ah, i'm action or dancing, we're going underground, exposing the truth, the so called mainstream media don't want you to find out coming up in the show. after the alleged us back, who in bolivia and continued, you can us attempt to overthrow the government of venezuela. what is going on in cuba, and why is nature nation media promoting the children of those who abandoned fidel castro's revolution and arguably the best universal health care in the hemisphere. we speak to an advisor to the bolivian government, and as a un publish is a damning report into the state of global food insecurity. we asked the chief economist for the us food and agriculture organization, whether only revolution going to end world hunger after cove. it all this of all coming out today is going underground, the 1st director all of a stone till the last week, how predictable it is for us president to go on the record and support forces trying to have been through the cuban government having to joe biden, was the mayor of miami, who appeared to advocate us coalition air strikes against the island,

famous for being the flash point that nearly led to the end of the world. someone who knows about nature nation interference in the so called backyard is professor diego on cano advisor. to the incumbent, bolivian president luis house. he joins me from london. diego, thanks so much for coming on. your 1st the reaction to this, why you're in london, so you can see that coverage, some of it bizarrely from miami, present the children of, of those opposed to the cuban revolution. what, what's your reaction? it wasn't long ago, they were saying because during coal with the food security, there's 5000 that doctors cuba is sending to 40 countries. and now suddenly cube has finished the revolutions over thank you for having me. first of all, yes, good to be here in london. where yes, i can see the coverage of international news has shifted. i think it's a bit different from what it was a few years ago. and i think sometimes there's are enough perspectives from the

south, especially latin america and in terms of cuba. so historic change that's happening . bolivia, brazil, chile, i have all looked up to cuba in many ways as a leader of the revolution. and none of the events and phenomena, movements, and latin america that are occurring now would have happened without the leadership of cuba historically. so we are very anxious to see what is going to happen in cuba . i think there's the bar was the major or the major reason for the crisis and historical in the last few decades. but i think we also have to admit that the human economic model has failed to, as soon as it extend to for some people inside cuba. and we have to be a little bit self critical as well. and maybe to see what other pathways are to get out of that more asked, in a sense, i think what's happening in south america on the last will be possible avenue for

change and improvement in cuba as well. because of the economic transition towards, for example, green energy there are that are happening until in bolivia, argentina, in terms of lithium, for example, when i actually weighed, i'll get to lithium in a 2nd. but you mentioned those other countries, and of course you're referring to to us in bolivia, maybe the return of lula in bolivia, in brazil, the latin american superpower in next year. you don't think washington is looking at that very closely. the fact that this so called return to the pink tide is going to help cuba let alone all those countries and washington has to exert something more muscular to use a terrible job about lib liberal intervention. i mean, you hear that miami may are saying as strikes and needed like yugoslavia fighting conceivable. i mean we know that this is happened in many countries in venezuela recently. i think it's possible there might be more muscular intervention. there

was also for the case of the mercenaries in haiti and recently and, and also in bolivia last year with some of the was covered just recently by the intercept. so as told and that's not impossible. and i think that us is really making a mistake in still to get a hard line stance towards a lot of this progressive governments and america, by insisting on the language of discourse, human rights, et cetera. when in fact some of what's happening in the american knowledge, there's really not a violation of human rights. it's actually progressive movements and ideas that ought to be given the respect they deserve sovereign countries. so definitely the us taking no, of course trumpet ministration was it was worse, but i think even with biting, we see again, it's going to moralizing view that in the end hearse, both sides most latin america. and i think in the long and heard us american interests as well echoed in the so called mainstream media,

or are they chastened by the fact they failed to overthrow the venezuelan government? i mean, one guy do is being to london in downing street with boris johnson bar, johnson is explicit that he wants the overthrow of the current venezuelan government. yes, and i again, this is something that even in the u. s. i would say 1st of all of us tend to ignore look in america and, and that's a big mistake. obviously there's the immigration test will be the major reason why we talk about a lot in america and in the u. s. and there's a lack of economic integration, cultural integration. the whole idea of the us is exceptional and different. i think that's, that's a major law of the thinking of some understanding of americans. when inside the u. s. has a lot of commonalities with latin america as opposed to legal society with racial divisions and diversity in the presidential system. so all these similarities ought to be emphasized as opposed to being minimized and, and so that, that creates

a risks. and this is reflected in foreign policy, i think the u. s. has to take a much more self reflective perspective and to change its position, but definitely buying a sort of more muslims progression is always on the table when it comes to american foreign policy. so we have to be very aware of that. and i think the only way that i can stop is by pressuring from outside and from within a thanks to people like bernie sanders and others who are more progressive might be able to persuade president body to take the road. but what, i'm sure, you know, i'm not sure how often they, they meet in spanish. i mean, you're an expert on lithium. what do you say to the bolivian president incumbent luis us about lithium? i mean, you heard a lot musk, a pioneer of electric cars powered on lithium. we all carry lithium in our mobile phones. in almost said we will, qu, whoever we one, no evidence that he was behind the jenny in the us bag. who would, i mean, how,

how do you advise louise us to run bolivia in the face of one of the riches people are not saying we can qu, he won't. so that was a very controversial estate, i think ultimately does mainly self promotion for only moscow. just to get and get into news, there's something provocative. there hasn't been anything directly involved in linking him to the cool. but this kind of off the cuff cowboys, kind of the statement i think is real dangerous because that is create a lot of animosity in bolivia towards the u. s. and towards american companies. i think it's possible to repair that damage if you have an alternative kind of minerva into leadership within the us who are going to respect bolivia laws and the blue people and come to work with bolivia as partners. and so one thing i advise the lease says that he can, he should work with anybody. it could be china, russia,

the u. k. b u. s. but they have to respect the laws and the people in bolivia that's, that's the 1st thing. and they have to have some idea of war, believe what's the history the, what's the move or the indigenous community? what are the weather like? you can just come in and take the lithium. so i think which is very much open to working with anybody as long as they respect the fact that it's a national national resources it's, it's not going to be privatized. but companies can come in and work to help extract the lithium and commercialize it until it in the best way that will help bolivia minimize poverty, but also improve its position geopolitically. and it's such a big resource resource and believe, you know, just so you need a beautiful lake and una, which should be protected, of course, for environmental tourism reasons, but it's extremely large. and so it's kind of a win win situation for the world. you know, the whole world is shared to green energy, and bolivia is key that crucial elements in this transition. so it has to be done

in a, with a respect the sovereignty of bolivia and again, and if i can all be privatized past efforts of additional gas and water in bolivia, which led to basically the rise of mono more or less american. and just have to learn from that and avoid stop going to be insisting on that. so i think it's possible to do that i think with louis side. so we have a more pragmatic technocratic approach to politics over the left. and i think again, any negotiation with technocratic, usually rings on alarm bells in latin america, we can see what happened to ecuador, but i mean, even in the past few days, nescafe is reportedly worried about your new state owned coffee initiatives. the europe in union did not back morale as is allegations that there will be in the u. s. back coo. and now it's condemning the detention of this alleged d. c. washington proxy. janine, on the, as i mean, i'm the catholic church as well. i think is condemning it. i mean,

do you not tell the president the no country with resources that internationally desired in the global south last long? well, i mean, we're hoping that that's not always going to be the case. so we can, we can be for the listing. i think we have to think that maybe this is the one time they're going to change history. of course, historically, right. this is happened all over the world from iran to cuba, to julia tara, but i think we're to be optimistic. i think we have to be talking craddick men. historically, the word meant privatization meant more, more free markets. but the way that research approaching it is, yes, we can, we have socialist countries navigate in a world of capital markets to its own benefit. and perhaps from their most blogs in which is going to corporate and acquire more sovereignty and to be able to deal

with the major countries are much more equal playing field. how prepared is government for the onslaught of so called mainstream meteor in nature, nations attacks on maybe you personally let alone the president, let alone the currency, let alone, perhaps us back to a nato back terrorism, which we've seen in latin america over the decades. yeah, this is especially worried about what happened last year with the mercenaries coming from the us and stopped. i mean, this is something that came last year was recently reported by the intercept on the guardian and cetera. but this can happen at any moment. it's again, we need all allies within the us within america to help us communicate better. i think it's a risk that we have to take, but very rarely do we have such resources like the lithium, for example, that can be transformative for, for bolivia. and it has to be managed in a way that will provide health and education for everybody. and it should not be

for a benefit for a particular regional bolivia. it has to be for everybody. so i think it's, it's a difficult process on this test, but we have to be optimistic. there's another alternative and i think again, finally have partners from anywhere in the world. but insisting that we have to be equal partners who cannot be simply giving away the resources and the media in the us basically, we were non exist in latin america space and non existent south america, especially especially mainstream media. so i doubt that's going to change. so it's really important to have alternative sources of information. and so that's something that we need to keep building. and to again explain what is the bullet model. socialism is, it's a different model from cuba is different from, from the previous cases, from it as well. it's not like a successful model during the period of girls or at least 5 percent every year. it's ever reduction of poverty by more than 30 percent. so it's not that kind of

popular socialism that we've seen before and many other countries. and i think it can be touched on for the rest of the less when movements that america that we are seeing now, for example the, the constituents in for chile, the protest in columbia. i think they are taking a cue from bolivia. they're learning from the national model, bolivia, it's a new model that people should know about it. and it's something that can benefit again, many, many sectors of society and it's not just for one, industry, etc. so we have to do a good job in transitioning from gas to deliver him. so that's a general try to i'm seeking to advise president our so on what kind of thank you. thank you very much player. now after the break from sanctions to was to climate change, we ask the chief economists of the us food and agriculture organization. if the goal of ending world hunger by 2013 as possible at all in the face of us, a gemini,

all the small coming up and bought 2 of going undergrad. ah, join me every thursday on the alex simon show. when i was speaking to guess in the world, the politics sport business, i'm show business. i'll see you then in the moon the welcome back. in part one we looked at the effect of us sanctions join global pandemic on cuba and latin america. well, today a report is published by the un on the state of food security in nutrition in the world. but is there any chance of achieving the goal of eliminating world hunger by 2030 in the face of us sanctions and was in the extract of nature of global capital

. joining me now from room is the chief economist of you and food and agriculture organization. maximo, to rarer who co authored the report. thank you so much. maxima for coming on here in london were treated to pictures on so called mainstream media. richard branson, billionaires going to space. the u. s. fed says the american household that a 13 trillion to their savings, the u. k. resolution foundation. say 7800 pounds richer. the house phone is got here in london. your report. 800000000 not being able to feed themselves. yeah. is that i think the 1000000 people more than in 2019 are growing and the noise. so iteration is hugely challenging. but that does not mean that we don't have a beginning. and that's what we try to raise. and his report report is trying to bring up the numbers and especially on trying to show the big estimation of the

drivers which are normally climate, complicated, low down, and down terms of 19 how that's what the situation in one of the highest spike in the last 2 decades of, of increase of chronic under nourishment in the world. exactly. there are recommendations. it's not just oh, they're all these people that would be more impoverished by corona virus. would you say that loans paid to the debt pre payments to the m f. and so one of contributed as well. no, no i think what, what we are facing a and the ration because because of my team it's basically because of the log down, not so long time period has been extended for a new computer. and that has that correlate on, on the, on the creek and the beatles. and therefore on recession economic recession. so that economy has created up rolling. most people don't having enough income to be able to access the book. so that's

a challenge we're facing right now. and that is clearly reflected in the numbers we were observing. now in the numbers we're looking at also, we see that there are some prices and that is also linked to your, to your initial va loans, latin america, which is mostly middle, middle income country, is one of the regions which is the most effective. and the reason for this is because that america is usually an informal economy, 55.2 percent. in average countries go up to 70 percent booking formality like now, if you're in an informal economy where you don't have access to health insurance, you don't have access on employment insurance. and you don't have access to those acuity and economy low flow. in some countries more than a year, then all these informal economy stop the economy activities. and therefore before the middle class now becoming poverty. nice people because they don't have to cash anymore because they don't have any going to get to be. so i had to think it all in the world, so it's more than just because of the payment of loans. it's a more complex problem. of course, there is

a driver's stock drivers. i want to re there. and these were the ones that was referring before climate change. conflicts, mostly clothing for emergency are in conflict areas in africa, and also as load on some downers of multi affecting is low down on down. yeah, i want to explore some of those issues of conflict in a moment, but britain obviously has had the greater numbers at food banks. we've had campaigns by footballer markers, rush, would you be able to retain free school meals as regards food insecurity in britain? why so little about countries like britain, which is facing food insecurity level in the united states, where tonight, what 40000000 more than 40000000 because of go with will not be able to eat without handouts from the u. s. government. yeah, but that one of those countries is that they are formal it the same as easily. they

stopped because of their locked down, but employees still get their unemployment insurance. and when they are over the years of unemployment insurance, they will get. so there's a good, which is no it under real income, but it will get resources in informal economy. you don't have that. ok. on the u. k . and others have been able to mobilize, their full band comes on to be able to substitute. they effect of the culture of the schools where it gets used to me, but that has not been enough, although the depletion in those countries is not as romantic as the duration were facing the nature of asia, africa, and america. now countries like, for example, now we're able to expand their cash transfer program enormously. you will see that today, official numbers show that. busy they have been being reviewed as, as a result of 19 but it will look at putting security. it has increase. what he's telling us again, it's another importance of getting formal economy, which in brazil were partially middle classic women,

which are rating their conditions in terms of hire. not just moving into poverty and transfers where only target to put it through the cash transfer program. but it had in place, they didn't the fact that you were supposed to put into curity that were more barrier when and people that weren't know what else, of course you're ready. but it because of their informality, that'd be enough. so that those point between putting security on the effect of funds for programs which shows that also targeting has been a problem in the policy being implemented. right? so you want to recommend to those countries where the most people are starving systems of food distribution and health insurance. i presume you don't necessarily mean private health insurance and social care insurance. you want to recommend to those countries? what is obviously failing in the richer countries? no, i don't know what i am saying is that there are 2. we're going to want to take into account 1st. i think that you need to have better data. and we were claiming for

the, for the beginning, i think i'll be making that we need to invest in week, sorry to be able to find a new hot spot operating security. because clearly the effect of life, not a typical problem affecting only the poorest of the poor. you are going to create a new group, a new post, what's up with the security. and that's something that can be done here for several countries in africa. and we're able to support governments, and the 2nd thing is that we need to find in the solutions the reviews for money i'm for example, some countries like a bill may choose options of labor relations, which is more adjustable to that is on culture. if you make the legislation more flexible and formalize those people taking into account that the analogy you're going to feel they're working calendar and therefore you can give them, can repeat, you can give them feature. so those are the good things that which will do 1000000 discuss insurance, private the public doesn't have an issue. and that's something that we need to learn from best practices around the world. some would say that that's key actually

the public private debate. what about the effect of us sanctions? because we heard earlier about the effect on cuba more than 30 countries, the united states sanctions, britain, sanctions, various countries were not following the washington consensus. that increased hunger, jury encoded the continuing sanction, say, against venezuela or iran. and so on. so i was in the case of, let me separate. the 2 types of card is one is it will look up around q and we look around to $84.00. in the case of katie, which to a huge political crisis because of the nation of the pricing. but katie had more than 50 percent of their population already on chronic under nurses. and these have been accelerated even more, and the political and it's making things worse. in the case of it. we look at the island estate's q, for example, q before because we didn't have cases up on the nourishment. it was already there

was no hunger. if you ok, he apparently now have shown certain kinds of problems, 30 percent of what they think that they don't have access to currency. and they are starting to face discussion which is bringing some political broad. so for sure, there are some political context picking them and avoiding them to have that bible fax it to they currently they need to have a mentor sanctions. they're going to say all these ones are not going to whoever. right. okay, well i think some people will be surprised that your so outspoken in this report about israel restrictions are movement in palestine. how did you come to the conclusion, the restrictions on movement of people and goods are affecting food security for children in balance to know that they access to it and thereby leveling. so they

are not wanting to access, which i was reverend before, which is if i have enough income to be able to get it. but if you have enough ink and you have some income and you don't have a liability, that's a big problem. and that's where restrictions are mobility are great and they cut the rates dissipation even more because then the price is given to start with the increase mobility. sandra. and that is also get to the shop trade versus what kind of thing was happening because a lot our position is trade is offensive. you move foot from one location where there is no foot, you bring throat from other locations internationally. and even within the same country and obviously sanctions contribute to the stoppage of trade and food insecurity. i think that's kind of obvious. you talk about conflict, time and time again in this report. the importance of conflict join cove. it. do you think it helped when joe biden bombed syria and iraq just in the past few weeks that help foods insecurity? israel of course has been bobbing syrian high. you have a yeah,

i got referred to as we have. and maybe as we show in the report, is that confusing conflict like german and other countries in conflict, they accessories even more than the nurse meditation. so what we saw in the report is that when you have company and you have another driver that we'd like, like to slow down the numbers, which company for sure will grade that your situation is the fact that right the remote. so again, it's important because conflict is one of the major drivers of the courses we're trying to cry because right now, so why didn't you recommend any recommendation list the end of the arms trade with britain, of course is supplying weaponry falling on yemen. you have a big sectional in yemen. why is that not your is that these are report better elements integrating money in development and building 40 actually mean? yeah, but it is not that are about about arms and he's not that report about the results and report looking up what we can do in our experience when we work in conflict on

we can find mechanisms through linking food and trying to increase where we can have these concepts which are because of all the political reasons in a conflict situation, and you definitely expect 5 to 7000000 more children with stunted growth by the food insecurity situation exacerbated by corona virus, and people wasting up to 40000000 more. what do you mean? wasting 40000000 more in 20202030. so there will be a significant increase of those 2 indicators which are on the nourishment indicators. and that's why we need to try to tackle and try to reverse. so chronic and the nurse, meaning one dimension wasting is when you have a role him or for age or weight for age. so, so we need to look at those other indicators because then you want to look at all the forms of an orange minimum. and we're just finally, is it difficult being there at the f a o, what's a criticism to your face when you come up with reports like this? you are at the well,

bank yourself so often blamed by many in the global. so for creating the food insecurity that you write of in this report? no, i think there are 2 different impacts of the world bank, the money lending institution for development. my job there was to work on the board and trying to, to facilitate a better rate. lending so that we can reduce poverty and the young here is a different job trying to bring evidence of information so that we can think of the support countries to change their policies to reduce that hunger. so, but that requires a lot of my friends and information and that's what the report tries to bring. we are very open in the information we provide. we are technically on base and we make all our data. so we are one of the institutions where all the data that we publish at the country level is made public and people can the lowest and use it through ours. but so i think that's a good role because we have to validate the data that we analyze and we call it and we normally have one program, what i want indicate. so i think we have come up with

a set of information that has that. we're also understand the burning therapy and hope that we can create a formation and change to achieve what we want in if you do at this point. mcnamara, thank you. a pleasure. massive for the show will be back on wednesday. i had a meeting in italy of g, 20 environment in energy ministers with the immediate future survival of humanity on the table until then keep in touch with social media and let us know what you think or who you think is to blame for food and security in cuba ah ah, when our show the wrong, when all just don't the road. yes to see out the thing because the after an engagement, it was the trail. when so many find themselves will depart and we

choose to look for common ground in the. ready ready quin july class to push me off the top of the culture blue box truly you for one for the the because it's always more you to meet the teacher could contribute it usually. so would you prefer to walk on? yeah, because when you go from the moment that she's in the background and

none of my new mental charges on top i the people you can see working around 3 year old volunteers, these comedy is to try and do whatever they come. those who have seen that live and swept away by the devastating floods in germany, turn on politicians saying it's an action they need not just words and sympathy. i've been trying to sort out drinking water in 2 days, but it's impossible. business owners and ordinary people alike let down by the politician. the french government is finalizing new covered restrictions including making a health path as a look at 3 for more places.