by what races? i remember 11 years of age thinking that was so so shocking. and i didn't spot my interest in and support of the black civil rights movement led by doctor martin luther king. and ever since he still, his methods and model of activism has been my template. i didn't really run and so when it came to the war and get nom for the 7 i was in australia and i was fighting alongside the american were getting on i research what the ball was about and concluded that it was a very unjust war. so i joined with others and many, many others to organize a huge mass protest in my home city of melbourne against the war. a 100000 people

turned out to bring the city center to a standstill. that was almost 10 percent of the entire population. and it did mark the turning point when the trade and government finally began to think about withdrawal. so, i mean, most people over read about the anti war protests in america. how the impact on american politics had the same sort of impact. and the politics was failure. absolutely, i mean, in the 960 australia was gripped by its own version of mccarthyism, an anti communist, which anybody with liberal opinion was labeled a communist. i nearly lost my job because i was seen as an active, yet no more protest. i had to fight tooth and nail to retainer, and that was very typical of the era. but the mass protest of that time to demand australian withdraw troops from vietnam. that did really fundamentally change australian politics and lead eventually to the election of golf with the government

in the early 970 you arrived affectively as a refugee was c nice shores where you're fleeing from the draft or was it the repressive to homosexual legislation which could have senior jailed by bit of both and it wasn't just the into a law that existed in the straight at the time, but also other very liberal law. the death penalty, the censorship of books and plays ban on abortion. a woman's right to choose a whole host of very liberal measures were in place. but of course, the vietnam war and my willingness to be drafted for that war. because i had a conscious objection that was the driving force that led me to come to britain. and i intended to stay only briefly, but the permanent stay permanent. stay here and you arrived in a breath and huddle. wilson had plenty sensibly kept out of the the vietnam war.

but nonetheless, it was still repressive legislation against sexual fact. you're coming out at the age where would have been illegal heal at that time as well. but i rived in london in 971 age 19. and although there had been a partial criminalization of male homosexuality in england and wales in 967, still many aspects of game male life remain criminalized and in fact were not fully repealed until 2003. and you say you see male life because of lesbianism was it was not what i say, a legal correct. that's right. yes. so there was never any legal legal law again, sex between mom and they said, because could victoria couldn't come to the 5 to any such thing could possibly have gone on. well, that's the allegation. the apocryphal story you arrived in a society which was changed and certainly give a sec, timothy was changing fast and the 1970. so. so you arrived in

a flourishing gay movement that gay played monkeys was laughing key organizations were starting up as well. so that was a good environment to come to as a gay rights activist. well yes, it was incredibly exciting to arrive in london from melbourne, australia, where there were no algebra plus organizations and wellness that showed he was still a criminal offense, punishable by several years imprisonment in all circumstances. coming to britain with the partial, the criminalization homosexuality and the formation of the gate. abrasion front was an incredibly exciting personal liberation to be able to join with other algebra due post people and 5 are right. that was phenomenal. very exciting moment. what perhaps did distinguish you from, from other campaigns, as you also chose to, to promote your activism for conventional politics, for the labor profit. and famously became the labor candidate and what has been

described as the ductless bi election of the 20th century. and that's been shipped duct the bi election, so batman's in 1983 doesn't live up to that title, wasn't the duct, the bi election has. well, a lot of commentators at the time said it was the dirtiest most violent and definitely most homophobic election in britain. so that, that's a sort of way with pride. but it was very, very tough. and of course i wasn't just standing for l g b plus, right? i was standing for everybody's right for social justice for a fair or more equitable society for everyone. but whether you have to get you because you want to get to us to get you because you were a read people and the gay gay attack was just that convenient me means of settling the hush. while i was targeted on 3 front,

i was targeted because i was born in australia, even though i can trace my family back to england in 1560 in somerset i was attacked because i, yes i was a left wing campaigner. but indeed, all the extreme of policies that i had, i now main street, you know, argued for a national minimum wage, told that was extremely, i argued for negotiated settlement in northern ireland. that's now happened. i argued for a comprehensive quality act to protect everyone against discrimination that is now the law of the land. so you know what i stood for then is now the mainstream. and i'm so proud that you know, i began the process would help make that happen. because you want to focus, but for a number of competing interests to get, you know, as the right where the labor party did the bi election was really say top. so you could be targeted by the resignation of the incumbent, m, p, the liberal party. we're, we're waiting to, to some, the bi election,

the liberal s d p alliance as the, as the well then the real bad and the labor will, the, can a street manifestations of ra prejudice and the mainstream media. of course, perhaps not emphasizing the homosexuality but going for the extremist, the red tagged out to you up. so you became the focal point in the target for a number of competing forces. united only in desperation to get you. would that be a fair summary? why don't you get me there out to get the labor party and base exceeded because i lost that election. but i'm very proud that i stood on comprehensive algebra plus right platform with policies that are now the law of the land. i was the head of my time. i think also that it needs to be said that, that bi election because of the way i was treated by the tabloid press and by rivals because of the homophobic way i was treated. that made it much easier for

other people like chris smith, the labor and pay to come out the following year. i think there was such a revulsion against the way i was treated. no one dared to heap that upon anybody else, so i made it easier for others and that that's a great positive thing. i've became a national figure as a result of defeats. i mean, the name to the factual i didn't was no residence beyond sammons as a result of the nature of violation. how comfortable was that label for you that you know that the man who lost bam and say, or was it the the past and who was done don't and lot of people rallied to your support because i feel really sad that i lost the election not so much for me, but for the labor party and party members who put their trust in me. but on the other hand, i think out of that defeat, i've taught to use my public profile to promote a whole range of human rights issues from free speech,

civil liberties to employment rights, to the rights of women, black and minority people. i've tried to use the platform for good you to your campaigning efforts domestically with conventional politics and the did until nationally. and that's what we're going to talk to. and the 2nd half of us exclusive into the me who was and i make no certainly no borders under my number t's as emerge. we don't have authority, we go to the back seen the whole world leads to take action and be ready. not until people are just, you know, come crisis,

we can do better, we should be better. everyone is contributing each in their own way. but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is paid for the response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we need together. oh, when i was wrong, when old joe don't rule out the thing because the after an engagement equal betrayal. when so many find themselves world apart, we choose to look for common ground in

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy plantation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. development only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful at the very critical time. time to sit down and talk me welcome back. alex is into being controversial human rights campaign. a pizza title. about his 50 years of activism which 1st affronted and then compelled the gaze of media and public alike. let me be frank. i don't think peter was always helping the church for 2000 years to be playing with the consent for a moral and we're going to burn in hell. the entrepreneur canterbury was interrupted today by a gay rights protest to carry opposers lead, engage human rights. he's

a bullying kind of trump trying to get his own way. oh man, i don't care about the gay man real man can talk with you. i got you. what keeps me going is the knowledge that the homophobes who are against me want me to give you a couple of goes that well it's called conventional pop the politics and elections . but the basically said in the 1980 sure you're real campaigning, f up. so beaten, and wider, mobilize ation weight of campaigns, domestically and internationally. looking by of these, which will show you was proud of me, have done so many, but which one do you say, right? i'm really glad i did that. well i'm, i'm pretty proud that i stays the 1st of a l g b plus protest in a communist country in east berlin. in 1973. i was interrogated and arrested by the starchy. but through that protest help take the ideas of gay,

the abrasion to the soviet block. and when i was there, i distributed thousands of secret underground leaflets, circulating the years afterward, the day's work. yeah. and it helped trigger the formation of some of the early underground l g b t plus movement in countries like east germany, czechoslovakia, hungry and so on. so i'm proud of that. i'm very proud of the 2 attempted citizens . the rest are president problem regardless, and bobby on charge of the torture. although i did not succeed the publicity about those attempt, help shine a spotlight on the human rights abuses that he was inflicting on his own people. well, let's talk about the night tonight tonight. them, so that was that said, a london hotel described the sucking sciences. what you saw waiting in the for you to, to post and how did you go about that? i got an almost tip off that present gobby was staying at a hotel near victoria station. so together with 3 other active as i lay in wait

outside, he so tell. and when he limousine drove out, we ran in front of it, forcing it to stop. and then i opened the re a car door and placed him under arrest. we then called the police and even though we showed the legal papers for his lawful arrest on the british and international law, we were arrested. and he was given a police escort to go christmas shopping at harris and had the president got to take a thought. but he would have been likes to some the opening is cause of the to think he was going to get shot. you should have seen the look on his face. his jaw dropped, his mouth opened, his eyes popped. i think he thought he was going to be killed, even though i held out both hands the show. i didn't have a weapon of the 2nd time you tried to arrest them in brussels. i mean was a case of all noise. hem again what, what happened then? the 2nd time when i tried to arrest him in the lobby of the hilton hotel in brussel,

initially he and his body, god thought, well, we should come up to congratulate him. i got right close, but as soon as i said he was under arrest, i was beaten up and eventually beaten unconscious by 40 god. was robert mc gabby as surprised as specific connie was to, to see you entering his pulpit. the case of george kerry on easter sunday myself and all the members of outrage. we had tried to get a meeting with the archbishop for 8 years. he wouldn't meet us with anybody from the eligibility community. so we thought we have to go to the cathedral and we're better than on easter sunday when the events is televised around the world to challenge you. and so that's why we walked into the pulpit and we simply called him out over his support for legal discrimination against l. g b plus people. he was not just saying that homosexuality was wrong and since he was saying the law of the land, you discriminate against them. did you get prosecuted under canon law?

no, i was prosecuted under the ecclesiastical court jurisdiction act of 18. 60, formerly part of the building up to 5051, which makes it illegal to interrupt a minister of religion in a place of worship. i could have got fined 5000 pounds and sent to prison for 6 months. but the magistrate accepted that the protest with 3 peaceful and respectful, and therefore he find me the prince, the sum of 18 pounds, 60 and what you're bound over. no, not bound over infested, didn't the reaction of the congregation because it was very hostile. it's a christian congregation and other aspects to the default, perhaps your christ in the temple. somebody might come to mind that people can be unpopular for making a protest at a particular time. and then right the spectrum history, judges it differently,

but but congregation. well, having another fit well, they were clapping to get you out of member correctly. but of course we did not interrupt any of the sacred parts of the service. we waited until dr. kerry sermon and i would say with justified on the grounds that what is more important the decorum of a church service or the human rights of people. and i would put human rights 1st. as we all know, jesus overturned tables in the temple. i'm no jesus, but certainly i think direct action, peaceful, non violence is justified to defend human rights, even in a church. looking back over that law p to fight to be there's some back, controversial things you've been engaged the lot because the subjects themselves are controversial. many if you have use, as we said mainstream. no, but the, the decision you made and others to people who were closet homosexuals,

that caused a lot of angst with in the gay community looking back because i need a grant saying, do you think that was the right course as well? well the way we saw it was that our thing was korea self defense. we were defending our community against people who were colluding with a homophobic church and were being hypocritical. you know, they were saying or supporting one thing in public, but doing something different in private. and that's your proxy. it's double standard and we believe it was right to call them out. the consequences of balancing were very positive. none of those bishop ever again said anything as far as i'm aware against the algebra plus community, and 2 of them eventually became allies and supported. you've had a consistent line in defense of free speech and not as brought you under attack from, from, or some trans activists. for example, when you've defended the right of traditional feminist to argue for a single sex spaces or the nature of that to be with the that type of debate effect,

you will almost live in that capital debate within the gay community. i can understand why trends people angry and i support them, you know. but i think the best way to defeat transfer via is not by ban though no plat. because that doesn't make the ideas go away. the best way is to challenge those people to put out rival speakers, to organize, protest outside their events, to show why they're wrong. it's not just no platforming. does that mean? much them to who questions? total acceptance of self identification from a divisional feminist viewpoint is suddenly labeled a transfer button on the social media your life prime as an act of a half century and more of spine. the period from traditional state protests to the suck, elated pamphlets of east germany, and i went to the, the social media age. i could see the console,

but should be no platform that should be cited was how much does that cost you? a son who's stood up for free speech. i do get a little stick from people who side on on. it's about a difference of tactics, not about principles or goals. and it is very hurtful. mean i do get a lot of hate mail from people who i thought well my l eyes and supporters box. on the other hand, i also get log support. and for me, the important thing which my mother taught me is i must stand up for what i believe to be right. i could be wrong, i accept that. but i am doing what i believe to be right on following my conscience . and that's all i think anybody can be expected to do that for the the big fellow coming up. give me your rally, some impressive cast list to your support. so you'd mckaylin was doing the interview. stephen fry speaking elton john as the executive producer. i mean, these are huge names. gratifying is it to, to see that sort of caster rallying to,

to your side of the look over the lifetime of protest. what is got to find to think that i've gone from the margins of the mainstream. it's great that you know, building on public figures understand that support my work. but of course the most important thing is the average person. and that's why i want them to see the film. their support is the most important to me. a couple more questions when live the aspect of you becoming mainstream of the views you pioneer personal costs back in the 908th is now becoming generally accepted. it's not what are you in this you'll this stablished will say, well that be a partial. he's alright, he'll be fine. we'll, we'll have them off demonstrate and again, press to, to turn off some international protest. he's already here. no, because they can accommodate his views of any sort of niggling. what are you for? you are not right or wrong. i'm staying through my principle and i'm still on the cutting edge on so many issues. you know,

we all expect political democracy. i'm asking, why can't we have economic democracy to? why can't we have employee and consumer representative on the board, the private companies and public institutions like the unit check. those people have knowledge and skills that could help make those institutions operate more effectively. it is also simply an issue of democracy and fantasy. a people looking back goodness, i mean, you'll hear what the federal campaign of bachelor and human rights activists of the 1st 3 years of, of protest. do you think, my goodness, has it been half essentially a more audience? like, what's the next camp in a fight? what's the next mountain? decline this bit of tactful survey. the presidency. i don't look back much, although the spilled hazy piece that she has for me to do so. but i'm always looking forward. well, whereas the next battle,

what's the next justice issue defies. and when so, you know, i'm ready for another 26 years. i'm 69 now. i'm looking forward to talking about 95. that case, peter will be sure to have you back in the show to tell us how you're getting on. that be great. and in the meantime, i hope everyone will remember, don't accept the will as it is dream of what the world could be and then help make it happen. a great way to finish. that is something it is this table about peter tactual style of campaigning uniquely his mom is to combine and re does things in a civil and courteous manner. that is no doubt that his actions have been designed to be deliberately provocative. there's no more sensitive, tame for english christians than eastern mass service and come to be cathedral russia jane. the welcome of 2018 would not wish to focus on writing checks while peasant, regardless did not expect to be the subject of

a citizen's arrest. getting his christmas shopping in london. however, part of the art of protest does depend on targeting the moment which are most precious to, to points, to publicize your message, and therefore, detracting from this. the thought explains why, despite his mouth manner, peter title has always provoked strong even violent reaction. above all, the pizza, tactile story, underlines a crucial importance of stamina and political campaigning from being the most badly treated candidate and violet and history. to his accolades, as the most hated man in betton, he knows to be the political landscape where many of his views that have guided as mainstream even conventional. whether this restless campaigners altogether comfortable with that new acceptance still remains to be seen. it would not be surprising if the mainstream media had to dust down there. i mean, headlines about peter tycho once again that for life and myself,

alex and all this to stay safe, i hope to see you all again next week. ah, me soon. the cheaper is something that costs right on police report on december 2020 a group of and he finishes fill out a film through access for 3 months. there's no like people organization, it's an idea that must be opposed that channel out the gate route. they make their faces, but they can say what they believe and we believe in helping our community. we

believe that fascism is one of the major threats to the united states has gotten driven. this is a chance to see who and teeth are really are in order for me. my 1st amendment right and say that my life matter. i have to be onto the teachers that we can't trust the police. we can't trust the government. we can't trust anyone except ourselves to protect ourselves in awe. news . oh, what else? seems wrong. why don't we just don't rule out the thing because after an engagement equal betrayal,

when so many find themselves world apart, we choose to look for common ground. always be polite, never engage with an aggravated or confrontational office. don't get into any conversation to start answering questions. just ask for an attorney to survive and interrogation. you've gotta be ready. you're definitely don't want to be going to throw in a jump. so one cups you're more likely to walk free. if you're rich and guilty, you are, if you're poor you got 2 eyes and 2 ears and one mouth. so you should be seeing and hearing a whole lot more than you're saying, if you don't take that advice, usually going to dig yourself

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