tv Going Underground RT July 31, 2021 2:30pm-3:00pm EDT
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me the, [000:00:00;00] the with me i'm action or can see what's going underground coming up in the show. after you get us, he, you, nation armed is really strikes on garza and syria. is the world complicit against international law. the un special operator on human rights in the occupied palestinian territories. today, the day ballast indians would have gone to the polls, tells us israel is liable for war crimes. and we investigate the origins of islam of phobia with an international human rights. who tells us why we shouldn't fear
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muslim planet all the small coming up in today's going underground. but 1st, today would have been palestinian presidential election day, but under an occupying power accused of war crimes. after all, was daily israeli killing and multi $1000000.00 aerial bombardment. well, this is pegasus revelations of his really spyware company. and so group were overshadowed by the news that ice cream company been in jerry's would stop selling ice cream and illegal israeli settlements. join me now from ontario and canada is the un special repertoire on the situation of human rights in the occupied palestinian territories. professor michael link. thank you so much michael. for coming back on. let's just go straight to the letter that you and 2 other guys were operators calling for elections. the not happening today off the rule. have you spoken with israel? after all, armed by britain, the united states and european union nations that appears to say no elections in east jerusalem. i don't see any pressure for quite frankly, from the international community with respect to the, the rescheduling of these elections. we want these elections to be held,
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obviously in as soon as possible, hopefully within the next 6 months. and we would like, obviously all the participating parties, israel, the palestinian authority, hamas, as well as the international community to ensure that all palestinians have a link to vote a right to participate. and particularly those and in occupying eastern islam where israel has made it very difficult to trying to conduct the policy and elections. i mean, we see those in palestine watching this right now. we'll go hang on a minute. there's been aerial bombardment every other day in the gaza, seemingly. why are we talking about elections? any response from the israeli government to the letter? know? quite frankly, i'm surprised. i have been in the position of special tour for more than 5 years. i have never received a single reply from israel to any of the 75 or so statements that i released or any of the 10 reports that are released or any requests made by me to be able to visit
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the occupied palestinian territory. they don't recognize the mandate, they don't engage in it, and they don't reply to anything that i right. i mean there being some noises since joe biden was elected, does the united states even recognize view as un special roberta? i've not heard anything with respect to that. i don't have a regular contact with the united states. so i'm hoping to now that we have a president that at least on paper is more open to i guess, recognizing some form of palestinian rights. what we'll see down the line, i hope to be able to be in touch with the americans of the next time i'm in geneva and in new york, you think bennett will allow joe biden to but a u. s. consulate in east jerusalem for the ballast indians. i'm sure is that a beach that's going on within the israeli government and the end of the day? i can't see how the how these read the government can refuse. the old opening a reopening of the u. s. council. that's been there since before. 948 is my
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understanding as simply restoration to the status quo. job whiteness done some on attacks. some of the issues that were, that had been on done by the foreign president such as the restore aid to unwrap the palestinian refugee agency run by the united nations. he's attempting to try to reopen as constantly as restore funding to the palestinian authority. in general, i mean in the news has been hundreds killed or wounded in the shape, your neighborhood obviously directly in your remittance as these eviction processes going. i'm going their supreme court decision comes, but can i just quickly go to gaza and ask you what you know of what is happening there, especially given israel has been airily bombarding it with weapons supplied to them and weapon birds from britain where i'm speaking to you for sure, the most recent statement was made by the united nations during
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a special meeting of the un security council devoted to the middle east. and the deputy un coordinator stated that there is attempts now to vote to evaluate the amount of damage done to gas both with economy and to its infrastructure. it's probably somewhere in the area of, of a half of a half a $1000000000.00 of damage that was caused during the violence in may. there is an attempt to try to raise money, which is going slowly among international donors to fund this. again, there's attempts to try to be able to whiten the number of the amount of materials that are going in the gas, both for construction and reconstruction, as well as just for the daily economy. keep in mind, you know, gas is flat on its back, it's economy is stagnant, it has among the highest unemployment rate of any geographic unity unit that the world bank looks at at around 50 percent. it's health care system is shattered both
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by lack of equipment as well as by the rise. in cobit cases, it's water is on principle. it's now optimal, getting to around 14 hours a day of power each day, which is hardly enough to be able to, to restart in economy. any economic development goes on and gas usually is allowance of construction material to come in to repair. what is ready, missiles of want destroying, i mean, just on the journalism element, the fact that israel has been carrying out as strikes in the past few days, weeks. why do you think it doesn't even make the front pages of newspapers in the capital of countries supplying the been re to to bomb this area to speak of? so sadly, sir, i'd like to think i don't have a cynical bone in my body with respect to this. how else when i do this job unless i'm a, i'm going to journal optimist. but the question then becomes, if it's not, if it doesn't bleed, it doesn't leave here,
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we have more than 2000000 people penned up of behind a 14 year old blockade that constitutes collective punishment, which is the illegal under international law. and yet i can't think of a single other situation in the world where you have this number of people behind a behind fencing and basically not, not able to move outside of that restricted area. and you know, the, well, the level of attention given to the ongoing right file ations caused by this is minuscule. yeah. but i mean, if it bleeds, it leads, they are bleeding and what is it? how many were injured in the illegal beta settlement? just in the past few days, 150 wounded. you call this this settlement? the settlements war crimes. yes. and that is not a hard thing to to come by. i think any international lawyer looking at the definition of war crimes under the room statute of 1998, which created the international criminal court,
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will see that the definition of an occupying power. moving parts of a civilian population into the occupied territory is clearly on ambiguously defined as a war crime. and that language was directly borrowed from the 1949. fortunately, convention and the 1977 additional protocols. and those earlier documents and international law that the security council, the general assembly, and the un human rights council have repeatedly said, israel isn't flagrant violation of so it's no great logical step to say that if the settlements are, are great breach of the 14 convention and using or should the same language there war crime under the 1998 our own statute. well, israel obviously denies war crimes. the united states doesn't appear to really recognize view in human rights council. and presumably it's now up to the international criminal court to decide on the allegations of war crimes. does that
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mean that any businesses here in britain say, or in the you, if they are involved in settlement building or house destruction, or they facilitating war crimes? sure. mean that definition that was created in 1998 is quite broad. it says any, basically any actions directly or indirectly. those are the key words that are in the definition of war crimes in the rome statute maybe may amount to person the prosecution of those involved in it. so it would be, obviously, these really military, political and administrative leadership that has celebrated the creation of the subtle and civil asked by decades. but it could also involve international businesses that are both directly or indirectly with the maintenance of the settlement economy. and we're now at a new, new understanding international law. the businesses may be culpable,
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may be liable for either civil suits or for, or perhaps for war crimes. if they're involved in a manner that winds up violating what are our new understanding or crimes constitutes. so british companies, international companies that are, that are actively engaged in the, in the settlements. you know, please, please keep the warning to fall from the union, leave the parent company of ice cream brand abandoned. jerry is having to apologize and say we oppose a boy called dev estimates. actually they may, they may think those have been injurious for getting them off the war credit liability because they refusing to sell the ice cream now in the legal settlement. sure in if you think in the one, this is a, this is a, a tempest in that in a t i merican ice cream maker is going to withdraw selling ice cream from the, from the settlement. but you can see how the reaction of the israeli government, the president of israel's call this economic terrorism. the foreign minister said
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this is a form of anti semitism. you know, at some point these arguments and the scare tactics are going to sound increasingly follow. the settlements are clearly illegal. i know national lot every single country in the world except and if they are illegal, a flagrant violation, say according to the security council and a war crime, then what are we doing, allowing those 7 goods to come into the or p and market or the north american market, that economic oxygen given to them only allows them to continue to, to flourish their now around 700000 israeli suckers. and somewhere between $250.00 to $300.00 settlements occupied eastern and the west bank. that's the, that's the engine of the occupation. and that's the main reason for the continuation of the occupation. and that's the main obstacle to realizing genuine palestinian self determination which the world says it doesn't favor out. well they
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are in sports competitions. they're in the eurovision song contest. i mean, just to be clear then, isn't it enough tale bennett, a war criminal because he is involved clearly in what you describe as war crimes. the settlements? well, yes. you know, i think, i think the, the stretch of the where the reach of the prosecutors off of the international criminal court would go to it doesn't convict states a convicts individuals. and the reach of the international criminal court would be towards any of the leadership, militarily, political and administrative that have been fostering, encouraging the development of the, of the settlement. well, the, i see obviously more famous for prosecuting a black africans than white people. you believe just very quickly on the pegasus spyware? i think is it your understanding that it could be used against all people to track all people in the territories occupy? it's exciting,
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67 right now. maybe the 1st of all is the way in which of these private israeli and other cybersecurity companies have been able to sell their advanced cyber technology to countries around the world. and put in many authoritarian countries, has many of these companies, countries are able to use this advance of spyware on their own citizens, particularly with respect to political dissidents. and those engaged in critical journalism. that is a, a great breach of both the right to dissent, as well as the right to privacy in a 2nd. you know, it shows that there is virtually no oversight, at least with respect to these really government who has to issue the export licenses to these companies, such as and so to be able to send their spyware abroad. and there's a huge gap with respect to that and perhaps suggest that there's been a fair amount of collusion between the israeli government and these spyware companies. in sending this,
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sending the cyber security surveillance off to companies that israel wants to be able to, to nourish the relationship. but the 3rd big issue, which is the one that has really been covered by these revelations over the past several weeks, is that this, the cyber spyware was developed on the palestinian population over the last 3 and 4 decades. most of these israeli cybersecurity companies at their origins and what is called unit $8200.00, which is the military unit devoted to surveillance of the palestinian population. so what is used on palestinians today is used on world population to moral well, obviously. so group denies any wrong doing and says what it's doing is trying to create a peaceful and well with the visual editor. thank you. my pleasure. after the break, we ask international human rights parcel and if the car, what's driving the global fear of muslim planet,
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all this coming up about to have going on the ground. the what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy foundation. let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. development only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical of time. time to sit down and talk. oh right now there are 2000000000 people who are overweight or obese. it's profitable to sell food that he's 20 and sugary and all the victims. he's not at the individual level, it's not individual willpower. and if we go on believing that will never change that obesity epidemic,
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that industry has been influencing very deeply. the medical and scientific establishment, ah, what's driving the vehicle, its corporate, me. ah, welcome back about when we talk to a u. n. special rebel tour about legible crimes. committed against, predominantly, but by no means exclusively occupied palestinian muslims ever since. 911. the so called war against islam has been arguably waged against the one point. 9000000000 muslims of the world will join me now from washington. d. c is us around if the car international human rights and of the new book fear of muslim planet, global as i'm a phobia in the new world order. thanks so much for coming on, you know, in british t. v. or we see, or when it comes to muslims give me a migrant arriving from countries that have been intervened. in predominantly,
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most of them ones tell me about fear of a muslim planet. well, 1st of all, i've seen it actually the 1st play on the very famous 990 pop rap album here of a black planet by public enemy. and really what it does is it relates to the heart of a lot of what we're seeing in terms of modernist, on the phobia today with the premises or other conservative governments in the west . you know, basically saying that we are going to be taken over by brown again replacing the theory that waited in many parts of the world today that is leading to, you know, genocide levels will be another and them around the world. but it's arguably working. do you think these decades of, i suppose what you'd call propaganda, let alone laws in so called liberal countries like the europe in union and canada say yes, absolutely. i mean, if you look at the right, sort of right wing entrenched nationalism all over the world, whether it's marine,
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france or victor, audubon, an angry or by other than another land, or donald trump. i here in the united states, you know, we've, we've seen this describe the growing up nationalism which in many cases, perpetuated and sort of exacerbated by a, by white supremacists, narratives about you know, brown and black people coming to take over, you know, the majority ideas and so that's what i always like, i like that, you know, even though i write about it on the, when it comes to sort of the underwriting of human beings, or is it going to turn it go into the actually the local term. it's been around since time immemorial from the book of leviticus to show that we are the human race of always the unit to blame other people for the idea deals. and even though might be a time for me today, it's going to be somebody tomorrow. i know somebody else yesterday, and that's why it's important for us to dallas against them wherever you forgot russia as well, which also has a lot similar to the one used to be in britain that promotion of gay rights. but i
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mean them, arguably, as for liberal identity politics, prevail is. do you not think that most muslims, perhaps like most abrahamic judith, jewish and christian believers. that what do you think of their attitude to trans rights l g b t q plus rights and and women rights in terms of equality. you really think that most muslim support l g b t q plus rights money i think most definitely do in terms of protecting the civil and human rights of all people. but again, that sort of getting back into the tro, sort of the, the time of the narrative, the, me, one in, for people, the world that the most then we go in the world and, you know, we don't conflate all christianity or all christians with, you know, some of the more orthodox teaching christianity. and so i'm trying to see that where we are as diverse as everyone else, you know,
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when you talk about racial profiling and listen in the way it laughable because obviously represent every color of the rainbow. you know, here in the united states, for example, one 4th of american muslims are african americans have been here. ships came over the 151600. we have a worth that are arrows again, more and more people in a rural, wrongfully could conflate with almost being arrows are being muslims. you have a 3rd of americans that are from the agents of continent and then you will be avoided europe and latino as well. and so again, the purpose of the book is again to show that, you know, the irrational fear of, you know, in our case, you know, a muslim is coming to take over. western is laughable. as you know, obviously, you know, the historical claims that you know, do the world wide jewish conspiracy or the black folks are brand latino folks are coming to take over the united states. and so we have to look at it in terms of, of anti racism globally. fastest growing religion here, i thought. but i mean,
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i don't sound like steve been and i'm not bidding for a job in trumps. 2024 cabinet. but you don't think that there is an attitude amongst elite and i want to bring the class dimension here that these white working class fundamentalist christians of the american south. they're all the, there's a kind of prejudice against them. why? i think it all comes from, you know, misinformation, a lack of information. you know, obviously when you, when you look at any sort of demographic group, you know, where they are willingly homophobic those white christians in the midwest. polls show. and paul show about muslims that they have use on l. g. b t q writes, not the same as those metropolitan areas. the class is the correlation here, right? but i answered your, your home. it will be a question 2 questions ago. what i'm trying to get out is again, that 70 percent of white from republican voters in the united states that they don't know. and so when you look at 16 or 17 republican presidential candidate to
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really try to sort of out of each other with donald trump, saying that he wants to complete and total muslims from coming into the united states. people like ted cruz and then carson said that they wouldn't allow them to even to come federal judges here in the united states saying that sure, yeah, from the mall of the united states. even though our supremacy club, the constitution states that no other law can be, can do supreme love the land. so again, if it's pandering to a lack of education with information that we've seen. and again, something that we've seen for the last decade here in the united states, obviously with the immigration to be with latino than hispanic time in memorial from the beginning of history with the african american community to them. not only right now, but again the or the 20th century with henry ford and obviously the holocaust and japanese internment is 140000 just being thrown in in german camps. again, this is the next chapter of the right to the united states. and in many parts was of course,
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one could make the point that it is these countries nature nation countries that have often supported arguably muslim groups in muslim nations. there been a lot of allocations, having jo biden's referred to them previously of the supporting financially. certainly those linked to our kinder in isis dash. obviously the majority in enough janice done more recently in syria. does it, or is this missing the point that actually have these western nations have been terribly proved a particular type of muslim because what they want is fights between different brands of islam in the muslim world? well, i mean if you look at the reason the, i mean us and what to support, you know, the majority countries on the 8th and the earth, it's really been for the anti democratic, despotic authoritarian regimes that are cracking down on their own, on their own electric stores the united states in the west really sided with
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whoever is most convenient for them. but again, i think it can, can be underscored enough that everything that we're seeing today in terms of american, it was the policy towards the muslim world debate with some world. it's towards more toward more democratic and more authoritarian and, and that's having a huge impact as well. i mean again, if you in my book, i'm not only highlighting western white, it's on the for the i'm also highlighting eastern pharma phobia we have a 1000000 will turn me can in china, we have me on mar india with a 1000000 of them and pushed into one that age, we have india with the rising rise and authoritarian lurch and they're in there monday and all of his time with them. so again, this is not something that it's supposed to wait for in the west, but again, it's metastasize in many part of the leading to genocide levels. i think obviously me and more and moody publicly deny. deny that. you mentioned
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a 1000000 in internment camps in gene jang. where do you get that figure from a 2018 human rights watch report, united nations or words? again, i can spend an entire interview going over that when i'm trying to show again, is that part of a global problem? right? a lot of folks say, well, you know, it's only happening in the only way, folks in your opinions are americans that are doing it. no, it's a problem for all of us. just like google racism in any of any stripe is a problem. and the human rights or something that we should all be got again, you know, the human rights watch report was based on testimony from sources that have been widely discredited. in fact, by evangelical christians, we've had on this program, people talk exactly about that. doesn't that destroy your case, because what you're actually doing in this book is to is to talk about islam in a non, as a non threatening revolutionary ideology against current neo liberal norms. you talk about donna karen's, are a mango offering clothes for
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a particular class of muslim. that is more modest. don't you really want to turn islam into a thought of friendly capitalism, friendly religion rather than actually as regards supporting what is fundamental, the abrahamic religions which is a, which is a love of people that is a very conflating question that doesn't even really make any sense what i've tried to do is i'm trying to humanize farm and look one to majority of the world that has no exposure to them, right? again, if you look at, you know, 22nd. if you look at, you know, if you look at the images of us in beard bearded men and women covered in hollywood movies and tv shows and you know, the news cat. that's what's leading to a lot of the i'm a phobia that we see today because of the fact again that most people, when you don't have exposure to anything, you're obviously going to make your decisions about based on the narrative that you are barton on a daily basis and so again,
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i think it's important for people on of all different, especially those who look like don't believe like us or from different part of the world. but again, it is important for us to understand in a global context, global village is shrinking on a daily basis. and it's important for us to understand the things that happen. world way can have an impact on us also. and again, it's important for us to get out of our entrenchment and to look at things from more humanistic leader. the leads do have things to fear about rather than a muslim planet, a revolutionary abrahamic planet. we knew about the great revolutionary catholicism and latin america that fought against the us power structures in the military industrial complex. we know that islamic fighters in yemen, a fighting in the world's worst humanitarian crisis against the military industrial complex as seen by the end. again fe, you're not taking away some of the power of abrahamic religion to be able to fight elite power. i mean, 1st,
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i don't understand your shorthand to believe i don't know what that means, but when i'm, when i'm seeing that, yeah, there are issues here. but again, look at global politics. you know, from different contexts we can conflate, you know, 196 countries on the earth. 57 with most of the majority, wants to cherry pick and pick one or 2 isolated countries as indicative of a global trend is actually part of part of the same problem. again, you know, we don't, we don't want, you know, we don't want white people. those because the version on brown folks, i can see sort of like a general edition and a lot of the framework questions that are sort of pandering that seems sort of millionaires. i'm trying to do that. you know, everybody is a human being. we all have different countries in the west, mom in europe with different than that. i'm in the middle east or south asia, we're in australia and we're leaving out. you can see what the global lead and the monolithic entity does not want to get to these anywhere in the world. and that's part of the, the book is to show that, you know, there is no, you know,
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monolithic entities. and so, because of that, we look at things for the fact as opposed to trying to catch us version, you know, in general nation san africa. thank you. my pleasure. thank you. that's ever the show back on monday to investigate class war in a cornish fishing village in the bath to winning film bait until then keep in touch my social media and let us know if you think the so called mainstream media is unfair. and it's reporting of muslim ah, driven adrian shaped by those vision in me dares
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thing. ah, we dare to ask in ah, enormous protests raging in bronze for the weekend straight people pending their fury at covey health passes and mandatory vaccination. also in the headlines here, one are you the friend charles, so i agree of what they see is an on told and cordial a cordial understanding of the france becomes the only you countries not exempt from corona virus. foreign gina rules. in that case, we ask people in paris for that thought on the move thing is for nothing else
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