to crane and country, but on the opposition to the northern island protocol, which has effectively placed an administrative border in the either c. today, i'll speak to buying a toy for many years, a living labor politician. but at heart, i know stood unionist, one of the pray movers of the recent quote case against the protocol. and then to northern ireland, top online commentator mic fealty to assess whether essentially old province has a feature. but 1st, your teeth move messages in response i show last week preaching doctor to ken of the international vaccine. simple now about assigned to job appointment as a new health accuracy. bought me all by says he's more interested in finding contracts for his contacts. to worry about his health portfolio, crystal can it says, i says no long term data, it's impossible to clean the actions have been successful. i need to king says, i've had both my vaccinations and i am perfectly fine. and finally i dobson says i

5, both pfizer vaccinations in january and in march to to work no issues, no hassles, no side effects. aagot mckay who spent the 1st 2 years as a prominent labor m. p for vote fall in london. however, on her elevation to the house of lords in 2020, she turns her political routes. i've binary who of while ho and rough and in the county of alex interviews her i size the house of lords k toy, 50 years, a labor m. p for a vauxhall half and all an island loss because you grew up in the and the problem. so that's your, your home or your home grabbed. yes, i was born and bred there and i went school and i went to college, qualified to see teacher then decided that i wanted to go to the capital city of my country, which with london came a long who took an economic degree. i don't know very much, but i can, i'd like to have them basically stayed and long more than ever since that i was

back and forward quite a lot. so it's always been important to me when i 1st came over and with an m p being from northern on. and it was actually pretty difficult because you were sort of treated when you were from a sort of union. it's background to some kind of almost pariah within the labor party. but, and yet he is a labor m p of in a huge number of issues you have known for being outspoken on, but how much was the situation on island, the fixture of your politics. so it was that and the back button because your they m p for voc so well obviously it couldn't have been a big priority because you were so involved with your own constituency, a very, very poor constituency with huge problems and enormous amounts of care. we're looking back on it, but there were always issues that, you know, i felt very strongly about. and one of the issues actually was an internal matter because the neighbor party never allowed people until very recently to even join

the liberal party in northern ireland. and yet when i was growing up, there was a northern ireland labor party that had labor and peace, some very, very well known and good labor people. labor then would not allow. it ended when the troubles began, basically because it became very sectarian, you know, you're either one side or the other. whereas the neighbor was trying to bring people together. and then the neighbor party k would not allow people to join. eventually that was only ended because a very dedicated g m. b worker took threatened to take their party to court. they had to allow people to join, but they still don't allow anyone to put up candidates. so you join the labor party in northern ireland, but you can't actually vote for labor. and occasionally you get people standing as sort of labor brackets, pretend candidates, but it's not the same. and i think that's been a real democratic deficit. you know, i think it's labor had organized property there from the beginning. the

conservatives take it sometimes they're, they're quite active. sometimes they're not. but if it been to me in stream parties really concerned, i think it could have made a difference to the idea that there's not real politics and northern ireland. and probably that part, the reason i left recent times, i mean, you've been very associated as a prominent labor brakes. if you have a fight, the most prominent labor breaks, if you have some sensors, when you're thinking and sounds of the overall argument or was the implications for non island of a part of your consideration when you are advocating withdrawal from the european union? no, because you see, i see nor than i was very much part of the united kingdom and it was a decision to leave as a u. k. and i, i've never really understood what i do understand why the border between northern company has been become such an issue, but there was no need for it to become such an issue. and i think if you look back, you will remember that when we 1st voted to leave for a very short period of time,

the irish government were involved in discussions with the u. k. s civil service level, about technical arrangements. what could happen then? teach up for radco came in and he stopped all of that because i think by that time, you know, i think the european union had actually realized that northern on with a very useful little bit of the united kingdom, that they could drip drip away at the british government and annoy, annoyed them and indeed punished them and it was used as a kind of weapon. at the same time, the irish government sought as also wanting to be very much part of the use of sticking by the use. but also, i think they saw it as a useful opportunity to, to get a united ireland in terms of economics to start economic trade together 1st and then leading to united ireland. se hope and bring us right up to date as no bias. holy, a, back in northern ireland,

you've been one of the leading progenitor of the, the legal case against the protocol. and although you are successful in the schools, you felt you established quite an important principle. tell us that the very important principle was established and we, we lost in the 1st the high court in, in northern ireland. but the judge did room that the protocol had breached article 6 of the active union. and we were always saying that the protocol was unlawful. well, of course he was able to say it's not unlawful because it's been breached because there's been what he called implied, repealed in the house of commons, when the withdrawal act. this is the 18 o one act of union between island and the rest of the yes. and that particular act that, that, that section is about internal trade and the necessity of all of that happening. but i think the most serious thing, and it's not just for northern ireland,

but i would have thought people scotland would be very interested that you know, if the active union can be sort of repealed almost with no one knowing. and he looked back through hand sought, i think there was only one question from m. peggy leaf a bite the active union and she was laughed up. don't be silly. and now we will have to end up in the supreme court because that's ultimately constitutional issues will be decided that we won't defeat the protocol only by a legal would be nice if we could win that. but we need people to protest and we need particularly a conservative an unionist party to realize that they have gone very badly off track on this. and i think if i'm being fair to the prime minister, i always like to be fair to the prime minister. i generally don't think that they realize, you know, highly detailed difficulties at the post always going to bring and also that the european union could be quite so nasty putting it simply as nothing in the

bottles. johnson argument that's not much that has the best of both worlds. victim said openly through the single market and also can fade with the you can, once these transitional issues are ironed out, that must be a privilege position economically for a while. it doesn't really work like that because you see most of the trade from northern ireland is going to great britain and great britain. most of the great britain is coming to northern ireland not actually going on into that are probably about it. but also there's nothing to stop those traders at the moment trading that people have been saying, oh look, that particular company is not buying things from the republic, yvonne and well, they always had that opportunity to do that. you know what, what it means to me generally for the whole of the united kingdom is that we as our, our, our, our sites a little bit higher than just dealing with the european union. i'm just wanting to see if you will, holy m. p for county anthem, instead of kate,

wholly as well as m p for vote. so would you be so tutoring round the city saying come to county anthem and you'll be able to trade in a single market and the rest of the world and the u. k. will not be what you are doing if i pay for not well, no, because most of them are not doing that because they know that that that's not really the answer. no, if i, if i was the m p for, for country i'm from now, i would be telling my party, whichever party i was going to be stopping implementing the protocol. i mean, it's ludicrous that we're opposing it in northern ireland, but we're implementing it by having people searching or ease and stopping. or, you know, the idea is that you cannot bring something in from your own country and whether you believe it a united ireland or not. and you don't like northern ireland. the reality is we're part of the united kingdom. but you know, you, if people want that changed and that has to be a proper mechanism to do that through the vote in the agreement. and that's not happening on the day to day difficult. you know,

now we've got the europe in union changing its attitude to feeding animals to other animals and northern ireland because it stayed within the euros are going to have to comply with the shop. so we then have the situation of people in england saying we want to buy anything more from northern and if they're, if they're feeding their animals in their hands and in the, in a different way. and every day something new comes up, which is why, you know, i think david frost is quite right when he says it, it is just the sustainable it can't go on. apart from the societal difficulties that are there, it really is something that is going to have to and one way or the other. it shouldn't lot frost of thought that what he was negotiating the protocol, well i understand it was really micro goes is actually much more involved in the detail of northern ireland. and i think from my meetings and contact with lord for i. i generally think he, he gets it, you know, on the other of course,

important issue is the fact that the, the genuine need the belfast good friday agreement has been breached as well. because the east west, it was a very delicate balance between north syphon east west north side is being carrying on wonderfully an east west has been disrupted. so you can understand why pro union people in or not and feel very angry, very let dine very abandoned by their own government. and you know, that's not good for the union. people who want the union broken up. perhaps even scottish nationalists probably are quite happy with some of the things that are happening, but it's not good for the union. and i think the conservatives, many of them not realizing that one last question. i mean, recently you were quoted as saying he thought that the irish, the public might come out of the european union, but that's not going to happen this, but i'm more interested in what do you think the future of the terms of the political balance and non island is going to be with us looking for your position

was convinced you in the us, but, but some sensitive in the sample of norm, irish politics. where do you think the, the balance of non island is going to is going to move? yeah, we're just on the very quickly on the irish thing. i mean, 15 years ago people said the united kingdom could never leave your opinion. so we'll see about that in 15 years time. thought. well, i think, i think the important thing is that yes, political parties in northern ireland are not particularly liked at the moment. and they're all of, all of the parties are having major problems, even even sion fee and bought ultimately when it comes to the union. you know, an awful lot of people who don't vote the fee or don't even vote unionist who when it came to an actual vote about staying in the union. staying in the united kingdom or giving up your british citizenship and becoming part of the united would not vote for the silent vote for the union with the silent vote for breakfast. since

i've been back in northern, i'm not i, i realize just how little the average member of for example, the d p gets involved in the i did 38 people voted for their leader. i think that tells you something. so i think the parties in northern ireland do have to look at how do they, how they're working, by the way, thank you so much for joining us again. malik simon show, coming up after the break, alex continues to be of the feature of northern ireland, with mac fealty of the political blog. so i grew to, will see that the driven by adrenal shaped by those with me in

me think we dare to ask in the british and american governments have often been accused of destroying lives in their own interest. while you see in this, these techniques is the state devising message to end to essentially destroy the personality of an individual lifetime. means this is how one doctors, theories were allegedly used in psychological warfare against the prisoners deemed a danger to the state. that was the foundation for the method of psychological interrogation, psychological torture, disseminated within the us intelligence community, and worldwide among allies for the next 30 years. to have the victim say they still live with the consequences today.

well, come back. alex is examining the feature of northern ireland over the last 20 years . a political blog sluggard too, has emerged as a dominant place for discourse in northern ireland. allen speaks to its finder and editor in chief nic fealty. feel say no, my own does just mock 100 years of existence. is it going to see another 100 buffet? my well do you? i mean, when the partition was 1st brought in many people, particularly nationals who lived near the border, looked at the border post. so they were going out in wages as jim black, the british government, like perhaps the incipient irish government, the partition was going to be a very temporary thing, but actually, it lasted another 50 years before northern are included in 1969. and then the

other, 50 years, most of which has been characterized by move towards are away from violence and towards power sharing. so it may not be yours, but another 100 years. i think it's some of that or a difference to the one that we see today. but what is the crisis of media and some people know said symptom very little idea. and i'm in the democratic union list some 20 years ago under paisley took over from the official unionist. they were seemed to be hard. the line was working class, but they came to publishing agreement. we shouldn't fame but of the democratic union as a fracturing spectacularly so over the last few weeks, what is this crisis and non i this unionism. okay, well let me, let me try to explain it, but by used to demographics, if you like, because the terms unionism, nationalism don't really mean an awful lot of people by side north not include people in the republic as well. no, not in politics is a bit of a closed book,

except for those funds. spent large chunks of our lives trying to understand that and trying to explain what gum a graphically, if you like, unionism historically, especially if you go back to 1922. when the partition of the island began. raney's unionism is a marking protest for non catholic if you like. and so what happened really, since and when north setup was deliberately with a strong, stable protestant majority. but his time is going on 1st and those 1st 50 years until the troubles began. it was a firm majority and then over the last 50 years we've seen client decline decline. and with the certainty that holding the majority meant that north and i was saying perpetuity within the united kingdom to greater and greater insecurity, but also lesser and last are numbers shared between these 2 big union as parties

and in the law, i'd say 5 to 10 years we've seen other parties breaking through the middle as more and more catholics and protestants have the claims that the crime described themselves as either one of those 2 religious blocks. and so i think what you're saying here is an instability because the raising per unionism coming together in the 1st place is only have upheld by not a minority of people in northern ireland. therefore, but if you cannot have to call us plays a protestant state for the protestant people because no less protestants and catholics on issue of census, we suspect them. how can i am hardly unionist future of how is it possible to have a union as future if the basis of unionism is no more? okay, so let's, let's re define where we're, where we, with,

we've got to graphically because although it's true to say there is no longer pros majority, there is also not a catholic majority insights in crime, despite the fact that conflicts at school age and nor of maryland have a substantial majority over those and state schools, the proportion of catholics, the population only went on one percent and 2011. my suspicion is that the fastest growing block is those in the middle who, who will not skirt themselves as catholic or protestant. if you like, these are people who at the bottom box are making post constitutionalist choices about who they vote for. i suspect when this years census results are reported. the religious affiliation will find the lock is something like 20 percent of the whole population,

which means they're neither nationalist nor unionist and not makes the fate of northern ireland more than my traffic because it will be a by personal choice not by personal, tribal identity. i'm more potentially more unstable, but it also means that union nationals will have to work for those in the middle. say a play on both your houses. so let's talk about that. 20 percent and the middle people have no strong religious affiliation, and not by bragging either. a nationalist or a union? this was going to appeal to them. the most is going to be backs up breton, the venturing force balcony of bought us at the helm. or is it going to be the irish public safely ensconced in the european union? what is the future most attractive to you reckon to that 20 percent? i know it's hard to tell in the long term, but just breaks it is going to have to we need to sort things around,

protocol the protocol as you know, as a scott grants, northern are certain privileges and rights that are not granted to the rest. the united kingdom. so for instance, firms that are setup in belfast can export into the rest the united kingdom, but can also have unfettered access into the rest the, the european union. so already potentially, as long as most people don't lose their weights on this, nor the sitting with a huge strategic advantage just by being northern ireland and not pre it's, i mean, what's strange about this is the union. us are the ones who kicked up most about the very thing that might in the long term and sure that the union with the rest, the united kingdom and jurors because it gives northern i was a strategic above that it wouldn't have if it's simply unified with the rest of the rest of the country, not august 20 percent,

my my sha position minutes only. and i can't point to clear yet missed most of them would have voted against praxis. they're not particularly nationalist or not british nationals or even irish national senate. what they're looking for are politicians for them on bread and butter issues and political parties in north america, but seem to be prospering, or at least responders about challenge baths or naomi long alliance parties. and they've been around since 900 and the moderate nationalist as the o p party. over the last 2 to 3 years been putting together what looks like a left of center social democrat read distribution appeal. i think it's only with those material appeals to those people in the middle for a better future that you're in any way have any chance of actually capturing the future either for the continuance of the union with britain or some radical rail

line with the rest of the aisles that make filthy, that's a pretty dramatic forecast. i mean, what you're saying is after a generation we have non ice politics move to the extremes, who came to the combination of each other as at one stage and fame on the other side of the democratic union. this is simply pointing to anita after the power of the middle, the middle ground. this is going to prosper, is that when you say the regional, i think the middle is going to come, may well come through. is there a certain point or constituencies conjoin so that you've got i feel like kind of political molecules swapping and moving around between those 2 part is that they simply comp between the b u b and, and pam. i'm not trying to predict the future here. how like, so i'm not trying to back out of what i've just said. i just think the potential for the middle grinds retake, things lies in the fact that about 20 and possibly if you look at some of the

survey data, 30 percent of the northern population have had enough of a constitutional question that never delivers on the grounds. so most people would argue that one of the things has happened. this was the departure from the scene of the 2 recent jibes of knowledge politics or rather in paisley, in the one honda, martin mcguinness, on the other 2 people with the stature to basically gooden the respect of parties and to layman puddle shilling. that has been the reason for the difficulties. you seem to be arguing with something much more fundamental going on the, the ground shifting from under the feet of the newly dose of shouldn't fain. and the d u. p regardless of the stature in the last bill. actually if you look at the performance supposed to be inch and then we see is, is dropped slightly higher, i think for the b u. p than she battle to some extent. that's partly because the

piece, the back and once they analyze should be taken off of the paper. that's a tail. but in and for in which champagne i've been working the pick up. we're still p for years and managed to do it. and 2017 by law start see 517000 votes to the lp in belfast, which for years was difficult for the us. the lp to hold on to claire, hama, came through with a massive majority because she started taking votes from even working class protestant areas, because they're fed up with this shaun, shaun fight, fight every day, and storm on the balls and bring anything forward. so, you know, i think there is definitely momentum there. you see it in the census figures. you see in this pulling away from an argument over the constitution that never seems to have any eagerness, except there's always a promise of

a border polls i'm saying. but nobody ever puts any meat on those particular bones . so violent a field team or sluggard will kill without be a safe space for the for i see of pipes of, you know, nice politics for, for some time to come. well, i hope so, you know, novice, you've got many, a young chart. but you know, i think it's good see a space for people to share ideas that you know and perspectives, but otherwise wouldn't get shared books. you know, we'll see what adding market notes mcfield if i get so much for joining me once again. malik simon, show pleasure. alex, northern island may be 100 years old, but the state of the province is very far from stable. after the good friday agreement with peace increasingly embedded, it was hoped that both communities would settle for

a joint stake and the future. the opinion had to affectively eliminated. border politics in the island of island, while all party for the guaranteed stake involved government breaks. it destabilized everything, the set a border port violence on land has been placed by seizing union as discontent. the protocol agreed between westminster and europe over the heads of storm it as ever. in fact, just are constance. politicians who suggest accommodation must reality. i sweat the sight by those who prefer a hard line approach. thus, the democratic unionist party, the dominant park of northern island for the last 2 decades, has gone to 3 leaders in 3 weeks quickly. it also doesn't help the unionist insecurities to have the knowledge that this your census is likely to record the 1st protestant minority and the history of the province. some white kid toys believe that the political possession will be dissolved by ireland leaving the

european union. others believe that i should have his course scenario than it has been since partition other head like mac fealty. see the emergence of a new center book, concentrating on the delivery of social and economic advances can elected tired of constitutional politics. whatever the destination of change the process of getting there is unlikely to be a comfortable one. and next maddox, myself and all that issue is good bye, stacy. and we hope to see you all again next week. ah, me . oh,

the news today industry pieces spend millions of euros in avi today. regulations business is all about making money. it's about big corporation, international markets. import export. do you imagine the number of the diseases are in every family today due to new viruses or new microbes? it's not true, so it is due to environment last us here, not going to say either the momentum. i simply that's part of my study. yes, thank you. let me come in today. don't allow us to discuss the food industry is successful for create more jobs. it will create more value added, it will create more. so i don't see why we shouldn't also fight for the interest of

the industry that we have regulation. we want regulation as the industry. and if we don't behave specialty, that's fine. ah ah, headline stories. this is our a part of his refusing to reveal to our jury at the locations of radio active waste . 6 decades after colonial france conducted its nuclear tests. they're also ad, orchestrated by foreign mercenaries. atl describe the assassination of its president for suspects. something killed in a shootout with security forces and 2 others the 4 years after a devastating fire that left dozens did lives ruined down the apartment block in central london totally got into the search.