you can convert into cash quite easily. to keep in mind, no, i mean to inflation better watch guys reported me anything with the with dime action or tenancy. we're going underground 10 years to the day since london police shot and killed mar dugan catalyzing. the biggest nationwide uprising across britain for a generation coming up in the show member of parliament inform a chair of scotland yards operation tried and advisory group claudia web on whether all it takes is a spark for underlying grievances to ignite the game. and the inspiration behind to

steve mcqueen's groundbreaking, small accent ology alex, we'd all tells us how classism is the only schism plaguing british society in a country where black people are still 18 times more likely to be stopped by police . all the more coming up in today's special edition of going undergrad, but 1st it's been 10 years since british man mark doug was killed in police custody, which spot the largest nationwide rides in the u. k. c. in, in 30 years now a decade later, u. k. prime minister, both johnson has proposed a new plan to tackle crime in the country where black people are statistically more likely to be arrested. joining me now from lester is ambivalent stories in the form, a chair of the met police is operation tried and independent advisory group. claudia web quoted, thank so much for coming on. i can't believe it's 10 years obviously. i mean, how have the police powers changed during those 10 years? we now have official reports saying, the metropolitan believes scotland yard here is a, institutionally not only racist, but the institutionally corrupt. well, you know,

it has been 10 years and mom should be live today that field time. it's usually in the u. k. i think sadly 10 years on for me to little progress has been made to end up being racial and ethnic inequality. criminal justice. i mean some of the vacation and in the u. k. need get strengths. why black lives matter? important and why do i need been so necessary? life has been, have been the magically undervalued to love, and suddenly can use all that we need to strengthen our we so to end to be just going to so now really is the kind of the end to

be class racial inequalities, which of course exist around the world and we've seen that quite clearly quite starkly. and we also see that we have not made much progress in all time. and this is the connected need here when it comes to the police and you know, not even just 10 years law tokens, death, but actually 40 years since this common report on 1981 . and because it brings no joy to the situation and i'm sure you must know joy for the family of mark who was, i believe unjustly, killed by police in

a failed operation. of course, you know, at that time i know a lot about what happened because i was the chair of operation try to, i mean, you monitoring your monitoring doug. and at the time, it has to be said that obviously by an $8.00 to $2.00 majority, he was judged to have been lawfully killed by metropolitan police. what did it mean that you were monitoring him if you want to show him at the time that he was killed? one of the monitoring at the time, the depletion operation, which was operation, tried it. when we went up and was on vacation as part something called operation b, which was run by a question, tried in a unique in the metaphor, to please as you know, the chair of the question tied to independent advisory. it was that community as a community way back to the big 990, that we set up

a population trying to tackle the portion of government on the black community. please think about with diane and nothing was set constitution to we stop, please try to just that and it took for us to get the police to understand that you can't deal with black people as a criminal. you have to address the fact that the black communities are dying proportionately by the gun, murders feud by drugs. and the police took all the time to get a right. and then the fragility of the relationship between the police out of the community was borne out by the shooting dead. he died needlessly. and she's not a guy. i've the chair operation tried and i know all to well, that when the head is trying at the time,

we're traveling to the sea and arrive at the scene in relation to moscow, i know too well within the sock. i remained in the by my side, away from the drugs. obviously, drugs, i don't know, it has an afghan, extend. my lease one's about this. about a drug issue was that the police believe that the car was carrying a weapon. reality is that moto ended up dead, he died give me just me because the, the, when there was no gun, a fire from the weapon that he was supposedly carried. and then no, no, no, no, no of him throwing back weapon away. i mean, that whole thing, the kind of justice from the had was, was

a justice because he wasn't, it wasn't dealt with properly. you should still be in like 2 days. his family should be getting an apology and i the main main at the failure place to address this what i need basically coming up the cruise. and that's the problem. but of course, so when it came to the killing itself, journalistic like myself were given information from the independent police complaints commission. briefing us doug was shot, shot at police to some gun battle. they wanted b, b. c footage, censored at the time. how do you explain all of this in the aftermath of all the shooting that would mean nationwide uprisings across the country and angle? yeah, i mean this is still full of misinformation that was going on at the time to please make separate sessions about month remaining testing to the median being

stored open and the fire shocked caught on the media store. we did use in about of to my explain them out to you. this is where the, the, the collective responsibility police along the media plays out because it didn't mention about the nation of the sheets up and bought a guideline. the wrench, killing people openly because the media now and this was make information and it came from them. so i'm the store. why? why glee and i mean, and in fact, where they were trying to say they were trying to justify and why mom was shot

dead. and that can be no justification. because it's very clear that the officer shot trust. i mean back, not even short 1st. from what i was told, a lie was being told by the head of the tribes at that time whatever the gun was beside me. so i'm not even left the cold. soc where, where they got the bush was shot. i think the professional opinion time that was not the opinion that would then we'd fluid into the quest that found that was lawfully. and i think and week after a week the independent police complaint commission issue the statement, but can see a may have inadvertently given weekly information to journalist following the sheet . ok. maybe with an accident that they said it should cross the deck.

resigned the head of scotland yard is obvious. you mean the controversy about her policing officer ever? od demonstration, visual for her is be in georgia. i had them in as, as killed in south london. there's been so many different contrivances should, should she resign? you know, when you have a police in the, in the u. k, continuing to fail, somebody has to take responsibility for that failure. and we had so many different scenarios where the levels of institutional racism remains why with the lack of priest fillasy and where police in has been out of control and the, the community that has been the black community in the car

and in the other community more quote, the more why, well, what happened in the, in the active off of this, they were killing by my cases under way that cases under way i should but why we got to but, you know, do i think somebody will be, how can you recall that custody was one in charge of trying to, well, she's had a low for female police commissioner. somebody need to tell you possibility. and i think on this occasion, she ought to possibility for not being forced into the 21st 10 p for not affecting the failing that are happening. but of course, you know, i don't really want to hold responsibility. just one person i'm,

i'm talking about a whole and that is failing. but can i just can i just very briefly ask you, finally, i've got to go your case with cps. but the head of the c. p. s, at that time was cast alma and overnight court were alleged to be dealing with collective punishments to people involved in the uprising morris. johnson, who is mayor of london, arguably got political capital after his cleaning the streets after the uprising. what are the political repercussions of the uprising that followed the mark dugan demonstration? i mean, is burst johnson prime minister today, probably because of what happened. i think the end of the day, the community respond to the fail. it was something that really reflects that. there was a need to ask them laughing terms is the why it for the why fi, where people were,

can be heard. by the way, was the pete the police handled the situation? there was also a sense of loan, which can't be common sense because there was a intervention by, in terms of the criminal justice system to address that issue. but the reality didn't, the aftermath of kate was very poor. the family that went to the police station to find receipt, no losses at 300 people when peacefully to the police station to see also. and there was a sense of frustration with the way in which the black community was complete and the victim and reality remained. to be de nothing trained for to use all government forms and from 1981 case

of inappropriate police. and that's why my niece and the aftermath of what happened to joe floyd became a global for not of them, but a u. k. couple that hasn't yet gone away. chloe web, thank you. after the break from the $981.00 bricks in uprising to an m. b. the inspiration behind 115 mcqueen small acceptor, so it gives us his take on the nationwide uprising, catalyzed by the london police killing of mark doug. and 10 years ago today, all the symbol coming up and bought to have going underground ah, ah, lose

the welcome back and we spoke to the member of parliament and next chair suantlan yards operation trident advisory group. claudia web, about the 10 year anniversary, the police killing dog in which catalyzed an uprising across britain are seen for a generation. someone who was jailed up in the seminal uprising that preceded it. bricks and 1981. and the thatcher is award winning author and inspiration behind when esteem queen small ex film and soldiers alex wheedle,

he joins me now from the buzzard. thanks so much alex for coming on. i got to take a graduation from being a long list of this diverse book awards became more is that's about 1761. you make of the legacy of the, the greatest uprising for a generation the anniversary which falls today after the killing of doug. well it concerns me because government boys, johnson government seems to be we play in the areas of previous governments. and so just racism. and i mean pretty patel less allowed in crowds in the same bu black players. and this is going to be angry. and so many young people that i work with, i know, and so it feels that they kind of 2 sided, well, we didn't mind to one. so 2 senses,

sweating of anger among black people right now because of the policies are these governments, i mean, we're not too far away from the wind stand as well as the government says they're going to speed up the wind rush payments. that was a big scandal for our international viewers about the black people who lived here for decades, who suddenly finding themselves being deported pretty. tell the current home secretary said the black lives matter. protests were dreadful mentioning the prime minister boris johnson. i know it's something that you've talked about in the pause operations swamp in the eighty's. yeah, i mean, the johnson stop and search is loving. he's used the phrase, it's a loving, stood by and wants to increase the levels of stop and search. i mean, will that lead to another uprising? i believe so, because goes where procreate mostly. he's never witnessed the experience of

young people. so, i mean, look to split into uncle william's just last year when she was travelling with her and she had a child, you know, back and she was a man, how do we mean baby was inside actually and that was great in the movie. and so when boys johnson talks, we have no idea what he's referring to because our experience is pretty dreadful. and so for him to come out of those kind of statements and display angus, the black community in this country. now i know you contributed to the documentary by the queen about the new cross fire. we got to go into a piano all of that, but that was a scene as a racist attack. lethal races attack to kill 13 people that went on and on the inquiries at an open verdict, monk dug was killed 10 years ago. today. he was lawfully killed,

according to an a to to majority verdict. so for me and this will kill bird. people repeating themselves, i mean, i know schools of black people will be losing their lives in greece custody way, by the way, back to the fifties and sixties. and it keeps happening. and police officers seem to be getting this allowance to deal with black lives community and to my memory. i don't know he's actually been calling me to death in custody, overlap us. and so this is why i so much anger pulls out on the streets when, whenever this occurs. and so we don't think even now we do full details. we have no trust in the police, especially the prison come on and question the way that she remains open policy.

and so we just kind of printing off again. are we going to go $15.00. why? so why? the waterfall where peace was killed and then we had 2011 with mom. and so when, when i mean, i'm not saying the boys, johnson is a secret. malcolm ex insurrection rate, but then you saying that increase step and search increased? i mean, you services, i mean slash way, 372000000 pounds, a national budget where doug was killed short, killed by police, 85 percent cut in services there. i mean, you don't think the government secretly once in uprising. i mean, do you think that's like do because they're playing today based on the last election you lost out to the conservatives. so in my opinion,

they all play into the audience trying to run. pop is gracious. we do believe that is government issue for it cannot be cultural was time for me is unnecessary, shouldn't gotten like, i mean these last lessons because operations 1981 and that we saw in bricks in april. and, you know, they could all say trying to focus on crime, but they sweep on innocent people in bo, the national professional probation that is the 81. and they were like, was do the same thing once more and how good i was in community and was small community was to be invited to commence on. a crime has happened to me in a neighborhood because they, especially when the police and 40 and so really it doesn't ring them any friends.

and so i believe that any operation they want to undertake it should be intelligence led rather than just randomly stock. and the boy on the street seems to me, but ok, we are an artist. so this is go to the music as we and that's, that's about culture after all, and being censorship of drill music, types of grey your and establish with me guys. so you're going to say, molly and steel balls are better than what's happening in south london and up and down the country. but what role does music play and will it play? if indeed, this summer is the tinderbox, that you prepare to be saying is when you refer to my own generation, $9.00 to $991.00 and in music weaknesses. not just amusing, even alan called us. i mean, you mentioned still close. i remember the sleeve, the album showed on crumbling,

kind of pride community was crumbling down. and so i remember the old one with a black clutch, you know, why? and it does have a tremendous impact on always be elements in music kind of stepping out because this question on how young people are really feeling deprived they feel marginalized. they go into a base west and there's no way that and gone and consult them underground. young people with sort of listens away and is to be influenced by it. so they're going to be very careful about trying to control it. you are, you are lucky enough to go to jail and learn about james and 80 in prison. and i don't sure about this generation. i mean it's ron if there's been a coup in, hey g, whilst all this is going on a plan damage and the disturbances that are expected this summer in britain. i mean,

yes, young people link all this together. i really hope so. i mean, we were news away and we kind of knew was going on around the world. i mean lucy slept because so many singers spoke about and related new stories about what's happening in mozambique and go to south africa and so on. when young people today, they're not really aware of what's going on in ohio. not as much as i was aware of now. no. so my goodness. in ireland, when i was a young man, one knew about that we complain about it and so on. duty or my generation say hey steve, the youngest and say look, what's going on here. and it reminds me actually was president radians invasion of think it was and again to be and that they felt they had a right to do that is always been the case,

isn't it would be kind of relations stalking over the younger junior nations, thinking that they can do what they like, we've been punitive and sometimes it comes back to them in the was in that got to start and so for so you know, we have to be careful here. well, they are trying to achieve and this should be encouraging for them. what you're doing well, inquiry is a better stopped in british role. the british role in iraq, afghanistan alleged war crimes. the eighty's though, i mean there was the i m f back james callahan in labor and then they had my word to as an avowed socialist against sharing those eighty's, that sort of period. we have a kiss tom, or who championed overnight chords for activists of to the uprising following the dugan merger by police 10 years ago. you think it's difficult, we have pressing the dick you mentioned earlier the from the metropolitan police,

who apparently was one of the main offices behind sean sha them. and as is who is shot dead by police and kiss tom who is the c b s person there who didn't continue the prosecution and it was, it was it's scarce tama the neighbor, the opposite leader who says 10 year sentences for war, memorial, vandalism, presumably varying to some statuary, this taken down recently is much less hope now than there was back for me personally. yes, because i do not believe chris will be to be in position, especially off the murder and the man outside. so well to say she should not be in place as cold as flat. she was cold when. ready decision making and with regards to cynthia, it's donna, i'm labeled for food, but still have that trust me. and i mean,

just the other day it was due by le house and collins and boys. johnson's for his multitude are lies that he speaks in the collins and yet we come back her. and so i really don't think he's a strong man. we need to confront because i was in some whole into account. i mean, even boys johnson himself. he once said a few years ago that from africa will be much good to she was sitting charge. i mean for me, that is incendiary is blaine to races, stephen, and yet hardly anybody even knew supporters could count for that. but you seem to get away with it. i know it's going to challenge him and he has is why we west and as always be the case in the u. k. and so we, the last job we come in and so on. they not only have to talk to, but after why is wing press on the daily telegraph the,

the times and so on. and that's in case too much of a mountain decline. johnson would say he was defending them women to whether nicole received and he's lying with alex. we do. thank you. thank you very much. that's it for the show will be back on saturday. 5070. as the us president johnson signed before flag gulf of tonkin resume having a waiver, tens of millions, dead wounded or displaced through vietnam, low and cambodia. until then keep in touch, right, social media and let us know whether you think the issues raised, whether getting involved, doug and 10 years ago have been late arrest. ah, okay, let's go and jerry, here's a country that is suffering from inflation. they have a huge population of 200000000 or more very young people that are already online

already on their funds. and the government is not really able to crack down, let's say, as you could see in china safe and all those things together. and you have a breakdown, you have a breakthrough, you have the big point, standard emerging. and that's so exciting because it means that the world will be bored again. and it looks like it's going to happen in nigeria. look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings. accept where's the short or conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at the point obviously is too great truck, rather than fear i would like to take on various jobs with artificial intelligence real summoning the demon.

a robot must protect his phone. existence with the israel therefore, has struck a ground targets in southern lebanon as a week of shimmering tensions in the middle east. results in the exchange of fire. to cover up or not debate rages over how effective wearing a medical mask is in controlling the spread of current of virus. sweden dropped the requirement before recording 0 new coven cases. while the u. s. says it's crucial to wear one. now our panel discuss the conflicting advice and they told us to wear the mask, then we won't have locked down. so now we're doing locked down. it's one of the risk reduction measures. we need several helper. thank the behavior ah.