me the, we will not allow the opponents of the revolution. the mercenaries were sold out to the u. s. government to provoke destabilization. you've actually been washington of inciting mass demonstrations across the country and thousands have taken to the streets and protests at an economic crisis. and what they are calling the government for handling of the kobe pandemic. reviving the spirit of neo nazi segregation in europe. russia takes a shot at france over covert vaccines. that as a senior official tells europe to reject the jobs being offered by moscow and beijing. starvation will eclipse the devastation of the pandemic. this is according to anti poverty organization, oxygen which says every single minute 11 people die from hunger around the world. those are your headlines. i am gone for the day, but don't worry, my colleagues,

the incomparable softer taylor will be in and just under an hour to make sure that you have a full and fresh produce. this is ah, i hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things considered. peter, as well as the american foreign policy blob, struggles to come determine with washington the peak and ganesh than others are thinking about the future. how will this country interact with the world and the region also an update on juliana sarge? this travesty and crime against humanity continues. i

discussed these issues and more. i'm joined by my yes, but you came in and in plymouth. he's to enter, turn founder of 21st century wire dot com and, and also we have going diesel. and he is a professor at the university of southeastern norway as well as the author of the new book, re power politics in the 4th industrial revolution, or a gentleman, cross talk rules and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want. i always appreciate it. 3, ok, let's go to hospital 1st. glen, you know, american media is obsessed about the withdrawal of afghanistan. how it got to this point who's to blame. but very few people actually thinking about the future except for maybe the drifters that want to somehow profit from the post more environment having an aircraft outside the country prepared to leap in a net. if necessarily, i mean this is, these are the people that don't want this the end. however, a lot of things are happening and it's been and they're not getting a lot of coverage. just recently the taliban visited russia. the russians obviously

are very concerned. what's going to happen next because the we have the g because then in respect to span, ask and stands borders. and of course, the metaphor of saigon is on a lot of people's minds. i don't know if it's over rock, but people have to be prepared here because we have again, troops going across their border, leaving the country. that is obviously a security risk. so how is this going to be played out? because during the entire course of the history of cross thought, we have talked about how long this war has been going on here. and i've always said, and i hope i'm not wrong, the region has to take care of itself. and i think that's an opportunity. go ahead when no, i agree, and the us withdrawals very quickly. there's vacuum left behind. it is obviously the challenges for the neighbors because they're not going anywhere. and obviously as you mentioned yesterday is all of this, this,

this could very easily be stabilized ventilation in the military and more instability. and so i think i have not gotten government to read explaining to projects, but they can then build, having the renewal of the civil war. the ninety's could be quite problematic something and obviously most goes quite concerned about it. but again, there's also some opportunities i would say because the u. s. strategy and it's all the centralization was to large extent did the couple of the central nation read them from countries like russia and china. so this was with economic projects that everything was geared to in this direction now, and this was consistent with the u. s. u. k. history of your asia, which has been brought to divide by the major powers. so the news coming out from china and russian, but even iran to smaller extent is the failure of the us natal conditioning while it's chris on the challenges, it also opens up. so for today's military,

you're ation solutions. something that russia would support as well. this will then include most of the neighbors come from russia, china, iran, central asia, leaving india and the world integration of this great 3 ration region, which is a key project for the chinese russians to be complete without a car. and it's coming down through economic coming to the wheel here in the chinese is interested in to push this trillion dollar bump enrolled initiative on something investments talking about. and i was obviously would welcome. and there's also other years for corporation. i would also just lost the shanghai cooperation organization, which is now forming us the main, an organization to organize the race which has all the main status. so russia, china, india, the central ations and ideally, would also bring in iran later on as full members. not just observer,

and this could be of this institutional great mission. so again, this risks, but there's also for tunic, is to finally find the regional solution, which is them based on connecting these countries instead of flipping them. you know, it's very interesting because if you, if you look at and take seriously some of the issues that the taliban had talked about over the years, they don't have ambitions outside of the boarders about however, there's a very important caviar here in the us. do a back door continues to support the corrupt regime and war. they could change the, the facts on the ground because you're going to be that have government, you're using the other side of the border as a paid then you know, have the conflict spill because we have the taliban are going to continue their path. the power as it were, and you have these troops in going over the border. they may go and go after them,

which of course is the worst nightmare for the entire region. it seems to me it's still very and contingent in us is going to leave and i keep asking experts, what does that mean and what does the word finally leave me go ahead. yeah, there's a good question. what is leave mean? just look over to the situation in iraq, and you can see that even a us pull out could mean nato coming in or multinational force. and that's just moving the chess pieces around. because sensibly nato's controlled by the united states in the, in the u. k. effectively, in terms of the bulk of its forces and it's strategic direction. so for, i guess it's a big, it's a big problem. you know, is not an easy solution to it a no, there's never been an easy solution for western powers or, or even your asian powers and balancing the situation of gas down for centuries. so right back to alexander the great,

so running into the same similar situations in terms of geography. but you know, the u. s. grand strategy. generally, if you look at the arc of the strategy over the last couple of administrations, it's too slowly pull out their hard assets out of places in the middle east, and then rely on what they call local enforcers in order to prosecute western us or, or largely corporate policy direction. and so who is that local enforcer for afghanistan is certainly can't be the afghan government in cobol or the afghan army because they'll fold like deck chairs on the titanic. you know, so it's pakistan would be that local enforcer. but that hasn't worked because they pump billions of dollars into, to fight counter you know, for counterterrorism funding in pakistan arguably is all probably the people believe the i s i is partly responsible for

a lot of terrorist activity and extremism and gun running and all sorts sorts of things so that there's a huge amount of problems. i don't think there's an easy solution, but what happens in this situation where there is no easy solution as the opportunists will seize on business opportunities. afghans been a great money spinner for the military industrial complex, the global corporate transnational, corporate haven't been able to get us a stabled foothold. so in the meantime, just make money off of the military situation. the price of heroin globally has plummeted. so, you know, that does benefit certain people in, in the pharmaceutical industry as well as on the black market. and just generally the malays of cities around the world. so is this, the, this was going to be long term, low intensity conflict in and out again. another $911.00 type narrative could be plastered on afghanistan and then they would come in again, full throttle in 10 years. i mean,

so i don't think the prospects are great looking at it right now in terms of the long historical picture, particularly since 2001 needed. and i keep using my paper work here, it needs a grid. i mean, this is really why a lot of pockets for people are all very long time and, and saying that is something that's been worried, but maybe have martin millen that she had to be joined to stop. i mean, you basically crying and run a president biden, you know, what about children and women, you know, and all that. i mean here's, here's the guy that supposed to be in charge of the national security being said, worried about the nation building and knowing that we're worried about his buddies making a whole lot of money like a house or 2 decade game. glenn, one of the things is very interesting is that, go back to your 1st stanza here. this is the real opportunity for russia and china . and then again, player such as pakistan is pointed out here. but i mean if,

if there is a, if there is a solid consent of these large powers outside about and a span, i think that gives reason the hope here because they all see that the, the back of the matter is the us. it respected, but we have that get if that doesn't really affect, you know, i would say what happens when i get to spend affects the region greatly. and these, these are real stakeholders here. i mean, what could be a 1st step here because the russians have been very open to being a fair broker. they have, but they have invited and talk to the television even though they have been in rushes in a terrorist organization. when they're going the extra mile here, what, how is this going to affect the internal affairs of, of come who, because the russia can't be, again, are and more of the government in control because it doesn't have the, the, the strength and the support in the country go ahead. no, well, obviously the vacuum will be filled by some states. i mentioned that i cannot make,

which were china, the main actor about the security field. obviously, ross, it's a key security provider, but what i was referred to then was the instability among those based on and then especially tajikistan. and they will need to rely on the c s d, which is the regional, the russian lead military alliance. so, and this will create a greater demand for when you secured the institutions to feel the vacuum. but the difference from suggesting that to absorb assessment would be something because there is simply no, no chance at all that most would ever accept putting in a more what's on the ground in afghanistan. and neither should i think it less, over the past 20 years, has been that the piece was to fall in place of control. now, we'll have to, so obviously more school good prefer power sharing government in come all rather than simply tell them i'm taking over. however, if, thanks over russia, it's not going to stand in this way and dictates what a new government should look like. simply gonna have to make it in place for the

best possible governments come into play. and once the government is in place, use the magic tools to help but also the economic offers of corporation and simply begin to integrate this, this country into the ration region. so there's some problems about the issue of assertion, undermine the huge challenges and risk, especially this are still logged into a huge massive civil war. and now it's very like, got to give across the borders given the last minute to you, patrick, here as the, as the foreign policy blog watches this unfold. have they learned any lessons from the last 20 years? go ahead. 40 seconds. i don't. i think it's worse for the you go, the younger these people are getting, you know, people like j sullivan running. the white house is foreign policy. port leon, he's what 40 years old. what is, what is he know?

the main problem in afghan stands always going to be, we're trying to impose a western style democracy on was effectively in areas it's been governed by tribal forms of government and tribal politics. and until they can bridge that gap and do that in a, in a good way for both sides, then i think you're going to have this constant friction. yeah, i think that i think the us and western power should stop helping dennis. then it might turn out better, will say, are you gentlemen that jump in here? we're going to go to a short break and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real stay with the me. the news. the road is driven by a dreamer shaped by those with the in

me there's thing we dare to ask me. ah, oh, welcome back to cross talk. we're all things considered peter le bell. this is the home edition. to remind you, we're discussing some real news. i okay, let's change gears gentlemen. let's talk about the tragic fate of julian silence over the last week or so. we've seen the b o. j a case against filling a sized co, completely collapsed. i mean, it is this,

it is floating in mid air gentlemen. okay, though it, it hasn't changed the position of the game, the u. s. government to try again to expedite. jolina didn't say their case against them was he hacked. he was a hacker this time, this was what made different from the, in the previous administration. this is the, there was an informant in iceland, a gentleman that had known criminal history was committing crimes. while he was working with the it is unclear. he was compensated mail. i'm on a terribly but he, there's obviously he was the key to they, the prosecution persecution of julian assigned. and so, and then on top of it, the element of desperation is seeping in the terms and conditions of his detainment in the united states where he might serve his term if convicted badly. this smells of desperation. the case, the case is collapsed. ok. and now they're trying to look for

a way out to save face instead of just dropping this ridiculous bear in the 1st place. go ahead. no, you're right. it's all about. it's all about saving face. i don't think they can save face in the long run. this is just the machine doing what the machine does. you know the amazing that the federal government would, would pay a convicted felon to fabricate evidence for a federal case. and then, you know, and this should cause it to collapse. i mean the, but it's not because they're there on a mission. and the mission is it's about shutting down parts of the internet globally. this is already being done via silicon valley, but there's some loose ends to tie up independent portals. free press, stopping any real leaks from happening. that's really what we helix represents. so they're so far down the road with julia signed with this. the sham of a process. it's always been the case of the missing case. ok. and now it's kind of obvious, but we're,

we're so far down the road and now they're making promises that we're gonna move it to austria. you'll be moved to australia and things like this. and there's all sorts of other caveats that are put in. and it's quite clear that this is all an abrogation of due process because you know, you talk about these things. oh, speaking like he had already been convicted basically. so there isn't that that should give you the signal. that's the dog whistle from washington, that he will, he will be extradited, he will be convicted. and then what they do after that in terms of shuffling him around, is anyone's guess. so i don't believe any guarantees made by the d o j because they can't even keep an international treaty like, you know, the jcp or have that they work 2 years on the don't think that the keep any promises before the fact of what they're going to do to, julia signed, so there's never been a case and, but unfortunately, i've sat through that trial in london for

a week and it's just unbelievable how corrupt the system is geared against him. they have him locked down. they'd like to drag this out forever. and i'm sad to say they'd be happy if he didn't make it out of prison. that would just make things a lot easier for them. that's just him. i mean, that's the strategy obviously, you know, going also, you know, the d o j has egged on the face because it was actually recognize the, the ruling of the very peculiar judge in the u. k. kneeling with this case here. and that ability massage work to be expedited. his faith in the, the american legal system in the prison system would be in question. and i think that it's obvious to anyone. but the, you know, to, to patrick's point here is that this is just to drag it out. i mean, this could, i mean, even if he were expedited, i mean the, the case itself could take a decade. it could take that long and considering the way the o j, at least previously his previous case is that even join us sanchez,

lawyers wouldn't be able to see the evidence against him. a jury is up in the air, a judge. we determine what that is is valid. i mean, this is just a, i mean, calling it a tank record is insulting, can rooms. i mean, what kind of process is that? i mean, we are doing this on should have no fade. i mean, they certainly have no paid british legal for them. jumping bail. oh my goodness, and being in superman like that. so, i mean, it is an atrocity all the way around and you know, what the biggest atrocity is, is that we're one of the only programs talking about this. there's nothing in the mainstream in the us about this. so i mean, this is this, this is a nuge conspiracy of silence when the crime being committed in broad daylight. all this was recognized in early nineties that a paradox of having essentially

a liberal empire that it will start to tear away at the domestic system. and again, this before comes an interesting or unique form of arthur and isms as correct to point out to demonstrates how the rules law is being corrupted. so in a society based on the rule of law, the focus is on the integrity of the process and not the outcome, even though the outcome of august would have been decided. but what we see here is that that decision is a little been made to destroy us on which lake males have demonstrated that the legal process is affecting the weapons. but if they don't even need really conviction old and needed to drive on the court proceedings for eternity, and therefore just keeping the prison and again, it's important to us to walk back because it's eating away the principles and credibility of their legal system. keep in mind that this is the journalist, they arrested the you and demanded they should be released. the court, you court said denied extradition in january, and that's the point that correctly he witnessed read that there was admitted to

advocate and accusations against the function yet now they're going to let's give the u. k, u s. government permission to appeal this is simply because to making all that assurances which one let's build, it's not going to be really worth that much. and you know, even if you will be transferred after a while to say, doesn't get jeffrey in treatment in jail or he will even be allowed to go to australia even if, if they will take over the years and years. and they're correct. the media does not seem to care about this. if this was one of america, the other there is gentlemen, there will be sanctions, the media would not stop right about it. but some of the non issues and we're, where's the media? this is quite extraordinary. and no interest at all. really. this is quite amazing . yeah, i mean, glad i had you on recently we, when you were tried to explain to me with your great intellect, with my mind or intellect, trying to explain to me what rules based order is. how does the julian

a sorry case fit in with the rules based order that we have secretary said lincoln did his, you know, rules based order tour. and then back i did was in the u. k. what is the journalist day when, when jolena found you in prison? so what are the rules based order? when it comes to the fate of julian a so much in the faith of journalism which is basically faded away, go ahead. i mean, what i'm getting at it says rank apostrophe continue. go ahead one. no, i agree. and again, this is where international law and the rules based on obviously the verge because the rules based order gifts for the special privileges based on the so called the liberal complication. so it becomes a huge paradox at the end. but again, this thing was the reason why the media doesn't care because they did, they did like a founder previously when he revealed the bush crimes. then he was a special on the left. he was a bit of a hero. we were in the trump era,

they then began to lend themselves very much against, but honestly, they were very much pro journalism and freedom journalism every time from tweets about cnn. they were very much concerned about that title journalism, but this actually actual journalists to go to jail. that doesn't seem to be much interest them. the reason is revealed a lot of the war crimes committed on their obama and also the embarrass clinton in 2016. they blamed funds to great extent for clinton losing and trump winning. and in addition, in the era of russia gates, when that through the russian agent laid him, all the rules could be thrown out the window. because now you're agent the russia and it's not a journalist. there. wilson law don't apply and it's a dangerous place to be. so need to find a way of walking this back in the media should really go back there. a mega. yeah, well, empire never said, sorry. patrick, let's remind our viewers what the alleged crime, the doing, astonish,

committed. he revealed the war crimes of great powers, particularly of the united states. that's why he's sitting in prison now. and that's why they want him, essentially to die in prison because he told the truth about war crimes committed by western powers. bad. yeah. in his, his, queen's counselors during the crown court hearings before the pandemic, they dismantled the, the u. s. case just day by day just tore it to pieces of fitzgerald and summers, and they did it annually. and the argument from the u. s. side from the, the extradition side in the u. s. had hired guns there, there argue was, well that argument doesn't have standing because this is curly about extradition and not about whether the charges have any merit or anything like that. so that was just kind of a pre, a preview of what you, you're going to see in

a u. s. us national security court. but the main thing, the main part about all of this is in a democratic system. it does matter what happens outside the courtroom. in terms of the public conversation and the press would normally lead that the press would elevate the issue. people would rally around that. again, due process, rule of law. all of that has been wiped away. that says little more about the state of democracy. in the democratic world, it's leading the rules based international order and in the rules based international order. you has the, the gold makes the rules or he has the most money makes the rules. but it's funny that when anthony lincoln tried to pull the rules based card with china at that summit, alaska, china reminded anthony blinking, who has the gold, apparently, because they didn't show any respect to the u. s. is shenanigans summit. but

so it is very worrying because this is, that is a sunset moment for, for democracy. and the assange case, it's just is a touchstone of, of that process here. what this is all about is they may never want another julian ever to happen again. 2020 seconds go ahead. yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. and he is achieving incredible status amongst activists and people who really believe in the free press and he's become a real icon is the question is, can more people rally around this issue? what, what will that, what would, what would take for that to happen? that's the big question is looming, and if it doesn't happen, what does that mean for democracy and constitutional forms of government going forward? lot it's they want to think might get enough low and, and i want to think be worth watching as here. are the next time. remember

the ah, i use ah me. she was all simply real thing a little slow, letting them go by susan. well, the oh, come a little to go see me when you have a week when you have

a meeting in the room initial, authentic steamy and the spelled on the one, let me know which company else was going to look at. 2 me and i'll start with you soon. this is just looking here. when you mentioned that kim illusion actually don't thing. and then on the, on the financial young hoody illusion. but you lose could put it in, you could shoot it to the lower the the the you don't do it, you know,

it didn't put one way in to live in the home and i'm not gonna put you down there for that. i'll use enough for the only i get it to him. oh we see that. i think i'm gonna put you on the list for the user level just for new megan, that is the most senior. so from having to go back to your conference with you just gotta show you boys quick. thank cornered out there, he can inform uniforms as you know, i don't think you're a member dog by cedar tissue and just really was limited to.