the who's in the, [000:00:00;00] the, with me, i'm actually in or tennessee, we're getting underground from britain in the midst of ours. johnson's unique freedom de corona virus experiments accused by doctors of creating a breeding ground for new variance coming up with a show is israeli software. bugging your phone, the editor in chief of wiki leaks,

which 1st exposed spyware on android and apple phones tells us what we should do, what it means for journalism and updates us on the usa is collapsing espionage case against julian detained here in london. and did you make money other coded, we investigate how it leads have made billions from the global corona virus pandemic. alyssa, more coming up in today's going underground 1st this week. so the mainstream media, so gold collectively ring their hands about private surveillance companies of revelations about the alleged widespread reach of the so called pegasus spyware, developed by israeli surveillance firm in its own group. the delayed reaction from the media could arguably be linked to the demon zation of where helix found a julian assange, according to the u. n. a still being tortured in h. m. p. bill marsh in london. but is this the latest example of what we're helix? we've been exposing that private surveillance for a decade. joining me now from reykjavik in iceland is where helix editor in chief christian robinson. christian, thanks so much for coming on. i'll get to whether i should throw my phone away in

a 2nd and to jail the co founder julian assange in a moment. but what do you make of all these journalists suddenly talking about and a so group, when, when you, when you were doing this, i don't know a decade ago, was it? yeah, i mean, we did the point about the seriousness of this business to 10 years ago. almost 10 years, but i mean i'm not going to say i'm important story and now i mean they do have evidence of wrongdoing. however, i mean, for those who have been following the industry for years and years and know that actually on december 1st, 2011, we can publish internal documents exposing the incredible scope for these privatized spy companies. and this sort of thing we're offering

to this particular gm's and targeting activities and political opponents. and i'm general. so at that time actually, and if you go to the website website, we can do sort or you can reflect on that one wants to be described. there was exactly the same thing that we have seen come to the surface and getting all the attention in 2011. when the duty i'm a sounds was launching this publication. another press conference at city university in that story got very little fraction that to me. and i was very surprised at the time because it was such a strong revelation. strong story, but it has taken 10 years and now to maybe reach to pollution. maybe people are now ready to accept the fact that these are spy tools that they can be carrying. but it does come as a surprise to,

to us that we can do that, chris and i and it just ask you, what should we do? you presume? here in a person of interest to a certain government. so i know there's a case in spain about the surveillance by ca, linked companies of jeffrey robinson, q c. talking to julian, a sons, you have a phone there. how frightened you? i mean, edward snowden, who will, you will help to get to safety in moscow, said take your sim card out when you tell what when you want total privacy. i mean, is that what we supposed to do is you have to always expect that your, your phone has been metal and i have been, it's very difficult to detect the ordinary people. it's, it's not that easy to see. actually a years ago, 11 expert in the field told me, well, i mean, the only symbol that you can sort of read into your phone has been tampered with

is the fact that the battery will die and go down to where you quick. that means that somebody is basically using a remote to your, your, your, your phone, your device, spying, to what i was doing regularly reporting, member hearing about how the drug dealers where operating with old mobile phones when they were meeting because they were afraid of being under surveillance by police, they will put their phones into the freezer that had the discussion. so i mean, you should simply always assume that this is basically taking away your privacy and security. nobody is secure in today's world. we just live in that environment. now, anisette group has given us a statement they've been talking about this and they say, and it's a group, is a life on a life saving mission. and the company will faithfully execute this mission.

undeterred, despite any and all continued attempts to discuss it on false grounds, that's what the israeli company is saying. they used to break up, eat affiliate sex and drug trafficking rings. nothing to do with attacking new york times journalists and journalists from you know, reuters in the economist live say the mission and anyone who's lives in. ready the potatoes and abusing those technology to go out of the political opponents. certainly not the lives of distance. ringback activities we have, we have no prob, i mean, roof about this and, and i should also say pension funds apparently here in britain invest in n s. so, so does that mean in capitalists countries where investing, i mean we're paying our taxes. you see that go into the military industrial complex and also private pension funds are investing in a so group, i mean, we all paying for our own we are,

it's just giving that must understand. there's only one company of many. i mean, 10 years ago we pointed the business was a multi 1000000000 dollar industry. we were calling out the pointing out the fact that this had to be regulated just like the weapons industry. but it, nobody listened. so it is unregulated and can easily be weaponized or we are calling this company, let's call it for what is really is, i mean, these are intelligence services and you know, and tend to say that we should call them non state hostile intelligence services. and the hostility is against the individuals against privacy and against the fund amendments of our democracy, democratic society. yeah, i mean, they say they vet their clients a love, but there's another way of approaching this story of the 50000 phone numbers which n s o says is the equivalent of opening the white pages and choosing these numbers

. random, it is that a lot of these media groups, they've been accused of being involved in the government, lies that get nato nations into wars wiki leaks. not appealing for the very information that may have been the may have been got through. and so pegasus spyware. so that we can find out the links between the journalist and so go mainstream media and the military industrial complex. the persuade, their populations into wars that killed wound or displaced tens of millions of people. i'm not going to encourage buying on journalists and all. i think it's, it's discussing practice, but it has been going on for quite a long time. you've dealt with the beginning. the lawyers had inspired by a private contractor. so could security company out of spain in the embassy when julian massage was there. but on top of that, when there was

a lot of journalists that came to visit to live, we have evidence that several journalists with spider, by this company, and including because they had to leave their phones with this company for certainly they were used as infiltrated mist malware and information was extracted from that case because he's in spain. obviously we don't and guards fighting on journals either. but you know that the u. k. god, you, in your old media partner doesn't appear to be giving much prominence to a key witness in the trial here in london. one of the key witnesses for the united states government admitting he was lying about all his allegations. why do you think the guardian is not interested in that report, or any of the publications that are listed in this beggars a spyware report? i haven't seen royces news flash that the most famous journalist in the world. the key witness against him is admitted his line. well,

it has little traction so far. i know that, you know, some of the main mainstream needed to doing without working on stories based on just from the, the, the university of journalists like the progress. so let's give it a little time. it's a complicated story, but i mean, the essence of it is we, we kind of get time, can we? because there's a heat wave here in london. i don't know what the temperatures are in bell much. i don't know what the covert situation is in bell much the united nation, special rogers repeatedly been on this program and the british start is being involved in torture. there is no time is that your right must be free to me. that is, it is absurd that he is sitting in the prison after he had a victory in court and general report. and it's just absolutely absurd that he would be sent back to the prison, which is creating the condition which was underlying the,

the decision by the judge to actually been my explanation. and talking about procedure, i mean, i'm trying to point out, i mean we're on somebody sit in a jail for 6 months. plus a wiley high court is coming to the decision whether to allow an appeal or not 6 months and a half a year. that's. that's absurd, it's a human rights violation that we would be condemning in any other country. this new revelation of blowing such a hole in the narrative by the american indian scientists in the, on numerous occasions in the just rates are ruling on january 4th. which means basically that the united states government was in misleading a u. k. court. that's very serious. ok, well the news here in britain is notes about that. in fact, the world global mainstream news had time to talk about jeff bezos going to space. that's

a much more important story than the torture of my name is publisher in the world. maybe amazon quick to shut down a w s. their web services system for an s. so the israeli pegasus system, after amnesty international, started talking about all this spyware. great success then, no problem. i know that we helix have often talked about amazon's close links to the intelligence services. i mean, that's so that's so that should not be the end of it. i mean, there must be an outcry in the, in the public. and as we've said, for 10 years, and those do the amazon's pointed out 10 years ago. i mean, the nice, nice to be a regulation of center street. ok. i'm sure amazon, it's just an online bookshop. obviously, i just, finally, i mean, you know, time and time again, those defending wiki leaks of talked about the us constitution about norms, international norms. the home secretary pretty battelle year who she was just grace

previously actually for ties to israel. she has got a consultation baby here, the home office on the official secrets act that some say make, makes leaks criminal. i mean we helix has always said, look, we're doing what journalists are supposed to do, you know, watergate kind of things. what do you make of the possibility that governments may say, i know there's a simple way to avoid the kind of legal problems that they're having to try and imprison, assigns for 175 years, make the kind of thing the wiki leaks do illegal per se, april, all right, well i mean that is exactly what the is the essence of the indictment against julian basically criminalizing journalists. and what should be of interest, rather than people in britain is back during me at the tradition hearing, we saw an attempt to redefine or,

or define the official secrets act in the same manner. so just look, sample is being sucked because that has to be a jewel criminality. it has before you last time somebody. what is a lead in an indictment has to be a crime in the u. k. so basically what, what the, what was merging out of the actual issue bruises was read definition of mostly journals, alignment and basically yes, publishing classified information coming from really is a crime. so that's criminal legend, journalism i remotes. there's a question robinson. thank you. and as i said in a so group has said it a statement to us that there is no link between the 50000 numbers do and as a group of pegasus and their technology was not associated in any way with the murder of jamaica shoji. and that full statement can be found online or below this video. if you're watching on youtube after the break,

forget the cayman islands are panama co founder. the tax justice network tells us why the u. k. in the u. s. top the leaderboard for the best off. sure. attack savings in the world. all this coming up in part 2 of going on the ground. ah, ah, the ah,

ah. when i would show the wrong. when all just don't the rule. yes. to see out the same because after an engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart and we choose to look for common ground the welcome back. while increasing numbers are being finding it difficult to feed themselves in the u. k. a u. s. during the global current of ours, pandemic, some of the in raking the cache is here in britain, 130000 have been killed by cove it. how? so joining me that from cambridge here is the co founder of the tax justice network in tax research u. k. director professor richard murphy. thanks so much richard for coming on. so we know that there was this scandal over the weekend about prime minister barak

johnson exempting himself from the lation. we've got the health secretary, obviously with co bid, and we got a lot of stuff at the moment about the former prime minister david cameron's lobbying allegations. how corrupt has the johnson governments response to corona virus? been in your estimation until this government came along. i had never dad call a u. k. government corrupt i was busy and that was a pretty i'm well, i think today because it was got to be pretty risky with regard to the locals. and frankly, i don't think anyone has any concern about quoting this government crop. now, because the evidence today over whelming, this government is pursuing its business in a fashion that is corrupted, favoring its own ministers. on some occasions with contracts, mat hancock got a contract from his own department from which he benefited something which by any reasonable definition of corruption might be involved in anti corruption campaign.

in some way for 2 decades. anyone would say is unacceptable. we say form administered lobby in ways apparently would be unacceptable in many countries. we see bars, johnson frankly distorting the true telling lies slowly without apparently any concern knowing that he will be found out who appeared to be indifferent to the consequences. so this is a government that is, in my opinion, absolutely rotten to the call that have absolutely no shred of credibility, which is bluntly pursuing policies now, which shows that it is completely indifferent to the well being of the people of the u. k. they are playing games with people in this country, putting their lines of risk, putting the lives of young people in particular risk dammit, my children, money, late teens and 20 children at risk because they're not for the vaccinated because it wants to do something which is awfully reckless in terms of because of the policy i, i find it hard to contain my anger with regard to this government because i think

a reasonable person should be angry with this government was, you know, bars trans denies, not only the dominic cummings is top advisors allegations disgraced former health secretary, mat hancock after allegations about his mistress and lobbying denies all wrong doing as does the former prime minister on the former prime minister. we've got to, we went to the treasury committee saying he did absolutely nothing wrong sending messages to ministers after leaving the house of parliament, it seems on behalf of greenfield capital, which made loans of 350000000 to liberty steel which employs $3000.00 workers. i mean, why would the treasury committee itself say, you know, cameron is innocent? this isn't corruption. he's been cleared. well, i bank with the treasury committee. why with the treasury commit to do this? well, a because it has a set the parking georgie, frankly, to our hollands. all parliamentarians know that there is nothing they can do to

challenge the government with the apc georgie, however, elected by a minority of people in the new pay. we must always remember that the consequence of having a 1st call supposed to electro system which is to be unfit for purpose. we give a government like this one, a massive majority, which led to exonerate itself and blame for what it's done, exonerate previous 5 minutes. this the blame for what they've done. i flies the official whitewash to the action, but which action is basically representing a minority of people in minority. but as you know, culture of ours, johnson more popular than ever. and that's after we heard that the sleeves watch dog is going to have one of his old bullying. didn't friends on the bullying? didn't club famous for? well, the allegations are they used to burn 50 pound notes in front of the homeless people . what was your reaction to that, sir? as to grand chair of the committee,

savage and public life has its pathetic and inappropriate is, i mean, what else can i say specific? an inappropriate would, would appointing a charm a person who has less be honest, being a member of an organization which clearly works on the basis of the bias within society. the billing flow was set up to celebrate the privilege, and frankly, the abuse, the privilege provide the to deliver. now it's a parent being appointed to look at sleep in society. and i do not think that is a clear and objective appointment that in how she lives, i would think was fair and appropriate. so i will use those measure. it was if i can to describe this appointment, but it is clearly not appropriate. and this is the whole thing that we're saying within the capture of the processes of government by ok, a party, if you still the most popular in the u. k, which does not reflect the majority interest. now my suggestion is that we can see

significant change and its popularity. the concert tonight in the u. k is never going to probably enjoy support of less than 30 percent of the electorate. that just seems to be it's hollow core support and i would never get to majority and comment. once we see the current kind of a crisis develop and you've got to read the sensible epidemiologist existence in the u. k. the people on independence age, for example, look at their forecasts and caveat full call. so i'm used to looking for costs and statistical data. and i know that a full cost is not a certainty, but look at all the range forecast. and what we're seeing is that we're going to be hundreds of thousands of people getting it every day. we get significant rise in hospitalization. we all go to see a lot of people die over the course of the rest of this year. almost certainly within weeks we are going to see the country back in lot that and again because that is the only way we will. okay, well i mean, you know, you're not epidemiologist but apparently that's good for the economy. but my point is that once all of those things, once these reverses happen,

once johnson is found out from them most cool, absolute promise, he made it over locked down and finished. we've got freedom. i think we're going to see a significant change this popular every government comes to the point where it's loc chrome. okay, all right, well, we'll see because some people are going to say that actually stano who hasn't really opposed this government to time and time again. that's the opposition for international views, and actually between storm and johnson, they might have a majority even on 1st plus the post. what might i mean? but let's come to stone. i mean, i'm pretty cool. it's donna, i don't see why i shouldn't be like many. i really would like to know what the lead to the opposition is doing because he doesn't appear to be opposing the government to the fact that he might like to read the job title. it is lead to the opposition, which require to be actually stand up. and now part johnson likes to claim that that's unpacked, realty, to oppose the government. but actually, when this government is clearly failing, thomas should be offering. it'll tell that it's offering alternatives to go to this court issue

a candid offering and all times division of the society that we want in the u. k. one, where they are decent public services where they're properly funded, where the station is fair. and when, for example, at this very moment, there's discussion on social care, how to fund care for the elderly in the u. k. and the proposal that we're hearing from the government is that this may well be an extra tax on those who are chorused in the economy. and those who are youngest in fighting as this government so often does pensions between the have, the elderly and large, as i have said, that you can call me and i have not the young and in fighting creature between the rich and the pool. we should at this very moment be actually imposing taxes on wealth in the u. k. obviously, i mean, i'm sure those in the lead to watching this will say jeremy corbin did off of that and it was rejected at the ballot box. but that's go to our international view as i just say to lack of, there was an election. the international view is especially the rich ones watching

. why do you think britain is one of the greatest tax havens in the world? now that's something to be proud of. surely, i've written 2 books, tax havens, and i've also this opinion that britain is now one of the biggest tax savings in the world. and i will give you the explanation in a few numbers. there are 4700000000 companies in the u. k. we can't explain why a population of size need so many companies. the tax authorities only off the tax returns from too many of those companies and half of the the rest say we are not trading, please do not trouble us by asking for a tax return. and then the u. k. we say, yeah, that's all right. we won't ask you for information of the ones that do submitted termination, a significant number say they have no profits and the number of investigations is tiny. so if you want to set up a company somewhere, which is not going to make displeasure, come to the u. k. pay 15 pounds for your company. signed no physical documents to do so, provide no proof of identity, which you would have to do. so in any the recognized fact patients in the well form your company let it trade for

a while and then get rid of it. and literally the company's house in the u. k. will get rid of your company on payment of 10 pounds and a declaration that is never traded, whether that is true or not. so this is the place which provides the greatest opportunity for tax cheats in the well. now we should be deeply ashamed of that and the power will not. i don't understand why we want to undermine our own economy by providing the opportunity to tax cheats to thrive within it, to provide the people of many other countries, what the chief taxes in their own country is the opportunity to do that. but frankly, it is easier for the company, it is easy to t t taxes if that's your goal using a u. k. healthy. now that a company in jersey, the ottoman came in british regina is almost whatever you like tonight. ok, this isn't an advert. for instance, for the rich i was just thinking about, but i mean could even co it vaccine companies were doing there apparently is going

to switzerland in delaware. we were presenting in britain is a new delaware, but stole is joe biden. after all his going for this global corporate tax rate. sure, you are celebrating that agenda yellen announcing the global minimum corporation tax. or will it just encourage companies to go to countries that don't have it? i do celebrate this deal. if you perfect, know it better than anything i could have imagined 7 months ago when you might remember, we had a president trumped in the white house. this was going to be impossible at that time. now we're talking about the possibility of actually having a us lead but international coalition of a $130.00 nation states, agreeing to set up a minimum global tax rate that 15 percent now. barrel cap. yes. caveat thought the applies to some very large companies. it is going to by large pay the additional

taxes to countries like the usa and the u. k. and not to develop countries of the world that may well need that money more than you can. the usa do right now take the time when they are under stress as well, and measures in this be able to tackle the tech companies look to be pretty, how hot it it's better than no deal in terms of moral leadership biking is providing some here. so i've got to congratulate him on that. i've got to say that this is a step in the right direction, that are big flaws. one of the very big flaws in this is that it is dependent upon the quality of the accounting information provided by these companies. and i am a professional child accountant amongst the various roles i play. and i am well aware of the game that my profession plays and the open unity is that they take to manipulate numbers to suit their purposes, shall i, would you like that? and this could be a game that she's now going to be played. that companies will be restating and

reorienting, which they provide to their accounts to try to avoid the tax bills that they should be. i'm watered about. there is still campaigning to do. the door is not closed on this deal as yet. so that could be reform. i'm certainly gotta be putting quite a lot of african seeing whether we can improve it between now and october, when the opportunity closes. reservation you have that's it for the show will be back on saturday to yesterday. since for us, johnson became the prime minister, the u. k following the resignation of theresa may the 2nd consecutive resignation of a prime minister in the past 5 years after she failed to deliver breakfast and bill and keep it. that's why social media and let us know if you think that needs to be a stronger crack down on tax savings. ah, i joe biden invoke civil more parallels with greater frequency. this is ominous and

dangerous. unfortunately, it would seem, this is how the major political parties and the media view, the state of our politics. in a war, there are casualties and defeat in the culture. wars can one side bank. we should see other the us in germany strike a deal on the north string to pipeline, but vow action on russia over the alleged threat to security posted by the energy project. moscow insists the pipeline is purely commercial. the worst flooding in china in 1000 years, it has caused the depth wiped out transport infrastructure breached dams, and sparks a huge blast at an aluminum plant. and the situation is said to be getting worse. nobody suggestion was unchecked completion on the way. no serious economy,