peter, as well as the american foreign policy blob, struggles to come determine with washington the peak and f ganesh than others are thinking about the future. how will this country interact with the world and the region also an update on julian sarge. this travesty in crime against humanity continues the discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess. patrick came in and in plymouth. he's to enter, turn bounder of 21st century wire dot com. and also we have going diesel, and he is a professor at the university of southeastern norway as well as the author of the new book, re power politics in the 4th industrial revolution, or a gentleman cross off rules and effects. that means you can jump in anytime you want. i always appreciate it. 3. ok, let's go to hospital, glenn. you know, american media is obsessed about the withdrawal of afghanistan. how it got to this point,

who's to blame. but very few people actually thinking about the future except for maybe the drifters that want to somehow profit from the post more environment having an aircraft outside the country prepared to leap in if they, if necessarily, i mean this is, these are the people that don't want this to end, however, a lot of things are happening and it's been and they're not getting a lot of coverage. just recently the taliban visited russia. the russians obviously are very concerned. what's going to happen next? because the we have to spend in respect then ask and it stands borders. and of course, the metaphor of saigon is every on a lot of people's minds. i don't know if it's over rock, but people have to be prepared here because we have american troops going across their border, leaving the country. that is obviously a security risk. so how is this going to be played out? because during the entire course of the history of cross start,

we have talked about how long this was been going on here. and i've always said, and i hope i'm wrong, the region has to take care of itself. and i think that's an opportunity. go ahead when know us withdrawals very quickly. there's a vacuum left behind. it is obviously the challenges for the neighbors because they're not going anywhere. and obviously, as you mentioned, direct is obvious. it's quite obvious this as this could very easily be stabilized ventilation. instability in a more instability. and i think i have not gotten government troops, all right. explaining to touching the power button and again the building having this renewal of the civil war of the 90 s can be quite problematic. something and obviously most goes quite concerned about it. but again, there's also some opportunities i would say because the u. s. strategy has gone on . it's all the central asia was to lodge extend to the couple of the central nation, read them from countries like russia and china. so. ringback this was with comic

projects that everything was geared to in this direction now, and this was consistent with the u. s. u. k. history of your asia, which has been brought to divide by the major powers. so the news coming out now from china and russian, but even iran to smaller extent is the failure of the us natal condition in the sun while it's created challenges, it also opens up so for today's military, your ation solutions, something that russia would support as well and this would include most of the neighbors come from russia, china, iran, central asia, live in india, and the world integration of this. great, they're your ration region, which is a key project for the chinese and russians call to really be complete without and it's coming down through economic coming to the and we are here in a chinese is interested in to push this trillion dollar amount and all the initiative, something investments talking about and obviously with the welcome and there's also

other years for corporation. i would also just love the shanghai cooperation organization. we're just now forming us the main organization to organize the ratio which has all the main status. so russia, china, india, the central ations and ideally, would also bring in iran later on as full members, not just observer. and this could be of this institutional great mission. so again, this risks, but there's also tunic is to finally find the regional solution, which is them based on connecting these countries instead of yes, flipping them. you know, it's very interesting because if you, if you look at and take seriously some of the issues that the taliban has talked about over the years, they don't have ambitions outside of the boarders about them. however, there's a very important caviar here in the us back door continues to support the corrupt

regime and war. they could change the, the facts on the ground because you're going to be that have government, you're using the other side of the border as a paid then you know, have the conflict spill because of the afghan taliban are going to continue their path to power as it were, and you have these troops in going over the border. they may go and go after them, which of course is the worst nightmare for the entire region. it seems to me, it's no barrier. contingent in us is going to leave and i keep asking experts, what does it mean and what does the word finally, leave me go ahead. yeah, there's a good question. what is leave mean? just look over to the situation in iraq, and you can see that even a us pull out could mean nato coming in or multinational force. and that's just moving the chess pieces around. because sensibly nato's controlled by the united

states in the, in the u. k. effectively, in terms of the bulk of its forces and its strategic direction. so for, i guess it's a big, it's a big problem. you know, is not an easy solution to it a, no, there's never been an easy solution for western powers or, or even your asian powers and balancing the, the situation of gast and for centuries. so we're right back to alexander the great, so we're running into the same similar situations in terms of geography, but you know, the u. s. grand strategy. generally, if you look at the arc of the strategy over the last couple of administrations, it's to slowly pull out their hard assets out of places in the middle east, and then rely on what they call local enforcers in order to prosecute western us or, or largely corporate policy direction. and so who is that local enforcer for afghanistan is certainly can't be the afghan government in cobol or the afghan army

because they'll fold like deck chairs on the titanic. you know, so it's pakistan would be that local enforcer. but that hasn't worked because they pump billions of dollars into, to fight counter you know, for counterterrorism funding in pakistan arguably is all probably people believe the i s i is partly responsible for a lot of the terrorists activity and extremism and gun running and all sorts sorts of things so that there's a huge amount of problems. i don't think there's an easy solution, but what happens in this situation where there's no easy solution as the opportunists will seize on business opportunities. afghans been a great money spinner for the military industrial complex. the global corporate transnational corporate haven't been able to get us a stable footholds. so in the meantime, just make money off of the military situation. the price of heroin globally has plummeted. so, you know, that does benefit certain people in,

in the pharmaceutical industry as well as on the black market. and just generally the malays of cities around the world. so is this, the, this was going to be long term, low intensity conflict in and out again. another $911.00 type narrative could be plastered on afghanistan and then they would come in again, full throttle in 10 years. i mean, so i don't think the prospects are great looking at it right now in terms of the long historical picture, particularly since 2001 limited. and i keep using like a word here. it's me, it's a grips. i mean, this is really wind, a lot of pockets for people are all very long time and, and saying that it's something that bit of worries. i mean, we have martin millen that had to be joining the staff. i mean, you basically crying and running, president biden, you know, what about children and women, you know, and all that. i mean, here's, here's

a guy who's supposed to be in charge of the national security sate worried about the nation building. and so we're, we're worried about it, but he's making a whole lot of money like they have for decades. glenn, one of the things that is very interesting is that go back to your 1st stanza here . this is the real opportunity for russia and china. and then, and then later as such as pakistan is pointed out here. but i mean if, if there is a, if there is a solid consent of these large bowers outside about a span, i think that gives reason the hope here because they all see the back of the matter is the us respected. but we have that get if that doesn't really affect, you know, i would say what happens when i get to spend affects the region greatly. and these be, these are real stakeholders here. i mean, what could be a 1st step here? because the russians have been very open as being a fair broker,

but they have invited in talk to the taliban, even though they have been in russia is being a terrorist organization. mean they're going the extra mile here. what. how is this going to affect the internal of of come, who, because the russia can't be a guarantor of the government and can couple because it doesn't have the, the, the strength and support in the country. go ahead now. well, obviously the vacuum of the field by some states, i mentioned that i cannot make which where china has to main actor about the security of the, obviously russia, it's like you security provider. but what it was referred to then was the instability along those based on and then especially project gets done. and they will need to rely on the c s deal, which is the regional russian lead military alliance. so, and this will create a greater demands for when you secured the institutions to the backend. but that's very different from suggesting that troops or what would be something because there is simply no, no chance at all at most, whatever, except putting it in work. what's on the ground in afghanistan,

and neither should i think the less over the past 20 years has been. well that the piece was to fall in place of control. now we'll have to. so obviously more schools would prefer power sharing government in, in income rather than similar to taking over. however, if it takes over russia, it's not going to stand in this way and dictates that, you know, what government should look like. and simply, they're gonna have to make it in place for the best possible governments come into play. and once the government is in place, use the magic tools to help, but also the economic offers of corporations and simply begin to integrate this, this country into the ration region. so there's some problems about the issues associated undermine the huge challenges and risk, especially if this are still logged into a huge, massive civil war. and now it's very still across the borders. i'll give you the

last minute to you, patrick, here as the, as the foreign policy blog watches is unfold. have they learned any lessons from the last 20 years and 40 seconds? i don't, i think it's worse. the further you go, the younger these people are getting, you know, people like jim sullivan running. the white house is foreign policy portfolio and he's what 40 years old. what is, what does he know? the main problem in afghan stance? always going to be. we're trying to impose a western style democracy on was effectively an area that's been governed by tribal forms of government and tribal politics and until they can bridge that gap and do that in a, in a good way for both sides. then i think you're going to have this constant friction . yeah, i think that i think the u. s. and western power should stop helping up canister, then it might turn out better. we'll see are gentlemen that jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real stay with the

ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, accept where's the short or conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at the point obviously is too great truck, rather than fear i would take on various jobs with artificial intelligence, real summoning the theme and a robot must protect its own existence with existence. join me every 1st day on the alex simon show. and i'll be speaking to guests in the

world, the politics, sport, business and show business. i'll see you then. me. she was simply real thing a little slow, letting them go by susan. well, the animal to along the else come a little to go and see me when you switch to a human meeting in the room, initial pathetic stamey, i'm going to spell them. let me know what's going on and we'll get you started with you soon. this new looking here. when you mentioned the chemical illusion initially, script on a normal financial, young, moody,

an illusion. you lose could put it in. you could shoot it to the lower. ah, ah, welcome back across the top where all things are considered. peter labelle, this is the home edition, remind you were discussing some real names. i okay, let's change gears gentlemen. let's talk about the fate. the tragic fate of julie. no salvage over the last week or so. we've seen the b o. j, a case against filling a size collapse complete, where he collapsed. i mean, it is this, it is floating in mid air gentlemen. okay. though it, it hasn't changed the position of the d o j the u. s. government to try again to extra di jolina. they say their case against them was he hacked, he was

a hacker this time, this was what made different from the in the previous administration. this is the, there was an informant in iceland, gentlemen, that had a known criminal history was committing crimes while he was working with the it is unclear if he was compensated. i'm on a terribly. but there's obviously he was the key to they, the prosecution persecution of julian assigned. and so, and then on top of it, the element of desperation is seeping in the terms and conditions of his detainment and united states where he might serve his term if convicted badly, the smells of desperation, the case cases collapse. ok. and now they're trying to look for a way out to save face instead of just dropping this ridiculous bear in the 1st place. go ahead. no, you're right. it's all about. it's all about saving face. i don't think that they can save face in the long run. this is just the machine doing what the machine does

. you know the amazing that the federal government would, would pay a convicted felon to fabricate evidence for a federal case. and then, you know, and this should cause it to collapse. i mean, the, but it's not because they're there on a mission. and the mission is it's about shutting down parts of the internet globally. this is already being done by a silicon valley, but there's some loose ends to tie up independent portals. free press, stopping any real leaks from happening. that's really what we helix represents. so they're so far down the road with julia signed with this. the sham of a process. it's always been the case of the missing case. ok. and now it's kind of obvious, but where you were so far down the road and now they're making promises that we're going to move it to us. you know, he'll be moved to australia and things like this and there's all sorts of other caviar that are put in. and it's quite clear that this is all an abrogation of due

process. because, you know, you talk about these things. they're speaking like he's already been convicted basically. so there's an that should give you the signal that's the dog whistle from washington that he will, he will be extradited. he will be convicted. and then what they do after that in terms of shuffling them around, is anyone's guess. so i don't believe any guarantees made by the d o j because they can even keep an international treaty like, you know, the jcp have that they work 2 years on. don't think that the keep any promises before the fact of what they're going to do to julius time. so there's, there's never been a case. and, but unfortunately, i've sat through that trial in london for a week and it's just unbelievable how corrupt the system is geared against him. they have him locked down. they'd like to drag this out forever. and i'm sad to say

they'd be happy if he didn't make it out of prison. that would just make things a lot easier for them to him. i mean, that's the strategy. obviously, you know, going also, you know, the d o j has act on the face because it was actually recognize the, the ruling of this very peculiar judge in the u. k. you kneeling with this case here. is that doing massage work to be expedited. his faith in the, the american legal system in the prison system would be in question. and i think that it's obvious to anyone. but the, you know, to, to patrick's point here is that this is just to drag it out. i mean, this could, i mean, even if he were expedited, i mean the, the case itself could take a decade, it could take that long and considering the way the d o j. previously has previewed it case is that even during a bunch of lawyers wouldn't be able to see the evidence against him. a

jury is up in the air, a judge would determine what that is is valid. i mean, this is just a, i mean, calling it a tangle record is insulting. can go rooms. i mean, what kind of process this is? i mean, they're doing a fun should have no, they mean they certainly have no bait in the british legal system. jumping bail, oh my goodness, and being in superman like that. so i mean, it is an atrocity all the way around. and then you know, what the biggest route is, is that we're one of the only programs talking about this. there's nothing in the mainstream in the us about this. so, i mean, this is, this is, this is a huge conspiracy of silence when the crime being committed in broad daylight. all this was recognized in early nineties, the paradox of having essentially a liberal empire that it will start to tear away the domestic system. and again, this before comes an interesting or unique form of author and isms as upgrade to

point out to demonstrates how the rules law is being corrupted. so, you know, society based on the rule of law, the focus is on the integrity of the process and not the outcome, even though the outcome of august would have been decided. but what we see here is that the decision is a little been made to destroy us on which lake males have demonstrated that the legal process is a victim the weapon. but if they don't even need really conviction, all that needed to drive on the court proceedings for eternity and, and therefore just keep him in prison. and again, it's important for us to walk back because he's eating away the principles or credibility of their legal system. keep in mind that this is the journalist, they arrested the you and demanded they should be released. the court, you court said denied extradition in january, and that's the point out correctly. he witnessed read that there was admitted to her blood advocated accusations against the thomson. yet now they're going to, let's give the u. k, u s. government permission to appeal to this is simply because to making all that

assurances which, well, let's build, it's not going to be really worth that much. and you know, even if you will be transferred after a while to say, doesn't get jeffrey in treatment in jail or so he will even be allowed to go to australia even if, if they will take over the years and years. and they're correct. the media does not seem to care about this. if this was one of america, the other. if there is a gentleman, there will be anxious. the media would not stop right about it. but some of the non issues and we're, we're in the media. this is quite extraordinary. no interest at all. really. this is quite amazing. yeah, i mean, i'm glad i had you on recently we, when you were trying to explain to me with your great intellect, with my mind or intellect, trying to explain to me what rules based order is. how does the julian assign case fit in with the rules based order that we have secretary state blink and you did his, you know, rules based order tour and then back right within the u. k. what is the journalist

day when, when join advantage is in prison? so what are the rules based order? when it comes to the fate of julian a so much in the faith of journalism which is basically faded away, go ahead. i mean, what i'm getting at it says rank apostrophe continue. go ahead one. no, i agree. and again, this is where international law and the rules based on obviously the verge, because the rules based order gifts for the special privileges space on the so called the liberal complication. so it becomes a huge paradox at the end. but again, this thing with the reason why the media doesn't care because they did, they did like a founder previously when he revealed the bush crimes. then he was a special on the left. he was a bit of a hero. our in the trump era, they then began to lend themselves very much against the obviously there were very much pro journalism and freedom journalism every time from tweet about cnn. they

were very much concerned about the tackling journalism, but this actually actual journalists to go to jail. that doesn't seem to be much interest them. or the reason is revealed a lot of the war crimes committed on their obama and also he embarrassed clinton in 2016. they blamed funds to great extent for clinton losing and trump winning. and in addition, in the air of russia, gates, when that through the russian agent laid him, all the rules could be thrown out the window. because now your agent, the russia, and it's not a journalist, there was a lot of supply. and it's very dangerous place to be, so need to find a way of walking this back in the media should really go back there. may go. well, empire never said, sorry, patrick, let's remind our viewers what the alleged crime, the doing, astonish, committed. he revealed the war crimes of great powers, particularly of the united states. that's why he's sitting in prison now. and

that's why they want him, essentially, to die in prison because he told the truth about war crimes committed by western powers better. yeah. in his, his queen's counselors during the crown court hearings before the pandemic, they dismantled the, the u. s. case just day by day just tore it to pieces of fitzgerald and summers and they did it annually. and the argument from the us side, from the, the extradition side, in the us, how to tired guns there, there argue was, well, that argument doesn't have standing because this is purely about extradition and not about whether the charges have any merit or anything like that. so that was just kind of a pre, a preview of what you, you're going to see in a u. s. us national security court. but the main thing, the main part about all of this is in a democratic system. it does matter what happens outside the courtroom. in terms of

the public conversation and the press would normally lead that the press would elevate the issue. people would rally around that again, due process, rule of law. all of that, it's been wiped away. that says little more about the state of democracy. in the democratic world, it's leading the rules based international order and in the rules based international order. you as the, the gold makes the rules or he has the most money makes the rules. but it's funny that when anthony lincoln tried to pull the rules based card with china at that summit, alaska, china reminded anthony blinking, who has the gold, apparently, because they didn't show any respect to the u. s. is shenanigans summit. but so it is very worrying because this is, that is a sunset moment for, for democracy. and the staunch case, it's just is a touchstone of,

of the process here. when this is all about is they, they may never want another julian ever to happen again. 2020 seconds go ahead. yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. and he is achieving incredible status amongst activists and people who really believe in the free press and he's become a real icon is the question is, can more people rally around this issue? what, what will that, what, what, what would take for that to happen? that's the big question is looming, and if it doesn't happen, what does that mean for democracy and constitutional forms of government going forward? lot of say, i want to think i get them off low and, and i want to think or be worth watching. if you are the next time, remember the ah

ah ah ah, is your media a reflection of reality? in a world transformed what will make you feel safe? tyson lation for community you going the right way? where are you being somewhere? which direction? what is true? what is the in the world corrupted? you need to descend. ah. so join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah

ah, no, you don't do it. you know, it was nice to number, didn't put one in it. yeah, i don't, i don't, i don't need to be on the phone that i've all use in the for the owner. and then i guess it's like, i mean that i think we're pretty on the find out what is the most of it for me to get back to your call. so we can just talk to the middle initial group, and those who knew that belong aplenty,

possibly individuals going to separate your the reviving the spirit of near not please take legation in europe. russia take the softer from the coven practicing. i'll talk to a senior official health rest of your a. it should were checked and those offered by moscow asian as us troops, bags african, it's dawn is being torn apart by ranging conflicts and a humanitarian crisis in a scenario to run medicine for what played out in somalia. starvation will eclip devastation over time because that's according to our fun which planes 11 people are dying every minute from hunger and wild. got exclusive insight from the charity also i had.