and a 2019 noble price loretta and professor disease hello astronomer and the 2019 noble prize. lori and physics. great to have you with us today. you're welcome. thank you. all right, so you said he accept planets and that's what bought you the noble horizon because x a planet known to these day is 9000 times further away from earth than neptune. how do you search for something that is just so far away? well, it's difficult to find a planet because it's very close to a very bright object that is the star. so we have to do tricks. we're using what we call indirect effect, off the planet, on the star saw bell 2 main effects that you can use. the 1st one is when the

planet is orbiting the star. the star is moving a little bit. it's tiny motion. but if you are very sensitive machine to measure this motions, if you use, for example, the change of the speed of the style, you can detect the planet that way. the other way is if you got lucky and the planet is just crossing the line of sight between you and the stall, it makes for a brief moment. a slight shadow because transit and we see a slight decrease of the light of the star. and we use that to get the size of the planet. essentially, all the planet have been found. have been detected babies to technique so far. uh huh. what we hear a lot during the last decade that our galaxy might be teeming with trillions of earth like planets yet finding them looks like searching for a needle in a haystack. as they're like insanely far away. and they didn't. they don't

produce light lake stars. so what makes your fellow scientists so sure, there must indeed be so many of them out there. how do you know? oh, that's pretty sure when you, when you detect this, this 2 specific signal, there is no way to do that. but having a planet, so we absolutely sure they are planet all beating the stalls. but what is interesting about your questions is some time ago we found that all the planet would look like our own system, where the small planet next to it. no man like the earth and then the giant annette far away. actually we have realized that is a bit more complicated than that. we have a lot, a lot of fun. it which all orbiting stars way more closer, closer than the beat of mercury. and i was a big shock when we found the 1st one. that was a planet like all on jupiter,

to really a be glad full of gas. jupiter is very far away. it takes more than 10 years for jupiter to be the stun. while the planets i contributor we found 25 years ago, took only 4 days to go around the stars, which means the planet is very close. so that was really a big surprise. and we have learned since then, that our own system is, may be one amongst many. that's not the archetype that's not the standard way to our planet animal. the shock, because everybody was expecting the planet to look all the same. so we have your right, a lot of stars, but we also have a lot of very different kinds of planets. you know, there are thousands of ac supplies out there and to find truly habitable one scientists look if they have an atmosphere. liquid water in the rocky and i

understand the 1st 2, but can i explain why upon it needs to be rocky to be seen as potentially habitable? it's not like the variety of landscape that makes life possible. that's yeah, that's correct. i think you perfectly true. i think we, we don't know exactly what we need when you're talking about life, when you talk about life. habitability is a very specific definition switch. something comes from the fact that when you have a rocky planet, in define the possibility for that rocky planet to have liquid water. that's the only thing that describe the ability. but you could imagine planet thought different of this one that could still be he nabbit. so that's completely different stories. the habitability sometimes to be confusing because he come just by the definitions of the kid. walter. now if you look into solar system, our own system,

of course we have mosse. we have venues. we have the earth, actually, st. planets, all, all within the bits ability. well, it's not the case because mars has lost most of its atmosphere, venus as a very c, i see genetic atmosphere. so it's where be want to beach ability, but technically speaking they could be habitable though we also have some satellite of child time that, that have crossed of ice and we know that under it they're all liquid water. so we, we don't really know whether there are some change that live has started there. and that's the beauty of the problem. so i think you're right by saying that brocky planet and how did the ability are not absolute prerequisite simple for us, whole numbers, when you think about the rocky planet and they all, plenty of lucky planet. we can just ask yourself whether they all atmosphere on

this planet and we can try to understand what ease lease atmosphere made. and that's the kind of program that we would be doing in the next 20 years to find life on some actual planet. not in theory, but in practice we have to send a robot there, at least to collect soil samples, etc. which doesn't seem to happen anytime soon. well, the search for a habitable earth like planet remain solely on paper until the technologies in place. or are there ways to find out sooner? yes. so, what is going to happen is they all tree ways to look for life and each is telling you something about life. the 1st way is to just look at life as we know it . the only life we know is a life. we have a nurse, is only one single life on earth. so people can study the chemistry of life on earth. i can look to understand the origin of fly,

we have not really understood that yet. and you can look for that on other planets . i'll just select system. so that's 1st way to do that. you have a real chemistry real object. you can think about bringing rocks from moss. we can think about bringing rocks from venice. it's possible and to study whether you find some engine sign or fly there, all actual find the flies on the system. so that is something you can do as well. the problem there is you may find the same kind of fly we haven't us know when you talking about planet on all the stars. that's true too. said that it's very unlikely we'll go there very soon because it's tremendously difficult and we may even never be able to leave that place. but we can remotely study the atmosphere of this planet. and we may find something strange. well, of course, i mean having one planet with a strange atmosphere will not tell you that story. so i used to describe this as

like doing a paintings. you do a big paintings, but you, when you do a little bit of detail of one painting, you don't understand the global shape of the painting. so one planet will tell you one part of the story. but the big difference with studying few planet in the solar system, we have potentially a lot of planets. we can study on the lot of climate are slightly different, a slightly different composition. so we will do a kind of global picture. each of them will not tell you really anything, but the hope is when we will have studies thousands of atmosphere stud, make a painting. and we will start seeing the big picture. and we will combine what we learn with a detail study on specific piece of rocks like you said, from material coming from other kind of own system. so even if someone finds a perfect ac supplies that it will,

silver is so far away from us that traveling to it will be impossible in any practical way traveling from it. almost not almost. i think it's just impossible. so why all this fuss? what is the use of finding him? okay, we'll find a planet, but we can go there and we can come from there. yeah. well, i think i would, i used to say there is 3 perform questions that everybody keeps asking. and the human con has tried to answer almost in the beginning. the 1st one is the all he gene and the nature of the matter around where are we, what are things around us? that's one be questions and i'm collect a lot of sciences. the 2nd one is the all gene and the nature of life. it remains a pretty profound mystery. matter at some point can become alive and that's quite amazing. so this is the 2nd question. the 3rd one is the consciousness. at some point, you build up a consciousness. well,

when you dealing with life under the planet, actually you addressing one and maybe 2 of these question together, you're trying to understand. and the only way to understand is to look and to study . so that's what we're doing. what we're going to find, i don't know, my understanding is life is some kind of chemistry that went a little bit on its own and to control of itself is able to produce by itself. the own chemistry needed for life is kind of in depth and then structure that is able to build its own. mattel, heal, old matter, making this system alive. and there stood up, up and elsewhere. know what we going to see. maybe we were going to find out that all this life when they become very clever, all civilized calling that light like that the cell destroy. and just tell you something that is a very practical outcome when you see or much weaponry time when nuclear weapons we

avener cycle and we have the power of gold. so destructions. maybe we're going to see planet, we have, which clear evidence that life been extinct. because we will see you remaining massive outcome off a big war that has completely destroy life on the spanish. so it's all about ourselves in a way, what are we talking about? it's all about the origin of life, the nature of life, and maybe it will tell us something about all capability of survival. and maybe we're going to learn something professor, we're going to take a short break right now when we're back, we'll continue talking to d. d, a colo astronomer, and the 2900 noble prize laura and physics talking about the role of excell planets, research and finding more about the origins of life on earth. they with

the oh i i join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politic sport business. i'm show business. i'll see you then me

ah, you don't to leave, you will move a toy, knew he will tell when she who gets home later to love me as she knew, she wouldn't be a little girl for the study. i took me to teach julia traditional but she's a sheet if you want to push it, you see the one you need from me was over. she said for meeting last week with the metro. okay. she yeah. she felt that i was in this deal and that is what i need from

the new new new which is about what if the new i see executable football was quite up when i got to pull it up on that got me ah ah. and we're back with professor d kilo, it's sean number 2900 noble prize. lauren and physics professor. you famously predicted that will fly and alien live within 30 years. when asked, what makes you so sure you said that since life is basic chemistry,

we just have to find the perfect coma of elements and conditions that are actually going to make life possible. so how do you know that a combination like that even exists somewhere? while chemistry is doing the same everywhere you can point to radio telescopes and you realize that they are plenty of money, coons days, plenty of water, all the, the chemistry element. you know, they are the same on mall. they are the same on the styles. they is exactly the same kind of functioning. so there is no, i mean, profound difference between any of these chemistry. what makes the difference is the fine tuning of this? no, i agree that may be defined tuning a nurse was very special that make us very special. they so many storms there is so many planet so i can believe that the fund junior has to be so precise that you have only one cases. i just can't believe that because life that seems to be that

special. it look special because we don't understand how to make it. but the day when we will have understood it. i think it will feel. yeah, i was just this as soon as we have this ingredient, as soon as we have this element together, it app. so it's just a matter of understanding what are we talking about? no, it looks magical because we don't understand speak like any physical phenomenon. you could have people trying to understand 1000 years ago that could have been magic because you don't understand why why bird is flying it's magic. well, we can compute that is very well known equations and we building plane. we building rockets. we're going to do moon sol, this is ok. may not be bad. we know to do that. so it's exactly the same. so 30 years is kind of a time scale, which is very long in science. it's impossible to predict. so it's usual time that everybody is using sale 30 years, everything is possible. so i think it was

a good number to to drop the price. yeah. i remember talking to the buyer cameras, looking into the origins of life on earth, and he says, we're likely to find bacteria on other planet. sure. but not complex life forms like us. what's your take on this? yeah, that's a very interesting opinion. i don't know, is there any, i mean, some damage, all the fact that prevent life to have old. i don't know. that's a good point. it's nobody knows this. well the, the most difficult bit is to stop life as soon as you started. i think it is difficult to stop it. the reason why is life is there we? well, no, i mean, we have to minus self. anything living here is alive. it's the same way. it's the same mechanism to the same machinery. there is no difference between the piece of grass and between us in time of functioning. no,

it seems that as soon as you find the trick to make it work, nothing can stop it. so the fact you are multi cell, you know, send it off. i think it's a detail to me, i just don't believe this is a fundamental limit here. so then any way more fundamental aspect is the concept of consciousness. i mean, do we always have as an end product of life some entity that he's nowhere aware or conscious and he's impacting anita environment like us. these i don't know, it may be you need a lot of luck to happen. you need something. you need to get rid of the diners off to have the mammy fair moving ahead and you need maybe some, some commit to commit to impact there. but there are a lot of stuff floating on us anyway, and there is a lot of deliveries. and so it's not that unlikely that similar sto, we could have happened on the planet as well. so i don't really know that, but i can't believe there is any looking mcneese. the most difficult part is to get

the beginning starting. as soon as you start, it seems to be a machine that nothing stopped and you have it. the only way to stop it is to have the system you still decide to put an end of it. that's it, otherwise i don't think you're going to stop it. well, make where the sun will decide at some point, but, you know, 4000000000 years we have seen some time. so how accurately can we now reconstruct the conditions on earth? billions of years ago when life face, you know, thought to have appeared. yeah, that is very difficult because earth is a, has the capability to itself all to says rebill itself. so the plate tectonics is essentially removing any traces of, of engine life. we do have this to mac alive. we know that this has happened. we know that they also mentioned rocks and we know that exactly the competition of the time. but when using daily beginning, this is why we very excited to go to the planet,

like malls or venice. boss is fascinating because mosse. we absolutely share that. had water a please for the 1st be on years. so. and then something stop the play, tony, stop and the planet became aware that never evolve any more tomorrow, if possibly a planet that had some kind of cool evolution, like the earth for the 1st be on you're going to off is may be aware to probe what was the earth in the 1st 1000000000 years, and the other way to do that would be to detect autoplanet on the stars and to look for other stars having a similar age that the early sun. and this is also something which is pretty cool enough for physics because we don't only have many options. we can also look at different ages. we can pick a star which is likely younger or older. and we can compare the timing of addition of a planet, which is which i think a very important us. they'd also need to be study. so we should be able to get some

hint of the pollution of a planet by looking at plenty of the planet or beating other styles later on. and to compare this planets with the one we have in the system. so finding out what exactly earth was like when last appeared will help us look for other planets like that. and perhaps we'll find life out there. but isn't that mean that even if we do, we'll still have to wait, like 3 billions of ears to, you know, for some kind of amino acid to all into thinking pieces. well, you know, this is the fascinating bits of the story on earth. is we, we have evidence that life was there after 1000000000 years, which if you forgot the 1st half of 1000000000 with the earth, was extremely hot and not really a pleasant environment. as soon as the government becomes nice in away in time of chemistry on going to chemistry, you have life. so it appears that is

a very fast process as soon as you have the right condition there. no, but he's also interesting is life has been slow at the beginning to build up a capability to grow and to be committed to sell it. but as soon as you find a tweak there, everything go very fast and the complexity of life as soon as you have it, it's just just they have millions of possibility that happen. so it's not, no clear bodies timescales. there is a positive lead to that life would start early on, but would become very difficult to find because it, it is a very slow evolutions but, but that's ok. i think we can steady plenty of planets, steady the atmosphere, and we may not have any evidence of live there, but we may find interesting atmosphere with a possibility of flavor lucian. so that's not a problem. finding the planet is, is really finding what to expect the planet and what exactly is the structure and the atmosphere based on it. and we may find out that the only interesting feature that we may suspect, be related to life, comes very late. and i will be

a strong incentive that the life becomes visible at a stage of the atmosphere of the planet that relate. i don't really know. what i do know is we will be able to do that because you not breaking any law of physics to do that. it just depends on the size of the telescopes under observing the right stars of the right moment. so we have a working theory about the origins of life, the primordial soup flora, main element somewhere in the higher thermal vents got last started, right? sounds like yourself. so say that we don't really know and we need to find out how life started. what is wrong with the current theory? well, there's nothing wrong. i think the theory doesn't exist. this the jury is not really build on the foundation of chemistry. the jury is, is build on reason. so there has been some idea that the bottom of the oceans, you have, this is this energy that comes on the, from the cross of the earth. and then you use the complexity of this event. it's

not actually the black smoke of the 3, the very cool event and much more nice thing away, duck cities, i'm not kind of places. and there is some similarity in the structure of the vent with some of the make use of life. the one that like the krebs cycle producing in the g for example. so it's by similarity and it comes essentially funded by the just the just point the possible urging there. now what has happened in the last couple of years? he's the bio camry stuff challenged distillery quite significantly by telling by the just that that's fine, but this is not the theory because there is no any backing in time of chemistry and people enough stop coming up with a new approach here trying to we could use those, you know, 5 in the lab, and what they found out is instead of being on the bottom of the oceans, you can have more massive life production a dis, just face of the content. essentially, you bring the ingredients, you have, which is the water s o 3, which from the volcanic activity, the a c n that comes from the delivery of the comment. walter,

very natal atmosphere when you get when you build the planet full of c o 2, and then a lot of creation. so you'd be addition from the start that bring the energy mechanic for the chemistry to happen. the realize this is a kind of recent series of paper about 5 to 6 years old. you produce exactly the 20 amino acid which is being build up for life. and then you produce also the ingredient kenia, and that is a foundation like design solutions that kind of for the, for the sales for the future. so the make any to reproduce the cutting and then also the, the make a nice which is building the stuff, i mean, the gears the, the whale, the protein, the element of the proteins there. so, so this is account if you approach it's not completely contradicting because in a way you, it life has to happen the kind of chemistry there. but it seems it's not at the bottom of the ocean, but the face of the earth, which intellifax is interesting because we will be able to measure something from the face. it's way more difficult to get from the bottom,

but from the still face of the planet. so he started to engage on that and to check this jury. one of the easy check is whether there is enough energy to make the reaction, the chemistry reaction up. and you confirmed that recently. and recently we confirming all the k, the key steps of the reaction making the pathway to the, to the light. so i think this is chance within a couple of years, some live in chemistry will make life into a lab life, as we know, it will be made from 0 level from scratch. and i would be the final demonstration that this is the original fly. well, i hope everything that you say comes true. thank you very much for this amazing insight. it's always really interesting to dream and wonder if one day we could be living on another planet. so i helpful, i hope that we get as much information as possible in the near future about all that because you know, i still want to be alive when something tangible happens in that area. anyway,

thank you a lot. good luck with all your future endeavors. i hope we meet sooner than 10 years to discuss. let's look at a little update on what's going on. ok with with great pleasure. thank you so much . thank you. bye. have a good day. bye. the me. the

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