the who's welcome to the alex, i mean sure we're in the run up to the, to kill lympics. we focus on the greatest race of all the contest between the vaccines undivided and were better to introduce the subject than i said. the london science museum currently pressed into service as a national health service vaccination center. a demonstration of the practical application of scientific achievement. at night seems reasonably clear that in the country of the u. k. science has the upper hand entirely signed to the any vaccination program. the vaccines have in stock divided, which is still running rampant, but they do stop. most people getting studiously unwell and keep them out of indeed the success of any chance and running vaccination compared to the see the

deficiencies of the privatized english test and system as something which side to job westminster, incoming hell 60 may wish to ponder, as he considers the massive issue of re form of social care position. the u. k. may be in the finishing state of beating the violence, but internationally human kinds of bailey, i started logs last month and the ideal accessing of carpet been cornwall. the g 7 liter tailed, a worldwide initiative to provide vaccines for all. however, it was immediately dismissed as a model failure by former prime minister gordon tried to merge that it would be years, not months before the developing world has access to life. saving back today on the alex salmon, shall we turn to the expertise of mine. who knows the answers don't digital camera 6 to general. so based international vaccine institute buyers. this key interview

coming up soon. but 1st few tweaks and messes in response to i show last week. big think peter touch on the phone. hitting pizza attached to gordon says, looking forward to seeing the movie, peter was quite clearly 3 decades ahead of his time. fascinating. interviewed by alex. thank you. carol says, thanks alex, quite a lot in there. i didn't know about peter tied to. i'm finally a country youth from young. he says todd joe, as a troublemaker. he was at the minor strike causing trouble. well, international vaccine institute is a thought based non profit international organization devoted to research in boxing, development, and delivery for the developing world. with 160 partners worldwide, ranging from government to industry, academia and civil society to enter governmental organizations such as the world health organization, the i v. i is uniquely pleased to judge on the state of the doing the same race between the deployment to faxing and the development of the corona. by the way back

seems to be successful in suppressing the deadly virus. i will be new v as in march to defeat science, while the bulk of humanity is left unprotected, alex is in conversation with doctor to don't ken. secretary general or the soul based international vaccine institute. dr. jerome can give me your assessment of way of the world dis, lift the, the race between the vaccine and, and the call that virus that's a great point to make. now a year and a half into this, in january of 2020, there were 3 big tasks. the 1st was the proof of axing works and safe and applications. the 2nd was to make enough about vaccine and significant quantity at sufficient quality. and then the final was to vaccinate everyone in order to have impact, because until you vaccinate anyone, everyone, you're not going to have the right impact. so what's the, our score card or score card is? we've been able to prove that 10 or actually now 13 vaccines are safe and just by

different regulatory standards by enlarge that's the answer. so that was relatively simple. we did it in record time starting from scratch in january 2020 getting to that seems approved by november of 2020. great. the bigger questions though aren't around vaccine research and development. but really, around can we make enough of this vaccine in order to vaccinate 8000000000 people around the world? and then can we distribute the vaccine? do we have the logistical system in place that will be able to put jobs into the arms of those a 1000000000 people? and those are going to be far more pressing questions this year and next? so let's, let's look at least 3 areas you. if i then to 5, let's look at the success 1st of those know, a dozen and perhaps a few months will be 20 s a keisha's vaccines against corbett, which will be tested, the develop that is compressed, the work of a decayed into a year. so partly behind that remarkable success. so, you know,

i think that there are a few things, you know, the world has learned at least a little bit from previous pandemic when the company struggled to make vaccine, best enough large part because the, the outbreaks were over before the vaccines were developed. so a number of countries including the u. k, got together and, and put together something called separate coalition prep, demik preparedness innovations which is based both of us low and in london. but really, the point of step was to say, you know, we know that these tend to mix will happen, that they could potentially be destructive and, and far ranging. and we really need to have a better system within 3 weeks of the announcement of the sequence of the virus. in january 2027 had already identified companies, it was going to fund to develop vaccines kind of unprecedented speed for funding. but they also made it clear to the companies that they wanted a product as quickly as possible. and so they were able to pay for the research and

development costs upfront in order to get the countries to accelerate. and then in april to may of last year, the u. s. government kicked in with operation works be again, $20000000000.00 of investment. kind of the same way a country would develop a weapon for the country, develop the vaccine. so they said this is what we want. these are the characteristics we want it to be safe and applications. we want us f d, in this case to prove it. and we want 1cw2cw doses of the vaccine at the end. so we'll buy it from you, and that kind of effort allows you to move very, very quickly through development. because you don't have to, you know, keep turning around and reinventing things and going back. the government said we need a vaccine quickly. that's safe and applications. and the companies did it so, so far so good. lay a range of vaccine 5 different types of bucks in have been developed. is it going

to be possible to produce the quantities required in the sort of time scale required for what old? why vaccination is the production capacity there to produce these new vaccines? so that's a complicated question, but that a really, really critical what is complicated, because if we think about a vaccine in widespread use influenza vaccine made by maybe 2 dozen companies around the world in a typical year for a you know, for the typical flu season. we make 402500 1000000 doses where we've already dispensed over 2000000000 doses of cobit 900 vaccines. it gives you an impression of the scale. and now we're asking these companies, the companies that have developed vaccines, the manufacturer, not 400000000, not 2000000000, but 16000000000 doses actually now if you add on that, you may need boosters and there may be buried vaccines coming. we're talking on a scale that we've never manufactured vaccines before,

and it's not dangerous. it's just, it's something that has to be done. and so, as with any manufacturing process, you have to go from initial low rate manufacturing to much higher rate of manufacturing. and sometimes you have to stop production in order to re tool to get even better production. so there are going to be fits and starts. and we've seen that for many of the vaccines. we also know that the vaccine companies made commitments when they were funded to do the research and development and those commitments have to be honored. because the countries that paid them upfront in order to do research and development wanted to vaccine as a priority. and the companies had to fulfill that, hopefully would come up with a mechanism callbacks that will allow access to innovative action technology within the 1st year of development. it won't be fast enough, but it's, it's a glimmer of hope, another glom. so instead, i mean proof and the argument that some people make the jealous gardening of the,

effectively the vaccine, payton to prevent more manufacture in more places, to get more quantities. and the faster timescale is of any truth. and that argument is more complicated though, in that because we can, we can give you the, we can say this is the vaccine unless you have the cookbook, which is hundreds of pages of documentation it unless we transferred that as well. you're stuck with having to develop the process yourself. the biotech process. now this is a report i haven't actually seen. it has $50000.00 steps. each step has to be controlled and quality control. and how are you going to develop that if you're starting from scratch? so if we need billions of doses of axioms over the next 3 to 6 months, and we do simply waving pat writes is not necessarily going to get to there the time to start thinking about what to do in

a pan damage with that and rates and waivers is actually now, but it may not affect the current wave of vaccines. this may be thinking a year or 2 years or even for the next panoramic. it's an important thing to talk about. but for right now, we just need as much vaccine as we can get of high quality as possible. so dr. kevin, let's take the thought beta you down to 5, and let's say it becomes possible to get the manufacturer ramped up on these $2000000000.00. is become more like 15 or $20000000000.00 is over the 6 months to year in itself would take a half kilian effort is going to be possible to deploy that quantity of vaccine to the places that really need it. another. another great question and really it gets to the issue of how we do vaccination. so, you know, it's, it's really been a remarkable eat that since the year 2000 gabby, the w h o units have been able to put into place programs that vaccinate 80 to 85

percent of the world's children against the basic disease is what we call the extended program for immunization really remarkable, and it saved millions of buys actually saves 2 and a half 1000000 lives a year. that's fascinating. the children. so in korea, the birth cohort, the number of children born every years between 30400000. the number of people increase 51000000 and you can imagine the difference between having to vaccinate 300000 individuals and that's in, in 51000000 barrels. but we know that there are of axioms that we could directly give to adults that we improve the quality of life for adults. and could this, you know, building of, of infrastructure, strengthening of health is strengthening of reporting systems. actually create something that would give a benefit to all countries. now that's going to require fund and the i m f estimates that it's, it's a significant amount of funding, but the return on investment could be 9 trillion dollars by 2025. so the other can,

given your experience and knowledge and background in terms of logistics, what is the best possible estimate of when will be able to bring, what say africa up to a level of vaccination that will prevent, bought a coven variance managing out of that continent so i don't think it will probably be 2022 before the kinds of vaccination rates you've seen in the u. k or, or in israel or united states are going to be achievable in africa. and it may very well be in the 2nd half of 2022. again, that would be a remarkable speed for a global immunization program. remember, it took us a decade for smallpox. so there are 3 potential crises. the 1st is the humanitarian . we know from modeling that if there is not equity in the distribution of the 1st 2000000000 doses of axiom global cobra, that's currently over 3 and

a half 1000000. could double the epidemic. pandemic can be per locked and no one wants that. the 2nd argument is economic, and this comes from multiple sources. and the last one is kind of interesting. the books in brookings institute, the national board of economic review, and now the u. s. white house office of national intelligence are essentially saying that if there is not, if we cannot provide equity in the distribution of vaccines, then high income countries will pay an economic cost. that economic costs are estimated this year at about $4.00 to $5.00 trillion dollars. essentially saying what the secretary general of the united nation says that no one save until everyone. but the final one is actually the potentially the most trouble. and this is a biological crisis. we know that the variance has emerged from areas of uncontrolled out things from brazil, and the u. k. from south africa and india from the united states. the variance of

concern are generated when we can control and outweigh, using standard preventive measures, in the absence of explanation. failure to provide vaccine to the parts of the elder failure to understand and demick in certain parts of the world, sub saharan africa, south asia, for example, and failure to understand where the variance are, could be hunting a crisis that may undermine $20000000000.00 worth of investment in the vaccines that we have now that are cases and we cannot let that join us after the break when alex continues. his conversation with dr. jerome can sexy journal of international vaccine institute. we see them the the news the pro

vision are my background. i was like, i was lucky you lucky, last year. so you'll have to, i lost his boss because i just got the problem. you just got to read. you will be on monday. my thought, my those up as well so you know, you're not my pull up. i got, you notice, i mean my, almost what i'm already whatever spits up i really just got a lot going on when i went up and i might really, he was, i just don't get it on to the video to get that done. one of this, but i'm like honestly this is what it is. i'm looking i didn't want to go to kind of all my just part of it. yes, it was a thing i was calling with you and your team, samantha katie. yeah. my thought aloud problem. you just gotta go

welcome back. alex is in conversation with dr. jones ken of international vaccine institute on who is reading the deadly wraith in human science on the current divide. it does start to can what's going on with his violence and intentionally. corona virus is what god did almost as send them ela via this is, you know, slow moving, slow to adopt. this one is quite different is variance out of matching with surprising speed. and all these variance, which is the one you've seen, which one is you, most of the imagining variance gives you the real cause for concern. and you know, that's an interesting question because i used to, and my previous lab used to do sequencing of h i b variance now compared to h, i, b corona hard variation is very small. if you imagine

h i v variation is by hand current of our station, sorry coby to variation is like the tip of a pat ballpoint pens of the variance that we have seen so far. it appears that the delta variance, which is the one circulating now, actually the most common version circulating the you k. very commonly found in south asia, appears to be much more transmissible and may cause a greater amount of disease. do the vaccines work against it? currently they do, it's very important to get 2 doses. and actually that's data effectiveness data actually that came out of the united kingdom. that it's true that with appropriate vaccination, we significantly decrease the things that matters severe infection, hospitalization, and death. and those are the things i've actually just supposed to do. wouldn't have been expecting that wasn't expected. as the virus became more transmissible,

it would cost less punch hasn't not been the addition of mutation of viruses. they become more infectious, that the people are infecting, suffer, less disease. again, that doesn't seem to be happening, particularly with the, the del civilian is. so in a viruses. so i think i'm actually a british nobel prize winner. one set of virus is a piece of bad news wrapped up in protein. it's mutating in order to spread efficiently. and some of the variance spend more efficiently, like when the very early stages of pandemic, without significant increase in, in the severity of disease. the u. k. variance did actually have some potential increase in severity. the delta variance appears to have potentially be more transmissible and, and have greater severity. so we can predict how these viruses are going to mutate, their mutating on their own in order to spread part of the other series of

questions that we have to answer are have to do with even within good countries that are vaccinated. where, where are their pockets of unvaccinated people were? where's their heterogeneity in the vaccination? so in the united states, there are states with relatively high rates of vaccination and significant clusters of states with low rates of exploration. could those states with low rates of vaccination be in the future, yet the center of law break with new variants? so again, you know, the job's not over anywhere. and i think one of the things that we have learned from this particular current of ours is that we're always, we always seem to be surprised when, in fact, we know we need to vaccinate as many people as possible as quickly as possible in order to protect against viruses, you know, one of the things that people don't think about, you know, they think while getting back to me, i'm protecting myself or you're, you're not only protecting yourself, you're protecting others because when you're vaccinated,

your ability to spread the virus. if you do become intact, it appears to decrease, we don't have a formal group of that. there's a lot of circumstantial evidence around that. but the 2nd part of this is you're beating virus because if we can't contain outbreaks, we control the generation of mutants. so we're going to beat this, we all have to get back to me as quickly as possible. dr. kim, looking your own background as a condo in the, in the military, your work in the v. if this struggle between the viruses and the matching viruses and human kind, is it like a military campaign? can you think of it? and in that context is human kind engaged in the other channel battle with viruses? i think it's, it's, that's a very poetic description. in fact, you know, there have been multiple infectious diseases, not only viruses that have been the result of introductions into human populations

. and, you know, and some of them will seem kind of old fashion. you know, the great pox was actually syphilis, the smallpox killed, you know, up to 30 percent of a certain populations. when it was introduced. there are islands in the pacific that were wiped up. i knew when they were introduced by europeans. you know, yes it is. there, there have been a series of pandemic that occur periodically. you know, this is the code 1900 pandemic is the worst in a century. we thought in fact, that, you know, with modern medicine, with all of our ability to make new vaccines and do have me ology and to do all this molecular biology that, you know, potentially we could reduce the impact. and i think that, that we've seen that it is not only the science, but the politics and the social issues that also are going to drive our ability to respond to some countries. and you just really are in new zealand. you, korea or others have been successful in,

in controlling the initial outbreaks. in the absence of vaccination, other countries have been less successful and for those countries than vaccines are, are very critical because there aren't other ways to, to control outbreaks. i think it's, you know, we think of it as a campaign, but developing a vaccine in this case, a vaccine against co good is something that the army teaches you to do. and actually it's funny of the u. s. army uses same system for buying a tank as it does for developing a vaccine. it go, we go through an acquisition process that involves research and development, testing and, and then low rate production. hi, reproduction. i mean, but it's thought of as a continuum of making a purchase of something that will work to do what you need to do. and i think that was the, that was how they did operation. what they said, this is what we want. this is what we'll pay for it at the end. if you're

successful, you need all of the key performance indicators will buy it. and, and that was beneficial. and i think that that model helps not can live perspective on them to national vaccine institute based in seoul, korea and your membership countries, including of course bottles. and the w show itself got to show a rallying called to, to the international community of the things that need to be done so that we can to use a military get their fosters for the most us that we can actually deploy our resources effectively. and when the struggle as quickly as possible against coven, what would be the key things that you see as need to be done to accelerate all efforts? so, you know, and we have to do these things in parallel. while we were developing the vaccine, we should have been developing plans to distribute the vaccine equitably,

putting into place the contract. those things are being worked on now. as vaccines are moving out of national regulatory approval into w h or approval into per purchases and contracts with the organization known as callbacks. it's all taken time. and so the number of doses promised to go back, which is significant. 30 percent of global need should be provided to this callbacks facility by the end of the year. but there been delays. maybe there were anticipated delays, many of them probably were an anticipated. but we had to have a mechanism for moving vaccines that are approved that are high quality, can getting them into the facility so they can be distributed at the 2nd part of it . this is really around preparations for vaccination. so how are we going to ensure that when we have 1100000000 doses for subs her and africa? how are we going to be able to ensure that, that those vaccine doses are going to be given appropriately to all the people who

need it as quickly as possible? are we working now on strengthening immunization systems in those countries and strengthening logistical systems within those countries? to ensure that when we have the vaccine in hand, we can rapidly put that back scene into the arm of a person who needs. we are often say that things don't save lives, vaccination, that's the process of vaccinating 8000000000 people with probably be to 2 doses of vaccine 16000000000 doses is unprecedented, but it's something that we can't fill up something that really have to succeed in doing so. i v, i, you know, we didn't develop our own actually, what we had decided in february of last year was we will help anybody who comes to us for assistance because we can interact, or we can work with companies at the early stage when it's still in the laboratory one when they want to tested in animals, we can test it in a human population,

but we call this one face to face 3 trials. we can test it in effectiveness trials so we can do mass vaccinations and see whether the vaccine is actually doing what we want it to do. we can work with regulatory agencies or with a groups like w, h o, that set policy and many people from maybe i've been sitting on committees with w a show i helping to form some of the policy around coban, 1900 vaccination. so, you know, we, for kogan view ourselves as a helper, willing to go anywhere to do anything in order to move back seems through the process research to develop. and now we actually have only 4 funders, state hunters that are korea, sweden, india, and finland. no g 7 countries are part of id i most of our funding, 3 quarters of it comes from philanthropic organizations or actually research organizations like separate the coalition for demo preparedness of

h innovation or building melinda gates foundation. so we really are the welcome. and we really critically depend on those projects that we have to write in order to, to do the work that we do. and we really do work on the diseases that the big companies don't want to work on. we're really committed to that and into the populations around the world in need of vaccination. delta jerome can site to general of the international vice institute. thank you so much for joining me on melick silence. sure. thank you. i've gotten, brian became the but of much humor when once in the house of commons, as prime minister, he 9th, he was busy saving the world when he meant to face saving the bag. however, it is difficult not to accept his cut and condemnation of the g 7 attempt to provide the world with bags and protection as an adequate to meet both the enormity and urgency of the task and hands as doctor can points out the creation on

manufactured of billions of vaccines and the client of human ingenuity, but he warns that it's vaccinations not vaccine will save people. and the number of shots needed are 20000000000, not the 2000000000 fledged by the g 7 and early court. who gordon bryan went to name p, represented cra, cody, i took that same scottish tide kid in the genius of adam smith. the finder of economics. smith develop the concept of enlightened self interest. honest society. we should reside at the world's rich to the same skill required to save the world. if this vital means undefeated any, we are for any length of time been evaded, will surely merge of africa or asia, which will be the boxing and playing just all back into darkness. the logistics of vaccinating ever on the planet needs to be tackled right now. if everyone on the planet is to be safe for the future,

but for nice knowledge myself and all of the sure, it's good by this. see, i'm, we'll see you all again next week. ah, me the so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy plantation, let it be an arms race is on often very dramatic development. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful,

a very critical time. time to sit down and talk the more and more graves of indigenous children are falling in canada on the grounds of a former catholic school, bringing the total to over a 1000. it's prompted the prime minister to ask hope frances, to make amends to the community. i really hope that this time it will lead towards the pope coming on to the canadian soil and apologizing apologizing directly. also in the program this our as the highly infectious delta strain of cobra plunges rush into a new wave of about demick. moscow makes proof of vaccination q r codes monitoring to be able to get into restaurants. pub, the cow phase or a man in the capital puts this.