brutal theocracy that did that, bryan named the country from 996 to 2001. of course, in viet spend a lot of money in afghanistan, but it also emboldened the changes enough kind of sun also emboldens a lot. randy and get there a groove which shifted its base, functioning purity in kind of to the part of the bottle between up to 7 bucket especially next to the table. not bring you up today. and i'm here and i don't forget that we've got a website full of stories too. you can find it and asked you to call the summer solutions where we focus on the solutions. not so much. the problem, stacy, right. we are joined by jeff booth author of the price of tomorrow.

ah ah hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things considered non peter labelle as the american foreign policy blob struggles to come determine with washington the peak, an afghan than others are thinking about the future. how will this country interact with the world and the region also an update on julian sarge? this travesty in crime against humanity continues the discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess. better gaming in plymouth. he's to enter turn founder of

21st century wire dot com. and also we have going visa, and he is a professor at the university of southeastern norway as well as the author of the new book, re power politics in the 4th industrial revolution. or a gentleman cross off rules and effect. that means you can jump in anytime you want . i always appreciate it. 3. ok, let's go to hospital, glenn. you know, american media is obsessed about the withdrawal of afghanistan. how it got to this point, who's to blame. but a few people actually thinking about the future except for maybe the drifters that want to somehow profit from the post more environment having an aircraft outside the country prepared to leap in a net. if necessarily, i mean this is, these are the people that don't want this to end. however, a lot of things are happening and it's been and they're not getting a lot of coverage. just recently the taliban visited russia. the russians obviously are very concerned. what's going to happen next? because the we have to spend in respect then ask and it stands borders.

and of course, the metaphor of saigon is every on a lot of people's minds. i don't know if it's over rock, but people have to be prepared here because we have american troops going across their border, leaving the country. that is obviously a security risk. so how is this going to be played out? because during the entire course of the history of cross thought, we have talked about how long this was been going on here. and i've always said, and i hope i'm wrong, the region has to take care of itself. and i think that's an opportunity. go ahead and no, i agree, and the us withdrawal us very quickly. there's a vacuum left behind. it is obviously the challenges for neighbors because they're not going anywhere. and obviously as you mentioned, direct is all of this, this, this could very easily be stabilized ventilation in the military and i'm more instability. so i think i have not gotten government to read explaining to projects

. and again, the possibility of having this renewal of the civil war of the 90 s could be quite problematic something and obviously most goes quite concerned about it. but again, there's also some opportunities i would say because the u. s. strategy and it's all the centralization was too large, extensive the central nation region from countries like russia and china. so this was with economic projects that everything was geared to in this direction. now and this was consistent with the u. s. u. k. history of your asia, which has been brought to divide by the major powers. so the news coming out from china and russian, but even iran to smaller extent is the failure of the us natal condition in the sun while it's chris on the challenges. it also opens up, so for today's military, you're ation solutions. something that russia was support as well. and this was the

include, most of the neighbors come from russia, china, iran, central asia, leaving india and the world integration of this great 3 ration region, which is a key project for the chinese russians to be complete without because and it's coming down through economic coming to the and we are here in a chinese is interested in to push this trillion dollar bump enrolled initiative on something investments talking about. and i was obviously would welcome. and there's also other years for corporation. i would also just lost the shanghai cooperation organization, which is now forming us the main organization to organize the race which has all the main status. so russia, china, india, the central ations and ideally, would also bring in iran later on as full members, not just observer. and this could be of this institutional great mission. so again, this risks, but there's also for tunic, is to finally find the regional solution,

which is them based on connecting these countries instead of yes, flipping them. you know, it's very interesting because if you, if you look at and take seriously some of the issues that the taliban had talked about over the years, they don't have ambitions outside of the boarders about them. however, there's a very important caviar here in the u. s. u, a back door continues to support the corrupt regime in cub wolf. they could change the, the facts on the ground because you're going to be that have government troops using the other side of the border as a pain. then you know, have the conflict spill because we have the taliban are going to continue their path. the power as it were. and you have these troops in going over the border. they may go and go after them, which of course, is the worst nightmare for the entire region. it seems to me,

it's no barrier. contingent in us is going to leave and i keep asking expert, what does it mean and what does the word finally, leave me go ahead. yeah, there's a good question. what is leave mean? just look over to the situation in iraq, and you can see that even a us pull out could mean nato coming in or multinational force. and that's just moving the chess pieces around. because sensibly nato's controlled by the united states in the, in the u. k. effectively, in terms of the bulk of its forces and it's strategic direction. so for, i guess it's a big, it's a big problem. you know, is not an easy solution to it. you know, there's never been an easy solution for western powers or, or even your asian powers in balancing the situation of gas down for centuries. so, right back to alexander the great, so running into the same similar situations in terms of geography. but you know,

the u. s. grant strategy. generally, if you look at the arc of the strategy over the last couple of administrations, it's to slowly pull out their hard assets out of places in the middle east, and then rely on what they call local enforcers in order to prosecute western us or largely corporate policy direction and so who is that local enforcer for afghanistan is certainly can't be the afghan government in cobol or the afghan army because they'll fold like deck chairs on the titanic. you know, so it's pakistan would be that local enforcer. but that hasn't worked because they pump billions of dollars into, to fight counter, you know, for counterterrorism funding and pakistan arguably is all probably the people believe the i s i is partly responsible for a lot of terrorist activity and extremism and gun running and all sorts sorts of things so that there's a huge amount of problems. i don't think there's an easy solution,

but what happens in this situation where there is no easy solution as the opportunists will seize on business opportunities. afghans been a great money spinner for the military industrial complex, the global corporate transnational, corporate haven't been able to get us a stable footholds. so in the meantime, just make money off of the military situation. the price of heroin globally has plummeted. so, you know, that does benefit certain people in, in the pharmaceutical industry as well as on the black market. and just generally the malays of cities around the world. so is this, the, this was going to be long term, low intensity conflict in and out again. another $911.00 type narrative could be plastered on afghanistan and then they would come in again, full throttle in 10 years. i mean, so i don't think the prospects are great looking at it right now in terms of the

long historical picture, particularly since 1001 limited. and i keep using like a word here. it's me, it's a grips. i mean, this is really why a lot of pockets for people are all very long time and, and saying that is something that's been worried. i mean, we have mark miller that had to be joining stop. i mean, you basically crying and run a president biden. you know, what about children and women, you know, and all that. i mean here's, here's a guy who's supposed to be in charge of the national security being said, worried about the nation building. and so we're, we're worried about his buddies making a whole lot of money like they have for decades. glenn, one of the things that is very interesting is that go back to your 1st stanza here . this is the real opportunity for russia and china. and then again, player such as pakistan is pointed out here, but i mean if, if there is a, if there is a solid consent of these large powers outside about a span,

i think that gives reason the hope here because they all see the back of the matter is the us, it respected, but we happens that get if that doesn't really affect, you know, i would say what happens when i get to spend affects the region greatly. and these, these are real stakeholders here. i mean, what could be a 1st step here? because the russians have been very open to being a fair broker they have, but they have invited and talk to the television even though they have been in rushes in a terrorist organization when they're going the extra mile here. what, how is this going to affect the internal, there's a couple because the russia can't be a guarantor of the government and couple, because it doesn't have the, the, the strength and the support in the country now. well, obviously the vacuum of the field by some states, i mentioned that i cannot make which where china has domain actor above the security of the obviously ross. it's

a key security provider. but what i was referring to then was the instability along those based on and then especially tajikistan. and they will need to rely on the c s, which is the regional russian lead military alliance. so, and this will create a greater demands for when you secure the institutions to feel the vacuum. but that's very different from suggesting that to absorb recess would be something because there is simply no, no chance at all at most whatever except putting it in work was on the ground. and either should, i think the lesson over the past 20 years has been well that the piece was to fall in place of control. now we'll have to so obviously the school would prefer power sharing government in, in couple of rather than similar to taking over. however, if to tell what, thinks over russia is not going to stand in the way and dictates that, you know, what government should look like. simply they're gonna have to make it in place for the best possible governments come into play. and what that meant is in place use

the magic tools to help, but also the economic offers of corporations and simply begin to integrate this, this country into the ration region. so there's some problem is about the issue of assertion, undermine the huge challenges and risk, especially this are still law into huge massive civil war and now it's very like across the borders. so i'll give you the last minute to you, patrick, here as the, as the foreign policy blog watches is unfold. have they learned any lessons from the last 20 years? at 40 seconds? i don't, i think it's worse. the further you go, the younger these people are getting, you know, people like jim sullivan running. the white house is foreign policy portfolio and he's what 40 years old. what is, what does he know? the main problem? enough gas dance always going to be. we're trying to impose a western style democracy on was effectively an area that's been governed by tribal

forms of government and tribal politics and until they can bridge that gap and do that in a, in a good way for both sides. then i think you're going to have this constant friction . yeah, i think that i think the u. s. and western power should stop helping top canister. then it might turn out better. we'll see our intent, amanda. jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real. stay with our tea. ah ah, ah ah, ah.

the the news welcome back across the top where all things are considered. i'm peter labelle. this is the home edition to remind you were discussing some real news. i okay, let's change gears gentlemen. let's talk about the, the tragic fate of julie no salvage over the last week or so. we have seen the b o . j, a case against filling a size collapse complete, where he collapsed. i mean,

it is this, it is floating in mid air gentlemen. okay. though it, it hasn't changed the position of the game, the u. s. government to try again to expedite jolena. did you say that their case against them was he hacked, he was a hacker this time, this was what made different from the in the previous administration. this is the, there was an informant. in iceland, a gentleman that had known criminal history was committing crimes. while he was working with the it is unclear, he was compensated, i'm on a terribly but there's obviously he was the key to they. the prosecution persecution of julian assigned. and so, and then on top of it, the element of desperation is seeping in the terms and conditions of his detainment and united states where he might serve his term if convicted badly, the smells of desperation, the case,

the cases collapsed. ok. and now they're trying to look for a way out to save face instead of just dropping this ridiculous bear in the 1st place. go ahead. no, you're right. it's all about. it's all about saving face. i don't think they can save face in the long run. this is just the machine doing what the machine does amazing that the federal government would, would pay a convicted felon to fabricate evidence for a federal case. and then, you know, and this should cause it to collapse. i mean the, but it's not because they're there on a mission. and the mission is it's about shutting down parts of the internet globally. this is already being done via silicon valley, but there's some loose ends to tie up independent portals, free, pressed, stopping any real leaks from happening. that's really what wiki leaks represents. so they're so far down the road with julia signed with this. the sham of a process. it's always been the case of the missing case. ok. and now it's kind of

obvious, but where you are so far down the road and now they're making promises that we're going to move it to austria will be moved to australia and things like this. and there's all sorts of other caveats that are put in, and it's quite clear that this is all an abrogation of due process. because, you know, you talk about these things are speaking like he's already been convicted basically . so there isn't that that should give you the signal, that's the dog whistle from washington, that he will, he will be extradited, he will be convicted. and then what they do after that in terms of shuffling them around, is anyone's guess. so i don't believe any guarantees made by the d o j because they can't even keep an international treaty like, you know, the jcp a that they work 2 years on. don't think that the keep any promises before the fact of what they're going to do to julius time. so there's never been a case. and, but unfortunately, i've sat through that trial in london for a week,

and it's just unbelievable how corrupt the system is geared against him. they have him locked down. they'd like to drag this out forever. and i'm sad to say they'd be, maybe if he didn't make it out of prison, that would just make things a lot easier for them to him. i mean, that's the strategy. obviously, you know, going also, you know, the d o j has egged army base because it was actually recognize the, the ruling of this very peculiar judge in the u. k. you dealing with this case here, is that doing massage work to be exercising his faith in the the american legal system in the prison system would be in question. and i think that it's obvious to anyone. but the, you know, to, to patrick's point here is that this is just to drag it out. i mean, this could, i mean, even if he were expedited, i mean the, the case itself could take a decade. it could take that long and considering the way the d o j. previously is

preview the case, is that even during the sanchez lawyers wouldn't be able to see the evidence against him, a jury is up in the air. a judge would determine what that is is valid. i mean, this is just a, i mean, calling it a tangle record is insulting. can rooms. i mean, what kind of process is that? i mean they're doing assign should have no, they mean they certainly have no base. the british legal system jumping bail. oh my goodness and being in superman like that. so i mean, it is an atrocity all the way around. and then, you know, what the biggest route is, is that we're one of the only programs talking about this. there's nothing in the mainstream in the us about this. so i mean, this is, this is, this is a huge conspiracy of silence when the crime being committed in broad daylight. all this was recognized in early nineties that a paradox of having essentially

a liberal empire that it will start to tear away at the domestic system. and again, this before becomes an interesting or unique form of arthur and isms as your path correct to point out to demonstrates how the rules law is being corrupted. so in a society based on the rule of law, the focus is on the integrity of the process. and not the outcome, even though the outcome of august would have been decided. but what we see here is that that decision is a little been made to destroy us on which lake males have demonstrated that the legal process is a victim. the weapon that is, they don't even need really a conviction old need is to drive on the court proceedings for eternity and therefore just keep him in prison. and again, it's important for us to walk back because it's eating away the principles and credibility of their legal system. keep in mind that this is the journalist they arrested the un demanded they should be released. the court court said denied extradition in january, and that's the point that correctly he witness recent,

there was admitted to advocate and accusations against the function yet now they're going to let's give the u. k, u s. government permission to appeal this is simply because making all the assurances which one, let's build, it's not going to really worth that much and you know, even if you will be transferred after a while to say it doesn't get jeffrey in treatment in jail or so he will even be allowed to go to australia, even if he, if they will take over the years and years and they're correct. the media does not seem to care about this. if this was one of america, the other, if there is this gentleman, there will be tanks and the media would non stop right about it. but some of the non issues and we're, where's the media? this is quite extraordinary. no interest at all. really. this is quite amazing. yeah, i mean the glen i had you on recently we, when you were tried to explain to me with your great intellect, with my mind or intellect,

trying to explain to me what rules based order is. how does the julian assign case fit in with the rules based order that we have the secretary state of lincoln did his, you know, rules based order tour and then back right within the u. k. what is the journalist day when, when julian advantage is in prison? so what are the rules based order? when it comes to the fate of julian authority, the fate of journalism which is basically faded away, go ahead. i mean, what i'm getting at it was rank apostrophe continue. go ahead one. no, i agree. and again, this is where international law and the rules based on are obviously diverged because the rules based order gifts for the special privileges space on the so called the liberal complication. so have becomes a huge paradox at the end. but again, this thing with the reason why the media doesn't care because they did, they did like a previous lives when he revealed that bush crimes. then he was

a special on the left. he was a bit of a hero. our in the trump era they, they began to lend themselves very much against the obviously they were very much pro journalism and freedom journalism every time from the tweet about so cnn. they were very much concerned about the pac on journalism. but this actually actual journalist to go to jail, there doesn't seem to be much interest them on the reason is revealed a lot of the war crimes committed on their obama and also embarrassed clinton in 2016. they blamed, sounds great extent for clinton, losing, and trump winning. and in addition, in the air of russia, gates, when the through the russian agent lay him, all the rules could be thrown out the window because your age at the russia and it's not a journalist. there wilson law don't apply, and it's a very dangerous place to be. so need to find a way of working this back in the media should really go back to listen, may go well, empire never, it says, sorry. patrick,

let's remind our viewers what the alleged crime, the julian, so much committed. he revealed the war crimes of great powers, particularly of the united states. that's why he's sitting in prison now. and that's why they want him, essentially to die in prison. because he told the truth about war crimes committed by western powers back in his, his queen's counselors during the crown court hearings. before the pandemic, they dismantled the, the u. s. case just day by day just tore it to pieces of fitzgerald and somers and they did it annually. and the argument from the u. s. side from the, the extradition side in the us had it hired guns there. there argue was, well that argument doesn't have standing because this is purely about extradition and not about whether the charges have any merit or anything like that. so that was

just kind of a pre, a preview of what you, you're going to see in a u. s. us national security court, but the main thing, the main part about all of this is in a democratic system. it does matter what happens outside the court room in terms of the public conversation. and the press would normally lead that the press would elevate the issue. people would rally around that again, due process, rule of law. all of that, it's been wiped away. that says little more about the state of democracy. in the democratic world, it's leading the rules based international order and in the rules based international order. you as the, the gold makes the rules or who has the most money makes the rules. but it's funny that when anthony blink and tried to pull the rules based card with china at that summit, alaska, china reminded anthony blinking who has the gold apparently, because they didn't show any respect to the u. s. is shenanigans at that summit,

but so it is very worrying because this is, that is a sunset moment for for democracy. and the assange case, it's just is a touchstone of, of that process here. what this is all about is they may never want another julian ever to happen again. 2020 seconds. go ahead. yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. and he is achieving incredible status amongst activists and people who really believe in the free press. and he's become a real icon to the question is, can more people rally around this issue? what, what will that, what would, what would take for that to happen? that's the big question is looming. and if it doesn't happen, what does that mean for democracy and constitutional forms of government going forward? plotted, they will if they get the flow and implement what i think our viewers are watching,

if he or next time, remember the ah, she want to hold simply real thing a little funny little girls. well, a little to go see me when you have a week when you have a meeting in the room, initial authentic premium go among the spells. i'm the one that i wish i was going to look at it for me and i'll start with you soon as you move in to when you finish the mental begin miss little thing going on. normally. financial young, moody illusion,

but you lose because you could shoot it to the lower. ah, the

ah, we will not allow the opponents of the revolution. mercenaries were sold out to the u. s. government to provoke destabilization, kubrick. he's in washington of inciting mass demonstrations across the country, taking the streets and protest economic crisis. what they are cooling, the government poor handling that because the pan demik also can reviving the spirits of nea segregated in europe. russia takes you shot it from saver code with vaccines. that is, a senior official tells europe to reject the jobs being offered by moscow. and also by shing and starvation will eclipse the devastation of the panoramic according to our spam, which says every single minute, 11 people are dying from hunger around the world. we get inside from the chat.