week, how predictable it is for us president to go on the recordings about forces trying to overthrow the cuban government. having to joe biden was the mayor of miami, who appeared to advocate us coalition air strikes against the island, famous for being the flash point that nearly led to the end of the world. someone who knows about nature nation interference in the so called backyard is professor diego on the condo advisor to the incumbent bolivian president luis house. he joins me from london. diego, thanks so much for coming on. your 1st the reaction to this, why you're in london. so you can see that coverage, some of it bizarrely from miami, present the children of, of those opposed to the cuban revolution. what was your reaction? it wasn't long ago, they were saying because during coal with the food security, there's 5000 that doctors cuba is sending to 40 countries. and now suddenly cube has finished the revolutions over thank you for having me. first of all, yes, good to be here in london. where yes,

i can see the coverage of international news has shifted. i think it's a bit different from what it was a few years ago. and i think sometimes there's are enough perspectives from the south, especially latin america, and in terms of cuba. so historic change that's happening. bolivia, brazil, chile, i have all looked up to cuba in many ways as a leader of the revolution. and none of the events and phenomena, movements, and in america that are occurring now would have happened without the leadership of cuba historically. so we are very anxious to see what is going to happen in cuba. i think there's the bar was the major or the major reason for the crisis and historically in the last few decades. but i think we also have to admit that the human economic model has failed to, as soon as it extend to for some people in and inside cuba. and we have to be a little bit so critical as well. and maybe to see what other pathways are to get

out of that more asked, in a sense, i think what's happening in south america on the last will be possible avenue for change and improvement in cuba as well. because we cannot transition towards, for example, green energy there are, they're happening and chill in bolivia, argentina, in terms of lithium, for example here. what i actually weighed, i'll get to lithium in a 2nd. but you mentioned those other countries. and of course, you're referring to to us in bolivia, maybe the return of lula in bolivia, in brazil, the latin american superpower in next year. you don't think washington is looking at that very closely. the fact that this so called return to the pink tide is going to help cuba let alone all those countries and washington has to exert something more muscular to use a terrible germ about lib liberal intervention. i mean, you hear that miami may are saying as strikes and needed like yugoslavia thought,

inconceivable. i mean, we know that this has happened in many countries in venezuela recently. i think it's possible there might be more muscular intervention. there was also for the case of the mercenaries in haiti recently and, and also in bolivia last year with some of that was covered just recently by the intercept. so as told and that's not impossible. and i think that us is really making mistaking and still again, hard line stance towards a lot of these progressive governments and america, by insisting on the language of discourse, human rights, et cetera, when in fact some of what's happening in the american now is really not the violation of human rights, it's actually progressive movements and ideas that ought to be given the respect they deserve. sovereign countries. so definitely the us taking no, of course, trumpeting instruction was it was worse, but i think even with biting, we see again, it's going to moralizing view that in the end hearse,

both sides most latin america. and i think in the long heard us american interests as well echoed in the so called mainstream media, or are they chastened by the fact they fail to overthrow the venezuelan government? i mean, one guy do is been to london in downing street with boris johnson bar. johnson is explicit that he wants the overthrow of the current venezuelan government. yes, again, this is something that even in the u. s. i would say 1st of all, they us tend to ignore latin america and, and that's some big mistake. obviously there's the immigration test will be the major reason why we talk about a lot in america and in the u. s. and there's a lack of economic integration, cultural integration. the whole idea of the us is exceptional and different. i think that's, that's a major blog, the thinking of some understanding of americans when inside the u. s. has a lot of commonalities with latin america as opposed to legal society with racial

divisions and diversity in the presidential system. so all these similarities ought to be emphasized as opposed to being minimized and. and so that does trace the risk . and this is reflected in foreign policy, i think the u. s. has to take a much more self reflective perspective and to change its position, but definitely via sort of more muslims progression is always on the table when it comes to american foreign policy. so we have to be very aware of that. and i think the only way that i can stop is by pressuring from outside and from within a thanks to people like bernie sanders and others who are more progressive might be able to persuade president body to take the road. but what, i'm sure, you know, i'm not sure how often they, they meet in fan is, i mean, you're an expert on lithium. what do you say to the bolivian president incumbent luis us about lithium? i mean, you heard a lot musk,

a pioneer of electric cars powered on lithium. we all carry lithium in our mobile phones. in almost said we will, qu, whoever we won, no evidence that he was behind the jenny in the us bag. who would, i mean, how, how do you advise louise us to run bolivia in the face of one of the riches people are not saying we can qu, he won't. so that was a very controversial estate, i think ultimately does mainly self promotion for only moscow. just to get and get into news, there's something provocative. there hasn't been anything directly involved in linking him to the cool. but this kind of off the cuff cowboys, kind of the statement i think is real dangerous because that has created a lot of animosity in bolivia towards the u. s. and towards american companies. i think it's possible to repair that damage if you have an alternative kind of minerva, interpreter leadership within the us who are going to respect bolivia laws and the

bullying people and come to work with bolivia as partners. and so one thing i advise the lease says that he can, he should work with anybody. it could be china, russia, the u. k. in the us. but they have to respect the laws and the people of bolivia that's, that's a 1st thing. and they have to have some idea of war believe what's the history of the, what's the move or the indigenous community order. they were there like you can just come in and take the lithium. so i think lease is very much open to working with anybody as long as they respect the fact that it's a national national resources it's, it's not going to be privatized. but companies can come in and work to help extract the lithium and commercialize it until it in the best way that will help bolivia minimized law for her team, but also improve its position geopolitically. and it's such a big resource resource and believe, you know, just so you need a beautiful lake and una, which should be protected, of course, for environmental tourism reasons, but it's extremely large. and so it's kind of

a win win situation for the world. you know, below the whole world is for sure to green energy, and bolivia is key that crucial elements in, in this transition. so it has to be done in a way, the respect the sovereignty of bolivia. and if i can, i'll be privatized past efforts. additional gas and water in bolivia which lead to basically the rise of mono more or less american and oil. just have to learn from that and avoid stop going to be insisting on that. so i think it's possible to do that, i think with lusan. so we have a more pragmatic technocratic approach to politics over the left. and i think again, negotiation with technocratic usually rings on alarm bells in latin america. we can see what happened to ecuador, but i mean, even in the past few days, nescafe is reportedly worried about your new state owned coffee initiatives. the european union did not back morale as is allegations that there will be in the u. s

. back coo. and now it's condemning the detention of this alleged d. c. washington proxy. janine on. yes. i mean, i'm the catholic church as well. i think is condemning it. why do you not tell the president no country with resources that internationally desired in the global south last long? well, i mean, we were hoping that that's not always going to be the case. now we can, we can be for the listing. i think we have to think that maybe this of the one time they're going to change history. of course, historically, right. this has happened all over the world from iran to cuba to julia sarah. but i think we're to be optimistic. i think we have to be talking craddick man who started work has meant privatization means more, more free markets. but the way that resizes approaching it is that, yes, we can be, have socialist countries, navigate in

a world of capital markets to its own benefit. and perhaps from their most blogs in which i can cooperate and acquire more sovereignty and to be able to deal with major countries are much more equal playing field. how prepared is government for the onslaught of so called mainstream media nato nations attacks on maybe you personally met alone, the president, let alone the currency, let alone, perhaps us back to a nato back terrorism, which we've seen in latin america over the decades. and this is especially worried about what happened last year with the mercenaries coming from the us. and that was stopped. and this is something that came out last year was recently we were reported by the intercept on the guardian, etc. but this can happen at any moment. it's again, we need all allies within the u. s. within america to help us communicate better. i think it's the risk that we have to take, but there,

do we have such resources like lithium, for example, that can be transformative for, for bolivia. and it has to be managed in a way that will provide health and education for everybody and should not be for a benefit, for particular regional bolivia. it has to be for everybody. so i think it's, it's a difficult process or this whole task, but we have to be optimistic. there's another alternative and i think again, funding partners from anywhere in the world. but insisting that we have to be equal partners who cannot be simply giving away the resources and the media in the us basically, we were non existent, like in america space or non existence of america, especially especially mainstream media. so i doubt that's going to change. so it's really important to have alternative sources of information. and so that's something that we need to keep building. and to again explain what is the bully model. socialism is it's a different model from different from, from the previous cases, from it as well. it's not like

a successful model during the period girls or at least 5 percent every year. it's a reduction of poverty by more than 30 percent. so it's not the kind of popular socialism that we've seen before and many other countries. and i think it can be a sort of crushed on for the rest of the left when movements in america that we are seeing now the result of the constituents, the nuclear station. in for chile, the protests in columbia, i think they are taking a cue from bolivia. they're learning from the national model, bolivia. it's a new model that people should know about. and it's something that can benefit again, many, many sectors of society. and it's not just for one, industry, etc. so i think we have to do a good job in transitioning from gas to deliver them. so that's a general strategy i'm thinking to advise president are so on what kind of thank you. thank you very much player. after the break from sanctions to was to

climate change, we ask the chief economists of the us food and agriculture organization. if the goal of ending world hunger by 2013 as possible at all in the face of us, germany, all the small coming up and bought 2 of going undergrad. ah, me the

join me every thursday on the alex simon show. and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politics sport, business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. me the welcome back. in part one, we looked at the effect of us sanctions joining a global pandemic on cuba and latin america. well, today a report is published by the un on the state of food security in nutrition in the world. but is there any chance of achieving the goal of eliminating world hunger by 2030 in the face of us sanctions and was in the extractive nature of global capital . joining me now from room is the chief economist of you and food and agriculture organization. maximo terreros,

who co authored the report. thank you so much. maxima for coming on here in london were treated to pictures one so called mainstream media. richard branson, billionaires going to space. the u. s. fed says the american households at 13 trillion to their savings, the u. k resolution foundation, say 7800 pounds richer. the house owners go here in london, your report. 800000000 not being able to feed themselves. yeah. is that i think the 1000000 people more than in 2019 are growing and the nurse so iteration is hugely challenging. but that doesn't mean that we don't have a break. and that's what we try to re think is report. report is trying to bring up that big numbers and especially on trying to show. busy the big asian of the drivers which are normally climate, complicated, low down, and down terms of 19 how that has put the situation in one of the highest spike in

the last 2 decades of, of increase of clinic and nourishment in the world. exactly. there are recommendations, it's not just oh, they're all these people that would be more impoverished by corona virus. would you say that loans paid to the debt pre payments to the i m f. and so one of contributed as well? no, no i think what, what we are facing a ration because because of my team he's basically because of the log down not so long time period. ringback has been extended for i need to compete and that has that correlate on, on the, on the goals and therefore, unprofessional economic research. so that economy has created up rolling, most people don't having enough income to be able to access the food. so that's the challenge we're facing right now, and that is clearly reflected in the numbers we were observing. now in the numbers we're looking at also, we see that there are some prices and that is also linked to your the original va

loans, latin america, which is mostly middle, middle income country, is one of the regional which is the most effective. and the reason for this is because the america is usually an informal economy, 55.2 percent. in average countries go up to 70 percent looking formality like now if you're in an informal economy where you don't have access to health insurance, you don't have access to employment insurance, and you don't have access to those acuity and economy loss flow. in some countries more than a year, then all these informal economy stopped economic activity and therefore before the middle class now becoming poverty and nurse people because they don't have access to cash anymore because they don't have any going to be. so i have, i think it all in the world. so it's more than just because of a payment of loans. it's a more complex problem. of course, there is the driver's structural driver's rater. and these were the ones that was referring before. climate change, conflicts,

mostly clothing for emergency are in conflict areas in africa, and also as load on some boundaries. multi affecting is low down on down. yeah, i want to explore some of those issues of conflict in a moment. but britain obviously has had the greater numbers at food banks. we've had campaigns by football le, mark as rational to be able to retain free school meals as regards food insecurity in britain. why so little about countries like britain, which is facing food insecurity level in the united states, where tonight, what 40000000 more than 40000000 because of covert will not be able to eat without handouts from the u. s. government. yeah, but that one of those countries is that they are formal it the same as the economy is stopped because of their locked down, but employees still get their unemployment insurance. and when they are over the years of unemployment insurance, they will get. so there's a good which is no,

it under real income, but it will get resorted in informal economy. you don't have that. ok. on the other hand, you gay and others have been able to mobilize their full bank hands on to be able to. so if they think of the closures of the schools where it gets used to me, but that has not been enough, although the depletion in those countries is not as romantic other situation where facing the nature of asia, africa, and america. now countries like, for example, that were able to expand their cash transfer program anonymously. you will see that today, official numbers show that. busy they have even been reviewed as the, as a result of the 19 but it will look at putting security increase. what he's telling us again is building of importance of using formal economy, which in brookfield were partially middle classic women and which are, are eating their conditions in terms of hire, not just moving into poverty. and because transfers were only targeted to put it

through the cash transfer program that he had in place, they didn't affect the newport security that were more barrier when people that were to know what else support you're ready. but it, because of the informality that'd be ineffective. so that those point between putting security and the effect of defense for programs which shows that also targeting has been a problem in the policy being implemented. so you want to recommend to those countries where the most people are starving systems of food distribution and health insurance. i presume you don't necessarily mean private health insurance and social care insurance. you want to recommend to those countries what is obviously failing in the richer countries? no, i think what i am saying is that there are 2, we're going to want to take into account 1st. i think that you need to have better data. and we were claiming 40, so the beginning of the 19 that we need to embed in, sorry, to be able to find

a new hot spot operating security. because clearly the fact of life not a typical problem, i think only the poorest of the poor. he was going to create a new, a new, a new post, what's up with the security. and that's something that can be done. we did for several countries in africa and what the support governments and the 2nd number that i am saying is that we need to find in all the solutions to reusing for money i'm for example, sometimes it's like a middle may choose options of level relation which is more adjustable to that is on the culture. if you make the legislation more flexible and formalize those people. ringback taking into account that the analogy you can feel they're working calendar and therefore you can give them so security, you can give them intro. so those are the good things that which will be discussing trans, private or public doesn't have an issue. and we need to learn from best practices around the world. how much say that? that's key actually in the public, private debate. what about the effect of us sanctions? because we heard earlier about the effect on cuba more than 30 countries,

the united states sanctions, britain, sanctions, various countries were following the washington consensus that increased hunger, george encoded the continuing sanction, say, against venezuela or iran and so on. so i will, in the case of, of let me separate the 2 types of corners. one is it will look up around q and we look around to $84.00. in the case of katie, which to a huge political crisis because of the nation of the pricing. but katie had more than 50 percent of their population already on chronic on the nurse. and these have been accept the rate of even more and the political in really making things worse. in the case of it, we look at the safe q for example. ready q before because we didn't have cases up on the nourishment it was already. busy there was no 100 ok iteration apparently now have shown signs of problems 30 percent of what they think

that they don't have access to currency. and they are starting to face discussion which is bring in some political problems. so for sure, there are some political context picking them and avoiding them to have the fact that they currently they. ready need to mention sanctions there. i'm going to say at all, i'm not going through that. i'm not going to so that's why i'm going to write. okay, well i think some people will be surprised that your so outspoken in this report about israel restrictions are movement in palestine. how did you come to the conclusion, the restrictions on movement of people and goods are affecting food security for children in palestine. know that they access it and the availability, so they're not wanting to access which i was reverend before, which is if i have enough income to be able to get it. but if you have enough ink and you have some income and you don't have a legal foot, that's

a big problem. and that's where restrictions are. mobility are great and they cut the rate dissipation even more. because in the prices even it's broke. great, because a lot of our position is trade. if you move foot from one location to where there is no foot, you bring fruit from other locations internationally and even within the same country. and obviously sanctions contribute to the stoppage of trade and food insecurity. i think that's kind of obvious. you talk about conflict, time and time again in this report. the importance of conflict join cove. it, do you think it helped when joe biden bombed syria and iraq just in the past few weeks that help foods insecurity. israel, of course has been bobbing syrian high. you have a yeah, i got referred to as we have and we showing the report is that confusing conflict like gaming and all the countries in conflict. they accessories even more than the nourishment. so what we saw in the report is that when you have company and you

have another that i read that we'd like like to low downs and others, which company for sure will grade that your situation is the fact that right the remote. so again, it's important because conflict is one of the major drivers of the courses we're trying to drivers right now. so why didn't you recommend any recommendation list the end of the arms trade with britain? of course it's supplying weaponry falling on yemen. you have a big section on yemen. why is that not your? these are report better increments integrating money in development and building 40 actually mean? yeah, but it is not that report about about arms and he's not that report about the results and report looking at what we can do in our experience when we working conflict on we can find mechanisms through linking food and trying to increase where we can have these quantities, which are because of all the political reasons in a complex situation. and you definitely expect 5 to 7000000 more children with

stunted growth by the food insecurity situation exacerbated by corona virus, and people wasting up to 40000000 more. what do you mean? wasting 40000000 more in 20202030. so there will be a significant increase of those 2 indicators which are on the nourishment indicators. and that's why we need to try to tackle and try to reverse. so chronic and the nurse, meaning one dimension way seen is when you have a role him or for age or wait for for age. so, so we need to look at those or the indicators. because again, you want to look at all the forms of an orange minimum and we're just finally, is it difficult being there at the f? a? oh, what's a criticism? do you face when you come up with reports like this? you are at the well, bank yourself so often blamed by many in the global south for creating the food insecurity that you write of in this report. no, i think there are 2 different impacts of the world bank, the money lending institution for development. my job there was to work on the

important right to, to facilitate and res lending so that we can reduce forward the way the young here is a different job is trying to bring everything and availability of information so that we can support companies to change their policies to reduce that hunger. so, but that requires a lot of not present information and that's what the report, right? so we are very open in the information we provide. we are technically base and we make all our data. so we are one of the institutions where all the data that we publish, i think contra level is made public and people can the lowest and use it through ours. but so i think that's like push a role because we have to validate the data that we analyze and we call it and we normally have one program, what i want indicate. so i think we have to come up with a set of information that has that. we're also understand the ones that are facing and hope that we can create a formation and change to achieve what we want in as you do at this point. mcnamara, thank you. a pleasure, matthew for the show will be back on wednesday. i had

a meeting in italy of g, 20 environment in energy ministers with the immediate future survival of humanity on the table until then keep in touch with social media and let us know what you think or who you think is to blame for food and security in cuba ah ah ah ah, ah

hello, driven by a dreamer shaped by those in me dares things we dare to ask me. ah, well got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy foundation. let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic development. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, a very critical time. time to sit down and talk

the the, your sleeping and then the water comes and you can open the door. you're just in your room and you're drowning. europe is coming to terms with the off them off of devastating floods of germany, declare a state of emergency while laboring countries were also hit by torrance, of water leaving at least 180 people dead. correspond reports from the da's office here in our file in the state of rhode island. latin. this is one of the worst effected areas by the flooding. you can see over to my left on this building where the water actually reached well above my own head.