of course, there is a certain limitations of our current democratic party because system as well as capitalism itself. we are we operating market mechanism and everything is based on market mechanism. like a mechanism, by definition. it is depending on the supply, on demand, over a short term. it does not function on long term like a 30 years later, we cannot imagine what kind of market there will be after 30 years. there's no way we can do it is against issue and interesting. so there is intrinsic the limitations on marketing mechanism yourself in dealing with the long term challenges and also intrinsic limitations on political system. as you say, for years 5 years in the office, they are very eager to deliver something for a special and show communism. so we have a strong within extreme shelton museum versus long tongue gore's. we up to you. so there's a clear gap, and we are not talking about,

i want to ask you about the strategy. and i see that the distinction in that strategy in comparing the russian in the american approach, for example, because the russians, it's more about cleaning the immediate mass around you, cutting down emissions, waste management, energy efficiency, etc. putting your own house in order for denmark and it's more about global implications of their policy. and i think more abstract goals. this is ultimately about the choice strategy. do you start with your immediate environment or do we all a for a planetary change from get go? what's your take on that? what do you think will be more efficient? very interesting question. yes. oh, i appreciate the recent present ro, biden's leadership for net 010 to 15. richie has revive the sort of momentum to drive the global actions for climate change. it is very laudable,

and i welcome you so much. but as your question regarding your customer, global, kind of dry board local actions, i think we cannot distinguish the differentiator, the 2. yes, to go hand in hand. we have to have a global target strip 1st. and then we have to come down to a local election. we have to translate that girl by gore means one for each country . so that kind of exercise has to be done because i worked in the u. n as well, but have some kind of frustration there. i don't think you any, it's capable of delivering that kind of a scheme to each country. actually it is a left to, to each government to decide on their own commitment. it has to be bottom off rather down because the top down approach has been actually tact is well preached, at least for the allies in the history of climate negotiation. the top down

approach has failed. the parish climate agreement adopt in 2015 symbolizes the fact that we gave up the top down. it is n d c nationally to come in. the contribution contribution means it's a balloon contribution. so over n d c means bottom up. so we don't have any kind of pub gown, globe, or system to impose on each country. so we all pull totally depend on each country, is a good, we'll just leaving it to the voluntary commitment. now you've been complimentary of the job by them of the, by the ministrations initiatives on climate change. and indeed they have been driving this effort internationally. but there are some experts in russia who, i, suspecting that this new interest in the environment on the part of americans is just a pretext for wave of globalization. and for

a sort of upgrade of capitalism without challenging the basic premise, which is an ever increasing consumption which led to the degradation of the planet in the 1st place. in that a credible concern that instead of protecting meaning, fully protecting the environment, we will just witness another way with a very good question and a very good consent and but i think it's better to take a constructive interpretation of the mr. president, job items intention, because of course anybody can have that kind of console and suspicion, but we are on the actor beginning early stage, your engaging in real actions full see with emission reduction. in fact, we don't know much about how to do it. even the european union, or even united states, you know, the union did something very on in earnest,

didn't go to seriously, but the case, i mean, my state, i don't think there was any real honest actions on emission reduction because they don't talk about at all about consumption reduction, it is only about production reduction. so there are a lot to be done. so because these kinds of issues are not covered by the pledge of a prism by and that's why some people have that kind of a concern. but it is not because all of us on kind of a conspiracy, but i think it's because we are only at the beginning stage of engaging in real action that mr. to learn from each other. mr. turn. it's not about the conspiracy thinking if we have had the last he 100 years of capitalism and i think we can draw certain inference inferences from the way to operate. and if again, we put all the emphasis,

although responsibility on producers without taking meaningful action to reduce consumption. and i think you would agree that in the developed world, people are consuming far beyond the basic means. in fact, far beyond that is that's healthy for them. the take the initiative damage take the waste management problem it's, it's clear that this consumption has run the way, way too far. and in the current discussions about this issue, the consumption aspect, as you pointed out, is not being voiced at all. this really isn't that something that is a little bit suspicious. it's not because of it. there's a certain kind of a conspiracy behind it by rather it is because the basic intrinsic dynamism of capitalism yourself is based on consumption. and if you reduce consumption, they have a scan here that g d, p will go down economy to go down. this is the kind of scare. so this is why

everybody is scared about talking about reducing consumption. at the same time they are so scared of climate change so that you she's can, you reduces your emission or taking kind of climate change while we are not failing the dynamism over typically in other way of putting it. can you have a cake and easy to just, you know, get, does it, how, how does that applied to that? so that is the, what i'm saying is, that's why you saw difficult. so you're not talking about dealing with their consumption and asking people to drive a small car. for example, like asking or americans stop driving big huge s u v 's and go and move on to public transportation. dust saw difficult challenge to demand the people and the consumers are on the word. that's why the political leaders are not a scare das gear. that cannot, they are to say,

nor politicians in the or underworld who can even they are to say to, to people, oh, we have to reduce the consumption. this is why. so far the consumption issue did not was not taken out very seriously. so but it's a very serious issue. so we cannot address the climate change issue unless the people are on the word realize that we cannot continue our over consumption as we are doing now with mr. chung, it's not, let's not talk about people around the world because in some parts of the world, people don't have access to still don't have access to clean water to proper food to even, you know, dirty electricity or dirty energy. i mean, there are many children around the world who don't enjoy the luxury of an electron bulb. it's rather i think about the much smaller proportion of this planet, a well off proportion of the pool for some reason right now, things that if they can drive an electric car that will solve the issue. but from

what you're saying, it's not about driving an electric hybrid car versus a diesel car. it's about 5 bigger sacrifice or something yet is very good point. i will is saying that the best, the solution for transportation mobility is electrical. actually it is walking, walk in to him, better for your house as well. i call the bmw w metro walking to be in or know car is better that electric car. so even the electricity is coming from a core file to pop lens. so that's not a solution, so we have to be very clear that we cannot only focus on production side. or we have to think about consumption side. for example, i will tell you one story, u k. for example. they say that we see from the data data reduced the emission 40 percent duty last 30 years, and the economy has grown a lot. but when you, well,

this is based on the consumption or the production side. because the british has a relocated and a lot of industrial sector overseas, and they shifted to a service economy receiving the good pleasure or do most of their consumption from overseas. so when you calculate the consumption bases to see your technician, you've never changed their having the same, enduring the same level over time. you some particular since 1990 and 2020, even during the 30 years, there's no change. it's almost same level, but it's better than some other country because in some of the country that's going on. so they just take an idea the so, but we are not looking at. we are still not looking at issues. for example, many countries are criticizing china for increasing their mission. but in fair china is exploiting a lot to the united states and europe and union, and that those people are using the mission from china and then blame china's get

the older boy for making those people to enjoy the expand. it's not only china, but also much of asia after that. those goods that consume, they're also receiving be the, the, the, the waste and the, the garbage and everything else. wasting a lot of energy on transporting the garbage from. the developed parts of the world to the developing one decision. we have to take a very short break right now, but we will do back in just a few moments. stay tuned me or have got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy for an taishan, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. development only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical time. time to sit down and talk

rather driven by dreamers shaped by those in me who dares thing we dare to ask me. ah, you don't do it. you know it nice number didn't but you want to get it done because you don't. i don't gonna don't go

down the phone that i'll use enough 40 on it and then i get, it looks like i mean it was that i think we're pretty on the find the market of it to sort of it just took a look through the winter really middle school with those who knew that to prolong the plenty puzzled individuals give us a peculiar use a drug still did as a way to come back. a great problem. what's the one, it's part of the attitude of not just the north dakota and it got to be something

that you could get elected. this time, the fight against drugs took a check. he told us that there was a competence short form. this is way too dangerous for him to be doing. clearly they put him in harm's way. a rural college student does interest get shot in the head and found in a river like that something else had to be happening with the me or i welcome back to worlds apart for the right one child principal, advisor and climate change to the un secretary general with the trunk before the break we had this, there is still the discussion about consumption and i want to ask you about one more aspect of this whole question of c o. 2

emissions, which is important for the countries with large for some talking about rush. i'm talking about brazil, some extent canada maybe even the united states because see what you can not only be emitted, it could all also be absorbed. and this is one of the sticking points. and then you go stations are right now, whether the absorption capacity should be taken into account. and one of the arguments that i'm hearing here in russia, that it could not only be good for the economy, but it's also a way of protecting those land masses. because if there is a way, if there's any economic benefit in keeping those for us, in fact, it would be easier to protect them. oil, of course, there is a certain met, the methodological calculation already done is recognized. so in the calculation of shortcomings from each country, we have a certain rulers, this already agrees on the buy. what ip is he?

is he into a propeller on climate change? so is there. so a country like russia can invest in reforestation or forest ration, then you can be while positive about the russia as a calculation of short a mission. this whole issue involves a lot of calculations, a lot of statistics. and as you said before, they break with the british example, statistics can sometimes be very misleading on the figures that we side. they often reflect not the actual state of affairs, but rather the vested interest. speaker, how to star and how straightforward is our numerical thinking about those things. you know, the bigger is the volumes that are being side and you know, as you may receive a short term problems of how we look at we're analyzing the issue. so certainly the code on statistical information is we get needs to be improved and just too much

based on production site. but we have the doors will see the product consumption side. and regarding the 43 show europe and you know, using against accounting and, but we are having some issues about the scope, how much can be accounted for it. so there's a show of the school rather than coming to or not. so there's some recognition for you, but for me i think i know the history of i've since i've been engage in 99 twan, we have all the so many times about the very ambitious, nice looking targets in 1992. we agree either to reduce your technician 522000 at the level of a 99 to level by the develop the country. you've seen the commission, but 20 years already passed, but it was all need. the european union will cross toys, but nobody out nor wanted water. and after that, we agreed to go to protocol to reduce

a 6 percent 70 percent or something like that. but we didn't care about it. so we had the history of repeatedly failing on target step for emissions scores so that she's not a matter of setting the gore just a matter of how we can actually take actions and practice in practice rather than trans your quote. she is. i thing we have to put the price on carbon us. we have softball, very much failed on putting a price on cobble as a market economy is functioning, result giving the property the price on cobble very mr. chung then the question is, how fair it really easy because i'm in a people in, in the developed world, a very disdainful of carbon and fossil fuels. but as far as i remember, there are more than 800000000 people around the world who don't have access secure

access to any energy sources. and if the european union, for example, introduces this common carbon tax, which you have been supportive of, that will cut off many poor countries, all the luxury, luxury markets would that disadvantage the part of the planet that is already in not getting and now there is a kind of a, to me, is a kind of a view about issue. if we take a more dynamic view of the pollution of international trade and all these things, the, even the developing country can take time to improve their manufacturing methodology so that they can improve tissues. why? even in the climate newish ations globe, our partnership has been very much emphasized. and as you know, a global partnership is always emphasized. and i know you said before that it's

absolutely crucial for the development of the green growth agenda. but as we have just witnessed with the comb, with 19 pandemic, everybody called for equitable access to vaccines. but when pushed to seem to show the show, it was everybody is out for themselves. can he actually, i mean, we all strive and dream about global partnership, but realistically, based on what we just witnessed on with the last year and a half. kennedy realistically count on the countries not being selfish. yeah, that is a very difficult question. actually. we have been talking of, as you say, the globe are for a long time, but as we witness in the case of vaccine, so everybody running for their own life. so everybody for themselves, you know, but nevertheless, i think we're to take a more constructive view and we have to and i would like to emphasize that the roar and the leadership of a rich countries be so critical because we cannot ask of developing countries,

the poor countries are sacrifice to any father because as you say, they already have being sober, a problem. so we cannot put more burden on them. this is why the law role of the leadership of the reach country is much more critical and they have to take a leadership. otherwise there's no hope. do you think they will take a leadership given that if they reach countries right now that are holding many times more vaccines than they need without sharing it with countries for. and i mean, even if they're holding vaccines, which are absolutely crucial for life. do you think they will not hoard the energy? when the for example, we all transition to, let's say, you know, renewable energy generation. my, my interpretation is ones from the rich country get, they are a mini mom, quantity of vaccine, secure the,

for their own consumption. then they can be ordered, be more flexible to be corporate. mr. john, come on, for example, now has 6 times more than it needs for the entire population, the european union, i think 2 times more than they need for everybody. i mean, they have contract is 2 times more, i think the united states 4 times more than they need for the entire population, but they keep contracting and using that trade leverage to secure for themselves. and by doing the disadvantages and much poor countries. by the way, africa has to pay for the vaccines much more than the united states or western europe. if we use that experience and apply that to energy, do you have confidence that again, if we agree on being fair to one another data for me, the case of a renewable energy and energy transformation can be a little different directions case because because of transforming to our new

energy system is going to be a kind of a new opportunity for industrial revolution and in the future, industrial competitiveness. this is the, in the own interest, self interest. this is why i think we could be be more optimistic that organized a issue of union and rich countries can push forward because they see that d. c, the future. otherwise have you fall behind. so like electric battery and all use electric, car, hydrogen technology. so they are rushing very fiercely to be in the forefront rather than falling behind. so did there's something kind of a coincidence of the industrial interest where the climate change interest. so i think that is a kind of a more optimistic now, i think you mentioned the nature of electric cars that i actually want to talk to you about. because the production of those batteries requires

a lot of rare earth materials, which i'm lined in a very dirty wave as lots of environmental and health risks. the recycling is not the clear cut process. is mariana g intensive. it's very complicated. i don't think it's even fully worked out yet. at this point of time. how would we are at understanding all the extra analogies to all the potentiality is good and bad of these green growth agenda? because as you know, progress always goes hand in hand with degradation and band of the day. all of our current problems are the result of our efforts to improve our live. i'd rather take more more for the looking and the more well, there's one boys always forward looking, but don't look back. well of course any transformation has ever been perfect. whenever, for example, the 1st industrial revolution, the core power, the local motives, a lot of pollution. so nothing has been perfect from the beginning. yes,

there is some kind of environment, a problem for electric batteries, a whole leasing. but my point is, my perspective is we will do learning by doing so as we focus more on the transformation, we will come up with the are not technological innovations to address those issues . so now we are only at, but early stage of transforming our system. this is why there's a lot of issues, but do take time, but in the long run, you push it consistently for long term. then those issues came to address. this is a micro optimism about it. so this is why we have to work together. i don't think one country can sort of all the problems. well mr. chang has been great pleasure talking to thank you very much for your time. and thank you for watching hope to hear again next week. well, depart from me

the me the. ready ready watch crunch class to push me off in the city with the culture blue book. truly i just don't want to void the because it's always more you to meet the he's going to repeat usually through which practice and gone. yeah. cuz really new bushel. the reason the

longer that she's in the car is not a monumental touch up on top driven by a dreamer shaped by those with me in me dares thing. we dare to ask me showing me as

a 1st aid on the alex salmon show and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politics sport business. i'm show business. i'll see you then me the media a reflection of reality in a world transformed what will make you feel safer. type relation, community you going the right way? where are you being somewhere? which direction? what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted, you need to this end. so join us in the depths will remain in the shallows. ah

ah, no, you don't do it. you know it, uncle? nice number nobody. when we get home and don't don't go down the food that i'll use in a 40 on looks it up on the i guess it looks like are you familiar with that? i think we're pretty much finding out if i use the most of it on the front of it to get back to your home, we can just go to the middle, who was nice with those who knew

all along the plenty puzzled initials give us a peculiar the europe struggles to deal with the awesome all the devastating floods that will have at least $170.00 people dead off in germany. and other than that, the glass states of emotion over atlanta sicilian regional. but it's really a poverty crisis already warned. changing seasons will be even more challenging for local community to return to russian and people in south africa for security, for essentially us off the hundreds of shops looted and writers go on the rampage on the ground up next for us. us aids on conduct. if you want to me some of the record reports coming up in just a few moments time.