will be possible avenue for change and improvement in cuba as well because of the economic transition. tours, for example, green energy there are they're happening and chill a bolivia, argentina in terms of lithium for example here. what i actually get to lithium in a 2nd. but you mentioned those other countries, and of course you're referring to do in bolivia, maybe the return of lula in bolivia, in brazil, the latin american superpower in next year. you don't think washington is looking at that very closely. the fact that this so called return to the pink tide is going to help cuba let alone all those countries and washington has to exert something more muscular to use a terrible germ about lib liberal intervention. i mean, you hear that miami may are saying as strikes and needed like yugoslavia thought, inconceivable. i mean, we know that this has happened in many countries and as well recently, i think it's possible there might be more muscular intervention. there was also

part of the case, so the mercenaries in haiti recently and, and also in bolivia last year with some that was covered just recently by the intercept. so as told and that's not impossible. and i think that us is really making mistaking and still to get a hard line stance towards a lot of these progressive governments. so america, by insisting on the language of discourse, human rights, et cetera, when in fact some of what's happening and let america now is really not the violation of human rights. it's actually progressive movements and ideas that ought to be given the respect they deserve. sovereign countries, so definitely the us taking no, of course the trumpet instruction was it was worse, but i think even with vital we see again it's going to moralizing view that in the end hurts both sides most in america. and i think in the long run, heard us american interests as well echoed in the no gold mainstream media,

or are they chastened by the fact they fail to overthrow the venezuelan government? i mean, one guy do is been to london in downing street with boris johnson bars. johnson is explicit that he wants the over the role of the current venezuelan government. yes, and again, this is something that even in the u. s. i would say, 1st of all, they us tend to ignore, look in america and, and that's some big mistake. obviously there's the immigration test will be the major reason why we talk about a lot in america and in the u. s. and there's a lack of economic integration, cultural integration. the whole idea of the us is exceptional and different. i think that's, that's a major blog, the thinking of some understanding of americans when in fact the u. s. has a lot of commonalities with latin america as opposed to society with racial divisions and diversity in the presidential system. so all these similarities ought to be emphasized as opposed to being minimized and. and so that does trace the risk

. and this is reflected in foreign policy, i think the u. s. has to take a much more self reflective perspective and to change its position, but definitely via sort of more muslim progression is always on the table when it comes to american foreign policy. so we have to be very wary of that, and i think the only way that i can stop is by pressuring from outside and from within. i think to people like bernie sanders and others who are more progressive might be able to persuade president body to take the road. but what i'm sure, you know, i'm not sure how often they they meet in fan is. i mean, you're an expert on lithium. what do you say to the bolivian president incumbent luis us about lithium? i mean, you heard a lot musk, a pioneer of electric cars powered on lithium. we all carry lithium in our mobile phones. it almost said we will, qu, whoever we want to know,

evidence that he was behind the jenny in the us back. who would, i mean, how, how do you advise louise us to run bolivia in the face of one of the riches people are not saying we can qu, he won't. so that was a very controversial estate, i think ultimately does mainly self promotion for only moscow. just to get and get into news. this is something provocative. there hasn't been anything directly involved in linking him to the cool. but this kind of off the cuff cowboys, kind of the statement i think is really dangerous because that has created a lot of animosity in bolivia towards the u. s. and towards american companies. i think it's possible to repair that damage if you have an alternative kind of been your interpreter leadership within the us who are going to respect bolivian laws and the bullying people and come to work with bolivia as partners. and so one thing i advise the lease says that he can, he should watch movies,

work with anybody. you could be china, russia, the u. k. in the us. but they have to respect the laws and the people in bolivia that's, that's a 1st thing. and they have to have some idea of war believe what's the history the, what's the sort of, indigenous community, what are the where they're like, you can just come in and take the lithium. so i think lisa is very much open to working with anybody as long as they respect the fact that it's a national national resources it's, it's not gonna be privatized. but companies can come in and work to help extract the lithium and commercialize it until it the best way that will help bolivia minimized and also a little over a team, but also improve its position geopolitically. and it's such a big resource, the lithium resource, and believe it mckesson you, beautiful soul lake of unit would, should be protected, of course, for environmental and tourism reasons, but it's extremely large. and so it's kind of a win win situation for the world. you know, the whole world is, was shared to green energy, and bolivia is key that the crucial elements and in this transition. so it has to

be done in a way that respect the sovereignty of bolivia and defy they can all be privatized. past efforts, additional gas and water in bolivia which lead to basically the rise of their mono more or less the american oil just have to learn from that and avoid stopped. going to be insisting on that. so i think it's possible to do that. i think with us that we have a more pragmatic technocratic approach the politics of the left. and i think again, any negotiation with usually rings on alarm bells in latin america. we can see what happened to ecuador, but i mean, even in the past few days, nescafe is reportedly worried about your new state owned coffee initiatives. the europe in union did not back morale as is allegations that there will be the us back who and now it's condemning the detention of this alleged d. c washing and proxy. janine, on the, as i mean, i'm the catholic church as well,

i think is condemning it. i mean, do you don't tell the president that no country with the resources that internationally desired in the global south last long? well, i mean, we were hoping that that's not always going to be the case. now we, you know, we can be for the listing. i think we have to think that maybe this is the one time they're going to change history. of course, historically, right. this is happened all over the world from iran to cuba to julia sarah, but i think we're to be optimistic. i think we have to be talking craddick man who started work meant privatization means more, more free markets. but the way that we started approaching it is that, yes, we can be, have socialist countries, navigate in a world capital markets to its own benefit. and perhaps from their most blogs in which countries can corporate and acquire more sovereignty and to be able to deal

with major countries are much more equal. playing field ta prepared isn't government for the onslaught of so called mainstream media nato nations attacks on maybe you personally let alone the president, let alone the currency, let alone, perhaps us back to a nato back terrorism, which we've seen in latin america over the decades. yeah, this is especially worried about what happened last year with the mercenaries coming from the us and stopped. i mean, this was something that came out last year was recently reported by the interest that's on the guardian, etc. but this can happen at any moment. it's again, we need all allies within the us with in latin america to help us communicate better. i think it's the risk that we have to take, but very rarely do we have such resources like lithium, for example, that can be transformative for, for bolivia. and it has to be managed in

a way that will provide health and education for everybody should not be for benefit for a particular regional. bolivia has to be for everybody. so i think it's, it's a difficult process or this whole task, but we have to be optimistic, isn't there alternative? and i think again, finding out partners from anywhere in the world, but insisting that we have to be equal partners who cannot be simply giving away the resources and the media in the us basically, we were non existent in america space and nonexistent south america, especially especially mainstream media, so i doubt that's going to change, so it's really important out alternative sources of information. and so that's something that we need to keep building. and to again explain what is the billing model. socialism is, it's a different model from q bus different from, from the previous cases, from it as well. it's already acknowledged a successful model during the period girls or at least 5 percent every year. it's ever a reduction of poverty by more than 30 percent. so it's not that kind of popular

socialism that we've seen before and many other countries. and i think it can be a question for the rest of the less when movements in america that we are seeing now the result of the constituents in for chile, the protest in columbia, i think they are taking a cue from bolivia. they're learning from the national model, bolivia, it's a new model that people should know about, that it's something that can benefit again, many, many sectors of society and it's not just for one, industry, etc. so i think we have to do a good job in transitioning from gas to deliver them. so that's a general strategy i'm seeking to advise president are so on ga, ga. what kind of thank you. thank you very much player. after the break from sanctions to was to climate change, we ask the chief economist of the us, food and agriculture organization. if the goal of ending world hunger by 2013 as possible at all in the face of us, a gemini,

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to the person. i knew often the said it was the culture blue book. truly i don't want the more the the more you to meet the chicago contract usually through which and it's gone. yeah. cuz really new, from the moment that she's in the go rang and it's not going to not a monumental charges. on the

eastern half of the united states, we're going to have billions, if not trillions of periodical to caters interacting with tens of millions of human beings. in their back yard. oh my god. obviously some of the cicadas do not have very high tolerance for alcohol because they are already passing out are 6 minutes a 400 i mean that's very satisfying. and shine me every thursday on the alex famine show. and i'll be speaking to guess on the world, the politic sport business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. me

the welcome back. in part one, we looked at the effect of us sanctions joining a global pandemic on cuba and latin america. well, today a report is published by the un on the stage of food security in nutrition in the world. but is there any chance of achieving the goal of eliminating world hunger by 2030 in the face of us sanctions and was in the extractive nature of global capital . joining me now from room is the chief economist of you and food and agriculture organization. maximo terreros, who co authored the report. thank you so much. maxima for coming on here in london were treated to pictures on so called mainstream media of richard branson, billionaires going to space the u. s. fed says the american households at 13 trillion to their savings, the u. k. resolution foundation. say 7800 pounds richer. the house owners go here in london, your report. 800000000 not being able to feed themselves. yeah.

is that i think the 1000000 people more than interview 19 are growing and the nurse so iteration is hugely challenging. but that does not mean that we don't have a beginning. and that's what we try to raise and report. so everybody's trying to bring up the numbers and especially on trying to show the big asian of the drivers which are normally climate conflict. a low down and down terms of 19 how that's what the situation in one of the highest spike in the last 2 decades of, of increase of clinic and the nourishment in the world. exactly. there are recommendations. it's not just there. all these people that have be more impoverished by corona virus. would you say that loans paid to the get pre payments to the i m f. and so one of contributed as well. no, no, i think what we are facing and acceleration because because of my team,

he's basically because of the log down. not so long time period has been extended for a new computer. and that has a quarter later on, on the, on the creek and the beatles and therefore under the session economy position. so that economy has created up rolling. most people don't having enough income to be able to watch that. so that's a challenge we're facing right now. and that is clearly reflected in the numbers we were observing. now in the numbers we're looking at also, we see that there are some prices and that is also linked to your, to your initial belongs latin america, which is mostly middle high income country. is one of the reasons which is the most effective. and the reason for this is because the america is usually an informal economy, 55.2 percent in average. countries go up to 70 percent of formality like. now if you're in an informal economy where you don't have access to health insurance, you don't have access to unemployment insurance and you don't have access to those

security and economy loss flow in some countries more than a year. then all these informal economy stop the economy activities and therefore before the middle class now yeah, i mean 49 people because they don't have to cash anymore because they don't have any going to get if you. so i think it all in the world. so it's more than just because of our payment of long. it's a more complex problem. of course, there is a driver's stock drivers. i want to re there. and these were the ones that was referring before climate change. conflicts, most of the, for the emergency are in conflict barriers in africa and also as load on some boundaries. multi affecting is low down and down to yeah, i want to explore some of those issues of conflict in a moment. but britain obviously has had great numbers at food banks. we've had campaigns by football, markers, rash were to be able to retain free school meals as regards food insecurity in

britain. why so little about countries like britain, which is facing food insecurity level in the united states where tonight, what $40000000.00 more than $40000000.00 because of go with will not be able to eat without handouts from the u. s. government. yeah, but that one of those countries is that they are formal. it is same as the economy is stopped because of their locked down, but employees still get their unemployment insurance. and when they are over the years of unemployment insurance, they will get. so there's a good, which is no it under real income, but it will get resources in informal economies. you don't have that. ok. on the other hand, you gay and others have been able to mobilize their full banks, hands on to be able to. so they effect of the closures of a school where it gets used to me, but that has not been enough, although the depletion in those countries is not a romantic other situation where facing the nature of asia, africa,

and america. now countries like, for example, now we're able to expand their cash transfer program anonymously. you will see that today, official numbers show that. busy they have been being reviewed as the, as a result of having one thing, but it will look at putting security. it has increased. what he's telling us again is building of importance of getting formal economy, which in brookfield were partially middle classic women. and which are the theater, eating their conditions in terms of hire, not just moving into poverty and transfers where only targeted to put it through the cash transfer program that they had in place. they didn't affect the newport security that were more barrier when people that were to know what else to forward, you're ready. but it because of their informality, that'd be ineffective. so that those point between putting security and the effect of funds for programs which shows that also targeting has been a problem in the policy being implemented. so you want to recommend to those

countries where the most people are starving systems of food distribution and health insurance. i presume you don't necessarily mean private health insurance and social care insurance. you want to recommend to those countries? what is obviously failing in the richer countries? no, i don't think what i am saying is that there are 2, we're going to want to take into account 1st. i think that you need to have better data. and we were claiming 40, so the beginning of the 19 that we need to invest in week, sorry to able to find a new hot spot of wouldn't security because clearly the effect of life, not a typical problem. i think only the poorest of the poor. he was going to create a significant new, a new post, what's up with the security, and that's something that can be done with it for several companies in africa. what the support governments and the 2nd number that i am saying is that we need to find in all the solutions, the reviews for money. for example, sometimes it's like a video. they chose options of level relation,

which is more adjustable to that is on the culture. if you make the legislation more flexible and formalize those people. ringback taking into account that the analogy you can feel they're working calendar and therefore you can give them. so just the unity you can give them. so those are the good things that which will do 1000000 discuss insurance, private or public doesn't have an issue that we need to learn from best practices around the world. some would say that that's key actually in the public private debate. what about the effect of us sanctions? because we heard earlier about the effect on cuba more than 30 countries, the united states sanctions, britain, sanctions, various countries were not following the washington consensus. that increased hunger, george encoded the continuing sanction, say, against venezuela or iran. and so on. so i was in the case of, of let me separate the 2 types of corners. one is it will look up around q and we look around the 80 for in the case of katie, which to

a huge political crisis because of the condition of the pricing. but katie had more than 50 percent of their population already on chronic and inertia. and these have been accept the rate of even more and the political in really making things worse. in the case of it. we look at the safe q for example. ready q up before we didn't have cases up on the nourishment. it was already there was no 100. if you ok, if you apparently now have shown signs of problems, 30 percent of what they think that they don't have access to currency and they are starting to face it, gosh, if they will just bring in some political problems. so for sure, there are some political context of picking them and avoiding them to have the fact that they currently they need to have a major sanctions there. i'm going to say at all, i did not go through that. i'm not going to write ok, well, i think some people will be surprised that your so outspoken in this report about

israel restrictions of movement in palestine. how did you come to the conclusion? the restrictions on movement of people and goods are affecting food security for children in palestine. know that they access it and they have, i believe. so they're not wanting to access, which i was reverend before, which is if i have enough income to be able to get it. but if you have enough ink and you have some income and you don't have a legal foot, that's a big problem. and that's where restrictions are mobility are great and they got the rates dissipation even more because in the prices even start with the increase, what we need to know who the sandra and that is also a trade versus what kind of thing was happening because a lot our quotation is trade the defense, you move foot from one location to where there is no foot, you bring fruit from other locations internationally and even within the same country. and obviously, sanctions contribute to the stoppage of trade and food insecurity. i think that's

kind of obvious. you talk about conflict, time and time again in this report. the importance of conflict join cove. it, do you think it helped when joe biden bombed syria and iraq just in the past few weeks that help foods insecurity. israel, of course has been bobbing syrian high. you have a yeah. i got referred to areas we have and we showing the report is that countries in conflict like german and all the countries in conflict, they accessories even more than the nourishment. so what we saw in the report is that when you have company, which company for sure will grade that your situation is the fact that right, that the remote. so again, it's important because conflict is one of the major drivers of the courses which i took, right? because right now, so why didn't you recommend any recommendation list the end of the arms trade with britain, of course is supplying weaponry falling on yemen. you have a big sectional in yemen. why is that not your is that these are report better

recommend integrating any kind of element of the building actually mean? yeah, but it is not that report about about arms and you know that report about the results and report looking up what we can do in our experience when we work in conflict on we can find mechanisms through linking food and, and trying to increase where we can have these countries which are because of all their political reasons in a conflict equation. and you definitely expect 5 to 7000000 more children with stunted growth by the food insecurity situation exacerbated by corona virus. and people wasting up to 40000000 more. what do you mean? wasting 40000000 more in 2020, 2030. so there will be a significant increase of those 2 indicators which are on the nourishment indicators. and that's why we need to try to tackle and try to reverse. so chronic on the nourishment in one dimension, way thing is when you have

a role him or for age or wait for for age. so, so we need to look at those or the indicators. because then you want to look at all the forms of an, an, or minimal corrosion that we're just finally, is it difficult being there at the f, a o? what's the criticism to your face? when you come up with reports like this? you are the well, bank yourself so often blamed by many in the global south for creating the food insecurity that you write of in this report? no, i think there are 2 different impacts of the world bank, the money lending institution for development. my job there was to work on the bottom right to, to facilitate a better rate lending so that we can reduce poverty. and you know, the young here is a different job is trying to bring everything. and i love your information so that we can thing that can support countries to change their policies, to reduce and hunger. so, but that requires a lot of friends and information and that's what the report, right? so green, we are very open in the information we provide. we are thing equally base and we

make all our data. so we are one of the institutions where all the data that we publish at the country level is made public and people can, the lowest, i guess is through ours. but so i think that's a crucial role because it's closer to validated data that we analyze and we call it . and we normally have one program more than one indicator. so i think we've come up with a set of information that has that also understand it. burns their faith and hope that we can create a formation and change to achieve what we want to do at this point. mcnamara, thank you. a pleasure. matthew for the show will be back on wednesday. i had of a meeting in italy of g, 20 environment in energy ministers with the immediate future survival of humanity on the table until then keep in touch with social media and let us know what you think or who you think is to blame for food and security in cuba, the, the

russian president vladimir putin. it's a long article on russia and ukraine to say, is it a lot of response also so long and merkel germany long serving chancellor. what will be her last like ah. ready ready watch scan cancelli class. i mean, in the saw the culture blue book truly the new phones void. the because it's always more use to meet the teacher could contribute usually. so which and it's gone. yeah. because really new go from the

moment that she's in the venue. it's not a monumental chopstick thumbs up on the on drug started as a way to come back. a great problem. what's the one, it's part of the attitude of the nation, not just of north dakota, and it got to be something that you could get elected. this time, the fight against drugs took a check and told us that andrew was competing short form. is ways too dangerous for him to be doing? clearly they put him in harm's way. a rural college student does interest get shot in the head and found in a river like that. something else had to be happening. the

people you can see working around me are all full and he is, he's call them and he is to try and do whatever they come close. you've seen the lights weapons away by devastating floods in germany. turn on politicians saying this action they need not just words. i've been trying to sort out drinking water the to day, but it's impossible. business owners and ordinary people like you let down by the politicians. the news hungry south africans q for hours for emergency deliveries. absolutely, that's nothing to eat when they strip shelves clean and recent.