me the me emotion learning a lot of stories going on in the course of action just for ortho. gotcha. ah good position. we think he might be a soldier. if he's off the boot she's wearing you twitched up. took a personal opinion was on this, you're still watching the police police i when i was shot the wrong one all through just don't room yes. to fill out the scene because the after an engagement

equals the trail. when so many find themselves, well, the part we choose to look for common ground in the with with the hello and welcome across all things considered. i'm peter lavelle, russia china relations are strong and getting deeper. we are told this is dangerous for the washington lead world. is it? why are moscow in beijing moving closer together? did the miscalculations of the washington consensus? have anything to do with it? is the china russia alliance made it america?

ah, the cross talking russia china relations. i'm joined by my guess lynch and she yang in geneva. he is a professor of international history and politics at the graduate institute of international and development studies engineer. but in israel we have john gong, he is a professor at the university of international business in economics. and here in moscow were joined by alexander luke, and he is head of the department of international relations at the higher school of economics or gentlemen cross talk roles. and in fact, that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciated when she and jenny, but let me go to you 1st year. i've been observing it for many, many years, the growing relationship closer, relationship that russia and china had. and it was, you know, a few years ago it was murmurings people met and mentioned in western media. and now all of a sudden they're in panic mode is if this suddenly happened. well,

this hasn't suddenly happened. it's been happening for a very long time. and a, the, this, russia gave hope that the u. s. has gone through and much of the western world. they have just been oblivious to how the international stage is changing and the rapid miss of that change. and suddenly they wake up and say, oh my goodness, are you surprised by this? go ahead in geneva. oh, i'm not surprised at all. god has lot to do with the american mentality towards russia. in particular, since the end of the cold war, basically, united states thought, well, unipolar world is coming there, you know, russia is defeated. also, the unit was defeated during the cold war. so, the united states really did not take russia seriously. and the even belittle russia's contribution to the decisive end of the cold war. so i think this is

a mentality american registration. the past quite many of them entertained, including obama himself. so in that sense, what obama is used to say, this is a 2nd rate country, we don't take him to seriously. so what's interesting now is that at least i believe biden's administration began to take russia more seriously. so in that sense, in terms of psychology, terms of mentality, maybe there is midland, she may african, real quickly. are they taking russia more seriously because of the russia china relationship? it is growing because i think that's the case. part of it, part of it, part of it. for sure. yes for sure. or let me listen is let me go to john in israel here. i mean, we just heard from luncheon that you know, the, the american, so take russia very seriously, but they don't,

they can't seem to stop talking about russia every single day. i mean, you, it's like keystone cops and james bond. you can have them both at the same time. they are obsessed with russia, but they are beginning to really fear china. and because of their, their projection again smote both it's help bring the 2 countries together, which makes perfect logical sense to me, go ahead, john and israel in the us holding you watch a battle most rival standby to some extent. so, you know, this attitude was long time for over time to come to realize that it cannot be perspective on a national perspective. china is why i didn't buy rapidly in terms of g t p, for example, trying today is about 70 percent of us. washer is very small. and

there's a famous saying from the x just said that marcia was basically, you guess they say in a masculine, is they should actually said, right? so i think this increasing concern was that the it doesn't competition. i will not a point, but as a kind of just spark. so how many companies do you think the china and some of them are a warranty? might do. so it says host countries are becoming marcos. national interest is trying to do i go where

you're trying to restore to some extent that i'm looking at was you saying? i think it's alex center. this wedge issue. this keeps coming up here. i don't see any wedge whatsoever, because you have particularly from washington, an enormous amount of antipathy towards russia. we just recently had a summit which was kind of a stalemate in my opinion, over all which sometimes that's not a bad thing here. but, you know, when you, when you see the, the nato, nato meeting recently, the g 7. and it's all really about china, china, china, ok. and the americans are obsessed with russia, but the rest of, with russia and china at the same time, the europeans are a little bit more in between here. i don't see how they can divide russian china

when they're both being the target of aggressive rhetoric at the very least from the us. go ahead, alexander well, when americans, i mean, the american elite is stuck in about russia or china. they actually don't talk above them, the real russia try this. there's a like run through symbols in the internal pool. so the main idea was for a long time after then what profess loan said union for period or unity paula moment was, this is going to become an age of your new priority. it will be there forever. so as o a d o, just they is the american elite, i would say they rejected sex, rejected for a long time. the fact that russia and china was coming to the other and was forming

a kind of defect to alliance in eurasia, which wasn't used to be a nightmare to such. jo jo, political thinkers like june sky or right you soon who, who are not so crow russian, i must say so. but after the collapse of the soviet union, this was the idea and the mainstream thinking was that russia and china were like, it does mess and they could not to come too close together because there is differences because china is a danger for russian. so, but now the mood is changing. there are some people who, who talk in the united states about parallel identity in the russian, china that like values are coming closer together in the end. and then this is a problem. so this is why, by the way,

why by them chose to meet the russian president because there were several articles including like show journals like for in the fairs that which we're saying that now this is a problem, russian chinese refresh money. the problem is in danger. for the united states, and we should do something about about it, perhaps somehow the way them and you know, by, by being but doing something for russia but, but there's always, americans don't want to give russia anything in return there. they're only talking . yes, you probably know the well yes. center i think it's more than just talking. san sanctions, sanctions and sanctions. that's not talk. but that telling you it's telling the russians and setting them a signal here. let me to go back to geneva here. you know, when they, they talk about, you know, the, the problem,

how problematic it is for russian chinese to be allies. i don't see it at all because russia and china rejects this rules based order. nonsense. they look at international law because rules based order. it's all the rules are made in washington and beijing and moscow say that's not true. and we can say no. go ahead in geneva. well, yes, i do think that social looking is right on that. they are talking about imaginary china and russia, so therefore they imagine the russia and the china still a somehow inferior i'm the to, to losh, see off the western values on they call the universal value, which is ironic because of the i always is, i written the books criticising the concept of the universal value. the original meaning of universal value means catholicism in the middle ages. i think even

catholicism split into 2 in the end. right. so yes, but americans, in particular, the, the, the policy talk attitude towards russia and china is driven primarily by a spartan gallery and thinking, which is so called the decline. the west thinking is declining. isn't that is driving that kind of hysteria. and the fantasy about china, russia now with china, i would add even something more that there was a racial side of it, thus the yellow peril. so you have spangler yellow peril. yeah. the china become far more dangerous than russia. in that sense, in the mentality. i can also throw, i could throw in orientalism as well as we're going to get academic, you know. yeah, i know, i'm very know, because for the last 500 years the western world is,

is big basically determined the terms of engagement around the globe and suddenly that is coming to an end and they read a complete loss. and what should, how could this possibly happen? because they, their missionary messianic message is for all time, but it's not empire, it's rising fall. that's the the arc of history here, right? gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break out about your break. we'll continue our discussion on russia. china relations. stay with our team. the me i i don't think that costs right on police reports and all have in december 2020 a group of anti finishes. fill out a film crew access for 3 months. there's no like if people organization,

it's an idea that must be opposed to the game ground, they make their faces. but they can say what they believe and we believe in helping our community. we believe that fascism is one of the major threats to the united states. as gotten grooven, this is a john to see who and teeth are really are in order for me. my 1st amendment right . and say that my life matter, i have to be onto the teeth. we can't trust the police, we can't trust the government. we can't trust anyone except or so to protect ourselves. in awe. is your media a reflection of reality? the in a world transformed what will make you feel safer? tyson lation community. are you going the right way or are you being

direct? what is true? what is faith in the world corrupted? you need to this end. the so join us in the depths will remain in the shallows. ah ah, welcome back to cross talk. we're all things considered. i'm peter labelle. your mind you were discussing russia, china relations. ah, ah. ok, let's go back to john in israel, john, there's a lot of talk about a strategic alliance of including russia in china here. now it's my understanding here is that neither russia or china, constitutionally legally speaking,

domestically, can be in a military alliances. but is that something that is turning into reality if it's, if it's not formally announced? because i mean, it's interesting how nato is targeted. russia is a threat and also their quote unquote concerned about china, which again is, draws russian chinese together speak to strategic possibly military relationship is when is that? is it already happening and what would it take for it to happen? go ahead, john to come in a strategic relationship, a large relationship. i think the official phrase for comprehend your relationship in china has a couple countries going to have the strong relationship. i think china cautious about, you know, to see the trade as

a strategic align suggested. because at the end of the day, both countries, accommodations were actually much larger than with 2 countries that were capital trades almost. and what i was trying to get in business with sounded stays even more recently, you know, you can union. so i think at the end of the day would be extremely has to be categorized. wes, this kind of this is something i'm just trying to avoid. so when you graduate in the country seem to this, which doesn't want in the 1st place. so i don't know why

it's, it's a metric. no, absolutely not. well, i mean, wait, what's interesting here, let me turn alexander here in moscow is that, you know, be under the bible administration. it's the democratic world against the top cruces, and tyranny and all of that, which again, you know, it's focusing on, on, on china and russia. though i wouldn't use that the cock receive, i think it to actually cartoonish the witt. what's coming out of a lincoln state department here. but alexander, i want to ask you a question. a comes up all of the time. is that, and any kind of strong relationship, bilateral relationship, the, there is the claim and it's done despairingly obviously, is it, russia will be the junior member of the, of that relationship. how do you address it? i don't think it's it means anything. and i think it's actually quite meaning list, but that is something that it's always thrown out there. russia will be the junior partner, hardy react to that. russia?

well, it depends on what's, what's your initial of june the apartment and if it's good or bad, for example, in nature or in european union, we have big countries and small countries like, i don't know, france is much larger than belgium, but they are members of the same alliance, and i don't think they see each other's a threat. so at the moment, i would say live, there are no any formal or official these bones between the russian and chinese interests. for example, sean chi corporation organization, the russia and china, they contributed to the budget, the same amount of money, while other countries pay less and it is very strictly observed in any tree commuted to russia and china. the equality

principle. also, if we're talking about the some countries dependent on another, it basically means that the other one makes the country do something that it doesn't like. this does not exist in the russian chinese partnership. but saying this, we can say also this chinese a much larger country in terms of population. the economy is about 10 times larger than the russia, and then the sentence continues. well, it wouldn't be necessarily uncomfortable relationship, but china may well gradually have more influence in the world than russian. i think that russia should think about this. yeah, let's go back to geneva. but one of the things that i find interesting and least at the moment here, is that neither russia or china have any aspirations to export any kind of

economic or political or ideological model. i mean, that's another thing that kind of brings them together because the, you know, the, you with the washington consensus is basically me or nipple meal, liberal ideology. and if you don't believe in that id, ology are either inferior or you're a threat, or you're both in russia and china, have to their advantage of not seeing the world through an ideological once again, i will state this, they mean they may be the most common denominator here, rely upon international law, not an ideological prism to decide how the world should be arranged. go ahead in geneva. yes, but the united states in particular, and less so in europe today. still see the world in the black and white. i call to me, which of course is very much christian view of the world. so it's difficult, you know, to dispel that kind of way of thinking. so it's,

i think that russians, china emphasize on whatever it applies to your countries on the model or whatever regime the system domestic system, it should fit to be your own culture and the history. ok. russia, this not necessarily have the same system in china, but to china also has to learn, you know, the, the good part of the, of the other people system. so this is the, you know, different mentality. united states who causes in my views last defender of the european enlightenment, also doxey. well, i go so badly. oh, yeah. i the, i think i think it can be, it's a bit ironic here because you have your, you have this very bizarre trends coming out of the united states. a called woke. is them in post modernism. i mean, it's right now you're right. i agree with you,

i think it's a very good observation, but there will be others like myself that would saying is that the united states is leading the destruction of western culture and civilization, which in a very, very competitive international environment probably shouldn't be a good thing to do, i'm what i'm obviously making a reference to the anchorage summit that was a trade rec for the us. when they had the, the chinese representative was repeating talking points from the democrats. very clever or very clever gambit. i must say. ok, but it does come home here, john, let me go to you. i mean, where is this relationship going? because one thing again, i want to talk. everyone likes to talk about the differences between russia and china. of course, there are different countries, different cultures, etc. but they have a lot in common, and they're, they, what's in common is the lack of trust in the west, particularly the russians don't have much competence with nature won't expand. we

promise you, we don't need to write it all down and then look what happened. ok then for spree, gene change in ukraine colored revolutions on its borders here. and you and you'd be expect the russian who keep leaving the state department, they don't anymore. and i think china as a keen observer, watching what's happened in the 20th century in the middle east. you know, is this a partner you want to deal with this? going to be honest with you. i don't think so. ok. i mean, just being an observer of international affairs, it's better to trust your neighbor. that doesn't lie, do you all of the time, then to a believe in the in treaties of capitalists from washington. go ahead, john. i think most countries are going to relationship very carefully at the same time, not to be sliding into military alliance scenario. but i think this movement very much depends on washington. this is the

direction it will move fast direction or you don't think it might not be interesting overall. how strongly do you feel about this database system? i want to make a comment on someone that's interested in promoting hope that the model was we don't want to messages some b o y suits of our different i think it was a problem by now leaving so just showing the diamond handling the shines in the background was a total of many aspects and also against the backdrop of washington being preaching

that it's all liberal gospel. do. many big changes fell. so i think the mostly afraid of that. and 2nd, i think what is also going to, you know, just to try this message that we are actually not interested promoting model. they just do this as a sort of a gap tool. something that we can use to basically almost regarding the g 7 regarding everything you want to do, it can come up and say, look, try them mostly coming from this package that you will continue to emphasize is let me give alexander the last 30 seconds here. i agree with john, the world isn't just the g 7 the world. this isn't nato, the world just isn't the you. the world is changing,

and i think china and russia understand that far better than people in washington last 32nd. see you alex, and go ahead. well, it's quite an interesting situation when the united states wants to tear away russia from china. and this was one of the reason that by then decided to talk finally to russia. i think it's not very possible to do that. would be one this especially taking into consideration that they don't give, give russia anything for that, but at least understood that you should speak. i hope both to russia and china, that the world of very read the co conflict is not in the interest of any but all right, that's fine. i agree, and i think the biden people are a day late in the buck short my want to thank my guest in geneva, israel, and here in moscow. and what i think our viewers for watching us here at our to see

you next time. and remember, cross talk roles the ah, so to the good police 30, the good news hope other than the remain russell. while i go over the over the book, release the hold up just sort of the motion learning in the senior course. procure me a message to mrs. barbara. gotcha. ah melissa position. we think he might be

a soldier. if he's off the boot, she's wearing your twitched up, took a personal stuff, which was the, the new one on this, you're still watching, please. i always be polite. never engage with an aggravated or confrontational office. don't get into any conversation to start answering questions. just ask for an attorney to survive and interrogation, you've gotta be ready to stand your ground. definitely don't want to be going to trial in the jump suit, one cups. you're more likely to walk free. if you're rich and guilty, you are. if you're poor and you got 2 eyes and 2 ears and one mouth.

so you should be seeing and hear and a whole lot more than you're saying. if you don't take that advice, usually going to date yourself a whole you must also establish dialogue for russia. applause in germany at the prospect of improving relations with russia. then while some other states remain skeptical. the delta strain of covey 19 is set to account for almost all new infections in europe. the thing though, by late august studies the protection of the blocks diseases agency incomes are made rising daily cases in the u. k. 2 people arrested in better. i was following the controversial diversion of ron f flight last month. they moved to house arrest . but developing story this bel original position jim listened is russian go for.