ah, well come to the alec salmon should we examine the political feature of northern ireland this year, nor the knowledge was due to mark 100 years of existence. however, despite the best efforts of the british government and various unionists committed a combination of colbert spectacular divisions within the dominant union as part of the d u p. and the reality, the past, the current to to me and uncomfortable with its very existence, celebrations, have been rather muted. instead, the problem told its collective breath as a marching season starts. this year, however, the partisans will not be marching to proclaim their traditional allegiance to credit and country. but on the opposition to the northern ireland protocol, which had affectively placed an administrative boarder in the either c. today i'll speak to barnett toys for many years, a living labor politician. but at heart, i know stood unionist,

one of the pray movers of the recent quote case against the political and then to northern islands, top online commentator mic fealty to assess whether the sanction or province has a feature for the 1st year to move messages in response i show last week preaching dr to me can of the international vaccine simple way to get back to job it's appointment as a new health accuracy. bornea alba says he's more interested in finding contracts for his contacts to worry about his health portfolio. crystal kinda says, i says no long term diesel, it's impossible to clean the actions have been successful. i need to king says, i've had both my vaccination, i'm perfectly fine. and finally i dobson says, i find both pfizer vaccinations in january and in march to to work no issues, no hassles, no side effects. all good. now can we spent 30 years as a prominent labor m p for vote fall in london. however, on her elevation to the house of lords in 2020,

she turns her political routes. i'm buying a suite of low ho and rough and in the county of alex introduced her. i assigned the house of lords k toy, 50 years, i labor m. p for a vauxhall, half and all an island loss because you grew up in the and the problem. so that's your, your home or your home grown? yes, i was born and bred there and i went school and i went to college, qualified to be teacher, then decided that i wanted to go to the capital city of my country, which was london came along, who took an economics degree don't know very much, but i don't like to have them basically stayed in london more than ever since, but i was back and forward quite a lot. so it's always been important to me when i 1st came over with an m p being from northern on. and it was actually pretty difficult because you were

sort of treated when you were from a sort of union as background as some kind of, almost pariah within the labor party. and you know, years as a labor m. p of in a huge number of issues. you are known for being outspoken on but how much was the situation on island, the feature of your politics. so it was that and the back button because you're the m p for voc so well, obviously it couldn't have been a big priority because you were so involved with your own constituency, a very, very poor constituency with huge problems and enormous amounts of care for looking back on it, but there were always issues that, you know, i felt very strongly about. and one of the issues actually was an internal matter because the neighbor party never allowed people until very recently to even join the labor party in northern ireland. and yet when i was growing up, there wasn't northern ireland labor party that had labor and some very, very well known and good labor people. labor then would not allow. it ended

when the trouble began, basically because it became very sectarian, you know, you're either one side or the other. whereas the neighbor was trying to bring people together. and then the neighbor party kay would not allow people to join. eventually that was only ended because a very dedicated g m. b worker took threatened to take the party to court. they had to allow people to join, but they still don't allow anyone to put up candidates. so you join the labor party in northern ireland, but you can't actually vote for labor. and occasionally you get people standing as sort of labor brackets, pretend candidates, but it's not the same. and i think that's been a real democratic deficit. you know, i think labor had organized property there from the beginning. the conservatives take it, sometimes they're quite active. sometimes they're not. but if it been to mainstream parties really concerned, i think it could have made a difference to the idea that there's not real politics in northern ireland and

probably that part of the reason i left that recent time. so you've been very associated as a prominent labor brakes appear to fight the most prominent labor brakes. if you have some sensors. what are you thinking in terms of the overall argument or was the implications for non island of a part of your consideration when you are advocating withdrawal from the european union? no, because you see i see northern i was very much part of the united kingdom and it was a decision to leave as a u. k. and i, i, i never really understood what i do understand why the border between northern probably got and it's been, become such an issue, but there was no need for it to become such an issue. and i think if you look back, you will remember that when we 1st voted to leave for a very short period of time, the irish government were involved in discussions with the u. k. at civil service level, about technical arrangements. what could happen then? teach up for rod came in and he stopped all of that because i think by that time,

you know, i think the european union had actually realized that northern on with a very useful little bit of the united kingdom, that they could drip drip away at the british government annoy annoyed them indeed punish them and it was used as a kind of weapon. at the same time, the irish government saw as also wanting to be very much part of the use of sticking by the use. but also i think they saw it as a useful opportunity to, to get a united ireland in terms of economics to economic trade together 1st and then leading to united are and they hope they're bring us up to date as no bias. holy, a, back in northern ireland, you've been one of the leading progenitors of the legal case against the protocol. and although you were unsuccessful in the non scholarship, you felt you established quite an important principle. tell us whether the very

important principle was established and we lost in the 1st high court in, in northern ireland. but the judge did room that the protocol had breached article 6 of the active union. and we were always saying that the protocol was unlawful when, of course, he was able to say, it's not unlawful because it's been breached because there's been what he called implied, repealed in the house of commons when the withdrawal actually this is the $181.00 act of union between ireland and the rest of the yes and that particular act that, that, that section is about internal trade and then the necessity of all of that happening . but i think the most serious thing, and it's not just for know that on and but i would thought people, scotland would be very interested that you know, if the active union can be sort of repealed almost with no knowing. and he looked back through hand side. i think there was only one question from emma. peggy leaf, a bite the active union and she was locked up. don't be silly. and now we will have

to end up in the supreme court because that's ultimately constitutional issues will be decided that we won't defeat the protocol only by legal. steve would be nice if we could when not, but we need people to protest and we need particularly a conservative an unionist party to realize that they have gone very badly off track on this. and i think if i'm being fair to the prime minister, i always like to be fair to the prime minister. i generally don't think that they realize, you know, highly detailed difficulties that the protocol was going to bring. and also that the european union could be quite so nasty, putting it simply as nothing in the bottles. johnson argument, not much that has the best of both worlds and trade openly through the single market. and also can fade with the you can once these transitional issues on the

island, that must be a privilege position economically for a while. it doesn't really work like that because you see most of the trade from northern ireland is going to great britain and great britain. most of the great britain is coming to northern ireland not actually going on into that are probably the bottom. but also there's nothing to stop those traders at the moment trading. people have been saying, oh look, that particular company is not buying things from the republic, yvonne and well, they always had the opportunity to do that. you know what, what it means to me generally for the whole of the united kingdom is that we, we as our, our, our sites a little bit higher than just dealing with the european union. i'm just wanting to see if you are, can holy m. p for county and from instead of k holy as was m p for vote. so would you be so tutoring around the city saying come to county anthem and you'll be able to trade the single market and the rest of the world under the u. k. will not be what you are doing if i pay for not well, no,

because most of them are not doing that because they know that that's, that's not really the answer. no, if i, if i was the m p for, for country i'm from now, i would be telling my party, whichever party i was in to be stopping implementing the protocol. i mean, it's ludicrous that we're opposing it in northern, but we're implementing it by having people searching or even stopping. or if you know, the idea is that you cannot bring something in from your own country and whether you believe it a united ireland or not. and you don't like northern ireland, the reality is where part of the united kingdom. but if people want that change, then i have to be a proper mechanism to do that through the vote in the agreement. and that's not happening. i'm the day to day difficult. now we've got the europe in union changing it attitude to feeding animals to other animals and northern ireland because it stayed within the euros are going to have to comply with the shop. so we then have

the situation of people in england saying we want to buy anything more from northern and if they're, if they're feeding their animals in their hands and in the, in a different way. and every day something new comes up, which is why, you know, i think david frost is quite right when he says that it is just on the sustainable it can't go on. apart from the societal difficulties that are there. it really is something that is going to have to and one way or the other. it shouldn't lead frost of thought. so that when he was negotiating the protocol, well i understand it was really myco goes, is actually much more involved in the detail of northern ireland. and i think from my meetings and contacts with lord from i, i generally think he he gets it, you know, on the other of course important issue is the fact that the, the genuine a, the belfast good friday agreement has been breached as well. because the east west, it was a very delicate balance between north side and east. west north side is being carrying

on wonderfully an east west has been disrupted so you can understand why pro union people in or not and feel very angry, very let dine very abandoned by their own government. and you know, that's not good for the union. people who want the union broken up, perhaps even scottish nationalists probably are quite happy with some of the things that are happening. but it's not good for the union. and i think the conservatives, many of them not realizing that one last question, i mean, recently you were quoted as saying he thought that the irish public might come out of the european union. but that's not going to happen. but i'm more interested in what do you think the future of terms of the political balance and non island is going to be with us looking for your position was convinced you in the us, but some sense in the sample of nor mileage policies. where, where do you think the balance of non island is going to is going to move? well, we're just on the very quickly on the irish thing in 15 years ago, people said the united kingdom could never leave your union. so we'll see about

that in 15 years time. but what i think, i think the important thing is that yes, political parties in northern them are not particularly light at the moment. and they're, all of, all of the parties are having major problems even even shouldn't say and, but ultimately when it comes to the union, you know, an awful lot of people who don't vote the pay or don't even vote unionist who, when it came to an actual vote about staying in the union saying in the united kingdom or giving up your british citizenship and becoming part of united would not vote for the silent vote for the union. but like the silent vote for breakfast, since i've been back in northern. now i realize just how little the average member of, for example, the d p gets involved in the i did 30 people voted for their leader. i think that tells you something. so i think the parties in northern ireland do have to look at

how they, how they're working, but actually thank you so much for joining us again. malik salmon show coming up after the break, alex continues as a view of the feature of northern ireland, with mac fealty of the political blog sluggard. you will see then the the planet 2nd trip it there. we found 25 years ago, took only 4 days to go around the stars, which means the planet is very close. so that was really the big surprise. and we have learned since then. all in system is maybe one among many. that's not the archetype that's not the standard way to our planet animal shots, because everybody was expecting the planet to look all the same. oh,

the people with diabetes. so number raises, whether it's not adequately managed or that they have some immune problem. then their risk of infections and something like the coven 19 pandemic, was very bad news. the people diabetes. and we consider it as one of the very high risk situations in terms of people being in the welcome back. alex is examining the feature of northern ireland over the last 20 years. a political blog sluggard too, has emerged as a dominant place for discourse and northern ireland. alex speaks to its finder and editor in chief nick fealty. my feel say not my own, does just mark 100 years of existence. is it going to see another 100 bucks to my?

well, do, i mean when partition was 1st brought in many people, particularly nationals who lived near the border, looked at the border post. and so they were going out in would assume like the british government, like perhaps the incipient irish government. but partition was going to be a very temporary thing. but actually it lasted another 50 years before northern are included in 1969. and then the other, 50 years, most of which has been characterized by and move towards are away from violence and towards power sharing. so it may not have years but another 100 years. i think it's some of that or a difference to the one that we see today. but what is this crisis a union? some people say, since the very little idea and i've been the democratic union list some 20 years ago under the in paisley took over from the official unionist. they seem to be hard

. the line was working class, but they came to publishing agreement was shouldn't fame. but the democratic union as a fracturing spectacularly so over the last few weeks. what is this crisis and non either unionism? okay, well, let me, let me try to explain it by used to demographics. if you like, because the terms unionism, nationalism don't really mean an awful lot of people by side north not, not include people in the republic as well, nor not in politics is a bit of a closed book, except for those funds. spent large chunks of our lives trying to understand that and trying to explain what gum graphically, if you like, unionism historically, especially if you go back to 1922 when the partition of the island began. raney's unionism is a marking protest for long catholic if you like. and so what happened really, since and when north setup was deliberately with

a strong payable protestant majority, but as time is going on, 1st the news 1st 50 years until the troubles began. it was a foreign majority and then over the last 50 years we've seen kline decline decline . and with the certainty that holding the majority meant north not actually within the united kingdom to greater and greater insecurity. but also last are and last are numbers share between these 2 big union as parties. and in the law, i say 5 to 10 years, we've seen other parties breaking through the middle as more and more catholics and protestants. how the claims of the crime described themselves as either one of those 2 religious blocks. and so i think what you're saying here is an instability because the raising per unionism coming together in the 1st place is only have

upheld by not a minority of people in northern ireland. therefore, but if you cannot have to fight us, plays a protestant state for protestant people because no less protestants and catholics on this year census, we suspect them. how can i am, how the union is future? how is it possible to have a union as future if the basis of unionism is no more? ok, so let's, let's re define where we're, where we, when we got to graphically because although it's true to say there is no longer probably the majority, there is also not a catholic majority insight in crime. despite the fact that catholics at school age and or of maryland have a substantial majority over those instead schools, the proportion of catholics in the population, only when i one percent,

and 2011. my suspicion is that the fastest growing block is those in the middle who, who will not skirt themselves with catholic or protest. and if you like, these are people who at the bottom box are making post constitutionalist choices about who they both for. i suspect when this years census results are reported. the religious affiliation will find the walk is something like 20 percent of the whole population, which means they're neither nationalist nor unionist and not makes the fate of northern ireland. more of them, a traffic because it will be a by personal choice, not by personal, tribal identity. i'm more potentially more unstable, but it also means that union nationals will have to work for those in the middle say a play on both your houses. so let's talk about that 20 percent and the middle people have no strong religious affiliation,

and not by bragging either the nationalist or union this what's going to appeal to them the most is going to be breaks up, but venturing for, for the balcony of bought us at the helm, or is it going to be the irish public safely ensconced in the european union? what is the future most attractive to you reckon to that 20 percent? i know it's hard to tell in the long term, but just breaks it is going to have to we need to sort things around, protocol the protocol as you know, as a scott grants, northern are certain privileges and rights that are not granted to the rest. the united kingdom. so for instance, firms that are setup in belfast can export into the rest the united kingdom, but can also have unfettered access into the rest the, the, your opinions. so already potentially, as long as most people don't lose their weights on this nor model the sitting with

a huge strategic advantage just by being northern ireland. and not prius. i mean, what's strange about this is the union. us are the ones who kicked up most of the very thing that might in the long term ensure that the union but the rest, the united kingdom and jurors because it gives northern. i was a strategic above that you wouldn't have if it's simply unified with the rest of the rest of the country night august 20 percent. my my supposition minutes, tony and i can't point to cleared yet missed. most of them would have voted against praxis. they're not particularly nationalist or not british national stories and irish national senate, what they're looking for are politicians who for them on bread and butter issues and the political parties in north america, but seem to be prospering or at least responders. my challenge baths are naomi long

alliance parties and they've been around since 900 and the moderate nationalist as the o p party. over the last 2 to 3 years been putting together what looks like a left of center social democrat read distribution appeal. i think it's only with those material appeals to those people in the middle for a better future that you're on in any way. have any chance of actually capturing the future either for the continuance of the union with britain or some radical re align with the rest of the aisles that make filthy that's a pretty dramatic forecast. i mean, what you're saying is after a generation we have non ice politics move to the extremes, who came to the commendation with each other as and one side shouldn't fame on the other side, the democratic union us, you're simply pointing to anita after the power of the middle, the middle ground, this is going to prosper, is that when you say, the reason i think the middle is going to come, may well come through. is that

a certain point, barrack constituencies conjoin so that you've got, i feel like kind of political molecules. swapping and moving around between those 2 part is that they simply comp between the b u b and pan. i'm not trying to predict the future here hikes and i'm not trying to back out of what i've just said. i just think the potential for the middle grind to retake things lies in the fact that that 20 and possibly if you look at some of the survey data, 30 percent of the north population have had enough of a constitutional question that never delivers on the grind so most people would argue that one of the things that happened this was the departure from the scene of the 2 recent gibe, so not as politics or rather in paisley, in the one honda martin. again, a saw on the other 2 people with the stature to basically good enough,

the respect of parties and to layman panel shilling. that has been the reason for the difficulties. you seem to be arguing with something much more fundamental going on the, the ground shifting from under the feet of the newly dose of shouldn't fain, and the d u. p regardless of the stature in the last will actually if you look at the performance supposed to be inch and then we see is, is dropped slightly higher, i think for the v p than she panel the some extent. but partly because b s b l piece the back and once they analyze shouldn't be taken off of the paper. that's a tail. but in and for in which champagne have been working the pick up, we are still p for years and managed to do it. and 2017 by law, stop 517000 votes to the lp in so fast, which for years was difficult for the us. the lp to hold on to claire, hama came through with

a massive majority because she started taking votes from even working class protestant areas, because they're fed up with this shaun, shaun fight a fight every day and storm on with balls and bring anything forward. so, you know, i think there is definitely momentum there. you see it in the census figures. you see in this pulling away from an argument over the constitution that never seems to have any eagerness, except there's always a promise of a border polls i'm saying, but nobody ever puts any meat on those particular bones. so violent, i feel theme or sluggard will kill without be a safe space for me. but i feel pipes of, you know, nice politics for, for some time to come. well, i hope so. you know, novice, you've got many, a young chart. but you know, i think i see a space for people to share ideas that you know and perspectives,

but otherwise i wouldn't get shared books. you know, we'll see by adding market note mcfield if i get so much was joining that once again. mailing silence show pleasure. alex, northern ireland may be 100 years old, but the state of the province is very far from stable. after the good friday agreement with peace increasingly embedded, it was hoped that both communities would settle for a joint stake and the future. the european union had to affectively eliminated border politics in the island of island. while all parties said he got into stick involved government breaks, it destabilized everything, the fact a border port violence on land has been placed by seizing union as discontent. the protocol agreed between westminster and europe over the heads of storm it as ever. in fact, the circumstance, politicians who suggest accommodation modality,

i sweat the site by those who prefer a hard line approach. thus, the democratic unionist party, the dominant part of northern island for the last 2 decades, has gone to 3 leaders in 3 weeks quickly. it also doesn't help the unionist insecurities to have the knowledge that this year census is likely to record the 1st protestant minority and the history of the province. some like a toy believe that the political possession will be dissolved by ireland leaving the european union. others believe that i should choose course scenario than it has been since partition other hit like mcfield, p. c. the emergence of a new center blog concentrating on the delivery of social and economic advances can elected tired of constitutional politics. whatever the destination of change the process of getting there is unlikely to be a comfortable one. and next maddox, myself and all that issue is good bye,

stacy. and we hope to see you all again next week. ah, me the last me and appears to be near washington's 20 year effort to nation bill and f denison was always going to end this way a complete and total failure. it is doubtful. the corrupt government in kabul will last long after the american withdrawal of dennis and remains broken and the american people poor and no one is held to account

the ah, us president joe biden admit that is stronger than it's been in 20 years and put into that doesn't mean i've got to on willful to the medicine that he claims america's mission in the country has been accomplished. and it's time to get out. paris is refusing to reveals wells area that occasions of radioactive waste some 6 decades on from colonial, from conducting new taxes in the country. news. i was talking colson claims as a wide on his communications analysts, private journalists, alleging that it's all because he tried to secure an interview with the russian president. ah.