or the antibiotics now work. so we have increasing depth and increasing what we call morbidity or suffering. so people are in hospital for longer and have more complications. so i supervise and the spread of those anti body resistant bacteria and the genetic material that's responsible for that resistance is a real problem, because it means more and more copy treated properly. and there's more and more debts and suffering as a result. so if i understand correctly at some point, if we don't do anything or more correctly, if we don't come up with anything, health care and we'll be kind of thrown back to decades and we'll have what, like type list. what exactly are we staring at here? well, if you look at the time before we had you bought, it's not a twenty's. for instance, if you look at data from numerous countries, if you had a serious infection in your blood like the pneumonia, there was about a 70 or 80 percent mortality within 30 died so high this rights. but anti bodies

came along with penicillin, for instance. and that death, right, went down to about 10 percent saying with golden stack, very common in fiction, in people's blood, without antibiotics id to say, mortality with anybody, much, much lower, maybe 15 percent, and a call i a very common june. that's a common as close to be rechecked infections and bloodstream infections. again, if you're going antibodies, the mortality, most 90 percent of people survive. but if you don't have anybody, then a lot of people die and a lot of people, even if i get a sick, 4 weeks or months, rob and they get very quickly. and so anybody resistance is a real problem because we can go back to what they call the pre everybody era. we effectively become post antibody. and it's, you know, a lot of countries, particularly countries like india, china developing countries or low income countries that have particularly poor water supply. the resistance level, there are estron comical cost. the common bacteria like a call i, i,

for practical purposes, i'm treatable. now, if you just have a yearning tract infection, you probably get better most of the time by yourself. but if you've got a serious infection, bone infection, bloodstream infection, then you have a lot of dis where otherwise treatable or preventable when we had anybody that worked. antibiotic efficiency is declining because of antibiotic over use. why? this is even a problem. so it's a problem because antibiotics was such wonderful drugs. i'm an infectious diseases physician. i treat people who are very sick, and one of the joy of my mission is you have people seriously ill. you give them a drug called an antibiotic and they get better very quickly, you know, often, you know, 5 days, 7 days. that's very different to a lot of other things in medicine where you have to stay on grabs. so any bikes i terrific drugs. the trouble is they're so good and they now so inexpensive,

we overuse them. people have, for instance, a throat infection, judo of ours, and we often get mandy body or a bit of a call where the antibiotics don't make any difference. so there's a huge be use that anybody can people but also in agriculture, it's just, you know, chickens for instance, to make them grow faster. and all of that combines to mean there's a lot more resistance or super bugs traveling between people to people traveling from, you know, animals to people, buy food and water. so we get rising, rising levels of anybody resistance getting worse and worse. and a lot of that is to do without the use of any voice, particularly, and people in hospitals in the community, but also in the agricultural sector. and then what's very important is how the gym spread from person to person or from one of people from animals to water and then to people is spread of resistant bacteria, is making a much worse and the worst your resources in a country such as a whole water supply, sanitation,

the worst the spread is. so the more soup about you have. so how exactly are on to buy arctic resistant bugs spreading? i mean, has this process accelerated? what are the observations of the past years? well, i think it is accelerating. now, the different germs spread different way. for instance, the pneumonia judah, and what we call a caucus is mighty spread from person to person, by being close to them, coughing, sneezing, guys, one person sitting there and is there, i'm lucky enough to develop pneumonia with it. i get very see the same for the golden staff of secretaries june, people who caused together skin to skin. com or touching benches. often that spread that way. but other job such as a call i, which is a common respect to recording your ear infections. but women, but also is a common of coding bod stream infection. what we call a senior that spread by numerous otherwise it can be directly person to person. but

more often is by what we call fecal material. you know, your bases when you go to the toilet, that can be directly spread to people, but also through water, contaminated water. people then in type of water and they come into their mouth, the germs, it's in their bow. and most of the time, it may not matter if i get a defective gallbladder, or a uni check, the patient and it can matter. and also if certain supervisors developing food animals, then when you process the animal it gets onto the nate. and then if you ingest the role or the cross contaminate tomatoes in your kitchen, then you get it in your mouth and the soup of august and stay there with the reason we know that's a problem and you get a lot through the mouth is we did a study in australia where we looked at a home on a medical students and nurses before they went on a holiday to asia and numerous other places. they carried very little supervisor. but when i came back off of them carrying a call, i resistant super bugs that i just want to interacting with people say water,

for instance, going to have bugs in it, including golden staff, on occasion, fresh board. i can have numerous bugs and you can see in some situations, for instance, in asia with aquaculture, you have fish in ponds where they actually put in animal and human species, sometimes also antibiotics. and then when those fish had taken out the coated with a supervisor, they can then spread not any in the local environment can spread globally. you know, you can have super bugs you, you know, picked up in china, the philippines that are imported into other countries. and spread, and we look at what happened in england and around the world, including a strike many years ago. there was a particular germ called all resistance called the new daily the tell i be like, and i was named because it was 1st found in india. but i was resistant to most antibiotics with dot and people from india who traveled they wrote effecting linda

. because then cross infection or infection in hospitals in england, but the same germ kind. it was right. we had a case of somebody who's gone to india plastic surgery requesting surgery. the room and i ended up in any chance to k unit, came back to astray and i needed to go to the hospital nursing. they had to join him on the picked up in india, presumably in the hospital, but can be in the environment that was resistant to every antibiotic we had in the urine. so these germs, do get onto aeroplanes, 7 or sevens, and travel all around the world with people who then can spread it in a new environment where i live or where the home is. and the way i see this is a multi layered problem because i thought onto biopics were needed by humans to treat infections. but now we're talking about antibiotic overuse and farming. great . can the food industry lay off using guns, biopics where they're animals and you know,

still be able to sustain the level of production that we need? well, my belief is i can there, you know, i've been involved in this for 20 or 30 years. and the argument is, although we can't grow chickens without antibiotics. well, that's not true. antibiotics do. my animals grow a little bit faster, but my knees groaning relatively full conditions. if you grow them in good condition, good, having good. everybody start like that much difference. it's only when the housing conditions of all that it makes a bit of difference. but again, studies in australia, but particularly large studies in europe. and in, in the u. s. the ones are, they show that when you withdraw, you bought it, you can still produce chickens at the same, right? the same wipes, in same period of time, you have to do a bit of modification. now you grow them, but you can do it because there's lots of places now that can grow chickens. in particular without a d, a, d, h we using people use that all for the entire period. so while it can be

a bit more difficult, it can be done capital, for instance, if you put them in, in open past your kettle, which is what we might grow into stria, they don't need, but they actually, they take longer to get bigger because they're rating ross, if you put him in a lot, you can need anybody because i think and because they get by sometimes you get infections and they live, but instead of growing them for $100.00 days, if you'd rather than $103.00 dies. in other words, grow them slightly slow up, you can do it without any bought it. so yes, it can be a lot more difficult at times to not use anybody, but you can get the same results if you change your practices. and, you know, basically look at the rental welfare a bit better. my own view is you got to use a lot of antibiotics to grow animals. there's a problem with animal welfare. the housing conditions are not, as they should be. they died is not as good as they should be because if you do it properly you use a lot less anti bodies. and another example is

a no way where they were using our particular group or anybody's quin lines. but they're salmon. what they did. instead, they produced vaccines and by giving the vaccines to the same and they managed to drop the body, use each by about 99 percent and got the same results. so you can achieve good production, healthy food without using antibiotics or using a lot less if you modify your practices and use otherwise. as a professor, we're going to take a short break right now, and when we're back we'll continue talking to professor peter calling the own and infectious diseases physician and clinical microbiologist. stay with us. the

the know what was, what was the good and by the in the can can hard while we're on by now i know i should know moment the age any legal mon tesla deals on males like one of them that will allow you to go for have an initiation of national with much i should be, you know, lot of the solar is gonna keep them in, but no, no, i mean, i mean i saw it in my in my name

is p as we were saying, shipping all of our jobs factors to china was a bad idea, but the american people were ok with it because although they're way, cuz we're going down the stuff they were getting from china, the wal mart was cheaper than ever. okay, now the chickens have come home to roost. now, the china labor sink is finished, inflation kicking in for real and wages are going up. but not as fast as inflation the, the who's

who's ah, i mentioned that i spent more than a month up in the last arctic. and when i got back, i had just totally refrained how great we now have it in modern life. so before i go up there, it's like i use hot running water everyday. i never thought about that as dr car, but they never saw great. that was, i don't have to go out and walk 5 miles downhill the stream and bring it back up to get my water right. but after alaska like i had to do all those things. and so when i get back into my water, my modern world and i turn on the faucet and hot running water comes out and hits my hand was like, oh my god,

this is unbelievable. this is the most amazing thing that i've ever, that happen to me in my life. the british and american governments have often been accused of destroying lives in their own interest. while you see in this, these techniques is the state devising message to end essentially destroy personality of an individual lifetime. means this is how one doctors, theories were allegedly used in psychological warfare against the prison as deemed a danger to the state. that was the foundation for the method of psychological interrogation, psychological torture, disseminated within the us intelligence community, and worldwide among allies for the next 30 years. been to the victim, say this with the consequences today

the and we're back with professor peter calling you on an infection physician and clinical microbiologist. an expert to the world has organizations on antibiotic resistance. professor, in general, right to humans, use more antibiotics or animal farm animals, many who needs to climb down on usage 1st. well, the biggest volume of anybody's in the world is using animals about 80 percent by volume of all the antibiotics use in the world. i used in chickens peaks and kaos now, and that's just what was most countries fine if i actually look at the amount of use. so that is way must be anybody used the way most of the soup, like the name produced,

because the type of antibodies they use in animals. it's very similar to what you're doing animals, even though the drugs that have got to for names and often medical doctors know what i mean because they, they different that has the same effect in people. a good example is a drug used to be used as what they call a growth promote, or in other was just was there an antibody? just my chickens go back that i have a pass and now that's not used in people, but it's the same type of drug as a drug. we are using people frequently all around the world bank. and by using that drug and chickens and pigs, you produce drugs co bunch. so they are your bank of margin registered in progress . they could come across the people to try be and they got and cause infection. all the resistance drain could transferred to the ones you know, but and human bow. so what happens in one sector can transfer to another sector. sometimes it takes a while, but it happens and there's numerous examples,

how it's happened. and that's why we need to be judicious with our use of antibiotics. everywhere in people we use nature use list hospitals. we need to use lists using sparingly, better infection control. so we don't spread infection, but exactly the same in the cultural industry because it's also in their interest, do not use too many bodies because they run out of antibodies thing when they have to treat sick animals. so it's in all our interests to decrease. anybody use and to stop the spread of the super bugs, because we stop the spreading people in the hospital. we use less, sandy bikes have better results, but people jacked me the same. it culture. so it's good for agriculture. and equally then you get less cross over from the agricultural sick often by water to people and vice versa. because with control it better than thinking, right? humans once invented antibiotics, can't, would you do it all over again and invent? i don't know like a super antibiotic that would help us deal with this super bugs we can,

but every time we do it bugs, one step ahead or not bobby honda and produce resistance. there is no antibiotic resistance. and the interesting thing about antibiotics, penicillin, we didn't bank we found and it's produced by phone guy. and so they a lot of antibiotics and naturally out there in the environment. things that are similar. so i've a june of already learn to. i don't want to be killed by this anybody. so there's natural protection out there in the environment. and what we do when we use the anti bodies, we actually then give an advantage to the germ the bacteria that's already got that resistance. we multiply and high numbers and then it spreads around in people in our country and, and then eventually traveled internationally. so most of the resistance is out there isn't just, you know, suddenly as a new mutation it often is, resistance genes are out there for other purposes. and then in fact is there and multiplied up,

so that has an advantage by not being killed by the anybody use it multiplies to really high numbers compared to the one field and then is much more able to spread to everyone else face therapy. there is the thing where we use a virus that it's certain bacteria instead of antibiotic that just killed bacteria and marks. and that sounds like a very refreshing alternative to on to buy optics. as it's far from being mainstream. well, it is far from our stream. i think russia are in the ukraine. my understanding is that a lot of research in this, in the past and hi, there be pages of viruses and my particular getting to certain bacteria kill them. and in fact, in australia and elsewhere about 20 years ago, why we, for instance, what we told type of fingerprinted golden staff was to use patches that you know, what number 87 would kill bacteria, so we would 9 bacteria. so in theory yes, very good. and i think it is a reason to advance it. the only thing about barges just like antibodies,

you can develop resistance to it and doesn't work against every talk bacteria. it's selective, which is good. but it also means you can have the same problem with it works for a while. it doesn't work because the bacteria develop resistance to the edge. but parges, i think something we need to develop bowl because in some ways you can develop quickly and utilize quickly. but yeah, you know, i'm so far i haven't reached the same level of development as dr. chemicals have, but it can be modifications of antibiotics to try and do the resistance. but it's an area where we're, i think we need lots of work. and i think there's a lot of experience in russia you're trying to, my understanding where we and you know, other countries should be on the learn a lot from what's been done in the past. so such therapy seems to be more custom tailor to the exact harmful bacteria that i have in my body. can there be and destroy scales wash therapies, like we have with unter biopics?

well in theory i think they could be because we know for instance, that certain just pure gold and staff or different bride and they call i and every other bacteria. so yes, i think they can. i understand one of the problems with 5 stair, a beat off of which the 1st time, but then it doesn't work the 2nd time in the same posting. you have different fonts for instance. so i think it's got a lot of potential and it is an area that we need to develop because it's a different lanes of killing bacteria than what we're doing now. and very selective . one of the advantages of antibiotic i q of about tyria and most of them don't have in our kidneys or lever, and this is fine with botch. the very selective is which bacteria they go into, which means that hot filled out the cells, one cells not damaged by it, but just not so bacteria, which is what we want, something very selective. so basically we need a lot more research and development done. and the more super bucks we have, the more important to look at other alternatives and fives therapy is one of those

alternatives. so the new super bugs that we're talking about, they're resistant. warranted by out. it's what are they exactly. are they new diseases, old diseases upgraded? well, they are all diseases caused by bacteria. we've known about for a long period of time, but now that is back to re respond to the drugs. randy barracks, we used to kill them. so the problem is it's all diseases with all bacteria that no longer killed by the drugs. so that's why we've got to come up with the new drugs, new, anybody or fudge therapy or something else that might kill them, or sometimes antibody therapy is use, but whatever we use, we basically need to do things. and bacteria multiplying up an overwhelming the body and killing the hardest to make them very steep and fudge therapy, anybody. and he bought anti body therapy. in other words, things produced by watch those appeal bacteria are all different. why is i've tried

to treat the super bugs, but none of them. so 5 have been, you know, a panacea or a complete answer. but the other report being we tend to, we tend to be somewhat overwhelmed. i think in countries i all will come up with a new drug and that'll fix the problem. the vice, the problem is infection control and prevention. we have to stop these bags from spreading because we get more effects and more save more lives by stopping the spread, which is often not very high tech. it's basic like, good what i good sanitizing watching your hands off and that's not done. and we, instead, we want to magic filled to kill this when we would get much more effect and much more prevention if we just talked about spreading as much in the 1st place. so how contagious and dangerous can an antibiotic resistance bug be? i mean, well we have right now is we're having a situation with a virus which isn't treated by antibiotics and it is quiet bad, but it's not end of the world back. well, none of this is end of the world. i mean,

you know, people before antibiotics were found, they would die very frequently, but not everybody would die. most people who got a new fix, you've got sales, l a and white cells alone. antibodies do a lot to kill bacteria, just be anybody still. so it's really making sure you look at your body, it's when you get burned in your breach your skin that bugs in. if you type, you know, put shirts down, people, you know, hospital bugs get through a barrier that would normally stop them. so a lot of the basics of infection are not doing things to people that make the most susceptible join fiction. if we can do that, there's obviously times where we can't do it. so a lot of the things we have to do, i think the basics. but on top of that, we do need to develop new drugs, new ways of combating the germ itself cove. it is a virus that, you know would be nice if we had any virals that were very effective against them. but it's the same, even in hatred, which is of ours. we have very effective drugs,

but you can get resistance to it. phone guy, which a different to back tyria cause now more and more lung infections, particularly people with their immune system depressed. and again we get resistance . so that's another example where we used and you found was widely for farming. and particularly in holland, they found that some of those back of those fund guy caused infections in people when they came in that don't respond to the standard drugs. bacteria are more of an issue because they more prevalent and we've got more drugs to kill them. that's why we call them and the body. but the other brought it to him and microtubules are covered, drugs, the kill viruses killed bacteria or a parent friend is our, nor any parasitic drugs, but also anti fungal drug. so there's a why gambit of anti, what we call anti microbial resistance, because every drug we use to kill either a virus that you're a fungus, all of them you can get resistance in the 1st place or develop. and then that can spread to other people and the problem rest or thank you so much for this wonderful

insight to the world of antibiotics. you know, i'm thinking scientists are saying we're saying we're like decades that they condemn it, is immune and no one would listen and look at us now. so i really hope that the co condemning will give them a mental to more action on the global health crisis. bronze. thanks a lot for this. wonderful interview. good luck with everything. good. thank you. oh, i the

me with the look of off the field. feel like you actually was still can you through that actually use them? she says to bill me out with your budget that i would have continues to tell you because it was in the each given famous from a credit issued by both of us in

the news. ah, me. ah, i mentioned that that you know, more than a month up in the last and ard, and when i got back, i had just totally refrained how great we now have it in modern life. so before i go up there, it's like i use hot run water every day. never thought about that as dr. car, but they never saw operate that was don't have to go out and walk 5 miles down hill

the stream and bring it back up to get my water. right. but after alaska like i had to do all those things. and so when i get back into my water, my modern world and i turn on the faucet and hot running water comes out and hits my hand was like, oh my god, this is unbelievable. this is the most amazing thing that i've ever that happen to me. my life, the new gold rushes underway, and gunner thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the goldfields, hoping to strike it. rich children are torn between gold and education. my family was very poor, i thought i was doing my best to get back to school, which still will have the strongest appeal. the,

the news the a jailed hacker who exposed abusive conditions of the prison he's being held in is denied telephone access to his lawyer, his wife and brands, an act of retaliation. bureau of prisons lawyer kelly died. she can only like speak to them if they have coming of course deadline. whereas she's not applying that requirement to any of the other tensions rise in afghanistan, where the taliban claims had taken control of a provincial capital in the country for the 1st time in 5 years. that's after the head of the government. media department is killed during an attack i guess to be here to do the work. so sucking.