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the news . welcome to the alex, i mean sure where we examined the consequences of partis johnson's freedom day. this monday, when many remaining cobra restrictions were lifted. although this just applies to england, scotland, northern ireland and then wheels are falling westminster and their relaxation of many of this to show restrictions designed to prevent sprays of the virus. this summer might to the u. k. not kind of if the pacific was over with a wave of major sporting events at 1st, these were trial events carefully managed with limited crites, but in quick succession england to stage the european football tournament. wilson,

the open gulf on the british gone 3 with virtual 4 houses. unfortunately, these last god things have coincides with a resurgent virus with highly infectious visions, leading towards record inspection rates, public competence, and the government's message of removing controls has been shaken by the revelation last weekend. the vaccine protect detail fixture side to job it was himself infected. while prime minister johnson was reported to cancel the victory over the vidas address on monday, with binary government concern over the search in new corbett cases. for monday was in state march by regular visa, nightclubs and reports and further claims from his change. prime ministerial adviser, woman cummings, that johnston had to pause people, controls because only the over eighty's were dying. in addition, the prime minister and chancellor could have been pattened by the own up to self

isolate as close contact of the hill. 60, however, for the control oversee followed when instead they said they could take advantage of a pilot to daily test and scheme for essential workers. a rapid you turn, followed in face of the wrath of the estimated half a 1000000 people who are self isolating at present on today, shall we turn to new zealand. talk to him only just on public health professor michael baker for an international view. how does the country which has successfully pursued a corporate elimination strategy regarding the approach of the u. k. government? then dr pilot and connie of extra university, expresses the fear of many u. k. experts about the risks and dangerous of the u. k. government policy, new feelings is one of the success stories of the pandemic around the same size of scotland. it's had 2800 confirmed cases of corbett and 26 fatalities. scotland cheese infection

a to similar to the other countries of the u. k. has had more than 325000 cases and over 10000 deaths. professor michael baker is one of the key architects of the new zealand elimination strategy. professor michael baker. you are speaking from wellington new zealand, a country which has pursued successful elimination strategy at least up until now. you've had 2400 cases of coleman and 26 deaths. from that vantage point. how do you regard ball as johnson's freedom day? well, it seems responsible and finishing quite dangerous. this is policy response to the cupboard, particularly the more fishes dealt with the audience. and it doesn't seem that you have the conditions for me up in the present. but should we have faith and the seen them in the u. k. has one of the highest vaccinated percentages of the

population in the entire world? shouldn't we just put her faith in the vaccine to, to believe that that will be enough to suppress the virus? well, it seems to be a serious disease. they're not quite present preventing transmission. the trouble is that you, you only have, i think about 55 percent of the population at this point and that's clearly not enough. so the thing that really amazes us is why the u. k is not waiting until it's scott wide or high coverage with respect seen in particular convex and it down to 12 year olds, possibly even to younger age groups in the future. and that's the parts being taken across europe in north america. and disney the approach and you sealant, i mean, we're rolling up at seeing now, and we've got approval to vaccinate down to 12 years of age. and we wouldn't think

of relaxing god until we had very high coverage down to those young age groups. press because looking in the form of his guidance for you k visitors to new zealand . and they, they want people to beware of for changing climatic conditions and also the possibility of terrorism. and what would be you wanting to key west us to the united kingdom of the present. why i think that has to be fully vaccinated. because otherwise is the high shots, you gotta get sensation. well, new zealand band, u. k. visitors, under cover circumstances and you would have been, well, we have a system that tries to be quite even handed. we do obviously allow people to come in by quantity. and we had to travel from a stray and cook islands. occasionally that is limited from different parts of outbreaks, but it's been going for 2 months is working well in general. but for other

countries, we look at the, the proportion of people, the risk they will be infected when they arrive here. and at the moment we've had we bessie turn down the 10 was would use the numbers of people travel from countries that have out of control. and that has been india, pakistan, and pap and your guinea impact to south america. the u. k. was in that position before christmas, but since it appeared to bring the pendant began to control. but now i think it's going obviously in the opposite direction. so if we find a significant number of having to mutate testing positive when they arrive here, we would restrict the number quite rapidly. professor bacon, what would you say to those say ok, the ceiling has been a huge success story. we'll give you that. you are, those are some miles from actually no, we haven't introduced and island nation of only just over 5000000 people as

possible for you to commit to an elimination. so is it quite different from a major country lately, u. k. and one of the great on the poles and hobbs of what all travel, totally different situation. yes, i agree. i mean, i think he and his natural boundary you insert as a stranger. if you look at a country and find the china mainland china that has a doctor's innovation strategy early on, and it's pretty thing 1400000000 people. but they do have that price per se to stand out. and also you don't get it now, which is actually struggling now, but for a year it largely maintained elimination strategy. in particular, over a 100000000 people long complex land borders. ready with china countries, and that is just by assume all the strategies you need for elimination to work. obviously you wouldn't start a clay and in terms of ancestry has met the connections of scotland,

the blood of our blood and bone of our born scotland. this had 10000 deaths from a call that compared to new zealand. 26 was subtler populations. would have been possible and us the mission for scotland to pursue an elimination strategy. and talk with colleagues. append in it, who i think desperately wanted to pursue the strategy. i think it was support from the scottish government. but the difficulty was that you are always the united kingdom and to an extent you had quite a large extent. you could not control your orders and that is a feature requirement to pursue elimination. so i think that she got to the point of having very low numbers and she was looking at elimination is potentially a strategy. but i think in the end that was difficult in that context,

we're located looking up the, the vaccine, or what's your estimation of the efficacy of the writing vaccines which are available and which ones are new zealand choosing? yes, well, i think the vaccines generally available in high income countries are or highly effective at preventing defense, serious illness and somewhat of it stopping in fiction. but in case we have enough fines, events the to the whole country by the end of the year and that we've gone with just one bit seen for simplicity. but we have also the positive extras in for another that seems that have been committed. but in this stage, i think from an equity point of view, there are, we can see benefits not being, not a refund to the q, which is, you know, we've been treated back in the q because there are other countries that desperately

need the vaccines. it's actually life for much of the world to get that thing so pied and administered. but of course we are now very keen to achieve full coverage and that we're on track to do that by the end of year fessor. baker, once again was assigned to celebrity biologist. once you pass to react, when you see the, the savings which do you have of people celebrating at night clubs and rubber boots though this happens with, with people of social distance of probably 2 inches as opposed to 2 meters. was passed only action to that. the so extraordinary scenes of this week in london. well, what did you say is that is life and you see in the moon and that's been life, and you've seen it for most of the duration of the pen demik. so you can say that same looks very familiar to me, but then i realized that it's in the context of the virus still. i think i'd very

high rates, in fact, the highest right now in the context of population that is not for the destination . so that is what i find. unbelievable that that, that policy has been taken. it seems ridiculous. and i would say quite dangerous. was a vice for you case citizen le, apart from the sting zealand as quickly as possible. what, what can people do in this environment to, to stay safe and passionate when family level one is remarkable to me is that you can not vaccinating children. so in a sense that saying, we think it is okay to have 510000000 children and young people across the u. k. infected by the next 6 months. but what's going to happen with these weight can be very hard to avoid being exposed to the bar given at the moment

you're doing a 1000000 tests today and 5 to send them down to be positive. that means the county, the wash with delta dental of this virus. so it is, i think almost everyone's going to expose and he said, sealed themselves off somehow from contact with other people. so unfortunately, some of the people who get sick will be fully destination because it's just the expose and know that the thing is i haven't seen that. so there will be people getting sick and dying as a result of this. the other concern i should say, and this is the one of the reasons why scientists around the globe got concerned about this policy, is that this creates a huge opportunity for seeing escape variance variance that are somewhat quite resistant to that same will drive and make more copies for

themselves, and that means with amazing evolution, the pressure or selective krisha favoring that seem to scan variance. i think this environment of having a population that's about half back natures and has a higher security virus. there is a perfect environment for these new variance to manage kind of professor your part of why don't community of scientists positions in contact with each other. i. this is a little community of scientists studying the deadly virus. how do you keep in touch with each other in terms of coming up with new solutions? it's a great question. it's a mixture of establish contact info networks. and increasingly we, we have formed a network. we'll have network, in fact, that is trying to bring together a community of scientists. and also, i would say people who are quite active us because the,

this is incredible frustration with government. some governments around the world of appeared not privatized, protecting the public, as they could head. and i can think that frustration and actual anger from colleagues in the pay because the pen image has been so badly managed, it's almost a list of what not to do. and so i think that has something we feel when many a lot of countries, governments doing the best. but i get that powerful sense of frustration, anger from my colleagues in the u. k. because of how barely managed dependent response to being the fessor. michael baker from wellington, you see you and thank you once again for joining me now. like simon show you coming up on to the break. alex continues as a few of the consequences of freedom be with dr. pod at pinkerton. yeah, jonathan,

me, the i i use me welcome to mac or finance survival guide. looking forward to your message. this is what happened the benches in britain,

delicate watch kaiser report. welcome back. alex is discussing the consequences of the board of johnson's corporate freedom day strategy. one of the most trenchant domestic critics, as dr. barton and connie of exeter university. but thank you, you've been a trenchant critic of bought us johnson's freedom day. what are your key concerns? the key concerns are that we've got the ingredients. stone. on the one hand, we've got a rising number of cases in the under, in the united states and united population all be younger lation. and then we have removed all the restriction and restrictions in the sense the places like nightclubs as well. and then to go along with that, we remove the mandatory infraction control measures like wearing a mask in crowded places, you train, etc. so we have the perfect still,

or no restriction, no infection control measures rising number of cases. and we don't have the authority to now impose as much infections and measures. can you think of any precedent of a country loosening restrictions into the t of a pandemic? no, it doesn't. and i as a infectious disease doctor, look at this and say, i wouldn't be doing this. i would at least have my foot on the brake pedal. i'm not here in the business of continues for i didn't for an item restrictions what we want is slowly, carefully item by item reduce the restrictions on how your foot on the brake pedal just in case. so israel had to do a u turn as did holland, as big chilly. so there is precedent that you just don't let go. you should have

your foot on the brake pedal. as a public health expel was your own personal feelings. when we saw the, the footage of, of london night clubs of young people bopping the night away, celebrating the freedom day of the stroke of midnight. what was your personal reaction when you saw these scenes? multiple phones, one is obviously we have failed to educate, inform, and advise people about the dangers of getting infected. people seem to be unaware that if you get infected, the number of things can happen. one severe illness to you get better and only as well 3, you could go on to have a long covey so and low copays and unknown, unknown. we don't know how long it lasts, what damage it does. so when we saw all but people get together on the stroke of midnight to celebrate in a indoor place where alcohol is and lots of people,

maybe for ventilation, it gives me a lot of cause for concern that we let go of managing this outbreak. looking at the evidence some across the planet at the present moment. chemist in the case just how infectious for example, the delta variant is. so if we want to make a comparison and you make comparisons by looking at what we call the basic or the effective reproduction number, we would have heard of it as referred to as our note. so if we look at that, the delta variance is about $3.00 to $4.00 times more infectious than the already know wild. whoo han saw chloe 2 wires. so it is significantly more infectious. i have to cite whilst it is significantly more infectious. we are very painful that it is not significantly more disease causing

and the other good news is that it is not significantly immune vaccine bypassing hard to get to situation. i mean i personally when i was at lee lee, england, scotland game and the utah championships a few weeks ago in the 12000 people, wembley, the, the whole thing was rigorously enforced. the pre testing and social distance thing . the students all over the place, telling the supposed to been good 5 to get the math class on and things like that. how could we have gotten from that situation to just a few weeks later, a same a final, a final with 60000 people. parking wembley stadium. did you get any appreciation of that excel edition out of control, the sporting available, still, probably uncontrolled. the events packed with tens of thousands of people. what has happened is i feel you've given up on wanting to control base because any one,

any basic expertise, inveterate disease control would tell you that if you do a short time with the virus still present and relating in the community, you're basically giving up on all your infection control measures, but we have watched television screen specially every day, some of the key experts in the country with the prime minister, backing up the wall for at least people thinking about melissa discussion in the scientific community about the messages going present moment. there's a lot of discussion if we will get the opportunity to look at exactly what government on advisors was saying, it will come out in the wash because it is blinding the obvious that if you've got a lot of cases, you need to go cautious. but these are political decisions, i feel it cannot be led by science because the science is telling us you need to go careful, you need to go cautious. and the times would tell us nothing wrong,

nothing wrong whatsoever. in mandating wearing off masks in public places because that reduces case number and allows us a small modicum of control. one of the young people in your classes have been what are they thinking about the they panoramic min 100. if an age group, which is know very much of many of the contemporaries putting themselves at risk, another hand that in your classes so they, they know a thing of to it. but by demick what this thing to you about, what's going on at the present moment. so i'm really privileged because i keep in touch with my students, and there is a cohort of students who communicate with me on a personal basis. and they write to me, they sent me a workshop message and we communicate instantly what i would say to you personally . is look after yourself, don't get infected, don't in fact, others where a better quality mask. and i opt my advice from the ordinary surgical masks that

we've been wearing. i said, i think we should update to an f b 2 because we have got a more infectious variant here. and i have to say, i'm sorry i taught science would lead the management of the outbreak. but it looks like the politics actually takes, has the trauma, cod dots been caught up if the government had waited instead of over 50 percent, past 2 thirds of a fast vaccination jag until perhaps 90 percent of the population will not session with them and able to do them and relative safety, what i'm doing now, unless hi, summer, the elephant in the room that we are not discussing and addressing properly is why on what bases are we saying? we do not wish to immunize children age 12 and above considering the m h r. a gave the vaccines clean bill of health. i'd appreciate that. there may be

a minor, a small percentage who may have con, die piece as a result of having the injection. but then on the balance of risks and benefits, i would say immunizing the children and that cohort would pay us many, many other additional benefits. i don't know why they're not doing. it would just say that schools being in england have been until this week. but at holiday in scotland, the schools been the main vector of transmission or a main vector up transmission of those fires with after dollar. and if we look at what we call a heat maps, it starts off with the younger age people, younger age groups. and then it goes on to their parents and then it goes on to the grandparent. this is well known accepted signs and the schools are a big mixing bullets. we know that the children who get infected may not be a disease, but self them will unfortunately go on to how long covey and we don't know what

that means and how long it if it is permanent. the other thing is, it's, if you immunize in that age group, it stops transmissions into older age groups, and you have a protective shield. furthermore, once you've got a fully immunized schools setting, you can have business continuity as normal in the schools setting. so that would be another bonus of immunizing, a stove and above and the united states, canada, israel, france, netherlands, are all doing a particular danger in the prime minister's freedom. the experiment as if you are a total loosening of restrictions and a possibly vaccinated population. this my actually coverage variance, which are escaping roland vaccines. you might be assisted with development over a supervisor. the switch can defeat a couple vaccines at the moment. the places where very uncontrolled infections in

a large number is actually a south american. so really we need to suppress infraction in the united kingdom without doubt, and we need to suppress infection internationally to otherwise the veterans that you describe will emerge. finally, dr. katia, if you had a message for the prime minister prime minister johnson lives after freedom the hollow blue of this week, what would it be? please? can you reintroduce the monetary very much in these private places? and what about immunizing children age quote, and about this is a very important thing to do. why are you not addressing it? dr. uncanny, thanks to university. thank you. once again for joining me on the alex simon show. thank you. according to chris christopherson, freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose alberta. johnson his stick.

everything on the link between crew, no virus on pressure, on the national health service having been broken by the high u. k vaccination rate. thus, the u. k. government's concept of freedom be withdrawing most corporate restrictions in england on monday of this week. however, the risks are evident. the u. k is currently undergoing a 3rd wave of corona by this based around the highly infectious delta v d and what not the economy into the teeth of a corporate site represents an experiment with its precedence. the link between the vidas and hospitalization has been weakened, but not broken entirely, and these are now on the rise. in addition, the long term impact of the debilitating effects of the virus sometimes called long corbett, are not well understood. if infection meet started to pass a $100000.00 cases a day,

the food damage to the health of the population will not just be measured an immediate hospitalized ation. finally, professor baker points to the risk that you keep opening up with a partially vaccinated population. may facilitate the emotions of farther boxiness as to the video. the bias meaning that the consequences of johnson's experiment may have global reach all in no, the just thought feed him d. c. more of patent than any supported advantage. but from a from alex myself, all at the show. it's good by stacy's. and we'll see all again, next to, ah, me . ah,

me, ah, this is our teens national in today's headlines, a chilling effect on press freedom. that's the reaction to a new law proposed by the u. k. government, which couldn't see john the length the prison times if they disclose the julian devastation in china. now mid one said the b was flooding in a 1000 years. it was death white outcomes for infrastructure on breach. the situation is said to only be guessing was.