ah ah we welcome to cross talk there. all things are considered peter and bill the by the ministration tells us the world faces the stark choice between democracy and authoritarianism. is this make any sense? the balance of power in the world system is moving to multicolor a t and it's not defined by ideological preferences dangerously. washington continues to claim it has the right to define what is the legitimate world worker. i discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, george m u l e. in budapest, he's a podcast or at the gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in

moscow were joined by dmitri bob. it, she's a political analyst and editor. it's me, internet media project, gentlemen. cross up rules and effect, that means you can jump in anytime you want. appreciate it. okay, let's go to your 1st in budapest year. it's really quite interesting out the, by the ministration, endlessly talked about diversity, diversity diversity. and we see it in their politics domestically and now we see it since they had been to the administration pushing and diversity into the international system. which actually is really quite contradictory because diversity, in least nominally, is about having differences. but i think what we see here with the bio ministration is an extreme form of universalism, and they're covering it up under diversity because it's either or, i mean, it isn't returned to the cold board, but we are returning to a cold war paradigm. it is democracy versus authoritarianism in that ideological

minds and it kind of makes sense. but in the real world, it doesn't make any sense at all. go ahead. george. it doesn't make any sense. so there is really the difference between the sort of diversity at home and superficial difference. because when the bite administration and ologist talk about diversity, they don't actually really mean to be or views and opinions. they mean that guy, monolithic view, the world, they mean, you know, to be superficial attributes, you know, the color of your skin, what gender you are with the sexual orientation is. but that's just the monolithic worldview. you want to get into the bike ministration. you have to subscribe to a certain set of doctrines, so they're not going to have a bus, the bus to abuse that in the administrative. and i think that now they look on the world. but the rest of the world have to follow this monolithic, logical mindset. now, course,

it's bringing them into compensation of this name with the rival. great. but it's also bringing them into conversation with countries that normally would be on their side. so when the obama administration goes back, obama, so when to kenya, towards the end of his administration, he started lecturing them about gay rights. so he was getting ready to welcome its way with song, you know, the most, the most famous canyon in the well. and what is even where he goes or lecturing them about agonized, like in your when you're seeing the right now when the, by them, if you just a very involved in this patient is getting, it's often called with countries that are normally on their side is hungry in poland to the great great freedom quite as again, doesn't mean you know you,

you please be worship during all what they got st trend. yeah. and now they're you know, demonized why? because then subscribing to the western ideological moment. i lost count the number of times george used the word side, meaning choosing signs. again, this has nothing to do with diversity. it is actually a 0 sum game. and in what's really quite remarkable is that russia and china are demonized as being authoritarian. but even if you accept that proposition, russia, china are not proposing in the promotion. an extension of authoritarian powers, there's no evidence about whatsoever. so this is an idea watchable struggle coming just from one side. they use the word side again, go ahead, dimmer your chord cried. and i think george was quite right in the fight in the

examples of poland and hungary as country is, which just didn't fit the morally, the idea, logical monolith or the west. and it was interesting that president, do know poland rooster for because he's suddenly just a few days ago that the idea would you go constraints imposed by the european union? i in fact, then you know what you call constraints that were imposed by the soviet union. and the other example of gas done, i mean, the idea that you should educate goals before boys, you know, it just didn't go down and stuff and he couldn't, but there is no so, so, i mean, 20 years, the longest, warren american history americans are leaving. they're going to stop and i don't hear a war of self criticism. what did we do? or all, it's all about. the table are guns, you know, there are they, you can't, you know, they are unable to. so it's,

it is the same story. again. i told you said the board 0 sum game and all the sites is very important because, you know, we are trying to find out why is the situation so bad in europe? i mean, it's no worse than a 1989 or even in 1987. why did it happen? well, because of george be right. you're right in his article. it's a big wall, the importer, somebody most american foreign policy article published in the national interest. in fact, clinton even clinton and george bush with more so supported university of instead of diversity. that was there. i mean, i remember how clinton many times came to moscow with his wife lecturing russians on the, on the benefits of american life. the problem was that he projected the immature great sympathy to watch rush. so, i mean, it's just a noxious, you know,

when he'll respond that a chance in russia before the election in 2016 and when she was there, sexual state, bill clinton never objective. even though that was basically undue. and you know what he said for many years when he was the president. so they basically impose this idea off against them. you know, instead of talking about compromise, talking about corporation in europe, it was about getting a critic west save in the former soviet republics from that authoritarian clark just over russia. i think that was the image or whatever that was very well presented by glen decent. our friend and the participant in the, in the cross talk is region logical on our team website. you can also test driven in bel russian culture. that's the headline on the article. and you look at how the situation developed based,

why did we have was in the form of the former soviet union. the main reason why people have was, is when the situation presents an opportunity for nationalists. so the 1st time the national saw opportunity was in the end of the service union when loan to for moving, you know, in the, in soviet politics. so people are nationalists, nationalists in yorba, and john nationalists in georgia just had to the moment you know, the moment where we can redraw bonus or preserve, or the says they are, they started the worse. if i could just jump in here, do you mean you're absolutely historically empirically? correct. let me move over to george here. but this all was counted as being pro democracy in the west jokes dba. got a spot on you have these rabbit nationalists looking for an opportunity. oh and then they they then the west and there and there underlings and the media. they wrap it up into some kind of, you know, fluffy, democratic thing. i mean, it wasn't had nothing to do with that whatsoever. go ahead. george. no,

nothing is all the paradigm of the law was of course you, the law in which the west deliberately deliberately misled the public about what was really going on in the slot. so you have in croatia, princeton, openly fashion sizes, open apologise, while the regime in world war 2, coming to power and espousing the patriot. the raven hatred will discern which was reminiscent what they were doing in the $900.00 western media westerbelt edition policy makers presented. some of these are real democrats, you know, they, they, they're, there is like a democracy, as opposed to the terrible people in belgrade, pro russian ro come in. but all these terrible, this, the game, you know, the model to be used elsewhere, like, you know. so somebody meant a big, like real estate, present that again as a democrat, and then it goes on as

a gate in ukraine where also people, nationally, crashes. the knowledge is a present that as democrats and you know, less than later. so if you tell them, well this guy, you know, this is yara sh, you know, he's a sort of a soldier of like, right? and that's, that's the west places. so, you know, they saw these nationalist classes, islamic, in a number of cases as useful goals for destroying yugoslavia and weakening, basically weakening russia and present them as liberals and democrats. it's really interesting to me and said, you know, again, we have this kind of false choice or false binary. is it? if you want more reform and democracy must be pro western an anti russian?

i mean, why can't you be pro reform and pro democracy and still be pro russia? of course i'm talking about beer roost. ok? they're creating these artificial divisions that are, are completely unnecessary and do not exist in real life. go ahead, you know, what? i think glen d some presented where you wow, in article that i mentioned, i guess driven in russian circles here, writes that basically directions have to make this choice between europe and russia and in the same way ukrainians, aged to make the choice. i remember how the control or association agreement with the start that it started in 2003. when president coach mark joined the joint economic space with russia. and immediately i know the europe in commissioners when he came to you know, prince, you said you have a choice, you know, if you stay in the joint economic space, say good bye to that your membership, it will never be offered to you. so the ukrainians were put before the same choice

. the, the west is now forcing the bell russians to make and blend decent is very right that this was the reason for the conflict on the was in the former soviet union, democracy de mer. yeah, i mean it's, it's amazing. the west might forcefully severing countries that were former soviet republics, and they have woman, language, coleman, history, common religion, with russian by several of them from russia, the west repairs the truth for c one was making your grain of conflict and coming back to what they just said, you know, the 1st way will was so it was, it was in the late ages early 91 moment and we're moving in the soviet union and all this could be redrawn. you know, let me give you the example of georgia nationalists. they decided that this is the moment to take the land from the minority just from their projects, from their seconds. they're terrible. first president gums have tried to do it and

she failed. and i must, it was that the west change because the west had the gods to condemn gums or they didn't make one when they found mr. so i should be back by or within a go to a short break break. we'll continue our discussion and some real new stay with our ah ah, i just want to go through, i'm john that a little about money laundering person to ask you to see this and this is a good start. well, we have our 3 banks all set up here. maybe something in europe, something in america, something overseas. in the cayman islands, you never know all these banks are complicit in their club piper. so we just have to be mccall. hey, i'm ready to do some. there is my laundry. okay, let's see how we did. well, we've got a nice luxury watch for max and for safety. oh,

beautiful jewelry. and how about like the automobile again for mag you know what? money laundering is? highly legal. dopey spots. hello. driven by dreamer shaped by those in me there's things we dare to ask me a whole lot in my phone are 60 and i don't i

just saw up dollar a former isis fighters and now boarding a philippine naval ship with john and $900.00 jeff aren't abdulla still don't know what's waiting for them can i get a hold of me . ready i welcome x across. are all things

considered? and peter, this is a home addition and to remind you were discussing some real news. ah, ah, the okay, let's go back to jim in moscow here. when we went to a quick break here, you want to finish up your point, go ahead. so some of the 1st wave off was so it was, was in the ninety's, the by the 1994. the situation stabilized, you know, the tools was find in the car box, georgia for some time, stop their attacks against the party and since safety. and then they restarted in 2008 when saga really tried to retake. so why did you do that? why did the 2nd way we'll see what was stopped in the pharmacy region because georgia and ukraine were promised to membership in bucharest. so the nationalists

decide up here goes there. but unity again, you know, we had the opportunity in the early 90 s late 81, the storage unit was integrating. we just did, but most of the food stamps. now comes the 2nd. and we've had the conflicts in caramark. and we had the civil war in ukraine, a basically in the, you know, the reason was the need to express and you know, because need to, expression gave an impression of creating a new political religion and giving you up. but you need to enter this in the form . so again, that's just that, it's great a creating a choice of either or and when you have plenty of good parts of ukraine, historically, traditionally culture. you look towards russian arrows the same, but they have to make this past with the devil, george. ok. and it is the, you know, what the, the title is, is program. it's ideological stability because it's the ideology. all it does is

create stability. yes. yes. that's it. and of course, it was always the goal to scoop up. all of these are all of the countries that the and aligned with the soviet union. the was backed. and those weren't align such as you saw the scoop them all up with a native and scoop up all of the republics of the former soviet union, also within native that's always the goal. and so they use this ology of freedom and democracy to present it as if somehow these countries, you know, they want to be free on russian influence. you know, there are, you know, they're, they're fighting for freedom. and here we are, you know, the west coming to their assistance. but in reality, the point though, you know, these are countries who have distinct histories this think the national interest of cultural relationships with russia. they don't have any interest in

being scooped up within nato, which apart from anything else, is leading them into perilous conflict. whether the theme in georgia and the scene, what does it prove to be in ukraine? i mean, it's never been thoughtfully explain, has been, you can want to have more transparent senior government. you want to have a government that respects rights, basic rights that are expected around the world. but you have the but to have that you have to be anti russian. it is never made any sense to me whatsoever. want to change gears a little bit. you know, you said you focused on europe, but i think you're absolutely right. but not mistaken fema russians. good relations with japan, south korea, philippines. l. street. i mean they, there are no issues there. it's only in europe. ok. but then again, when you shifted to the east, there's

a top prosy versus democracy argument called clack. of things that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. it's only focused on europe at this point in time. go ahead. well, the night the states use the same argument against china. i mean it's, it's terrible. in the last few decades, china has been many times with japan. you know, there was a trail april, some meeting on the president's own japan, south korea and china just presently. things seem to be moving up, you know, looking up and now they're like, stay, success, or chinese. so gratian in south china, sea or chinese, so abreast of east china sea. and they even don't look at the joke, different names that actually seems close to china when you are right. you know, i think that the problem is much deeper than just for in 40. see all the different systems use certain frame. yes. so the weaknesses of the nation is that the control,

the not is used germans pension for collectivism and for collective sacrifice, sometimes in the same way you know, the make just using these thank demand in america, america is a nation of immigrants and people in america. you know, melville describe the way well, and you won't be come and liberate the world, destroyed the tyrants, you know, destroy this table way, which is a symbol of evil, right? so the authority gets in the united states are using it very clearly. and it's very interesting article, george b hold, jeff k, you know, kennedy, i'm like, wilson was called on making the world safe for democracy. can you just said make the world say for diversity? and that's very, that's a very important distinction. you know? and i think at the moment in the early stages, we were very close doing you agreement between the soviet union and the united

states. that would save a lot of lives and a lot of effort in georgia. canon wrote about it by the field because kennedy got killed and you know, all the people came to power. but in general, i think it should the slow when all the, the want to avoid another world war. we need to make the world safe for them. and diversity, georgia, and the important thing is that for a stable, international order, all of the major stakeholders have to see the international order is being legitimate. but the ideology coming out of on steroids now from the, by the administration is that, you know, if you do not participate in act in the international system as we deem then you are illegitimate after. and if you deem a major power like rush and china is not being legitimate and the order itself can be legitimate because you're denying them being stakeholders. yes. and that's why

the russians repeatedly emphasize the united nations charter and the united nations as a whole, as the very basis of the international system. and the reason they do is that we created this of the system of the security council in which the great powers are given a veto. in other words, we have a mechanism in place in which way where we get into issues in which great power interests are on the line, the great right to veto. and that created these, the stability that was absent in the league of nations because it was, you know, you could say ok, you know, no one can do anything that will threaten the interests of so the unit russian, no one's going to think that will threaten the interest of china and so on. so that was the, that's was why the united nations has worked where the league of nations failed

because the great label, there's nothing in it for me. i mean, i don't, i don't know and that's why what the west is talking about the rules based all the simply on the arbitrary rules that the nato power just cobbled together at any particular moment to justify what they do. and to demonize the di, legitimize what great powers like china and russia, they were going to find the on the list. we use that the rules and we are held to be in violation of the rules. well, interesting, georgia is that remember samantha power, she lamented russians use of the beat, and it's really quite incredible i would say to samantha how it shows the system works because that's how it was supposed to work. okay. that was, that was a whole point. that's why they put that in the veto. they don't want to do what they, why in the league of nations that failed. so we can do this again. you know,

if you know this, this, this is hiding behind the close of democracy. but well, let's look at the record yugoslavia. let's look at iraq. let's look at syria. afghanistan. we go on and on. i mean, it's really quite incredible. there's this idea logical offensive. his garnered very little games. ok. and ends in failure every single time. and we have, we have the bio ministration, actually doubling down on it and, and if you just pointed out in the 1st part of the program, no interest section whatsoever. why it didn't work, go ahead. well, you're right. and not only did it fail spectacularly in the, in libya or in a game where it's obvious, but it also failed the former soviet union. i mean the idea, george a demon, it's all right. but the idea that western

interference can help you more chrissy is absolutely counterproductive. glenn decent shows it very well in his article at the opinion website. basically, the majority of the russians i lot 40 her last girl, or even for the most get the least popular person them looking for someone who could replace shinkel and preserve stories with russia. someone like barber equal. but the west, the narrative is doubt in only $200.00 k. you know, the, that's the problem with, with the military and i would just, they have only one can do that. they have only bonds, wary. and you know, so that out in the colonels, that's very productive. you know, when does economy start was working badly when you have a role in the money. and i would say the interference is in lockets relations, and that's exactly what happened in beller was in your brain because western

influences, that's what happened in russia regarding what have step down from the political scene back in the early ninety's. if there was real competition, you know, multi impeded by western financial injections on because the west has been helping lindsay and the obligation, he stays there because he opens the controls some of these michael, right. so and talking about relations between conscious you said europe and asia, well basically similar processes in europe. you know, there were 2 attitudes, one, you know, be strong against russia. the other one represented by the brand and the others negotiate with russia and the browns. strategy worked in asia again. there were 2 approaches. mon, the japanese one is like stand for, you know, until you see the islands, no peace treaty. and then there was the chinese or did you negotiate?

be cramped, you know, corporate and the chinese ovarian worked. while the japanese. ready you know, they just, they, when they are 60 years or 7080 years later, they just stay wherever they are. so these entered, it also doesn't work with russian. this confront last word here. i mean, as far as the west fixation on there was once they pick their candidate, that's it. they called diversity. okay, i'm going to have to edit my one thing, my guess in budapest and here in moscow. and i think be worth watching is here in phoenix. remember ah ah, ah, is your media a reflection of reality? in a world transformed what will make you feel safer?

tyson lation whole community. are you getting the right way or are you being direct? what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted, you need to defend the join us in the depths will remain in the shallows. ah oh right now. there are 2000000000 people who are overweight or obese. it's possible to sell food. that is fatty and sugary and the victim is not at the individual level. it's not individual willpower. and if we go on believing that will never change that obesity epidemic, that industry has been influencing very deeply. the medical and scientific

establishment, ah, what's driving the vehicle? it's corporate mm. the cobra restrictions and mandatory pass his book furious rally for freedom across the world. while medics argue that where one person's liberty begins another end. you have to balance personal choice with what's good for the most people at the end of the day. like it's a balance of reason. you can't run people off in cost. what the us won't be investigating new york state handling a cobit 19 and nursing homes despite his ations are deliberately under counting the .