we choose to look for common ground in the view and announces an official intervention over claims of excessive force and brutality by the police in berlin against anti lockdown protest. but a police union says the demonstrators themselves were far from the full. i am sure that my colleagues asked isn't accordance with the law. in addition, more than 60 police officers were injured. they clearly did not stumble but sorted during the protest. the permission for coven vaccinated citizens of san marino to enter the block, leave most stock behind, as they've received russia. sputnik v vaccine, which is not yet approved in the european union. and the biden administration faces backlash from a coalition of human rights groups over harsh us immigration policies which the

media face silent about on the very issue with a flam donald coming for your world news headlines for this. our stay tuned for more just about 60 minutes. ah, so welcome to sophie commissioner, is me sophie shepard and i said, we're hardly been done with a cold 19 condemning. but scientists, a warning that something far worse is around the corner. to talk about this, i'm joined by professor peter calling. you was actually, it was vision and clinical microbiologist and a world harris organization expert on antibiotic resistance. professor peter calling you an infectious diseases physician and clinical microbiologist

experts to the world health organization on antibiotic resistance. great to have you on our show today. welcome by having the right to tell us what is in grief happening with antibiotics. are they not working anymore? 7 why will anybody still working but less so than before? because it's super bugs in antibiotic resistance. and what that means is if we have a really important infection and we treat it more and more, the antibiotics that work, so we have increasing death and increasing what we call morbidity or suffering. so people are in hospital for longer and have more complications. so i supervise and the spread of those, anybody resistant bacteria and the genetic material that's responsible for that resistance is a real problem. because that means more and more copy treated properly. and there's more and more debts and suffering as a result. so if i understand correctly at some point, if we don't do anything or more correctly, if we don't come up with anything,

health care, we'll be kind of thrown back to decades and we'll have what, like typhus. what exactly are we staring at here? well, if you look at the time before we had and you bought x, the not a twenty's for instance. if you look at data from numerous countries, if you had i series infection in your blood, like the pneumonia, there was about a 70 or 80 percent mortality within 30 died so high this rights. but anti bodies came along with penicillin, for instance. and that right went down to about 10 percent saying with golden stack, very common in fiction, in people's blood, without antibiotics id percent, mortality with anti bodies, much, much lower, maybe 15 percent. and a call i a very common germ, that's a common cause to be rechecked depictions and bloodstream infections. again, if you're going antibodies, the mortality, most 90 percent of people survive. but if you don't have anybody, then

a lot of people die. and a lot of people, even if they get better for weeks or months rather, they get better quickly. and so anybody resistance is a real problem because we can go back to what they call the pre a body theora. we effectively become post antibody and it's, you know, a lot of countries, particularly countries like india, china developing countries or low income countries that have particularly put water supply, the resistance level. there are astronomical, you know, the common bacteria, like a call i, i, for practical purposes, i'm treatable. now if you just have your tract infection, you probably get better most of the time by yourself. but if you've got a serious infection, a bone infection, bloodstream infection, then you have a lot of dis where otherwise treatable or preventable when we had anybody that works for her. i'm to buy out a efficiency is declining because of antibiotic over use. why? this isn't a problem, so it's

a problem because antibiotics is such wonderful drugs. i'm an infectious diseases physician. i treat people who are very sick. and one of the joy of my mission is you have people seriously ill. you give them a drug called an antibiotic and they get better very quickly, you know, often, you know, 5 days, 7 days, that's very different to a lot of other things in medicine where you have to stay on grabs. so everybody said terrific drugs. the trouble is they're so good and they now so inexpensive, we overuse them. people have for instance, a throat infection, judo of ours, and we often get them at the body or a bit of a call where the antibiotics don't make any difference. so there's a huge other be used that anybody can people but also with agriculture, it just, you know, to chickens, for instance, to make them grow faster. and all of that combines to mean there's a lot more resistance or super bugs traveling between people to people traveling from, you know, animals to people,

buy food and water. so we get rising rising levels that anybody resistance getting worse and worse. and a lot of that is to do with the use of anti virus, particularly, and people in hospitals, in the community, but also in the agricultural sector. and then what's very important is how that spread from person to person or from water people or from animals to water. and then the people spread of resistant bacteria is making a much worse and the worst your resources in a country such as a whole water supply, sanitation, the worst the spread is. so the more soup about you have. so how exactly are. 7 on to buy arctic resistant bug spreading, i mean has this process accelerated? what are the observations of the past 2 years? well, i think it is accelerating. now, different germs spread different way. for instance, the pneumonia judah, and what we call a caucus is mighty spread from person to person by being close to them. coughing sneezing because one person sits in that's right. and is there,

i'm lucky enough to develop pneumonia with it. i get very see the same for the golden staff. several worries, jim is the people who are close to get that skin to skin or touching benches off and that spread that way. but other germs, such as the call i, which is a common bacteria, calling your ear infections. but women but also is a common coding bloodstream infection. what we call the senior, that's fred by numerous otherwise it can be directly person to person. but more often is what we call pico material. you know, your bases when you go to the toilet, that can be directly spread to people, but also through water, contaminated water. people then take the water and they come into their mouth, the germs, it's in their val and most of the time it may not matter if i get a defective gallbladder, or a uni check, the patient and it can matter. and also if certain supervisors develop include animals, then when you process the animal it gets onto the neat. and then if you ingest role

or the cross contaminate your letters or tomatoes in your kitchen, then you get it in your mouth and a super inside there. and with the reason we know that's a problem and you get a lot through the mouth, is we did a study in australia where we looked at a whole lot of medical students and nurses before they went on a holiday to asia and numerous other places. they carried very little supervisor, but when i came back, talk to them or carry a call. i resist and supervise that i just from interacting with people, say water, for instance, going to have bugs in it, including golden staff, on occasion, fresh board. i can have numerous bugs and you can see in some situations, for instance, in asia with aquaculture, you have fish in ponds where they actually put in animal and human species, sometimes also antibiotics. and then when those bishop taken out, they coated with a supervisor, they can then spread not any in the local environment,

it can spread globally. you know, you can have super bugs, you know, picked up in china, the philippines that are imported into other countries and spread. and we look at what happened in england and around the world, including a strike many years ago. there was a particular germ called that all resistance called the new daily. the tell i be like, i was named because it was 1st out in india, but that was resistant to most antibiotics we've got. and people from india who travel they have wrote affecting linda because then cross infection or infection in hospitals in england, but the same germ kind. it was right. we had a case of somebody who's gone to india plus the surgery earliest requesting surgery went wrong. and i ended up in any chance to k unit, came back to astray and i needed to go to the hospital and i know they had a job on them that i picked up in india, presumably in the hospital can be in the environment that was resistant to every antibiotic we had in the urine. so these germs, do get onto aeroplanes,

7 or sevens, and travel all around the world with people who then can spread it in a new environment where i live or where the home it's. and the way i see this is a multi layered problem because i thought onto biopics were needed by humans to treat infections. but now we're talking about antibiotic over using farming. great . can the food industry lay off using guns, biopics where they're animals and you know, still be able to sustain the level of wood production that we need? so my belief is there, you know, i've been involved in this for 20 or 30 years and the argument is, although we can't grow chickens without antibiotics. well, that's not true. anybody do my animals grow a little bit faster, but my knees groaning relatively full conditions. if you grow them in good condition, good having good. everybody start like that much difference. it's only when the

housing conditions and all that, it makes a bit of difference. but again, studies in australia, but particularly large studies in europe and in, in the us. the ones are, they show that when you withdraw, you bought it, you can still produce chickens at the same, right? the same wipes in same period of time, you have to do a bit of modification, how you grow them, which you can do it, because there's lots of places now that can grow chickens in particular, without $8080.00 bodies. we using people use that all for the entire period. so while it can be a bit more difficult, it can be done. cattle or instance, if you put them in, in open pasture cattle, which is what we mainly grow into stria. they don't. but they actually take longer to get bigger because they're rating ross. if you put him in a lot, you can need the bodies because i'm thinking because they get by sometimes you get infections and they live. but instead of growing them for a 100 days,

if you buy them for 103 dies, in other words, grow them slightly slow up. you can do it without any bought it. so yes, that can be a lot more difficult at times to not use anybody, but you can get the same results if you change your practices. and you know, basically look around all welfare a bit better. my own view is if you use a lot of antibiotics to grow animals, there's a problem with animal welfare. the housing conditions are not, as they should be. they died is not as good as they should be. because if you do it properly, you use a lot less antibiotics. and another example is a no way where they were using our particular group or anybody's lines, but they're salmon. but what they did, instead, they produced vaccines. and by giving the vaccines to the simon, they managed to drop the antibodies each by about 99 percent and got the same results. so you can achieve good food production, healthy food, without using antibiotics or using a lot less. if you modify your practices and use otherwise as a professor,

we're going to take a short break right now and when we're back, we'll continue talking to professor peter calling the own and infectious diseases physician and clinical microbiologist. stay with us. the ah it doesn't look like this was of off the old you actually are 0. so can you through that actually use them she,

she said to bill me out with your budget that i would continue to tell you because it was in the each came from a credit issued by both of us in so long ago. humor was the domain of social critique and a means for us to laugh at ourselves. and the comic was the person who had the guts and skill to say what all of us might have been thinking. this is no longer the case, it would see now, humor is just another political weapon. and you know, it's not very funny. the british and american government sivilton being accused of destroying lives in their own interests. what you see in this,

these techniques is the state devising message to end to essentially destroy personality of an individual lifetime. means this is how one doctors, theories were allegedly used in psychological warfare against the prisoners deemed a danger to the state. that was the foundation for the method of psychological interrogation, psychologic tortures, disseminated within the us intelligence community, and worldwide among allies for the next 30 years, to the victim say they still with the consequences today the and we're back with professor peter calling you on an infection physician and

clinical microbiologist, an expert to the world, has organization on antibiotic resistance. professor in general, right to humans, use more antibiotics or animal farm animals, many who needs to climb down on usage 1st. well, the biggest volume of anybody in the world is using animals about 80 percent by volume of all the antibiotics use in the world. i used in chickens peaks and kaos now and that's just what's, what's most countries fine. if i actually look at the amount of use, so that is way must be anybody used the way most of the to be produced because the type of antibodies they use in animals is very similar to what you're doing. animals, even though they got different names and often medical doctors know what i mean because they, they different that has the same effect in people. a good example is a drug used to be used as well. they call growth, promote or in other was just was there an antibody,

just my chickens robot that hold i have a pass and now that's not used in people, but it's the same type of drug as a drug. we are using people frequently all around the world bank. and by using that drug chickens and pigs, you produce drugs co bunch b, r a, your bank of marsh richardson in progress. they come across the people to try be and they got and cause infection. all the resistance drain could transferred to the ones you know in human bow. so what happens in one sector can transfer to another state. sometimes it takes a while, but it happens and there's numerous examples how it's happened. and that's why we need to be judicious with our use of antibodies everywhere. in paper, we use nature use list. hospitals. we need to use lists using sparingly, are better infection control. so we don't spread infection, but exactly the same in the cultural industry because it's also in their interest, do not use too many antibodies because they run out of the body when they have to

treat sick animals. so it's in all our interests to decrease. anybody use and to stop the spread of the super bugs, because we stop the spreading people in the hospital. we use less anti bikes and better results. the people jacked me the same it culture. so it's good for agriculture. and equally then you get less cross over from the agricultural sick often by water to people and vice versa. because with control did better. now i'm thinking right humans once invented antibiotics, can't, would you do it all over again and invent? i don't know like a super antibiotic that would help us deal with this super bugs. well, we can, but every time we do it bugs, one step ahead or not fall behind us and produce resistance. there's no antibiotic resistance. and the interesting thing about antibiotics, penicillin, we didn't invent, we found, and it's produced by phone guy. and so they a lot of antibiotics and naturally out there in the environment. things that are

similar. so i've a june of already learn to. i don't want to be killed by this anybody. so there's natural protection out there in the environment. and what we do when we use the anti bodies, we actually then give an advantage to the germ, the bacteria that already got that resistance. we multiply and high numbers and then it spreads around in people in our country and, and then eventually traveled internationally. so most of the resistance is out there isn't just, you know, suddenly as a new mutation it often is, resistance genes are out there for other purposes. and then in fact, is there and multiplied up so that that has an advantage by not being killed by the antibody abuse. it multiplies to really high numbers compared to the one field and then is much more able to spread to everyone else face therapy. there is the thing where we use a virus that it's certain bacteria instead of antibiotic that just killed bacteria and marks. and that sounds like a very refreshing alternative to on to biopics,

as it's far from being mainstream. well, it is far from adstream. i think russia are in the crime. my understanding is that a lot of research and this in the past and fight there would be pages of viruses and i particularly get him to certain bacteria, kill them. and in fact, in australia are no way about 20 years. ago why we, for instance, what we told type of fingerprinted golden staff was to use 5 is that you know what number 87 would kill certain bacteria so we would 9 bacteria. so in theory yes, very good. and i think it is a reason to advance it. the only thing about barges just like antibodies, you can develop resistance to it, and it doesn't work against every talk bacteria. it's selective, which is good. but it also means you can have the same problem with it works for a while and it doesn't work because the bacteria develop resistance to the edge. but parges, i think something we need to develop more because in some ways you can develop

quickly and utilize quickly. but yeah, so far i haven't reached the same level of development as dr. chemicals have particularly modifications of antibiotics to try and do the resistance, but it's an area where, where i think we need lots of work. and i think there's a lot of experience in russia. ukraine is my understanding where we and you know, other countries should be on the learn a lot from what's been done in the past. so such therapy seems to be more custom tailored to the exact harmful bacteria that i have in my body. can there be and destroy scales wash therapies, like we have with unter biopics? well in theory i think they could be because we know, for instance, that certain badges feel golden staff or different bride, and they call i and every other bacteria. so yes, i think they can, i understand one of the problems with 5 star beat off was the 1st time, but then it doesn't work the 2nd time in the same posting. you have different fonts,

for instance. so i think it's got a lot of potential, and it is an area that we need to develop because it's a different lanes of killing bacteria than what we're doing now. and very selective . one of the advantages of antibiotic by q of about tyria and most of them don't have in our kidneys or lever. and this is saying with the very selective is which bacteria they go into, which means hot build cells, one cells not damaged by it, but it's just not so bacteria which is what we want, something very selective. so basically we need a lot more research and development done, and the more super bucks we have, the more important to look at other alternatives. and fives therapy is one of those alternatives. so the new super bugs that we're talking about, they're resistant, warranted by out. it's what are they exactly, are they new diseases? all diseases upgraded? well, they are all diseases caused by bacteria with known about for

a long period of time. but now those back to read don't respond to the drugs, randy barracks, we used to kill them. so the problem is, it's all diseases with all bacteria that no longer killed by the drugs. so that's why we've got to come up with the new drugs, new antibiotic, or fudge therapy, or something else that might kill them, or sometimes antibody therapy is use, but whatever we use, we basically need to do things. bacteria multiplying up an overwhelming the body and killing the hardest to make them very steep and fudge therapy, anybody. and he bought anti body therapy. in other words, things produced by watch those appeal bacteria are all different wise. have tried to treat the super bugs, but none of them. so 5, have been a panacea or a complete answer. but the other report being we tend to, we tend to be somewhat overwhelmed. i think in countries i will come up with a new drug and that'll fix the problem. the basic problem is infection control and prevention. we have to stop these bags from spreading because we get more effects

and more save more lives by stopping the spread, which is often not very high tech. it's basic like, good was a good sanitizing watching your hands off and that's not done. and we, instead they go, look, we want to magic till the coolest, when we would get much more effect and much more prevention, if we just stop the bug spreading as much in the 1st place. so how contagious and dangerous can an antibiotic resistance bug be? i mean, what we have right now is we're having a situation with a virus which isn't treated by antibiotics and it is quiet bad, but it's not the end of the world bad. well, none of this is end of the world. i mean, you know, people before antibiotics were found, they would die very frequently, but not everybody would die. most people who got a new fix, you got cells, l n, y cells alone. antibodies do a lot to kill bacteria, just be anybody still. so it's really making sure you look at your body. it's when

you get burned and your breach your skin bugs in. if you type, you know, put shirts down people, hospital bugs get through a barrier that would normally stop them. so a lot of the basics of infection, not doing things to people that make the most susceptible join fiction. if we can do that, there's obviously times where we can't do it. so a lot of the things we have to do, i think the basics. but on top of that, we do need to develop new drugs, new ways of combating the germ itself cove. it is a virus that, you know would be nice if we had any virals that were very effective against them. but it's the same, even in height, i believe, which is of ours. we have very effective drugs, but you can get resistance to it. fun guy which are different to back to your call is now more and more lung infections, particularly people with their immune system depressed. and again, we can get resistance. so that's another example where we used and you found was widely performing. and particularly in holland, they found that some of those back of those fund guy caused infections in people when they came here that don't respond to the standard drugs. bacteria are more of

an issue because they more prevalent and we've got more drugs to kill them. that's why we call them and the body. but the other brought it to him and he, microtubules cover drugs. it kill viruses. he'll bacteria or any parent friday, or any parasitic drugs, but also any fun going on. so there's a why gamble of anti, what we call anti microbial resistance, because every drug we use to kill either a virus that you're a fungus, all of them you can get resistance in the 1st place or develop. and then that could spread to other people and the problem, the dresser, thank you so much for this wonderful. inside to the world of antibiotics, you know, i'm thinking scientists are saying we're saying for like decades that they can demick is imminent. no one would listen and look at us now, so i really hope that the co condemning will give them a meant him to more action on the global health crisis brought. thanks

a lot for this wonderful interview. good luck with everything. good. thank you. like the one the make no, certainly no borders under the number please emerge . we don't have authority. we don't actually the whole world needs to take action and be ready. people are judge, you know, crisis and we can do better. we should be better. everyone is contributing each in our own way,

but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenges to response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are together in the ah, me. okay, let's go to nigeria, here's

a country that is suffering from inflation. they have a huge population of 200000000 or more very young people that are already online already on their phones. and the government is not really able to crack down, let's say is you could see in china and all those things together. and you have a breakout, you have a breakthrough, you have the big point, standard emerging. and that's so exciting because it means that the world will be born again. it looks like it's going to happen in nigeria. it's actually foster metal. it's not loser for europe sandwich tonight. checks out the the, you know, mean we just would you cash or vision composure else not to throw which kind of 3 another bunch of recross motions much the

the head board posts. no doubt you stormed less your mac. you mean we at the when you buy key day and immunity proper stick excel, you have 10 of his very own lions. you save them from death a few years ago. and recently he decided to talk about them on his youtube channel . the aspiring youtube bloggers, toughest job is sneaking a chair into the enclosure. she has much more news, i mean, but here's the chairman's tradition. we have all the.