all the small coming up in today's edition of going underground 1st over the weekend, the circle g 7 countries including the u. s. and you came in cornwall for its annual summit that some of accused of repelling and anti russia and the china agenda. western relations with one of the world's largest economies, china of argument, we shall know point, particularly in the wake of accusations over a week and last week and we get genocide. nevertheless, communist china is the only major economy that hit record economic growth in the 1st quarter of this year amidst the current pandemic. joining me now for a special show from shanghai, venture capitalist and political scientist, eric lee, thanks so much eric for coming on. the g stands for group, but i didn't know whether you think it could stand for globalization. you said before that globalized door globalism, injected globalization is dead, has been dead for a while. was the g 7 basically another funeral? well, thank you for having the call. the funeral it, it's a small party. listen,

i grew up my high school. i went to big high school 300 kids just in my class. well, if you want to have a party with just famine people, you can do that. it's okay. but i tell you these, these guys, i didn't go very far in life. maybe go to a fire live because they wanted to nationalist enough. well no, they were too expensive too, too much into themselves, and they thought they were hot, they were bullies and they could run the world was much larger than that. and you've said that you can trace the current society as, as configured in western europe to, to new liberal reforms after the fall of the berlin wall. you see

what the swedes of the world has basically failed. they failed western europe has failed. the 28th crash. i think you said that china failed to understand quite cataclysmic. the so called western economic crisis was that we're still living with today despite the impact to the pandemic. well, i think it all transpired at the end of the cold war and as we all know, america and west one, the cold war are somewhat a lot cold war since then, i think western society has gone on and india logic cope who say within their own country, they thought they got the magic formula, which is global, or liberalism taking around the world liberal market economics. electro democracy, all these things they think is what made them succeed. and they're going to

universalize it and push it to the extreme in their own countries. and that led to the new liberal doctrine, both economically and politically and socially, if you will. and i think i have run the ground in the past 10 years. they've gone too far and left to great unraveling of their own societies and a large number of bathrooms. the country that adopted those values, and those systems are not succeeding. developing countries amongst developing countries, post cold war china is the only major country that had really prospered and delivered for large number of people. delivered to them a better life in the world. and the analysis that you'll see in the west for that is because it abandoned socialism. i understand you've said actually the,

the years between 949 and 979 of state socialism were the fundamentals upon which the chinese 21st century was built. this is, this is be an evolution from the time of the creation of the people's republic. well, yeah, i had said that and i think, you know, people missed and misconstrue the history of modern times. they tend to divide it into the 1st 30 years and their mouth to about late in the been shopping market reform, which china to what it is today. but i've always said that without the 1st year, the 2nd that the market with mom would not have been in the 1st 30 years. obviously we had a lot of problems and a lot of mistake. but it was in the 1st 30 years, we go like expectancy and 1949 valley about 40 or i think what,

what do you one you when i live i'll live life expectancy in 1949. when people to publish mounted to already in the late sixty's in the late 1967, i think like a literacy right away from negligible to over 80 and understand among young people. in emily, 970 industrial base was built in the 1st 30 years, and more importantly, national independence, china on the 8th invite it. and that allowed it to pursue it. after the 1st 30 years that the people at the public so shopping warms, were successful. in many ways, because the foundation was late in the 1st 30 years and profound you've argued has been the relationship between political power and capital. you

claim that will these g 7 leaders in capital exerts disproportionate influence over politics here in britain, in nature of countries. whereas in china, capitalists just don't have that power. oh, i'm a capitalist. i got no power in the medical pow anyway. so be, i think what has gone astray in the west in america and maybe in europe and who is after the cold war. they've gone on the new liberal path where the capital has the interest and capital risen above the interest of the nation. so capital began to pay politics and they looked after their interest. so that's how you see the wealth capital in liberal society and solidified

authentication. in america and west and indeed, equality has exploded their food banks down the street from me here, remind us what is the precise difference between capitalism in nato, the liberal country and capitalism. in china, we don't have capitalism. we have a marketing economy. we do have capital and we have people like me will manage capitalism. to me, means a market economy that you managed in a way that it generate efficient returns allocate resources efficiently. ok, capital is to meaning somehow capital the interest of capital rise above the interest friday of the whole and they capture the, the cost for the benefit and that we don't want in this country. you've often extol the virtues of marriage, socratic, communist party congress. the definition,

philosophically of meritocracy, easy and equality. do you don't see the dangers of the increase in inequality in china? not just because of how successful in terms of market the economics china has become because of the system itself based on meritocracy. well, i've always said that china, india has american credit governance, but i never called a american to see. i think there's an important distinction there. governments, me able people can raise through the rack and become decision makers. and that's what america government me. so you want capable people were tested through the years and just like a good company, you will have people that are capable, your hire them at the bottom and they move, they food, their track record, and you give them or responsibility and how,

that's what, how government should work and you see the future enjoying that in terms of combat to equality, a return to some of the more socialist marxist principles that have arguably been lost. well, yes i, in the past we've seen a great transformation of china last 9 to 10 years. the, i think the paradigm shift occurred in 2012 with the 18 party congress. and china had shifted from the 30 or 40 years prior to that, which was the headlong pursuit comic growth at whatever the cost actually. and that we're shifting away from that towards what's called more balance, well balance development, which really mean a common prosperity. so it's

a more equitable society. so there are a lot of side effects of market economics that we had for food for date. equality is one of them, environmental degradation, it's another, an odd and corruption was another. so all these issues needs to be addressed. and i think there's been a great transformation where the chinese society in china self perception and the national aspiration of the chinese people in my generation, especially among young people in my generation. we work primarily concerned about china impor and lacking development. but if you ask younger generation autobahn post 994-2000 there, 34 in your home, by the way there of course they want economic opportunities, but their primary concerns are about any quality and sustainable sustainability for the future. so if you're a viewer in a nato country watching this interview,

you're going to be thinking, hang on a minute. china is responsible for genocide every other day. we hear about this and genocide in june, jang, and arguably, arguably a connected to china's lack of interventionism given it's afghan, has done the chinese officials now talk about and you have no free press and you're not allowed to. the chinese people is 400000000 young people. they're not allowed to understand the history of civilizations from all different points of view. what sort of society is that? well, if that's what they want to believe, they can believe. if that's true, china going nowhere. if that's true, china would never have achieved already, as he you know, the young chinese view jordan knowledge of the world. and that's the

fact that we have the post $92000.00 generations. extremely lifelong about. i mean, i'm not saying wikipedia, is that great, but we compete is banned in china. yeah. but, well, basically you can still get cnn. let me, let me give you one exam. ok. i'm so sorry. sorry. yeah, that's, yeah. but listen, i think that the year before 2019 alone about a 120 a 130000000 chinese people went abroad and came back were the largest current outbound part of the country in the world by far so. so to say that somehow chinese people don't know about what's going on in the world. i think they're battling golf stubby. they're more from the leading chinese venture capitalist. political scientists often break

the news the news the imagine picking up a future textbook on the early years of the 21st century. what other chapters called gun violence school shootings, homelessness. first,

it was my job then it was my name was my savings. i have nothing, i have nothing and it's not like i don't try. i look for resources, i look for jobs, i look for everything i can to make this pass. and all i end up doing is passing the road to the american dream, paved with dead refugees at this very idealized image of the older america, native americans look past the death that happen every single day. this is a modern history of the usa america on r t i welcome back. i'm still with venture capitalists and political scientists. eric lee, you said the europe the europe project is basically finished. obviously, a lot of people in britain agree with you because they voted for breakfast and the largest democratic vote in history in this country. do you see the response to china's rise in terms of sanctions,

in terms of what many suddenly chinese officials believe is propaganda in the western media. these are the only responses left for brussels and stroudsburg. well, i wouldn't be so kind of the mistake about europe and about china. i don't think your project finishes, certainly in some trouble. i think it's in trouble because probably because of taken on a overly geological interaction for some time. and i think some corrections are needed and i'm, i'm optimistic about the future of europe and for to correct itself. and we know that, but in terms the relationship between europe and china and the western china. we're talk my g 7 meeting that just late in the year. i was just looking at the numbers of the countries, and that's the largest 3 largest economy of us,

japan in germany. guess who is the largest trading partner? all 3 china in the u. k. china, the biggest info market. there's 200000 chinese students studying u. k u n. of our cities right now. paying 1700000000 pounds a year in tuition. it's probably the largest source of foreign revenue in k universe days. so they're extraordinary interconnectivity between china and all the few countries. there is the indigo electricity in china, just replace as you say, germany as britons, we can sample market but you know about the sanctions. what does the businessman think? watching this program? knowing the 3rd party sanctions, china is now saying they're going to retaliate against us at trump, or sanctions that are being continued through to biden. what is

a business when supposed to think, despite all the big figures of huge india connectivity about the future? this is, this is unstable. how can i make sure that the governments here in europe and going to sanction me for some elements in the supply chain? well, it's unfortunate and i think it's delta v. like i said, you know, china is the largest trading power in the world today, and it's the largest trading nation in the history of the world. so if, if the country is one of a and the isolate china, they're going to be isolating. but i mean, china is built in to the economic world cannot exist and i know that it's been reducing the amount of bonds. us bonds between buying us debt is increasing. it's now $9000000.00 up $1.00 trillion dollars of us debt and why? why is china so interested in,

in optimism for the american dream as we've seen, the recent instability in the united states? i'm not sure. optimism is the right way to describe the national relationship. china, obviously a lot as well. why, why in the dead happens because the economic way of trying to get of the trading relationship equation has to balance going on. well, on a mil, like if, i mean, i'm not a economy that economists, i believe they will tell you that the us is consuming too much and making a saving and that's why it's invalid. you know, one way out of the reliance on the federal reserve, which obviously that is into linked to and lots of talk even in nature, countries about the mass printing of money here in britain, it's by give england and the federal reserve is crypto currency. why it's china

clamping down so hard on crypto currency? mine is that would make countries all over the world in the developing world, independent of a federal reserve, which arguably operates for u. s. interests. i'm not an expert currency, but they're what i've read is there are 2 issues. one is extraordinary energy come to mind. so i think that's one of the reasons they are trying to control it. and the 2nd reason, obviously it's a currency that poly regulated at the moment. so they're probably out of potential for financial. i mean the us federal reserve i think are cracking down crypto currently in the future. i think clinical currently does have a role. i think countries the cooperative work work together to, to, to, to develop the rules of the road. but i think the very early stage. yeah,

i mean the, those who are full of their current teacher, solar and in development actually is that they should be which is different from the other current. that being said, i think china is at the bottom of that. and already the united states is looking into that too, but i mean, when you talk about regulation, that would be the united states, regulate, regulating the door, trying to prefer that no, i think china would be regulating its own r m b. i mean, fundamentally what is, what are the big differences and perhaps reforms that nato countries fulfilled suffering. the legacy of the 20 way crisis could learn from china or the history is just to, to different. i mean, britain have civil service. people say vaccination program here in britain benefited from the creation of the national health service in the,

in the post war period. other, other lessons that western european countries can learn from china recovering from the impacts of neo liberal policies. i think western countries are really, instead of trying to develop way to keep china down, they need to reform what the, where america and europe need reform badly. they need to reform their systems to make them work better. less politics, less ology, and more. delivering practical good and practical benefits for their people. that's what governments tell people all the time in the major country. that's exactly what they were trying to to. and in fact, you know, what was a big issue. i think with western countries is that somehow they have

convinced themselves that there's only 11 with democracy as called liberal democracy. and they've made this length of liberalism and democracy only liberal society can give them a crack. and i think that's false. there could be other forms of democratic governance. i, i, for one thing, china is very democratic and it's not liberal. democratic. western countries tend to believe that somehow you have to be liberal democratic. and in fact, i think liberalism has left to a lack of democracy in western countries as make the west let democrat. so i think that's something that we ought to consider in western countries. and yet the peoples of europe, the vast majority of them are sure they are the ones living in the democratic societies and you are not i, i think, you know,

the west tends to measure of democracy, my procedure. and what that for liberalism is, it's about procedures. so if you follow these procedures correctly or follow the things correctly, you find the condition mission democratic. you might be a starving good that you're democratic. i think, well, the chinese, at least for me, i think democracy ought to be measured by outcome by resolve. so if you're delivering a better life for a large number of people, vast majority of young people, of course your democratic, if you're not delivering how democratic are you. i mean, some may be asking, as we hear the rules based international order being recited, here by up all additions all the time that the nature is losing patience with china. morris johnson sent the biggest war ship in the royal navy towards

china's maritime borders. china is allowed 400 bases in circle your country. and obviously companies, big companies who are way obviously banned from the 5 g infrastructure of this country. it is if it's, if the torque is being ratcheted up or multiply and the communist party of china is trying its best talking a bit more the wolf diplomacy. i don't know whether she brings against him. now, the wolf differ busy, but it's as if it doesn't realize how in circles and how isolated it is in the world despite all the interconnectivity isolated militarily under siege. i think that's an unfortunate development. i think it's contrary to what we know are the facts on the ground and what we know from history. so i've always said that

china, you know, 2030 years ago, china, chad, the chinese before this idea called people right now they wanted to rise people at the time a lot of people thought that you know, that i was not credible. and nobody a very few people believed it. but looking back, i think people rise has already happened. we went from a for a growing country to the great industrial power house. the china is today in the mail is to generations, 2nd largest economy and the largest economy by purchasing power parity. yes, china has invaded a single country, not a single shot, fired and unprecedented in human history. if you reveal survey history, the rise of every great power on the higher the roman empire

from the british empire to america manifest destiny to the rise of modern japan, modern germany. almost all of them actually, all of them were accompanied by great flesh colonization of entire continents killing off and lay months of entire population. invaders, wars and china thrive had been faster and bigger than them all. so far not a shop had been inspired. and that's a great accomplishment. and instead of celebrating this accomplishment encouraging its further development, we have these hostilities that developing among western powers. and i think that's an unfortunate and disappointed maybe even in the global south recognize

a chinese achievements. i know the, the programs in latin america and in africa inside these to asia have here in britain, you probably know about media censorship. we have julianna's and being tortured up the road here in bel much prison. according to the un, china's network c g n defacto band here by regulate just how can china get this message out to the world that it comes in peace. if every time any official, medium tries to speak it suppressed. and, and journalism, arguably in nato countries, is, well, some people accused of being captured by the military industrial complex. well, i tell you, i don't have any idea how to get the message across. but if western media and western media don't want to portray china that's truthful to their own people, that's their loss. and they are doing just service to their own people. and they're

losing credibility. i'm on 1400000000 chinese people as well. and i think, you know, it's on them. eric lee, thank you. and that's for the show what we'd like a wednesday wednesday and needs with joe biden in geneva until then keep in touch with social media and tell us of using major, major media reporting on china. ah . you know, probably you know, my background. i would have been under state like, obviously lucky your trucking last year. so you'll have to, i lost his boss because i just got to the bottom. you just gotta go video. we started the, i'm on my cell, my those up as well. so you know, you're not to my pull up. i got notice, i mean my almost what i'm already whatever set up i really just got

a lot going on when i went up and i might really, he was, i just don't get on to the video to sancho that i'm one of this, but i would like to speak to somebody last month. i didn't actually go to kind of all my just part of it. yes, it was a total good thing i was calling with you and your team, samantha katie. yeah. my thought a lot of problem. you just gotta go after the bio summit, european leaders such as germany's miracle and francis macro called for renew dialogue with russia. the baltic states in poland said not so fast. thus there is no consensus within the e u on how to move forward. the ball remains in brussel court. the the,

the the digging deeper into canada as dark passed another 182 on mark graves of indigenous people or on earth near a former residential school site. following to similar discoveries, and recently coming up in the program today, vladimir putin rub up his live mar thing q and a session with a russian public revealing after week some speculation of the sputnik b vaccine stating russia won't be dictated to by social media platforms such as facebook the red cross said it's ready to deliver the sputnik job to conflict areas around the world bouts. if the local authorities approve the shot we are discussing.