the the disturbing images from the german city of verse, berg way, knife wielding attack, or killed 3 people and leaves another stick injured before being detained by police . up to you figures and states resist calls from the european power houses in france and germany for a political summit with russia. it is more important to maintain this agenda on russia tied to the universe as division that makes us we go and the you is also split on whether to force british tourists to quarantine with france and germany leaving calls for the restrictions and the piling pressure on tourist

hotspots in southern europe to do the same. 0 headlines, a full look at your news. fresh look at that coming up now and now. what you are to international lead time with the ah, with ah. hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, russia china relations are strong and getting deeper. we are told this is dangerous for the washington lead world. is it? why are moscow in beijing moving closer together? did the miscalculations of the washington consensus? have anything to do with it is the china russia alliance made in america, the

cross talking russia, china relations. i'm joined by my guess mentioned she yang in geneva. he is a professor of international history and politics at the graduate institute of international and my studies engineer. but in israel we have john gong. he is a professor at the university of international business and economics. and here in moscow were joined by alexander luke, and he is head of the department of international relations at the higher school of economics or a gentleman, cross talk roles and effects. that means it can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciated when she is in geneva, let me go to you 1st year. i've been observing it for many, many years, the growing relationship closer, relationship that russia and china had. and it was, you know, a few years ago it was murmurings people mitten mentioned in western media. and now all of a sudden they're in panic mode is if this suddenly happened. well, this hasn't suddenly happened. it's been happening for a very long time. and a,

the, this, russia gave hope that the u. s. has gone through and much of the western world. they have just been oblivious to how the international stage is changing and the rapid miss of that change. and suddenly they wake up and say, oh my goodness, are you surprised by this? go ahead in geneva. oh, i'm not surprised at all. god has a lot to do with the american mentality towards russia, in particular, since the end of the cold war, basically united states thought, well, unipolar world is coming there. you know, russia is defeated. soviet union was defeated during the cold war. so the united states really did not take russia seriously and the even, belittle rushes contribution to the decisive end of the cold war. so i think this is a mentality american restoration the past, quite many of them. and they're attend,

including obama himself. so in that sense, what obama is used to say, this is a 2nd rate country we don't take into seriously. so what's interesting now is that at least i believe biden administration began to take russia more seriously. so in that sense, in terms of psychology, terms of mentality, maybe there is midland, she may african, real quickly. are they taking russia more seriously because of the russia china relationship? it is growing because i think that's the case. part of it, part of it, part of it. for sure. yes for sure. or let me listen is let me go to john in israel here. i mean, we just heard from luncheon that you know, the, the american, so take russia very seriously, but they don't, they can't seem to stop talking about russia every single day. i mean, you, it's like keystone cops and james bond. you can have them both at the same time.

they are obsessed with russia, but they are beginning to really fear china. and because of their, their projection again smote both it's help bring the 2 countries together, which makes perfect logical sense to me, go ahead, john and israel. well, in the us it was a most rival standby to some extent. so, you know, this attitude was long time over time to come to realize that the cannot be perspective from a national power perspective. china is very rapidly in terms of g. t p for trying today is about 70 percent of us. washer is very small and there's a famous saying from x,

i'm just state prison who system russia was basically, you guess they say in a masculine, is they should say, right? so i think there's increasing concern was that the trailer poses a more competition to at this point, but kind of just spark. so the company coming on the other things to try to as far as and some of them i want to do my view. so says host countries of the coming and the other. marcos national interest is trying to do i go, which is something to

restore to some extent that i'm looking at was you saying? i think it's so much alex enter this wedge issue. this keeps coming up here. i don't see any wedge whatsoever, because you have, particularly from washington, an enormous amount of antipathy towards russia. we just recently had a summit which was kind of a stalemate in my opinion over all which sometimes that's not a bad thing here. but, you know, when you, when you see the, the nato, nato meeting recently, the g 7, it's all really about china, china, china, ok. and the americans are obsessed with russia, but the rest of, with russia and china at the same time, the europeans are a little bit more in between here. i don't see how they can divide russian china when they're both being the target of aggressive rhetoric at the very least from

the us. go ahead, alexander well, when americans, i mean, the american elite is stuck in about russia or china. they actually don't talk above them, the real russia try this. there's a like run through symbols in the internal pool. so the main idea was for a long time after the profess loan said union for period unity paula moment was, this is going to become an age of nuclear gene. it will be there forever. so, as o a d o, just they and the american elite, i would say they rejected facts. the rejected for a long time. the fact that russia and china was coming to the other and was forming a kind of defect to alliance in eurasia, which wasn't used to be

a nightmare to such. jo jo, political thinkers like june sky or right you soon who, who are not so crow russian, i must say so. but after the collapse of the soviet union, this was the idea and the mainstream thinking was that russia and china were like, it does mess and they could not to come too close together because there is differences because china is a danger for russian. so, but now the mood is changing. there are some people who, who talk in the united states about parallel identity in the russian, china that like values are coming closer together in the end. and then this is a problem. so this is why, by the way, why by them chose to meet the russian president because there were several

articles including like show journals like for in the fairs this, which were saying that now this is a problem, russian chinese refresh money. the problem is in danger. for the united states, and we should do something about about it, perhaps somehow the way them and you know, by, by being doing something for russia but, but as well as americans don't want to give russia anything in return there. they're only talking. yes, you probably know the 12 yes. wow. like center. i think it's more than just talking . san sanctions, sanctions and sanctions. that's not talk that. but telling you it's telling the russians and sending them a signal here. let me to go back to geneva here. you know, when they, they talk about, you know, the, the problem, how problematic it is for russia and china to be allies. i don't see it at all because russia and china rejects this rules based order. nonsense. they look at

international law because rules based order. it's all the rules are made in washington and basing and moscow say that's not true. and we can say no. go ahead in geneva. well, yes, i do think that social looking is right on that. they are talking about imaginary china and russia, so therefore they imagine the russia and china a still a somehow inferior and the to, to large. you see the western values on they called the universal value, which is ironic because the, i always just written the books criticising the concept of universal value. the original meaning of universal value means catholicism in the middle ages. i think even catholicism split into 2 in the end. right. so, yes, but americans,

in particular the, the, the policy towards attitudes was russia and china is driven primarily by a button gallery and thinking which is so called the decline to west thinking. it's a decline in is that it's a driving that kind of hysteria and the fantasy about china, russia now with china, i would add even something more that there was a racial side of it. that's the yellow peril. so you have a regular yellow pero. we have the china become far more to interest than russia. in that sense, in the mentality. i could, i could also throw, i could throw in orientalism as well as we're going to get academic, you know. yeah, i know i'm very now because for the last 500 years, the western world is as big basically determined the terms of engagement around the globe. and suddenly that is coming to an end and they read

a complete loss. and what, how could this possibly happen? because they, their missionary missy on a message is for all time, but it's not empire, it's rise and fall. that's but maybe the archive history here. right? gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break out about your break. we'll continue our discussion of russia, china relation, stay with r t the the for the 1st 9 months, there was no improvement in the virus. it jumped out fully made. now that is a real sign of what's called gain a function work with and gain a function where you take a virus, you want to make it more lethal. so you're exposed to you and i, mice, it makes many, many, many, many, many cycles. and so few months you get something that appears to have evolved over the years. and the fact that this one, this came out was all ready adapted for the human transmission. it's again,

an unprecedented who's responding will be necessarily need budget yet about the target. but again, jack in john's island is died. i'm ready to go the most difficult to find the but there are 410 days right on the bank of the work under water chemical lives and has are, this is going to develop a new mon, their international market that these industries that polluting you simply ignore

in one days, that high fence mother and when we loved them other than the means we lost the in the the i welcome back across stock were all things considered? i'm peter labelle. your mind you were discussing russia, china relations. ah, ah. okay, let's go back to john in israel, john, there's a lot of talk about a strategic alliance of including russia in china here. now it's my understanding said, neither russia or china, constitutionally legally speaking, domestically can be in a military alliances. but is that something that is turning into reality

a bit if it's not formally announced that because, i mean, it's interesting how nato is targeted. russia is a threat and also their quote unquote concerned about china, which again is, draws russian chinese together speak to the strategic possibly military relationship is when is that? is it already happening and what would it take for it to happen? go ahead, john o, be cautious to come to a strategic relationship, live relationship. i think the official phrase for comprehend your relationship in china has a couple countries going to have this strong relationship, i think most trying to you know, to see the trade as a strategic align suggested. because at the end of the day, both countries,

accommodations were actually much larger than with 2 countries that were capital trades. and what i was trying to get in business with sounded stays even more recently, you know, you can union. so i think at the end of the day would be extremely has to be capitalized. yes, wes, this kind of this is something i'm just trying to avoid. so i'll talk about graduating the countries into this, which doesn't want in the 1st place. so i don't know why it's, it's a metric. no, absolutely not. well, i mean, wait,

what's interesting here, let me turn alexander here in moscow is that you know, the, under the bible administration, it's the democratic world against the top cruces and tyranny. and all of that, which again, you know, it's focusing on, on, on china and russia though i witten use that the cock receive. i think it to actually cartoonish the witt. what's coming out of a lincoln state department here. but alexander, i want to ask you a question, a comes up all of the time. is that, and any kind of strong relationship, bilateral relationship, the, there is the claim and it's done despairingly, obviously, is it? russia will be the junior member of the, of that relationship. how do you address it? i don't think it's, it means anything, and i think it's actually quite meaning list, but that is something that it's always thrown out there. russia will be the junior partner, hardy react to that. russia? well, it depends on what's, what's your initial of june the apartment and if it's good or bad, for example,

in nature or in european union, we have big countries and small countries like, i don't know, france is much larger than belgium, but they are members of the same length, and i don't think they see each other is a threat. so at the moment, i would say there are no any formal or official dis bones between the russian and chinese interests. for example, sean chi corporation organization, the russia and china, they contributed to the budget, the same amount of money, while other countries pay less. and it is very strictly observed in any tree committed to russia and china. the equality principle. also,

if we're talking about the some countries dependent on another, it basically means that the other one makes that country do something that it doesn't like this does not exist in the russian chinese partnership. but saying this, we can say also this chinese a much larger country in terms of population. the economy is about 10 times larger than the russia. and then this tendency continues. well, it wouldn't be necessarily uncomfortable relationship, but china may well gradually have more influence in the world than russian. i think that russia should think about this. yeah, let's go back to geneva. but one of the things that i find interesting, at least at the moment here, is that neither russia or china have any aspirations to export any kind of economic or political or ideological model. i mean, that's another thing that kind of brings them together because the, you know, the,

you with the washington consensus is basically me or nipple meal, liberal ideology. and if you don't believe in that id, ology are either inferior or you're a threat, or you're both in russia and china, have to their advantage of not seeing the world through an ideological once again, i will state this, they mean they may be the most common denominator here, rely upon international law, not an ideological prism to decide how the world should be arranged. go ahead in geneva. yes, but the united states in particular, and less so in europe today. still see the world in the black and white. i call to me, which of course is very much christian view of the world. so it's difficult, you know, to dispel that kind of way of thinking. so it's,

i think that russians, china emphasize on whatever it applies to your countries on the model or whatever regime the system domestic system. it should fit to be your own culture and the history russia, this not necessarily have the same system and then china. but to china also has to learn, you know, the, the good part of the, of the other people's system. so this is the, you know, different mentality. united states of courses in my view is the last defender of the european enlightenment, also doxey. well, i think, oh so yeah, i, i think i think it can be, it's a bit ironic here because you have your, you have this very bizarre trends coming out of the united states. a called woke ism and postmodernism. i mean, it's right now you're right. i agree with you, i think it's a very good observation,

but there will be others like myself that would saying is that the united states is leading the destruction of western culture and civilization, which in a very, very competitive international environment probably shouldn't be a good thing to do what i mean, obviously making a reference to the anchorage summit that was a trade rec for the us. when they had the, the chinese representative was repeating talking points from the democrats. very clever, very clever gambit. i must say. ok. but it, it does come home here, john, let me go to you. i mean, where is this relationship going? because one thing again, i want to talk. everyone likes to talk about the differences between russia and china. of course, there are different countries, different cultures, etc. but they have a lot in common, and they're what's going common is the lack of trust in the west, particularly the russians don't have much competence with nato won't expand, we promise you, we don't need to write it all down and then look what happened. ok then for regime

change in ukraine, color revolutions on its borders here. and you and you'd be expect the russian who keep leaving the state department, they don't anymore. and i think china as a keen observer, watching what's happened in the 20th century in the middle east. you know, is this a partner you want to deal with? that's going to be honest with you. i don't think so. okay. i mean, just being an observer of international affairs, it's better to trust your neighbor. that doesn't lie, do you all of the time, then to a believe in the in treaties of capitalists from washington. go ahead, john. i think most countries are going to or issue very carefully at the same time, not to be sliding to military alliance scenario. but i think this very much depends on washington as well. if they're wanting to push this direction through a more direction or you think it might not be interesting

overall, you know this database system. i want to make a comment on someone that's interested in promoting hope. oh, we don't want to messages and b o, y suits of our different people to be just what is the problem. i said that it's leaving so just showing the handling the shines in the background was a total failure many aspects and also against the backdrop of washington being preaching that it's all liberal gospel,

do many of the country and it fell. so i think the mostly afraid of that. and 2nd, i think what is also going to, you know, just to try this message that we are actually not interested promoting model. they just do this as a sort of a tool, something that you can use through basically almost everything regarding the g 7 regarding everything you want to do, they can come up and say, give it a try. i think mostly coming from this package that you will continue to emphasize is let me give alexander the last 30 seconds here. it's. i agree with john. the world isn't just a g 7. the world. this isn't nato. the world just isn't the you. the world is changing, and i think china and russia understand that far better than people in washington

last 30 seconds. see you alex, and go ahead. well, is quite an interesting situation when the united states wants to tear away russia from china. and this was one of the reason that by them decided to talk finally to russia. i think it's not very possible to do that when they want this, especially taking into consideration that they don't give russia anything for that . but at least understood that you should speak, i hope both to russia and china, that the world over very read, the co conflict is not in the interest of any but all right. that's going to i agree and i think the buying people are a day late in the buck short my want to thank my guest in geneva, israel, and here in moscow, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our to see you next time and remember, cross talk roles the

news. join me every thursday on the alex simon show. and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politics sport. business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. me the the the the the ah, ah,

the the so to the police 30 that can each who whether the know the mean russell but i so but over the over the book or just sort of the motion learning a lot of stories going i suppose in the course procure message to mrs for barbara. gotcha. ah good position. we think he might be a soldier because of the boot she's wearing your twitched up. took

a personal opinion was on this you're still watching, please. ah, me the the the the the the the the job i'm not.