particularly in the wake of accusations over a wound, lab leak and weak genocide. nevertheless, communist china is the only major economy that hit record economic growth in the 1st quarter of this year. amidst the current pandemic. joining me now for a special show from shanghai, venture capitalist and political scientist. eric lee, thanks so much eric for coming on. the g stands for a group, but i don't know whether you think it could stand for globalization. you said before that globalized door globalism, injected globalization is dead, has been dead for a while. was the g 7 basically another funeral? well, thank you for having the i will call the funeral. it, it's, it's a small party. listen, i grew up my high school. i went to big high school, 300 kids just in my class a little if you want have a party with just 7 people you could do. that's okay.

but i tell you these, these guys, so i didn't go very far in life. maybe go a far life because they wanted to nationalist enough. well no, they were 2 exclusive to too much into themselves and they thought they were hot. they were bullies and they could run the world was much larger than that. and you've said that you can trace the current society as, as configured in western europe to, to new liberal reforms. after the fall of the berlin wall, you see one of us wades of the world, has basically failed. they failed western europe has failed. the 28th crash. i think you said that china failed to understand quite how cataclysmic, the so called western economic crisis was that we're still living with today

despite the impact of the panoramic. well, i think it all transpired at the end of the cold war and as we all know, america and west one, the war are somewhat disturbing. union last cold war. since then, i think western society has gone on and india logic cope who say within their own country, they thought they got the magic formula, which is global, or liberalism, taking around the world liberal market economics. electoral democracy, all these things they think is what made them succeed. and they're gonna universalize and push it to the extreme in their own countries. and that led to the neo liberal doctrine, both economically and politically and socially, if you will. and i think i have run the ground in the past 10 years. they've

gone too far and left to great unraveling of their own societies and a large number of bathrooms, the country that adopted those values. and those systems are not succeeding. developing countries amongst developing countries, post cold war china is the only major country that had really prosper and delivered for a large number of people. delivered to them a better life in the world. and the analysis that you'll see in the west for that is because it abandon socialism. i understand you said actually the years between 949 and 979 of state socialism were the fundamentals upon which the chinese 21st century was built. this is,

this is being evolution from the time of the creation of the people's republic. well, yeah, i had said that and i think you know, people miss and miss. since through the history of modern china, they tend to divide it into the 1st 30 years. and their mouth to about late in the shopping market reform, which china to what it is today. but i've always said that without the 1st year, the 2nd that the market with mom would not have been in the 1st 30 years. obviously we had a lot of problems and a lot of mistake, but it was in the 1st 30 years, we took go like expectancy in 1949 valley about 40. i think what, what do you want? you and i live, i live life expectancy in 1949 when people to publish mounted to already in the late sixty's. in the late 1967, i think like

a literacy rate i went from negligible to over 80 percent among young people. in emily, 970 industrial base was built in the 1st 30 years and more importantly, national independence china acquired by wow. nobody could invite it and that allowed it to pursue it. after the 1st 30 years that the people at the public shopping the warms, were successful in many ways because the foundation was late in the 1st 30 years. and profound. you've argued has been the relationship between political power and capital. you claim that will these g 7 leaders in capital exerts disproportionate influence over politics here in britain, in nature, countries. whereas in china, capitalists just don't have that power. well,

i'm a capitalist. i got no power in the medical power anyway. so be, i think what has gone astray in the west in america and maybe in europe and you case who is after the cold war. they've gone on the new liberal path where capital has the interest in capital have risen above the interests of the nation. so capital began to pay politics and they looked after their interest. so that's how you see the wealth capital in society. and solidified authentication in america and western side. and indeed, equality has exploded their food banks down the street. for me here, remind us what is the precise difference between capitalism in nato,

the liberal country and capitalism. in china, we don't have capitalism. we have a market economy, we do have capital, and we have people like me will manage capitalism. to me, means a market economy that you managed in a way that it generate efficient time allocated. we thought efficiently. ok, capital is to meaning somehow capital the interest of capital rise above the interest of the friday of the whole and they capture the process for their own benefit and that we don't want in the country. you've often extol the virtues of merit socratic, communist party, congress, the definition. philosophically of meritocracy, easy and equality. do you don't see the dangers of the increase in the inequality in china? not just because of how successfully the in terms of market the economics china is

become because of the system itself based on marital chrissy. well, i've always said that china is in has america craddick governance, but i never called merit talk to see. i think there's an important distinction there. credit governance, me able people raise can rise through the ranks and become decision makers. and that's what what medic medical governing me though you want capable people or test it through the years. and just like a good company, you will have people that are capable, your hire them at the bottom, and they move through their track record, and you give them our responsibility and how, that's how it government should work. and you see the future in china, in terms of combat to equality, a return to some of the more socialist marxist principles that have arguably been

lost. well, yes i, in the past we've seen a great transformation of china last 9 to 10 years. the, i think the paradigm shift occurred in 2012 with the 18 party congress. and china had shifted from the 30 or 40 years prior to that, which was the headlong pursuit be comic well at whatever the cost actually. and that we're shifting away from that towards what's called more balance, well balance development, which really mean a common prosperity and more equitable society. so there are a lot of side effects of market nomics that we had for food for any qualities. one of them environmental degradation is another, an odd and corruption was another. so all these issues needs to be addressed. and i

think there's been a, a great transformation where the chinese society in china self perception and the national aspiration of the chinese people in my generation, especially among young people in my generation. we were primarily concerned about china impor and lacking about on. but if you ask younger generation autobahn post 994-2000 there, 34 in your minimum, by the way there, of course they want economic opportunities, but their primary concerns are about any quality and sustainable sustainability for the future. so if you're a viewer in a nato country watching this interview, you're going to be thinking, hang on a minute. china is responsible for genocide every other day we hear about this alleged genocide in gene jang. and arguably, arguably a connected to china's lack of interventionism given it's afghan,

has done the chinese officials now talk about and you have no free press and you're not allowed to. the chinese people is 400000000 young people. they're not allowed to understand the history of civilizations from all different points of view. or what sort of society is that? well, if that's what they want to believe, they can believe. if that's true, china is going nowhere. if that's true, china would never have achieved that. they have already, if he you know, the young chinese view, extraordinary knowledgeable about the world. and that's the fact that we have the post money for 2000 generations. extremely lifelong about wikipedia. is that great? but i mean, we compete is banned in china. yeah. but, well, basically you'll get cnn. let me,

let me give you one example. ok. i'm so sorry. sorry. yeah, that's, yeah. but listen. i think that the year before 2019 alone about a 120 a 130000000 chinese people went abroad and came back the largest tory outbound part of the country in the world by far so. so to say that somehow chinese people don't know about what's going on in the world. i think they're battling mistake. eric, i'll still be there more from the leading chinese venture capitalist and political scientists after this break. ah, ah, ah news.

ah, ah, no, no borders. my number tease, you emerge, we don't have a therapy, we go to the back seen the whole world, leads to take action and be ready. people who judge, you know, crisis we can do better, we should be better. everyone is contributing each in our own way, but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenges for the response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are together in join me every

thursday on the alex simon show. and i'll be speaking to guess in the world. the politic sport business. i'm show business. i'll see you then me after the fight in some european leaders such as germany's merkel and frances mac road called for renewed dialogue with russia. the baltic states in poland said not so fast. thus, there is no consensus within the e u on how to move forward. the ball remains in brussels court the welcome back. i'm still with venture capitalists and political scientists. eric lee, you said that europe, europe, and project is basically finished. obviously, a lot of people in britain agree with you because they voted for breakfast and the largest democratic vote in history in this country. do you see the response to

china's rise in terms of sanctions, in terms of what many suddenly chinese officials believe is propaganda in the western media. these are the only responses left for brussels and stroudsburg. well, i wouldn't be so kind of the mistake about europe and about china. i think your project spanish certainly in some trouble. i think it's in trouble because probably because it's taken on a overly geological interaction or some time and i think from the corrections are needed and i'm, i'm optimistic about the future of europe and what the correct itself. and we know that, but in terms of the relationship between europe and china and the western china, we're talk about the meeting late in the year. i was just looking at the

numbers of countries. and that's the largest, 3 largest economy of us, japan in germany. guess who is their largest trading partner? all 3 china in the u. k. china, biggest in full market? there's 200000 chinese students studying u. k. u n of our cities, right? paying 1700000000 pounds a year and tuition. it's probably the largest source of foreign revenue and european universe days. so they're extraordinary interconnectivity between china and all the countries very, there is the indigo electricity in china, just replace, as you say, germany as britain's big, simple market. but you know about the sanctions. what does the businessman think watching this program, knowing the 3rd party sanctions, china is now saying they're going to retaliate against us. trump, here a sanctions are being continued through to biden. what is

a business when supposed to think, despite all the big figures of huge in the connectivity about the future, is this is, this is unstable. how can i make sure that the governments here in europe are going to sanction me for some element in the supply chain? well, it's unfortunate, and i think, i don't feel like i said, you know, china is the largest trading power in the world today. and it's the largest trading nation in the history of the world. so if, if the country is one of a and they, i fully china, they're going to be isolating. but i mean, china is built in to the economic world even exist. and i know that it's been reducing the amount of bonds us bond between buying us debt is increasing its now $9000000.00 up $1.00 trillion dollars of us debt. and why, why is china so interested in,

in optimism for the american dream. as we've seen, the recent instability in the united states, i'm not sure optimism is the right way to describe the financial relationship. china, obviously a lot of matter. well why, why in the dead? because the economic way of trying to get of the trading relationship equation has to balance going on well, on the mental like if i mean, i'm not a economists. you ask economists, i believe they will tell you that the us is consuming too much and making a saving and that, that's why it's invalid. you know, one way out of the reliance on the federal reserve, which obviously that is into linked to and lots of talk even in nature, countries about the mass printing of money here in britain, bank of england and the federal reserve is crypto currency. was china clamping down

so hard on crypto currency? mine is that would make countries all over the world in the developing world independent of a federal reserve, which arguably operates for us interests. well, i'm not currently, but what i'm read is there are 2 issues. one is extraordinary energy come to mind. so i think that's one of the reasons they are trying to control it. and the 2nd reason, obviously, it's a currency that poly regulated at the moment. so they're probably out of potential for financial that. i mean that's a better way, i think are cracking down on crypto currency in the future. i think clipper currently does have a role. i think countries that cooperate and work work together to to,

to the develop the rules of the road. but i think the very early stage, yeah, i mean those who are full of your current, so you'll get solar and water in development actually is that they should be which is different from the other current. that means i think china was at the bottom of that and already the united states is looking into that too. but i mean, when you talk about regulation, that would be the united states, regulate, regulating the dollar. china prefer that. no, i think china would be regularly, it's only to be i mean, fundamentally what is, what are the big differences and perhaps reforms that nato countries fulfilled suffering. the legacy of the 20 way crisis could learn from china or the history is just to, to different. i mean, britain have a civil service. people say vaccination program here in britain benefited from the

creation of the national health service in the, in the post war period. other, other lessons that western european countries can learn from china recovering from the impacts of neo liberal policies. i think western countries are really, instead of trying to develop way to keep china down, they need to reform what the, where america and europe need reform badly. they need to reform their systems to make them work better, less politics, less ology, and more, delivering practical, good, and practical benefits for their people. that's what governments tell people all the time in the major country. that's exactly what they were trying to to. and in fact, you know, what was a big issue, i think with western country is that somehow they have commenced

themselves that there's only one moment democracy as called liberal democracy. and they made this length of liberalism and democracy. only liberal society can be a crack. and i think that fall there could be other forms of democratic governance . i, i, for one thing, china is very democratic and it's not liberal democratic. western countries tend to believe that somehow you have to be liberal democratic. and in fact, i think liberalism has left to a lack of democracy in western countries as maybe the west let them aquatic. so i think that's something that we consider in western countries. and yet the peoples of europe, the vast majority of them are sure they are the ones living in the democratic societies and you are not i, i think, you know,

the west tends to measure democracy by procedure and what that for liberal in its about procedures. so if you follow these procedures correctly or follow the think correctly, you by the condition nation democratic, you might be a stop under that democratic i think, well, the chinese, for me, i think democracy ought to be measured by outcome by resolve. so if you're delivering a better life for a large number of people, vast majority of young people, of course your democratic. if you're not delivering hub democratic argument, i mean some may be asking, as we hear the rules based international order being resides, is here by up all additions all the time. that the nature is losing patience with china. boris johnson has sent the biggest warship in the royal navy towards

china's maritime borders. china is allowed 400 bases in circle your country. and obviously companies is a big companies who are way obviously banned from the 5 g infrastructure of this country. it is if it's, if the torque is being ratcheted up, multiply and the communist party of china is trying its best talking a bit more the wolf diplomacy. i don't know whether she brings against it. now, the wolf differ busy, but it's as if it doesn't realize how and circled and how isolated it is in the world despite all the interconnectivity isolated militarily under siege. i think that's an unfortunate development. i think it contrary to what we know are the facts on the ground and what we know from history. so,

i've always said that china, you know, 2030 years ago, china, chad, the chinese before this idea comp, fluoride, they wanted to rise people. and at the time, a lot of people thought that you know that i was not credible and nobody believed it. but looking back, i think people rise has already happened. we went from a for a growing country to the great industrial power house that china is today in merely 2 generations, 2nd largest economy and the largest economy by purchasing power parity. yet, china has invaded a single country, not a single shot, fired. and i'm present it in human history. if you review the survey history, the rise of every great power on the higher the roman empire

from the british empire to america manifest destiny to the rise of modern japan, modern germany. almost all of them actually, all of them were accompanied by great flesh at colonization of entire continents killing off slaves. months of entire population invaders, wars and china thrive has been faster and bigger than them all. so far not a shop has been inspired and that's a great accomplishment. and instead of celebrating this accomplishment encouraging further development, we have these hostilities that developing among western powers and i think that's a process. and i'm fortunate and disappointed. maybe even in the global south,

recognize the chinese achievements. i know the, the programs in latin america and in africa inside these to asia. here in britain, you probably know about media censorship. we have julie and a son being tortured up the road here in bel much prison. according to the un, china's network, c, g, g end, defective band here by regulators. how can trying to get this message out to the world that it comes in peace. if every time any official, medium tries to speak it's suppressed, and journalism, arguably in nato countries as well. some people accused of being captured by the military industrial complex. well, i tell you, i don't have any idea how to get the message across, but it will be and when the media don't want to portray a china that's truthful to their own people, that's their last. and they are doing just service. so their own people and they're

losing credibility. i'm on 1400000000 chinese people as well. and i think, you know, it's on them. eric lee, thank you. and that's for the show what we'd like a wednesday when vitamin bridge and needs with joe biden in geneva until then keep in touch with social media and tell us of using the nation media reporting on china . ah ah ah, it doesn't, you know, provisional my back on it. i would have been like i was one. okay. your trucking last year. so you'll have a lost his boss because i just look at any of that. but let me just read you. we're going to be,

i'm on my cell. my don't put up as soon as i mentioned earlier. so i hope you're not my pull up. i got your month almost. what did i'm already whatever sped up. i really just got to go in. i mean, it was a lot going on when i went up as when i say, i mean 30 heels, i just don't get on to the ost viewed it to get over that one of this. but i'm like, i say this is what it is. i'm looking to see if you could ok home. i just didn't. yes it was a total thing i was calling with you and your team, samantha katie. yeah. my thought a lot of problem. you just got to go to the pairing and found introducing and found to to a family when a new mother is going through that process. yeah, certainly tremendous cause for join, but because it's an event that causes so many different changes. it's stressful,

at many levels. ah, putting that food in his whole to his life, q and a marathon with the russian public, where the pandemic is expected to dominate the annual event never goes by without its fair share of human. ah, by that great, have you with your watching auntie internation? ok, i just be the it it for you. any moment now, but i think putin will begin fielding questions from the russian public. it's part of his annual life question and answer session last year. people of course miss downs on the chance because of the pandemic. but almost 2000000 questions.