me the news the who's i'm african returns we're going underground, turning up the volume of the stories obscured by mainstream media noise coming up on the show. as the withdrawal from afghanistan by the u. s. appears to see him. it's faith is the latest imperial nation to fail in the graveyard of empires. we ask our sons, former ambassador, china, if appealing to the attendant superpower,

the 21st century is on the horizon, and the head of what would it be in the 53rd birthday of one of the century, the greatest political thinkers, mark fisher, we speak to his friend and colleague, journalist, david stubbs, about the legacy of cabinets, realism, artists, resistance, and the class dimension of football. just hours ahead of 2 more years 2020 final, between england and all the small coming up in today's going underground. but 1st on wednesday is showing our interview with the case form of drugs our professor david not. he made an allegation that newspapers unfairly attacked his family after he was sacked by the british government, including the daily mail and mail on line the mail on line spokesman. has since responded with this statement, the article found the fact drug adviser david not pictured smoking cannabis on facebook was published on 14th november 29 on mail on line following a story that originally appeared in the sun. a complaint made to the p b. c. that professor, not some smoking roll up, not a joint in the picture, was resolved on the grounds of headline accuracy. and the article is removed from

the site. 2 days later, the levison inquiry took place in 20112012. and you can find that full interview and everything from heroin to covey, with one of the world's top newer psychopharmacology just on a youtube channel. well, he comes infamous for opium production has been lamented on native nation media in the past few days this after us troops rammed from afghanistan on the cover of night. joining me now from do by is have kind of sounds former ambassador to both china and pockets. son, ambassador john moses. i used to speak for afghanistan, foreign ministry, and is now vice president of the heart of major society about so thank so much for coming on. so they left in the middle of the night. i don't know what african authorities even thought about the fact they hadn't told the come on this on the us base in afghanistan, what do you make of the us military running away? the america, the throne is, is a, is a fact. this is something that we knew about for a long time. the question is, what do we do now now that the americans are leaving after 20 years,

what is the government going to do? what are the telephone going to do? and what is the region around the finest i'm going to do best? these are the key players. obviously, the united states will continue to have a key role or can union will have to continue to have a role other countries farther receive the funds from the national partners. donor countries that provide development assistance will have a, a key role to play. but it's basically up to the government, the taliban and the region around the understand that need to decide what they're going to do to prevent that. the gradation of the escalating violence into not just the civil war, but also regional proxy war that will dry and not just next door neighbors. one is a major regional power into something that will benefit no one and harm that people have understand, but also the region around the country while talking about the region right on cue . within days of the withdrawal, there's been the terran interest can the summit. what is the significance of the

summit in tap run every single one of the 6 next door neighbors and all the major regional powers in the broader region have extremely important roles to play when it comes to war and peace and understand on as a next door neighbor of understand as a country with which we share a common language, history, religion and significant common interests, both in the security arena, but also in the arena, economic cooperation, etc. iran has an absolute, the central role to play in support of the piece in. but iran cannot do that alone because it has difficult relations with saudi arabia, which is another important country in the region, not an expert on an important country in the region. and iran has to work with, which is the key backer of lavon. iran has to work with india, which is a key backer of the summit of a government. iran has to work with china with russia,

with this information. republics. it has to work with turkey. but the fact that the iran has extended unofficial invitation. another proficient invitation upon the fact that they have accepted that invitation and were in town for 2 days and also interacted not just with the iranians, but also with their fellow funds from the summit public side. those are very positive signs, but these hazard, disjointed efforts must, who are less into a region wide conversation into a region life and sense as because otherwise, as we witnessed in the 1900 ninety's, different sets of countries will move in, in different and most like the opposite direction. yeah, indeed, the iran is made a joint declaration with russia and turkey against israeli strikes on syria in the past few days. and then we reported reproach more attempts with saudi arabia,

but use a iran inviting the taliban. we had the spokesperson child shaheen. on this program, people can watch it on youtube channel. he didn't seem to be a head chopper or a stoner of women, or we didn't really get into l g b, you bless issues. has the taliban really changed or, or is that have been pretty much the kind of human rights abuses, abuses they are famous for being. that's an essential question that i think the leadership of the, of on have to answer. it's been very difficult to get the fall of arm to spell out their vision for a peaceful of understand their plan for what you mean going on, and then still not spelling it out how long to do to remind us how long we talked going on. they've been going on for more than 2 years. actually they've been these talks, not in the current format, but in, in, in different iterations. i've been going on at least 2013 if not earlier because

that's when the taliban office was initially established. and though, huh, and that's when i started the government, but it's been a few years that i am, i have not been in the government. they were very specific in their negotiations with the american because that was a goal that they had specifically outline the departure of foreign forces. but when it comes to negotiations with the government, the taliban has always stuck to very general principles and general statements, which is we want them to slam the government. we will honor the rights of citizens including women in accordance with shantia and islam. but they have not really gotten into the specifics of what that means so that you see when, when you, when you imagine, as i said, i mean i see dash, i think most people in the region realize how the relationship with the united states and british governments through proxies in syria, how can the united states be an honest broker in any of these talks?

you say that the relationship for 20 years again, this done a pretty complicated relationship. arguably, given that they supported the magenta dean, obviously that formed the taliban in the 1st place. how can they should, should the talks just not move? instead of they should be in beijing or moscow rather than war. and then dough, which is closely aligned to the united states, arguably where these are 2 things. one is the rule of the united states or the united states, as obviously as a major world power and responsibility to work for peace and understand if they have been a part of the war. and they started the war on october 7th, 2001, and now they're leaving after 20 years. so far with little regard to the consequences for the people who understand in the region. but this is hardly surprising that with little consequence. i mean, you know, you know, look at vietnam and it's even in nature, nation, mainstream media here,

the comparison, it's gone. no, you mean susie, why are african diplomats like you have served for afghanistan, the in, in china, and in part is that what, why, why do you bother with them? some may ask, and some afghans may ask, well, i mean they have, they have an interest in the region that they have outlined. this is not something that we are selling. they have outlined counterterrorism guarantees as a key national security interest of the united states related to they want to come back and region and that they want to guarantee them. they have to work for a peaceful, stable of understanding, a peaceful, stable region. they say they want that, but who finances, the taliban, who finances the terrorism? where are the weapons coming from an american weapons being used against afghan officials, while these i mean, these are weapons from all over the place. and that's a discussion that property is to these have to get into obviously the u. s. as to be held accountable and responsible for its actions going forward. and it has to

offer the diplomatic and economic support and political support. the president biden has committed themselves to the providing for the peace passes and one of them, but it's up to beijing, moscow, some about the valley they had on these capitals that must instead of talking about peaceful, stable and in general terms, they have to come together and find a very specific concrete support mechanism for the talent i was going to apply to do with the lead whenever they come on government and the relevant to, to do that, what you gotta do with all these other countries shouldn't be the african people themselves was primarily the responsibility of the people, but if you look at the map of this region of amazon as a landlord country, so whatever weapons explosives and foreign fighters flow into understand they come through neighboring countries. and so it's the responsibility of these different countries that are parties to the f one war that have to step up that have to make

a decision that continued fighting and continued violence is not in their interest . because if there is another collapse, god forbid enough understand another state collapse, then the consequences will be parable for the people. but it, the consequences will also not spare the region because they will be spell over of arizona spent over radicalism, extremism. and also, you know, the consequence that the region will not be able to achieve the common vision that the region find, the regional creativity, trade and trans of trade and increase prosperity. let's get to the prosperity because obviously the, the predictable pessimism about afghanistan in the nature nation. mainstream media repeats itself, specially after the withdrawal of us troops. how can i get this done cope without us, occupation, troops anecdotally, any person that i talk to from afghanistan to say there's been massive chinese

investment going on in afghanistan of infrastructure, project of mass strategic projects that hopefully will benefit the african people. he give us some optimism and positivity about that huge foreign investment right now. going into afghanistan. i think this is a starting point for not just the region because it's not just china that is outside of spectrum initiative and it's 4 and hundreds of billions of dollars into a stretch of projects. and then 2 other trades in transit and technology developing projects. but it's also india that has its own vision, regional connectivity and regional integration. russia has its own vision 30 about trying to envision it on august on the central asian neighbors. they have all prioritize economic development, regional economic integration, and increased trade in transit trade. so this is a moment when all the countries around the sun have come to the

same page when it comes to the future of the region, which is one of the common development you didn't mention, i presume, saudi arabia saudi arabia as well. but how do you read in terms of the hearts of a region? it's a little on the on the margins, if you like it farther afield. the countries that i outline are either next door neighbors or major regional powers that have outland, specific regional development plans with, with, with direct clinicians of, honest. and so there's a room initiative, for example, the chinese about line sees of understand as a link t link between the participant corridor, which as you know is a, is a multi $1000000000.00 project that's taking place right now. and the china central asia, west asia, on the quarter that goes from china to central asia, iran all the way to turkey. and linking these to would only be possible. so that's

where the location becomes vital for regional connectivity, not just in terms of physical infrastructure, but also in terms of the goods, people, energy, data and all that. and that's some, that's a vision that will benefit everyone. and for that you have to have a peaceful, stable, and so there is a, there is a, there's a trillion dollar opportunity for the region to work towards peace and security and honest. and which is very much of a go on in the coming few months. and mazda, thank you. thank you so much. after the break. ahead of what would have been the 53rd birthday of iconic theorist, an activist, smoke fisher. we examine the futures that never were not his friend and colleague, also david stubbs. what the legendary k punk found would have made of corona, virus capitalism, and marxist football. all listen more can we happen to have going underground

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy for an taishan, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. developments. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, a very critical time. time to sit down and talk me welcome back to my remarks. what would it be in the 53rd birthday of mark fisher legendary fear? his daughter, political activist, and engine at pioneer blogging under the monica cape punk scene by many as one of the greatest political thinkers of the 21st century. the influence of his writings on your liberalism, meritocracy, and class cannot be overstated. he was also a football fan, co founding the football blog minus the shooting. so that's 24 hours ahead of you or a 2020 final enjoy now, but his friend and colleague, david stubbs. david,

thanks so much for coming on. i'll get to football in a, in a bit, and my, and my is the shooting for those that don't know who mark fisher is. tell us why is considered by some to be one of the greatest english language thinkers off the 21st century. actually, any house, no way to begin, really because he called us such a sort of boss. did he just kind of boss terrain? in this monumental volume case, he does everything from cinema to renew liberties and he makes these kind of connections, you know, between popular culture and politics that people do that they did it in such a kind of, she was least our guy imagined that way when it comes up more than once with the image is inspirational. despite the defense of talks about melancholia, morning spare, and i think that, you know, you kind of mrs. that sort of the 21st century the same time he's desperate to kind

of a sort of a positivity, a sense of teachers in the sense of what is actually possible in a century in which that is kind of being forgotten. so yeah, absolutely. it's just the sheer range sheet energy, she erudition, but i think that entitled to those kind of it's, i mean just one dimension of his work. obviously, mental health let alone during a pandemic is become a mainstream concern in new liberal media. just remind is why he would call mental health privatized stress when it was used, the way that phrase is used in the media. well, yeah, i mean, i think from his point of view, it's obviously suffer mental health difficulties. but he didn't regard them as the most people do this, just something that is sort of randomly visited and people he regarded it as you can do to this stress becomes the size of that we're living in. and, you know,

he will pull the id, reply all the keys, he's will companies kind of make boss money, all sort of asked depressions and things like that. the whole industry that and the idea that a system that makes you sick is then to tend to be, you know, i think that was one of the things that kind of angry and he got open disdain for the mainstream media. so gold and academia as well? well, yes, because i suppose that's something that started in the ninety's and initially did kind of he was slightly young. he left his in the sense in the 90s. he belong to the base, which we subscribe to, what they send the celebration isn't, you know, they didn't, you know, he's, he thought it was so dry and capitalism isn't going to da contradictions, nothing ever dies and contradictions. so thank you. second self pass from left. this academic thinking in the 900, not in the 900 ninety's,

he regards to dr. mark was anything but dry and he gave us so to speak. you know, there's a kind of a very, very sort of passion, way in which will hold the audience always hand. when you saw it was easy start just kind of simplifies with with students and what young people are going through in this day and age and privileges that they've been denied that the previous generation had. and i think that's what i tell him to write. principal capital is realism. is that also? because i think he, you felt the kind of, this is what happened really a generation sort of post layer, which kind of pragmatism settin among the, imposed by the old on to the young. and it's kind of say, you know, reach coming from the people. how do these privileges, expectations of things that you can't obviously anymore lawyer expectations just labor and duties hold, you despise all of that. he wanted to kind of re ignite

a sense of the possible way further. nice. so we hope is too weak. if you just have more than and what was it like to know him? i mean, his vast references was one. what has to say there's a nod to roland boards and the french philosophers of the seventy's and eighty's. what was it like to know someone so well? read work with him. i was strange him and he wasn't this kind of intimidating character. i mean, well i get a personal need because of the 1st mention the tell you right? melody maker. and even on the reader, melody maker. so he kind of approached me, it was kind of some voice on the way the way it was great. and his sense of like to have with some know that i'm just margin the old. and so supposed to be, i didn't feel he was just kind of intimidating presence and he wasn't in any case, go up together and we chat about all kinds of things,

but not necessarily it's the sort of level of intensity that the in his text. i mean, you know, and so i think, you know, he would definitely approach approach was my primary is a friend really, but i mean, unlike continental philosophy, he seems, he just sounds when you read it much angrier as he relates politics to film and to music of him for those that don't know, melody make up very famous and went bust competitor the enemy. he sounds very so much anger in his writing with reference to popular culture and politics. yeah, i mean, i mean he's just one of the energies though. i think there's also a sort of sense of optimism as well that, you know, they spend, there's all kinds of things kind of rolling at the same time. he's writing, you know, it's just hugely usually energetic. i mean, my sense is the stuff from depression the actually suffered instrumental black self

worth is that it's completely futile when we need facebook. and i will not be silenced by, i always regard the energy, the as independent crating and writing this sort of towering edifices which really tend to pace down the condition of depression. i think that's going to send to the meeting. one of the things accounting for is energy, how prolific he was just how much ground he covers. and what do you think, what would they think of artists and writers and painters who still to this day will appear on a tv interview and go on? not political, i mean it, as he, as he killed the ability of celebrities to say that i think, i think he was, everything is political. you know, the idea that there will be things that operate outside of the political, you know, the politics of their life down here. i mean, he thought, actually inside this change roy sometime to go to mall shopping. all i didn't see

as a potential paradigm as to how calling is in the future. come and isn't working. he would think that elliptical in everything. obviously, he wrote about labors destruction, of working class aspiration from his was i have to ask you, what do you think he would make of this new labor leader relatively new care stormer, and some of his cabinet shadow cabinet members who seemed jacket. that capital is realism, you referred to in that. there is no alternative out that this is what it is. we can cut around the edges of bit, but there's no alternative to capitalism here. sadly, i think that some kissed arm is kind of resuming where labor's left off in 2015 and going by the same playbook. and, you know, making the same colors and refusing really to, you know, chasing a sort of an elderly generation generation expense of the young and really getting young people, any possibility or confidentiality. something's really believing now onto the

football tomorrow. why you have to remind us why joel. well, that famous snitch, of course, whose names of people to the british intelligence services of people he didn't like of condemning them as communist. why didn't he like wells description of football as more minus the shooting? yeah, well again, i think the probably those sentiments replace to stay on the call. so you know barry's intellectuals for football when something he did not share at all. football was another great popular passions. he was actually at hillsboro, the hills became nothing or support and he was nothing and he was at the notting of ours and when obviously the whole trifle social events unfolded it. the other end, which is linked to policing of the minus strike, which is mentioned in reporting about the hills, were inquiring mostly just shows how you know everything is going to go with

someone. you may have noticed the way the current tournament here a 2020 is being portrayed in wow. hurricanes. amazing green issues. i mean, these are all working class men, young men. why do you think none of them stop to think of why there are no working class men or why the disproportionately hardly any working class brain surgeons or a symphony composes or architect? why does no one fits up to think that they somehow get into football? but they, they don't bother with those other professions. well, yeah, i mean, you know, that's one concerning that question. really. it's that goes back to, i guess, university and student grounds this up on that. i mean, i went locks it, but if it 950, well you know, i went to be nice and 81 walks with 951. it would not be. so the challenge is going to offset coming from my background and 30 is all or 3040 is all i equally wouldn't

stand to challenge, you know it's, i mean, yes, absolutely. you know those, those questions to be should be res. i mean it, in terms of like, i guess that the question of class becomes obscure because obviously, well as weak string li, wealthy nowadays is one possibility. but no, i mean not that is absolutely the kind of question to be raised. nothing about just one of the things that mark, believe me. no, it is kind of raising questions, especially in connection with popular cultural, everyday culture, likable and public. whichever. and connection to politics in a way that's just simply ignore by, you know, most commonplace would. you would he and you amused by this take go for this big conversation amongst circle mainstream media talking about garrett, south gate, marxism in because of taking me in the civil rights struggle. i mean the, what's your take on that to be marxism is rather strange. i'm sure

it's just what you can really make, the claim isn't essential, decency about this team. and you can even say, well, if they represent a certain kind of place, another represent a certain kind of patriotism that you can make an argument. all pages and pages doesn't have to be about kind of flag waving folks of the queen in the background. those singing down bus 2 songs or 2, following the ray and all of that kind of dress. nonsense. patriotism might just simply mean as people at mark's rash, written rhyme certainly have demonstrated through the through that thieves. it could just mean feeling a duty of care to your community, to your country and making sure that you know that everybody's okay. so, and i think that's something that goes beyond all believe also that one of the kind of like this to the, to even the fact that like, it depends on immigration, you know, that you know, the aggressive and immigration policies, the suit to tell them about 2 or 3 players in this accounting team. and just

finally i got to ask you, since you're, you've written about electronic music. i mean, do you think that the government will weaponized corona virus. young people further in terms of night clubs and the music industry and popular culture in favor of i suppose opera or art that benefits the status quo will be coming hard and hard. i think in pre kind of virus for young people to find the kind of spaces to enjoy, you know, res, clubbing or whatever. i mean, all of the by rising property prices. and yeah, i mean, even if it's not active in conscious policy is something that's definitely happening. david subs, thank you. thank you. that's it for the show. will be back on monday, did all the vaccine apart with simon's out 2 times and after 2 k is activation takes center stage and you gave him the confirmation of private to mars johnson's

freedom day time until then keep in touch with social media and let us know who you think will in your 2020 me

the quitting a country when your opponent is its strongest power loves the draw between the us, fill out from us, gonna stand on the vietnam war. the mid reports and re can, should territories that the telephone is once again, imposing severe restrictions under serial law. please help the haitian government asks the u. s. and un doesn't troops to protect countries key infrastructure days and the president was assassinated in his own home, plunging the island nation into term on banging the drug for inclusion. and could see a senior us federal agency goes, woke, but finds itself in hot water for having to photo shopped, disable people into the cover photo of its diversity.