i i use me join me every thursday on the alex silent shore and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politics sport. business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. me. ah .

i only welcome to cross talk there. all things are considered in peter and bill, the binding ministration tells us the world faces the stark choice between democracy and authoritarianism. is this make any sense? the balance of power in the world system is moving to multicolor a t and it's not defined by ideological preferences dangerously. washington continues to claim it has the right to define what is the legitimate world worker. i discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, george m u l e. in budapest, he's a podcast, or as a gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow were joined by dmitri bob and she's a political analyst and editor. it's me, internet media project, gentlemen. cross up rules and effect, that means you can jump in anytime you want would appreciate it. okay,

let's go to your 1st in budapest year. it's really quite interesting out the, by the ministration, endlessly talked about diversity, diversity diversity, and we see it in their politics domestically and now we see it since they had been to the administration pushing and diversity into the international system. which actually is really quite contradictory because diversity, in least nominally, is about having differences. but i think what we see here with the bio ministration is an extreme form of universalism, and they're covering it up under diversity because it's either or, i mean, it isn't returned to the cold board, but we are returning to a cold war paradigm. it is democracy versus authoritarianism and in that ideological minds and it kind of makes sense. but in the real world, it doesn't make any sense at all. go ahead. george. it doesn't make any sense. so there is really the difference between the sort of diversity at home and

superficial difference. because when the bite administration and ologist talk about diversity, they don't actually really mean abuse opinion. they mean the guy, the monolithic view of the world, they mean, you know, to be superficial attributes, you know, the color of your skin, what gender you are with sexual orientation is. but that's just the monolithic worldview. you want to get into the bike ministration. you have to subscribe to a certain set of doctrines, so they're not going to have a bus, the bus to abuse that in the administrative. and i think back now they look on the world. but the rest of the world have to follow this monolithic, logical mindset. now, of course, it's bringing them into compensation of this name with the rivalry. but it's also bringing them into conversation with countries that normally would be on their side

. so when the obama administration goes back, obama, so when to kenya was the end of his administration. he started lecturing them about gay rights. so he was getting ready to welcome its way with song, you know, the most, the most famous canyon in the well. and what is even where he goes or lecturing them about agonized, like in your when you're seeing the right now when the, by them, if you just a very involved in this patient is getting, it's often called with countries that are normally on their side is hungry and to the great, great freedom of the game, communism, the early please be worshiped during all 3 trends and now demonized. why? because then subscribing to the western ideological moment, d. m a,

i lost count the number of times george used the word side, meaning choosing signs. again, this has nothing to do with diversity. it is actually a 0 sum game. and what's really quite remarkable is that russia and china are demonized as being authoritarian. but even if you accept that proposition, russia, china are not proposing in the promotion. an extension of authoritarian powers, there's no evidence about whatsoever. so this is an idea watchable struggle coming just from one side. they use the word side again, go ahead, dimmer your chord cried. and i think george was quite right in the fight in the examples of poland and hungary as country is, which just didn't fit the morally that i would go monolith or the west. and it was interesting that president,

do know poland rooster for because he's southern said just a few days ago that the idea would you go constraints imposed by the european union? i in fact then you know what you call constraints that were imposed by the union. and the other example of gas done, i mean that the idea that you should educate goals before boys, you know, it just didn't go down and stuff and he couldn't, but there is no so, so i mean, 20 years, the longest, warren american history americans are leaving they're going to stop and i don't hear a war of self criticism. what did we do wrong? it's all about the table, our guns, the other 2 cases they are unable to do. so it's the same story again. i told you said the board 0 sum game and of all the sites is very important because, you know, we are trying to find out why is the situation so bad in europe. i mean,

it's no worse than a 1989 or 1987. why did it happen? well, because of george beep, right? you're right in his article. it's a big wall, the importer, somebody most american foreign policy article published in the national interest. in fact, clinton and even clinton and george bush with more, so supported universalism, instead of diversity. that was there. i mean, i remember how clinton many times came to moscow with his wife lecturing russians on the, on the benefits of american life. the problem was that he projected the immature great sympathy to watch rush. so, i mean, it's just a noxious, you know, when he'll respond that a chance in russia before the election in 2016 and when she was there, sexual state,

bill clinton never objective even though that was basically undue. and you know. busy what he said for many years when he was the president. so they basically impose this idea off against them. you know, instead of talking about compromise, talking about corporation in europe, it was about getting a critic west save in the former soviet republics from that authoritarian clark just over russia. i think that was the image or whatever that was very well presented by glen decent. our friend and the participant in the, in the cross talk in his reach and logical on our team website. you can also test driven in bel, russian culture. that's the headline on the you for how the situation develop. basically, why did we have wars in the form of the former soviet union? the main reason why people have was, is when the situation presents an opportunity for nationalists. so the 1st time the

national saw opportunity was in the end of the soviet union when loan for moving, you know, in the, in soviet politics. so people are nationalists, nationalists in yorba, and john nationalists in georgia just had to the moment you know, the moment when we can redraw bonus or preserve, or the says they are, they started the worse. if i could just jump in here, do you mean you're absolutely historically empirically? correct. let me move over to george here, but this all was counted as being pro democracy in the west jokes dba. got a spot on you have these rabbit nationalists looking for an opportunity. oh, and then they, they then the west and there and there, underlings and the media and they wrap it up into some kind of, you know, fluffy democratic thing. i mean, it wasn't had nothing to do with that whatsoever. go ahead. george. no, nothing is all of course the paradigm of the law was it was you the law in which the west deliberately deliberately misled the public

about what was really going on in the slot. so you have in croatia, princeton, openly fashion sizes, open apologise, while the regime in world war 2, coming to power and espousing the patriot. the raven hatred will discern which was reminiscent of what they were doing in the western media. western politician policy makers presented some of these are real democrats, you know, they, they, there, there is a democracy as opposed to the terrible people in belgrade pro russian ro come in this game, you know, the model to be used elsewhere, like so. somebody who's a mentor, big like real estate, present that again as a democrat. and then of course, the gaining ukraine also be nationally, crashes. the knowledge is

a present that as democrats and the western but so if you tell them, well this guy, you know, this is yara sh, you know, he's a sort of a sort of like are right. and that's, that's the west places. so, you know, they saw these nationalist classes, islamic, in a number of cases as useful goals for destroying yugoslavia and weakening, basically weakening russia and presented them as liberals and democrats. it's really interesting to me and said, you know, again, we have this kind of false choice or false binary. is it? if you want more reform and democracy must be pro western an anti russian? i mean, why can't you be pro, reform and pro they'll be pro russia. of course i'm talking about beer roots. ok. they're creating these artificial divisions that are, are completely unnecessary and do not exist in real life. go ahead, you know, what?

i think glen d some presented where you wow. article that i mentioned last guess driven in russian circus. you write that basically a directions have to make this choice between europe and russia and in the same way ukrainians created to make the choice. i remember how the control or association agreement with the start that it started in 2003. when president coach ma joined the joint economic space with russia. and immediately, i know that europe in commissioners when he came to, you know, prince, you said you have a choice, you know, if you stay in the jointly going to make space, say good bye to that your membership, it will never be offered to you. so the ukrainians were before the same choice, the, the west is now forcing the bell russians to make and blend decent is very right that this was the reason for the conflict on the was in the former soviet union,

democracy de mer. yeah, i mean it's, it's amazing. the west might forcefully severing countries that were former soviet republics. and they have common language, colon history, common religion with russian by several of them from russia, the west repairs the truth for c. one was like in your grain of conflicts and the coming back to what they just said, you know, the 1st way will was. so it was, it was in the late ages early 91 moment and we're moving in the soviet union and all this could be redrawn. you know, let me give you the example of georgia nationalists. they decided that this is the moment to take the land from the minority just from their projects, from their seconds. they're terrible. first president gums have tried to do it and she failed. and i must, it was that the west change because the west had the gods to condemn gums or they didn't make you one when they found mr. so actually the better we have to go to

a short break break, we'll continue our discussion and some real new stay with our ah ah ah ah, ah oh right now there are 2000000000 people who are overweight or obese.

it's profitable to sell food. that is 20 and sugary, and the under the victim is not at the individual level. it's not individual willpower. and if we go on believing that will never change as obesity epidemic, that industry has been influencing very deeply. the medical and scientific establishment, ah, what's driving the mac, it's corporate, me or my phone are 69 months, and i just saw under the dollar a former isis fighters and they're now a boarding,

a philippine naval ship with this family. i've been playing for john $900.00. jeff, aren't abdulla still don't know what's waiting for them? can i get a hold of me? i welcome back across all things considered. peter, this is a home addition and to remind you were discuss some real nose, the

okay, let's go back to jim in moscow here we went to a quick break here. you want to finish up your point. go ahead. so some of the 1st wave off or so it was, was in the early ninety's, the by the 1994. the situation stabilized, you know, the tools was find in the car box, georgia for some time stop their attacks against a party. and since safety and, and then they restarted in 2008 when saga really tried to retake. so why did you do that? why did the 2nd way? we'll see more more stuff in the pharmacy because georgia and ukraine were promised to membership in bucharest. so the nationalist decided here goes there, but unity again, you know, we had the opportunity in the early 90 s, late eighty's from the 17, wasn't integrating. we just did buy both of the food stamps. now comes the 2nd. and

we've had the conflicts in caramark, and we have the civil war in ukraine, a basically in the, you know, the reason was and they do expansion, you know, because need to, expression gave an impression of creating a new job political reality. and giving you up and you need to enter this in the form. so again, that's just that it's create a, creating a choice of either or when you have a good part of ukraine. historically, traditionally called 3 look towards russian errors the same, but they have to make this past with the devil, george ok. and it is the, you know, what the, the title of this program is ideological instability because it's id ology. all it does is great stability. yes. yes, that's it. then of course it was always the goal to scoop up. all of

these are all of the countries that had been aligned with the soviet union. the was back and those who weren't aligned such as, you saw the scoop them all up with a native group of all of the republics of the former soviet union, also within native that was always the goal. and so, but they use this ology of freedom and democracy to present it as if somehow these countries, you know, they want to be free on russian influence. you know, there are, you know, they're, they're fighting for freedom. and here we are, you know, the west coming to their assistance. but in reality, as the point though, you know, these are countries who have distinct histories, distinct the national interest of cultural relationships with russia. they don't have any interest in being scooped up within nato, which apart from anything else is leading them into perilous conflict.

what is the theme in georgia and the same? what does it prove to be in ukraine? i mean, it's never been thoughtfully explained, has been, you can want to have more transparent senior government. you want to have a government that respects rights, basic rights that are expected around the world. but you have the but to have that you have to be anti russian. it never made any sense to me whatsoever. want to change gears a little bit. you know, you said you focused on europe and i think you're absolutely right. but not mistaken. fema russia has good relations with japan, south korea, philippines, l. street, i mean they, there are no issues there, it's only in europe. ok. but then again, when you shifted to the east, there's a top prosy versus democracy argument called clack. and i think that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. it's only focused on europe at this point in time. go ahead. well, lou night, the states use the same argument against china. i mean it's,

it's terrible. in the last few decades, china has been the mangan ties with japan, you know, there was a trail april, some meeting on the president's own japan, south korea and china just recently. things seem to be moving up, you know, looking up. and now they're like just a success or chinese so great. you're in south china, sea or chinese. so aggressive is trying to see. and they even don't look at the names that these are actually supposed to china. what you are, right. you know, i think that the problem with much deeper than just foreign policy, all to put it there in systems use certain frame just sort of weaknesses all the nations that they control. the not is used germans pension for collectivism and for collective sacrifice. sometimes, in the same way, you know, the american authorities are using these st demand in america. america is

a nation of immigrants, and people in america, melville describe the way well and she was more calm and liberate the world, destroyed the tyrant's, you know, destroy this table. way, which is a symbol of evil, right? so the authority gets in the united states are using it very clearly and it's very interesting into you article george, be gold. jeff k, you know, kennedy, i'm like, wilson was called on making the won't say for you more can you just said make the world say for diversity. that's very, that's a very important distinction. you know, and i think that the moment is the early seek, just we were very close doing you agreement between the soviet union and the united states. that would save a lot of lives. and a lot of effort in georgia cannon wrote about that by the field because kennedy got killed and you know, all the people came to power. but in general,

i think it should be the slogan that they want to avoid another world war. we need to make the world safe for them and diversity, georgia. and the important thing is, is that for a stable, international order, all of the major stakeholders have to see the international order. it is being legitimate. but the ideology coming out of on steroids now from the bye didn't ministration, is that, you know, if you do not participate in act in the international system as we deem that you weren't illegitimate after. and if you deem a major power like russia and china is not being legitimate, then the order itself cannot be legitimate because you're denying them being stakeholders. yes, and that's why the russians repeatedly emphasize the united nations charter and the united nations as a whole, as the very basis of the international system. and the reason they do is that we

created this of the system of the security council in which the great powers are given a veto. in other words, we have a mechanism in place in which way where we get into issues in which great power interests are on the line, the great right to veto. and that created these, the stability that was absent in the league of nations because nobody, you know, you can say ok, you know, no one can do anything that will threaten the interests of soviet union rush. no one's going to think that will threaten the interest of china and so on. so that was the, that's why the united nations has worked where the league of nations failed because the great label, there's nothing in it for me. i mean, i don't, i don't and that's why what the west is talking about. the rules based order is

simply on the arbitrary rules that the nato power just cobbled together at any particular moment to justify what they do and to demonize the di, legitimize what great powers like china and russia, we don't get signing on. bill is we use that the rules and we are held to be a violation of the rules. well, interesting, georgia is that remember samantha power, she lamented russia's use of the veto. and it's really quite incredible. i would say to samantha power, it shows the system works because that's how it was supposed to work. okay. that was a whole point. that's why they put that in the, the veto. they don't want to do what they, why, and the league of nations that failed. so we can't do this again. you know, if you know this, this, this in hiding behind the close of democracy. but, well, let's look at the record yugoslavia. let's look at iraq. let's look at syria

afghan. it's stan, we go on and on. i mean, it's really quite incredible this, this idea logical offensive has garnered very little games. ok. and ends in failure every single time. and we have, we have the bio ministration, actually doubling down on it and, and as you just pointed out in the 1st part of the program, no interest section whatsoever. why it didn't work. go ahead. well, you're right. and not only did fail spectacularly in the, in libya or in again, it's obvious. but it also failed the former soviet union. i mean, the idea that america jordan, a demon, it's all right. the idea that western interference can help you more chrissy is absolutely counterproductive. glenn decent shows it very well in his article at the use of pinion website. basically,

the majority of the russians on law 40 her last, or you want to get the least popular person. they're looking for someone who could replace shackle and preserve with russia. someone like barber eco, but the west, the narrative is doubting only 200 k. you know the, that's the problem with, with terry and i would just, they have only one can do that. they have only bond very and you know, so that out in d colonels, that's very productive. you know, when dance economy was working badly when you have a role in the money and outside interference is in lockets relations. and that's exactly what happened in beller was in your brain because western influences, that's what happened in russia regarding what have step down from the political scene back in the early ninety's. if there was real competition, you know,

not impeded by west on the financial injections on because the west has been helping lindsay and the obligation, he stays there because he opens the controls from all the money. right? so and talking about relations between conscious, you said europe and asia, well basically similar processes in europe. you know, there were 2 attitudes, one, you know, be strong against russia. the other one, represented by the brand and the others negotiate with russia and the brands. strategy worked in asia again. there were 2 approaches. mom, the japanese one is like stand for, you know, until you see the islands, no peace treaty. and then there was the chinese or did you negotiate? be cramped, you know, cooperate, and the chinese ovarian worked. while the japanese, you know, they just, they, when they are 60 years or 78 the way they just stay wherever they are. so these

entered, it also doesn't work with russia. this can last word here. i mean, as far as the west fixation on there was once they pick their candidate, that's what they called diversity. ok, i'm going to have to in my one thing my guess in budapest and here in my going to think be worth watching as an art phoenix. remember, ah ah, the war drugs noted as a way to combat a great problem? what's the one? it's part of the attitude of the nation, not just of north dakota, and it got to be something that you could get elected. this time, the fight against drugs took a tragic. he told us that andrew was competing short form. this is way too dangerous for him to be doing. clearly they put him in harm's way. a

rural college student does interest get shot in the head and found in a river like that. something else had to be happening with the coverage restrictions and mandatory policies, bug furious rallies for freedom across the world. for medics argue that where one person liberty begins another ends, you have to balance personal choice with what's good for the most people at the end of the day. life is a balance of risk that you can't wrap people up in costs, and what else are the us won't be investigating. new york state handling of cobit 19 and nursing homes despite is ations of deliberately under.