find themselves well to part. we choose to look for common ground in the headlines this evening. from moscow, the caribbean nation. hazy imposes martial law for 15 days off the shop fascination of its president. when his home or countries please, she said that for my son or you have been killed and 2 others, the same a leading scientific journal and the u. k. calls russia sport and jobs safe and effective. stressing the lack of severe side effects like blood clots, which have been linked to other vaccine. and we hear from a german red cross member who is raising that all over a growing number of those, skipping their appointment for a 2nd corona virus job. that's a cope with hesitancy to friends, continue to spread. well, what was that?

it's a plus one. for those of you in the united states, what service will you take? it's news views, shoes, you don't any will be here in what times are. good morning global news headline. we will see you back then and what else? ah, ah, ah ah, ah ah. hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things considered. i'm peter labelle. we're used to hearing you will, leads messaging about the importance of values. not everyone in the block agrees. in fact, a growing number of conservative and populous forces are speaking out against what some call brussels colonial outlook, conservative and populous talk. the language of family and culture in leaps, talked of values to create

a european superstate. the the the cross walk in the e. u in crisis. i'm joined by my guess. i'm scared in london. he's america's professor of international history and former convener of european studies at london school of economics. also in london, we have donald, so as soon he has ameritas professor of comparative european history at queen mary university of london and in syracuse, we cross glenn morgan. he is a professor in the political science department at maxwell school at syracuse university. alright, gentlemen, cross groves and effect. that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always let me go to alan 1st. in london, the sweeney and prime minister recently condemned the eas western states for imposing, quote, imaginary european values without respecting local cultures. how do you react to that? because we had a letter come out with 16 major figures representing parties all across the the

block, very agitated and pushing back against what they think is brussel brussels intruding upon their local affairs. how do you react to what the us will be? the prime minister had to say, well, it doesn't cause any surprise because there's a great device in your opinion, just matters of culture, particularly. ready all gay culture and various other things casting culture, the big protection of the catholic church and cohen to. ready destroy rights of family rights and pulling. ready discriminatory legislation hungry against gay and lesbian people. and this is creating a cleavage the letter that you refer to. it's a strange because it criticizes the european union for being forward to the federalist pass to which is that still committed by funding treaty?

close to union is a criticism by the didn't know what was called populace parties, but this is the anti bureaucratic parties. you don't want to see the sent to expand, but it's going to get anyways is just the political gesture, as far as i could see. ok, but it is a political just speaks to the divisions in new york inside the u. okay, let me go to donald. that's the same question here. i mean, it's interesting what alan had to say is that it's a lot of noise, a lot of light. now, but not much heat, would you agree with that? yes for once i agree with that it's a lot of noise. and also it's, it's as usual, giving the european union the more important. so then it actually has, when it comes to values, there is not very much the you have imposed, i mean,

one can say for instance, you can't be a member of the repeat union. it's jeff capital punishment. that is, that, that's so the thing as for european values then use, historically speaking, it was constructed and there was people talk about british values or french values . and they seem to have a list of stuff that i think is goods. and then they put them in the baskets, we says our, our values. but otherwise, there's not that much. the european union has very limited powers. for instance, it hasn't got any power on foreign policy. it doesn't go to any power on the taxation. it hasn't got any power on welfare. so the 3 most important powers of a state are actually totally absent into europe and union. ok was not very interesting. let's go to sarah case here. but at the same time, we have europe in union lead, so threatening to sanction people and countries like hungry prime minister abound.

but his reaction is that he's elected on his values on his platform here. i mean, this is an obvious tension right here, because urban will say we, i know you don't like me. you know, i know you don't like my politics, but i repeatedly being elected because of my platform. how do you square the circle there? go ahead and fair kids. well, the you is committed to certain basic values around liberty, democracy, and the rule of law. and countries like hungry and poland knew about that when they signed up. unfortunately, over the last few years, all that in particular has violated various dimensions of the rule of law. and the e. u has discovered that it is embarrassing the weak in its ability to force or by and, and also the polish leadership to live up to their commitments. and now we are

seeing a, a conflict which i fear the you will lose because it lacks the, the power to, to force poland and hungary to comply with their commitments. ok, well alan, what does house side for both for the european union moving forward? because if the polls in the hungarians can just, you know, say we're not going to follow your edicts, should they remain members of it? should they be welcomed in the european union? because they'll be other populace and conservatives. they'll say, well, the gary and the pulse can do it. why can we, i mean, you don't, you see the, the, the slippery slope possibility here. not that i'm particularly against that either . i believe in the democratic process. ok. people elected these officials go ahead alan. well, the trouble is that you are in union is an elective bureaucratic institution, which is wrong by an assortment of bureaucrats who no democratic monday along with the people that are opposing the pose on getting. so whoever do

a democratic monday. so it makes life very difficult. i mean the probably minister said the calls. ready and get in, she just quit, but you know, there's no way of making these people quit the snow mechanism whereby they can be for a night. and again, it's not just them. i mean, the germans, for example, the monetary policy. the german constitutional court is link markers and saying that if you opinion central bank persists, was quantitative easing to a large extent the german constitutional cool may say that germany will no longer take part in any of this. so the germans are also saying that for democratic and constitutional reasons, germany kind of becomes to sneak over it and that cannot make matches by the european central bank and by the commission. so it's not just the hose and the

games on culture. the germans are also saying that, you know, make matters them in a lot of the sort of banking system to carry on the way it is. so there are also tensions, but there is no mechanism live by the european commission. can naturally force national governments if it's a key issue into following its line. so it's not obvious how things are going to be patched up. i'm just surprised that many of the circle pop could, as part is still want to work within the european union. i don't see why they don't do what version didn't come all together. but i mean, i mean i was the u. k provides, if this was happened, they will lead to the so called pop the british party. i could never sign up to because of policy was to come i all together. well, i want to,

i want to get to the read. i want to get to the british example in a 2nd here. let me go to donald here. i mean, in light of what allen just said there. i mean, if the germans that want to go follow through on monetary policy, the polls in hungary and subcultural issues, i mean is, is turning into the you of optionality where, you know, there's no downside. there's no punishment for it. i mean, how is, how do you keep cohesion? then if people can pick and choose go ahead donald. this is, this is the old issue. some people are skeptic attribute to the p and union enormous powers. then complain that these powers are there from non elected the people. but the reality of the thing is that the vast, that the electrons in europe are loyal to their state to that nation. fake they vote for national policies, even when they vote for europe and parliament, they voted to punish or give

a prize to their own. m. p. 's to their own petitions. in other words, it is stated, what the goal is to say, you know, help with the tree. it is the, the come. it is a union of nation states. this nation states have kept all their powers. you really don't want to be changing, they're not in change. and if they don't want a single currency, they don't have a single single currency. and there's nothing anyone can do about it. so the further for many years, including in britain, in the last 6, britain joined the, the european union has always been a terrain of dispute when in fact there was very little the europe union could impose on britain. it was go, it's going to eric is here. i mean, you know, one of the issues, particularly if we can focus on the hungarian from the polls, is that they focus a lot on families here until you have this kind of odd juxtaposition. where,

because of demographics for the union, at a whole, they need a population growth, but then they would say the hungarians pulse, for example, why don't we just be more friendly to families and have population growth organically, naturally, within the european union, instead of importing it and so and then the hungarians, and polls and others, and each year and so we did. so while you're immigrants, we work part of that process of having people come in. so why should they take them in, for example, go ahead and fair accuse. well they have to take them in because if you decide they're going to have a common boundary, a common border, they will state have to live up to their obligations. i would want to say something going correction to what alan said. i don't think it's the commission that runs it is meant to states and also and also to the question why don't hungry impose leave . it's because they got a sizable chunk of gdp from you money. there's no conceivable way they will let you

hang on, hang on, hang on, finish up, go ahead. keep going. that's. i mean that's, that's the root of the masses, hungary and poland of desperate for you money. and they're trying to take the money and not live up to their commitments. ok, well, and you want to jump in there real quick. we probably go to the break, go ahead. allen. just one thing this attention between was being said inside accused what's being said, london donald is saying that they use no problem whatsoever. it's just a collection of nation states that comp time it says my powers, all the cisco web, there's no power to defend gentlemen. i'm going to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the e u in crisis. stay with our team. the

ah me who won the fund, i make no certainly no borders and a lot of number please. as emerge. we don't have authority. we go to the back seen the whole world needs to take action and be ready. not a joke. people are just, you know. 2 come crisis we can do better, we should be better. everyone is contributing each in their own way. but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is paid for the response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are together in long,

long when i would show the same wrong when all just don't the rule. yes to shape out the same because the after an engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves well the part we she's to look for common ground in the welcome across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter, isabel. remind you we're discussing the e u in crisis. ah, okay, let's go back to donald in london so far in this program we have 2 contradictory ideas. the e u is just the all power comes from the member states. and then just supposed to

that we have this all powerful commission. what is it? because that's what the arguments i hear all of the time. it's not democratic, faceless bureaucrats. but then the other argument is no, all the power comes from the member states. ok, how did, how do you, how do you balance that donald, go ahead. when it's obvious that the power comes from the council of ministers, because it's an agreement between states, the states get together, the council of ministers appoints of commission and the commission then. and the commission then an actor, a number of propositions which up obtain a majority the that is the way it has been. the idea that the commission runs european affairs or interferes in hunger and culture. is absolute nonsense? well, i mean, they are bound and the hungarians are being threatened with sanctions. i don't know . phil ever come through with that. it's good. it's eric is here. i mean,

is that just bluster ok because i mean watch that would come from the states from the other state. ok, fine. well, i mean, alright. and then then what, when you say no, what is the, what is the remedy if, if we've already agreed in this program, that there's really no penalty, no sanction. you want to stay with that donald in london. yes. the, the what the, what people say, what petition say about the repeating union is largely determined not by the european union, but by domestic considerations. but what is it that will work well with their electorate? the euro, skeptical extra, is increased the enrollment over the last 20 years. it has increased in including in countries which were and to just think about europe such as italy, which now the largest part is the euro. skeptic party in france marine, the pen has made me nearly 50 percent of the of the vote. she's the euro skeptics, and that's one to leave. now, what you said to me is that you are

a skeptic. so the increase in your skepticism can only increase the number of times, but it ition will say it's all in the photo brush and you so much better to say solar photo bressard than to say. so my fault. well, it's going to therapy is you're not in your head an agreement. go ahead, explain why? well, i think that the politicians do tend to blame europe for their own failures and deficiencies when europe's fault. medulla is right there. and now you are skeptic copies like sal beanies lager, who do embrace robust your skeptic positions. although one wonders whether when push comes to shove, they will really actually carry through efforts to pull out. i mean, believe it's heavily dependent on financial capital in venice or region and it is not in their interests to pull out of the european union like suspect that the late

it was back down when push comes to shop. well, i mean if i, if i can stay with you, i think that's a very interesting gambit because it's a good electoral platform. but if you win on, i've been, what do you do? because it's a really, an appetite appetite to take a break that move here. and there's not a lot of indication there are let, let me go to you. i mean, has the european union learned anything from briggs, it trying desperately to, to beat britain into some kind of post colonial status in regards, but not, not as a sovereign state, but is a renegade problem. so, i mean, it looks on britain just the same way the china loose on taiwan. it resents bitterly. the state is left and i'm on, i mean, life is difficult as possible for the british. but unfortunately, britons doing very well without the you are pretty and you and you know, ready and this isn't it. is trying to destroy the city of london is trying to

make life as difficult as possible in loveland. and it still has this imperial complex. and it's very, very frightening. the example of britain will spread elsewhere. for example, macro was asked if the french had to refresh them, how would the vote? and he said they would put to leave the european union. but he wasn't giving them a referendum. and i think the pen is now offering for x. it referendum to the french should to be elected president of france. well ok, if i go to donald, how do you, how do you feel? how do you feel about that? i mean, if, if the, if the chance were given to the italians or to the french, that they would go that direction to go the direction of briggs. it because there's the, there's that there's that there's a school of thought out there which because of brags, which i think is really quite interesting. and it's coming from europe. is that ban referenda. but since you don't want to hear a democratic vote, i mean the people are interpreting that referendum and very different ways. one is,

is too much democracy, which i find rather peculiar coming from europe. but other people say it's dangerous because people don't understand what they're voting for. donald, how do you reply to that? well, if the italian and french i think it's unlikely that they will have a referendum on something like breakfast because that might to lose it. in the sense that italy and france might actually leave big mistake, david cameron made is that, you know, calculated what the results might be. he felt, or rather he thought he was going to win and put a stop to the sniping from the right wing of his party from the euro. skeptic from those john major, call the bastards. he lost. he lost the referendum. that is the lesson that may be the italians when it's interesting, that's actually the saline lake or north, which is now called lego. since they've been in this government, this big,

large coalition has changed slightly. he's june over europe because he said he got money. he knows that it's not very good at this stage to talk against syrup in union. so he hasn't said anything against the europe in union in the last 6 months . i mean, he may not last. you know, there was these but there are a bunch of opportunities to who would use whatever is there, you know, the to get votes, nothing new here. why calling politicians opportunity is an understatement. i completely agree with you there. say something worse, but i'd say something more intimate. i can say it on television. let's go back to say, rick, you hear? well, you know, one of the claims, again, these populace in conservatives have with the e u writ large is that it's attempting to create a super state. how do you fall down on that? because, you know, explained to me once by a very prominent eurocrats, is that

a crisis is always an opportunity for the you to deepen integration, crisis integration. how do you feel about that? go ahead. well, i think historically that has been the case and europe has integrated come together through a process. lucky of stealth. it was an elite lead process that didn't involve the dean of the de moines of europe. to great extent, i think that process is now come to an end, and i think that any further integration will have to be undertaken openly and debated, evolving all the people of europe. and i would hope that they would, that they would commit to building something like a united states of europe, because i think a, a, europe of nation states would likely return in europe to, into war levels of dysfunction and economic misery. well, that's a very strong statement there, alan. how do you feel about that?

because that is the charge and we've, you know, and it was all around the briggs that debate here is that the, that brussels wants too much power. and it is trying to one size fits all. i mean, that was at least the claims that were made by the briggs. it tears ok. now i ask you, did they learn anything from it? because there's, there, we've all agreed on this program. is that euro skepticism is on the rise? what is exactly means is very unclear to me because it seems to me it's more of a demand for reform and not to got the entire project. go ahead, allen. well, i do understand the letter being signed by the circle populace. parties live view is that the bull you integrate, the less efficient it becomes gross becomes less most of its major policies of fail, the years fail europe stagnate and do this. and so you was introduced the italian, they call them is patent students still says in touch of the or the more

integration you actually achieve, the less efficient, less them a critique less economically viable. the whole thing becomes, and if it wants to go towards fiscal union, then they'll be a huge political battle, which will divide it up. probably if it wants to do much, but the euro situation, there will be a bond prices you might end up with the disappearance of the use. and i think you are very fragile european union, say french, i think the divisions of a severe ones of a culture of the ones who been discussing, but they can only programs to the worst ones. and i think the euro itself is a currency, is enormously fragile. and if that goes, then the whole thing goes,

donald talk, we're talking about the fragility of it all. but at the same time, one can make the argument, it does have this staying power to muddle through. i mean, again, i mean, some people will say, you know, it's not completely broken. that's why you don't need to completely fix it. but i mean, that's not particularly a, something that you know, you should be proud of. i mean, just muddling through, i mean, where is the european project going right now? because as, as we heard earlier, more integration will have to be more transparent. there is, there are many people claim that there is a democracy deficit. where, where does he, how does it move this project move forward, where people can stop by and affinities with it. go ahead. donald, when, when people talk about the super state to my reaction is to start a bit of history. the creation of states has always been from the top. a state then imposes on the local population. a single language. there are more than one lang,

which is an education system. a police force, an army, and a bureaucracy, and a system of legislation. and then the tardy and become italians of french become french to the british, become branches, and so on and so forth. so for the european union to become a super state, it will need to be conquered or something that has i mean, with the exception of yugoslavia, this saturday, an example of states which have come together by the the accession of different existing states. as for the future, i know that people will blame the present economic circumstances on the p and union . but the fact is that the global downturn of 2008, which has been the most serious economic crisis, to affect the global most of it,

has to do with european union. or we are a gentleman. i'm afraid we've run out of time we've, we've been fascinating discussion here. i want to many thanks to my guess in london and it's eric hughes. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our to see you next time and remember prospect the ah, special summer solutions where we look at the solutions safety harbor day. we've got a special guest, stacy, right out there mccloud of gold money dot com. he writes amazing pieces over there are lots of blog posts, research, and all sorts of stuff. i recommend you check it out, your latest pieces out there called too much liquidity and inflation assets and consumer prices. so this is definitely the biggest theme of 2021, and that is inflation.

the british and american government often being accused of destroying lives in their own interest. while you see in this, these techniques is the state devising message to end to essentially destroy personality of an individual lifetime. means this is how one doctors, theories were allegedly used in psychological warfare against prisoners deemed a danger to the state. that was the foundations of the method of psychological interrogation, psychological torture, disseminated within the us intelligence community, and worldwide among allies for the next 30 years. been to the victim, say they still with the consequences today the

so if someone wants to authorize abroad in europe, let's say a plan protection product. this person because this person or this company, the applicant, has to provide data that allows us, as the risk assessors to judge whether these products disable or not. and this information comes from the applicant and the studies that are commissioned by the applicant to allow us to assess the safety are paid by the applicant, obviously. so it's the intellectual property of the applicant. and we can publish barks of the studies in the current legal framework, but we also have to respect the business, confidentiality of the africans. so there is a balance to be found between transparency as much as possible, but also to protect the investment of companies into their product innovation.