from when he did this, but then when they came to power, they pursued big exact same policy, a trump as we expected in iran. so ultimately, the only way forward is for the americans to recognize that they cannot get confessions from iran by killing ordinary iranians through barbaric sanction. iran has an agreement with western governments. and if western governments think that the iranian nuclear program should be contained or that its scope should be limited, then they should go and implement the deal. and and also the fir has literally been flying in the russian military with an elite selection of military dogs put through their paces and a power of shoot drill. i will look at the special harnesses strapped through,

developed by the russian tech. no dynamics allows dogs up to 45 kilos to be safely attached to the power tube before hurting themselves out of the aircraft or the peck and then perish down directly into battle fields. so far, the test to being carried out from a height of 13000 feet. the us, we understand a special breathing apparatus has been developed for the dogs, so they can jump from even higher. just just before we go here on the internet, give you a quick reminder. if this hours are developing story and due by the city was rocked by a loud blast on wednesday night emergency services all tackling a blaze on a container ship carrying flammable materials. doc to do buys jeb l l e port local authorities have set the fire is now under control and there are no casualties. you can pick up more details on that online at auto dot com. in the meantime, we are back in 28. me

rather driven by jan, shaped by control center. those in me dares thing. we dare to ask me. ah ah, ah hello and welcome to cross

talk. we're all things considered. i'm peter labelle. we're used to hearing you will, leads messaging about the importance of values. not everyone in the block agrees. in fact, a growing number of conservative and populous forces are speaking out against what some called brussels colonial outlook, conservative and populous talk. the language of family and culture in leaks talk a values to create a european superstate the the cross sucking the e u in crisis. i'm joined by my guess. i'm scared in london. he's a meritus professor of international history and former convener of european studies at london school of economics. also in london, we have donald so soon he has ameritas professor of comparative european history at queen mary university of london. and in syracuse, we cross at glen morgan. he is a professor in the political science department at maxwell school at syracuse

university. alright gentlemen, crossfire, groves and effects, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always let me go to alan 1st. in london, the sweeney and prime minister recently condemned the eas western states for imposing, quote, imaginary european values without respecting local cultures. how do you react to that? because we had a letter come out with 16 major figures representing parties all across the the block, very agitated and pushing back against what they think is brussel brussels intruding upon their local affairs. how do we act, what the us will be, the prime minister had to say? well, it doesn't cause any surprise because there's a great divide in europe in your opinion, just matters of culture, particularly. ready all gay culture and various other things casting culture the big protection of the catholic church and. ready it is who writes of family rights

and poland. ready discriminatory legislation hungry against gay and lesbian people. and this is creating a cleavage the letter that you refer to. it's a strange because it criticizes the european union for being forward to the federalist pass to which is that still committed by funding treaty? close to union is a criticism by the didn't know what was called populace parties, but this is the anti bureaucratic parties. you don't want to see the sent to expand, but it's going to get anyways, it's just a political gesture as far as i could see. ok, but it is a political just speaks to the divisions in your inside the ok. let me go to donald . that's the same question here. i mean it's interesting what alan had to say is that it's a lot of noise. a lot of light now,

but not much heat. would you agree with that? yes for once i agree with that it's a lot of noise. and also it's, it's as usual, giving the european union more importance than it actually has when it comes to values. there is not very much the you has imposed, i mean, one can say for instance, you can't be a member of the repeat union. it's jeff capital punishment. that is, that, that's so the thing, as for european values, values, historically speaking, it was constructed and there was people talk about british values or french values . and they seem to have a list of stuff that i think is goods. and then they put them in the baskets, we says our, our values. but otherwise, there is not very much the european union has very limited powers. you know, for instance, it hasn't got any power on foreign policy. it doesn't go to any power on the

taxation. it hasn't got any power on welfare. so the 3 most important powers of the state are actually totally absent into europe and union. ok was not very interesting. let's go to sarah case here. but at the same time, we have europe in union lead, so threatening to sanction people and countries like hungry prime minister abound. but his reaction is that he's elected on his values on his platform here. i mean, this is an obvious tension right here, because urban will say we, i know you don't like me. you know, i know you don't like my politics, but i repeatedly being elected because of my platform. how do you square the circle there? go ahead and fair kids. well, the you is committed to certain basic values around liberty, democracy, and the rule of law. and countries like hungary and poland knew about that when

they signed up. unfortunately, over the last few years old and in particular has violated various dimensions of the rule of law. and the e. u has discovered that it is embarrassing the weak in its ability to force or band and also the polish leadership to live up to their commitments. and now we're seeing a, a conflict which i fear the you will lose because it lacks the, the power to, to force poland and hungary to comply with their commitments. ok, well alan, what is, how does that for both, for the european union moving forward? because if the polls in the hungarians can just, you know, say we're not going to follow your edicts, should they remain members of it? should they be welcomed in the european union? because they'll be other populace and conservatives. they'll say, well, the gary ends in the pulse can do it. why can we, i mean, you don't to see the,

the, the slippery slope possibility here. not that i particularly against that either i believe in the democratic process. ok. people elected. these officials go ahead. alan well, the trouble is that you will be in union is a non elect to bureaucratic institution, which is wrong by an assortment, to be transferred. no democratic monday, along with the people that are opposing the pose on getting so whoever do a democratic monday, so it makes life very difficult. i mean, the dutch probably minister said the calls and get in should just quit. but, you know, there's no way of making these people quit the snow mechanism whereby they can be for night. and again, it's not just them. i mean, the germans, for example, the monetary policy. the german constitutional court is link markers and saying that if they your opinion, central bank persists,

was quoted of using to a large extent. the german constitutional cool may say that germany will no longer take part in any of this. so the germans are also saying that for democratic and constitutional reasons, germany kind of becomes to sneak over it in the, in that cannot make matches by the european central bank and by the commission. so it's not just the hose and the games on culture. the germans are also saying that, you know, make matters them in the u. p. in banking system to carry on the way it is. so there are also tensions, but there is no mechanism live by the european commission. can actually force national governments if it's a key issue into following its lines. so it's not obvious how things are going to

be patched. i'm just surprised that many of the so called pop could a spot is still want to work within the european union. i don't see why they don't do well. vision didn't come all together. but i mean, i mean, i was the to you kid provides. if this was happened, they will lead to the so called pop the british party. i could never sign up to because of policy was to come i all together. well, i want to, i want to get to the read. i want to get to the british example in a 2nd here. let me go to donald here. i mean, in light of what allen just said there. i mean, if the germans that want to go follow through on monetary policy, the polls in the hungarians have cultural issues. i mean, is this turning into the e u of optionality where, you know, there's no downside, there's no punishment for it. i mean, how is, how do you keep cohesion then if people can pick and choose go ahead donald. this is, this is the old issue. some people may need to, you're a skeptic attribute to the union enormous powers,

then complain that these powers are there from non elected the people. but the reality of the thing is that the vast, the event, the electrons in europe are loyal to their state, to their nation fake they vote for national policies, even when they vote for europe in parliament, they voted to punish or give a prize to their own m p 's to their own petitions. in other words, it is stated what the goal is to say, you know, help for the battery. it is the, the come. it is a union of nation states. this nation states have kept all their powers. if they don't want to be entangled, they're not in chang and they don't want a single currency. they don't have a single single currency. and there's nothing anyone can do about it. so for, for many years, including in britain, in the last what it seems written,

drawing the, the european union has always been a terrain of dispute. but in fact, there was very little the europe union could impose on britain. okay, was go, it's go to syracuse here. i mean, you know, one of the issues, particularly if we can focus on the hungarians in the polls is that they focus a lot on families here. and so you have this kind of odd juxtaposition where, because of demographics for the union, at a whole, they need population growth. but then they would say, the hungarians polls, for example, why don't we just be more friendly to families and have population growth organically, naturally within the european union, instead of importing it. and so, and then the hungarians and poles and others in eastern europe. so we did so why you're immigrants, we work part of that process of having people come in. so why should they take them in, for example, go ahead and fair accuse. well they have to take them in because if you decide they're going to have a common boundary, a common border,

they will state have to live up to their obligations. i would want to say something going correction to what alan said. i don't think it's the commission that runs it is meant the states and also and also to the question why don't hungry impose leave . it's because they've got a sizable chunk of gdp from you money. there's no conceivable way they will let you hang on, hang on, hang on, finish up, go ahead. keep going. that's. i mean that's, that's the root of the masses, hungary and poland of desperate for you money. and they're trying to take the money and not live up to their commitments. ok, well, and you want to jump in there real quick before we go to the break, go ahead. allen. just one thing this attention between was being said inside accused what's being said, london told is saying that they use no problem whatsoever. it's just a collection of nation states that comp time. so it has my powers

on the cisco web power to defend gentlemen. i'm going to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the e. u and crisis. stay with our team, the ah, special summer solutions where we look at the solutions. i'm here with safety harbor and we've got a special guest, stacy, right out there, mccloud of gold money dot com. he raised amazing pieces over there are lots of blog posts, research and all sorts of stuff. i recommend you check it out, your latest pieces out there called too much liquidity and inflation assets and consumer prices. so this is definitely the biggest theme of 2021 and that is

inflation. the the news welcome back to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter bell, remind you we're discussing the e you in crisis. ah. okay, let's go back to donald in london so far in this program we have 2 contradictory ideas. the e u is just the all power comes from the member states. and then just suppose that we have this all powerful commission. what is it? because that's what the arguments i hear all of the time. it's not democratic, faceless bureaucrats. but then the other argument is no, all the power comes from the member states. ok, how, how do you,

how do you balance that donald, go ahead. when it's obvious that the power comes from the council of ministers, because it's an agreement between states. the states get together, the council of ministers appoints, of commission and the commission then and the commission then. and next to a number of the propositions, we just obtain a majority the that is the way it has been. the idea that the commission runs european affairs or interferes in hunger and culture. is absolute nonsense? well, i mean they, they are bound and the hungarians are being threatened with sanctions. i don't know if they'll ever come through with that. it's good. it's eric is here. i mean, is that just bluster ok because i mean, i watch. i think that would come from the other states from the other state. ok, fine. well, i mean, alright. and then then what, when you say no, what is the, what is the remedy? if we've already agreed in this program that there's really no penalty,

no sanction. you want to stay with that donald in london? yes. the, the, what people say would petition say about the repeating union is largely determined by the european union, but by domestic considerations. but what is it that will work well with their electorate? the euro skeptic, an extra is increased enormously over the last 20 years. it has increased in including in countries which were enthusiastic about europe such as italy, which now the larger. 1 parties were, you're a skeptic party in france, marines up and has made me nearly 50 percent of the of the vote. she's the euro skeptics, and that's one to leave. now, what you said to me is that you're a skeptic. so the increase in your skepticism can only increase the number of times, but it, titian will say it's all of the photographs, and it's so much better to say solar photo bressard than to say, so my fault. well, it's going to therapy. if you're not in your head an agreement,

go ahead to explain why. well, i think that the politicians do tend to blame europe for their own failures and deficiencies when you're a salt mcdonald is right there. and now you're a skeptic copies like how be nice lager? who do embrace robust? you're a skeptic positions, although one wonders whether when push comes to shove, they will really actually carry through efforts to pull out. i mean, believe it's heavily dependent on financial capital in venice or region and it is not in their interests to pull out of the european union. and i suspect that the lake with back down which comes to shop. well, i mean, if i can stay with you, i think that's a very interesting gambit because it's a good electoral platform. if you win on i've been, what do you do? because they is there really an appetite appetite to take a break that move here. and there's not a lot of indication there are,

let me go to you. i mean, has the european union learned anything from briggs? it trying desperately to, to beat britain into some kind of post colonial status in regards, but not, not as a sovereign state, but is a renegade problem. so, i mean, it looks on britain just the same way the china loops on taiwan. it resents bitterly, the state is left and i mean, life is difficult as possible for the british. but unfortunately, britons doing very well without the you are pretty and you and you know, ready. and this isn't it. is trying to destroy the city of london is trying to make life as difficult as possible in loveland. and it still has this imperial complex. and it's very, very frightening. the example of britain will spread elsewhere. for example, macro was asked if the french had to refresh them,

how would the boot and he said that would put to leave the european union. but he wasn't giving them a referendum. and i think the pen is now offering for x. it referendum to the french should to be elected president of france. well ok, if i go to donald, how do you, how do you feel? how do you feel about that? i mean, if, if the, if the chance were given to the italians or to the french, that they would go that direction to go the direction of briggs. it because there's, there's that there's that there's a school of thought out there which because of brags, which i think is really quite interesting. and it's coming from europe. is that ban referenda. but since you don't want to hear a democratic vote, i mean the people are interpreting that referendum and very different ways. one is, is too much democracy, which i find rather peculiar coming from europe. but other people say it's dangerous because people don't understand what they're voting for. donald, how do you reply to that? well, if the italian and french i think it's unlikely that they will have

a referendum on something like breakfast because that might to lose it. in the sense that italy and france might actually leave big mistake, david cameron made is that you're not calculated what the results might be. he felt, or rather he thought he was going to win and put a stop to the sniping from the right wing of his party from the euro. skeptic from those john major, call the bastards. he lost. he lost the referendum. that is the lesson that may be the italians when it's interesting, that's actually the saline lake or north, which is now called they go since they've been in this government, this big, large coalition has changed slightly. he's june over europe because he said he got money. he knows that it's not very good at this stage to talk against europe union. so he hasn't said anything against the europe in union in the last 6 months

. i mean him and not last, you know, was these, but it isn't there a bunch of opportunities to who would use whatever is there, you know, the to get loads? nothing new here. why calling politicians opportunity is an understatement. i completely agree with you there. say something worse, but i'd say something more intimate. i can't say it on television. let. let's go back to say, rick, you hear, well, you know, one of the claims, again, these populace in conservatives have, with the e u writ large is that it's attempting to create a super state. how do you fall down on that? because, you know, explained to me once by a very prominent eurocrats, is that a crisis is always an opportunity for the you to deepen integration, crisis integration. how do you feel about that? go ahead. well, i think historically that has been the case and europe has integrated come together through

a process lucky of self. it was an elite lead process that didn't involve the dean of the de moines of europe. to great extent, i think that process is now come to an end, and i think that any further integration will have to be undertaken openly and debated, evolving all the people of europe. and i would hope that they would, that they would commit to building something like it united states of europe, because i think a, a, europe of nation states would likely return in europe to, into war levels of dysfunction and economic misery. well, that's a very strong statement there, alan. how do you feel about that? because that is the charge that we've, you know, and it was all around the briggs that debate here is that the, that brussels wants too much power. and it is trying to one size fits all. i mean, that was at least the claims that were made by the briggs. it tears ok. now i ask you, did they learn anything from it?

because there are, there are, we've all agreed on this program is that your skepticism is on the rise. what is exactly means is very unclear to me because it seems to me, it is more of a demand for reform and not to got the entire project. go ahead, allen. well, i do understand the letter being signed by the circle populace parties. life view is that the bull you integrate, the less efficient it becomes gross becomes less, most of its major policies of fail, the years fail, europe stagnate and do this since the year was introduced, the italian economies patent students still says in touch of the are the more integration, you can actually achieve the less efficient, less than a critique, less economic viable. the whole thing becomes and if it wants to go towards fiscal union, then they'll be a huge political battle,

which will divide it up. probably if it wants to do much, but the euro situation, there will be a bond prices and you might end up with the disappearance of the use. and i think you are very fragile european union say, fred, i think the divisions of a severe, the ones of a culture of the ones who been discussing, but they're konami programs of the worst ones. and i think the euro itself is a currency. it's enormously fragile, and if that goes, then the whole thing goes, donald talk, we're talking about the fragility of it all. but at the same time, one can make the argument, it does have this staying power to muddle through. i mean, again, i mean, some people will say, you know, it's not completely broken. that's why you don't need to completely fix it. but i mean, that's not particularly a, something that you know,

you should be proud of. i mean, just muddling through, i mean, where is the european project going right now? because as, as we heard earlier, more integration will have to be more transparent. there is, there are many people claim that there is a democracy deficit. where, where does he, how does it move this project move forward, where people can post by and affinities with it. go ahead donald, when, when people talk about the super state, my reaction is to study a bit of history. the creation of states has always been from the top. a state then imposes on the whole population. a single language. there are more than one, which is an education system. a police force, an army, and a bureaucracy and a system of legislation. and then battalions become italians of french become

french, of british, we can branches and so on and so forth. so for the european union to become a superstate, it would need to be conquered or something that has, i mean, with the exception of yugoslavia, this saturday, an example of states which have come together by the the accession of different existing states. as for the future, i know that people will blame the present economic circumstances on the union. but the fact is that the robot downturn of 2008, which has been the most serious economic crisis to affect the global most of it has to do with european union. or we are a gentleman. i'm afraid we have run out of time we've. we've been fascinating discussion here. i want to many thanks to my guess in london and it's eric hughes. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and remember prospect the

ah, the british and american governments have often been accused of destroying lives in their own interest. while you see in this, these techniques is the state devising message to end essentially destroy personality of an individual lifetime. means this is how one doctors, theories were allegedly used in psychological warfare against the prisoners deemed a danger to the state. that was the foundation for the method of psychological interrogation, psychological torture, disseminated within the us intelligence community, and worldwide among allies for the next 30 years. and how the victim say they still live with the consequences today.

the the ah, this is national in your headlines this evening from moscow. the caribbean nation of hazy and poses marshall low for 15 days. it comes off to the shock us us the notion of its president in his home a leading toxic journal in the u. k. colds, russian sport, and job quoted, safe and effective, stressing the lack of severe side effects, such as a ledger blood clots linked to some other also on the program we hear from a german red cross member who is raising the alarm over a growing number of those shifting their appointments for a 2nd corona virus injection, that's as a quote. cobit hesitancy trend continues to spread around the world.