clearly the money velocity charge, which is always going towards 0, they never goes anywhere. assisted on wall street balance sheet and they use it to buy expensive property land. and that's been the story now for more than 20 years. ah ah, ah ah . hello and welcome to cross off. we're all things considered. i'm peter lavelle, russia china relations are strong and getting deeper. we are told this is dangerous for the washington lead world. is it? why are moscow in beijing moving closer together? did the miscalculations of the washington consensus? have anything to do with it? is the china russia alliance made in america?

ah, ah, cross talking russia china relations. i'm joined by my guess lynch and she yang in geneva. he is a professor of international history and politics at the graduate institute of international and development studies engineer. but in israel we have john gong. he is a professor at the university of international business in economics. and here in moscow were joined by alexander luke, and he is head of the department of international relations at the higher school of economics. or tell me in cross talk roles. and in fact, that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciated when she and jenny, but let me go to you 1st year. i've been observing it for many, many years, the growing relationship closer, relationship that russia and china had. and it was, you know, a few years ago it was murmurings people met and mentioned in western media. and now all of a sudden they're in panic mode. is it best suddenly happened? well, this hasn't suddenly happened. it's been happening for

a very long time. and this, russia gave hope that the u. s. has gone through and much of the western world. they have just been oblivious to how the international stage is changing and the rapid miss of that change. and suddenly they wake up and say, oh my goodness, are you surprised by this? go ahead in geneva. oh, i'm not surprised at all. god has lot to do with the american mentality towards russia. in particular, since the end of the cold war, basically, united states thought, well, unipolar world is coming there, you know, russia is defeated. also, the unit was defeated during the cold war. so, the united states really did not take russia seriously. and the even belittle russia's contribution to the decisive end of the cold war. so i think this is a mentality american registration. the past, quite many of them attend,

including obama himself care. so in that sense, what obama is used to say, this is a 2nd rate country we don't take into seriously. so what's interesting now is that at least i believe biden's administration began to take russia more seriously. so in that sense, in terms of psychology, terms of mentality, maybe there is midland out, let me ask it real quickly. are they taking russia more seriously because of the russia china relationship that is growing? because i think that's the case. part of it, part of it, part of it. for sure. yes for sure. or let me listen is let me go to john in israel here. i mean, we just heard from luncheon that you know, the, the american, so take russia very seriously, but they don't, they can't seem to stop talking about russia every single day. i mean, you,

it's like keystone cops and james bond. you can have them both at the same time. they are obsessed with russia, but they are beginning to really fear china. and because of their, their projection again smote both it's help bring the 2 countries together, which makes perfect logical sense to me, go ahead, john and israel in the us, it was a battle most rival standby to some extent. so, you know, this attitude was long time over time to come to realize that the cannot be perspective from a national perspective. china is very rapidly in terms of g. p. p for trying today is about 70 percent of us. washer is, is very small. and there's a famous saying from the ex several state prison who says

that, marcia is basically, you guess they say in a masculine, is they should say, right? so, so i think there's increasing concern was that the it doesn't competition. so at this point, but doesn't just spark, so how many companies do you need to shift? and some of them are a warranty might do. so says host countries of the coming on the market. national interest is trying to do i go, which is something to

restore to some extent that i'm looking at was you saying? i think it's an alex center, this wedge issue. this keeps coming up here. i don't see any wedge whatsoever, because you have particularly from washington, an enormous amount of antipathy towards russia. we just recently had a summit which was kind of a stalemate in my opinion, over all which sometimes that's not a bad thing here. but, you know, when you, when you see the, the nato, nato meeting recently, the g 7. and it's all really about china, china, china, ok. and the americans are obsessed with russia, but the rest of, with russia and china at the same time, the europeans are a little bit more in between here. i don't see how they can divide russian china

when they're both being the target of aggressive rhetoric at the very least from the us. go ahead, alexander well, when americans, i mean, the american elite is stuck in about russia or china. they actually don't talk above them, the real russia try and this, there's a like run through symbols in the internal pool. so the main idea was for a long time after then what profess loan said union for period unity pull a moment was this is going to become an age of your new polarity. it will be there forever. so as o a d o, and just they, in the american, the lease i would say, and they rejected sex, rejected for a long time. the fact that russia and china was coming together and was forming

a kind of defect to alliance in eurasia, which wasn't used to be a nightmare to such jo jo, political thinkers like june, sky or right you soon who, who are not so crow russian. i must say so, but after the collapse of the soviet union, this was the idea and the mainstream thinking was that russia and china were like, it does meant that they could not to come to close together because there is differences. because china is a danger for russian. so, but now the more this changing, there are some people who talk in the united states about parallel identity in the russian, china that like values are coming closer together in the end. and then this is a problem. so this is why, by the way, why,

by them chose to meet the russian president because there were several articles including like show journals like for in the, the, which we're saying that now this is a problem, russian chinese refresh money. the problem is in danger for the united states, and we should do something about about it, perhaps somehow the way them and you know, by, by being but doing something for russia but, but there's always, americans don't want to give russia anything in return there. they're only talking . yes you're, you're probably know the well yes, wow. like center. i think it's more than just talking. san sanctions, sanctions and sanctions. that's not talk. but that telling you it's telling the russians and setting them a signal here. let me to go back to geneva here. you know, what they, they talk about, you know, be the problem. how problematic it is for russia and china to be allies. i don't

see it at all because russia and china reject this rules based order. nonsense. they look at international law because rules based order. it's all the rules are made in washington and basing. and moscow said that's not true. and we can say no, go ahead in geneva. well, yes, i do think that such a looking right on that they are talking about imaginary china and the russia. so therefore, they imagine the russia and the china still somehow inferior to too large. you can see the western values on they call the universal value, which is ironic because the, the, i always is the, i written the books criticising the concept of the universal value. the original meaning of universal value means catholicism in the middle ages. i think even

catholicism split into 2 in the end. right. so yes, but americans, in particular, the, that, the, the policy towards attitudes was russia and china is driven primarily by a span gallery and thinking, which is so called the decline, the west thinking it's a decline in is that, is it driving that kind of hysteria and the fantasy about china, russia now with china, i would as even something more that there was a racial side of it does the yellow peril. so you have spangler yellow peril. yeah, the china become far more dangerous than russia. in that sense, in the mentality, i get also throw, i could throw in orientalism as well as we're going to get academic, you know. yeah, i know, i'm very know, because for the last 500 years the western world is, is big basically determined the terms of engagement around the globe and suddenly

that is coming to an end and they are at a complete loss. and what, how could this possibly happen because they, the, their missionary messianic messages for all time, but it's not empire, it's rising fall that's but the, the arc of history here are gentlemen, i'm going to, i've been here, we're going to go to a short break down to that short break, we'll continue our discussion on russia, china relation. stay with our team. the i choose

the unexpected upside of the pandemic. kenya is experiencing an elephant baby boom. 26. why does kenya have so many allison carves and how has the panoramic impacted people's lives? there's a wall, it's a very big along in a bunk. any fact he end up killing himself? ah, i don't believe nearly, and you got one buyer. well, and i will make a little was no, did you get the idea? can you say lucky to me? mean it will because that and as i land the,

when anybody who did the they didn't even notice whether the equals you go, there's no local but i know the company just didn't go in order with me now we have cigarettes. i was just heard that it was a healthy alternative to figure out how do we trust tobacco companies with their message that these new products are actually going to reduce? are these, these are making the tobacco floors ah, welcome back across stock. we're all things considered. i'm peter labelle, remind you we're discussing russia, china relations. ah, ah. okay, let's go back to john in israel. john, there's a lot of talk about

a strategic alliance of including russia in china here. now it's my understanding here is that neither russia or china, constitutionally legally speaking, domestically, can be in a military alliances. but is that something that is turning into reality if it's, if it's not formally announced that because, i mean, it's interesting how nato is targeted. russia is a threat and also there are, quote, unquote, concerned about china, which again is, draws russian chinese together speak to the strategic possibly military relationship is when is that? is it already happening and what would it take for it to happen? go ahead, john to come to a strategic relationship, a large relationship. i think the official phrase for this comprehensive

partnership relationship and charlotte has a couple countries that have the strong relationship, i think most trying to you know, to see which trade as a strategic align suggested. because at the end of the day, i think both countries durations were actually much larger than with 2 countries. each other for capital trains and what i was trying to do business with stays even more recently, you know, you can union. so i think it would be extremely has to be capitalized. yes wes, this is something i'm just trying to avoid. so i'll talk about graduating, pushing the country into this, which doesn't want in the 1st place. so i don't know why

it's. it's a metric. no, absolutely. not, well, i mean, wait, what's interesting here, let me turn to alexander here in moscow is that, you know, be under the bide mean administration. it's the democratic world against the top cruces, and tyranny, and all about which again, you know, it's focusing on on, on china and russia, though i wouldn't use that the cock receive. i think it to actually cartoonish, the way it was coming out of a lincoln state department here. but alexander, i want to ask you a question. a comes up all of the time. is that, and any kind of strong relationship, bilateral relationship the, there's the claim and it's done despairingly obviously, is it, russia will be the junior member of the, of that relationship. how do you address it?

i don't think it's not. it means anything. and i think it's actually quite meaning lists, but that is something that it's always thrown out there. russia will be the junior partner, how to react to that. russia? well, it depends on what, what's your listen ition of june the apartment and if it's good or bad, for example, in nature or in european union, we have big countries and small countries like, i don't know, france is much larger than belgium, but they are members of the same lines and i don't think they see each other's a threat. so at the moment, i would say there are no any formal or see show these bones do in the russian and chinese interests. for example, sean chi cooperation organization, the russia and china, they contributed to the budget, the same amount of money,

while other countries pay less. and it is very strictly observed in any tree committed to russia and china. the equality principle. also, if we are talking about the some countries dependent on another, it basically means that the other one makes that country do something that it doesn't like. this does not exist in the russian chinese partnership. but saying this, we can say also that china is a much larger country in terms of population, the economy is about 10 times larger than the russia, and then this tendency continues. well, it wouldn't be necessarily an uncomfortable relationship, but china may well gradually have more influence in the world than russian. i think that russia should think about this. yeah,

let's go back to geneva. but one of the things that i find interesting, at least at the moment here, is that neither russia or china have any aspirations to export any kind of economic or political or ideological model. i mean, that's another thing that kind of brings them together because the, you know, the, you, the washington consensus is basically neo nipple, meal, liberal ideology. and if you don't believe in that id, ology are either inferior or you're a threat, or you're both in russia and china, have to their advantage of not seeing the world through an ideological lens. again, i will state this, they mean they may be the most common denominator here rely upon international law, not an ideological prism to decide how the world should be arranged. go ahead in geneva. yes, but the united states in particular and less so in europe today, still see the world in the black and white i call to me,

which of course is very much christian view of the world. so it's difficult, you know, to dispel that kind of way of thinking. so it's, i think that russians, china emphasize on whatever it applies to your countries on the model or whatever regime the system domestic system. it should fit to be your own culture. and the history, russia, this is not necessary to have the same system and then china want to, china also has to learn, you know, the, the good part of the, of the other people's system. so this is the, you know, different mentality. united states of causes in my views, the last defender of the european enlightenment, also doxey. well, i go so. yeah, i quit the i think i think it can be. it's

a bit ironic here because you have your, you have these very bizarre trends coming out of the united states. a called woke ism and postmodernism. i mean, it's right. you're right. i agree with you. i think it's a very good observation, but there will be others like myself that would saying is that the united states is leading the destruction of western culture and civilization, which in a very, very competitive international environment probably shouldn't be a good thing to do. i'm what am i making a reference to the anchorage summit that was a train wreck for the us when they had the, the chinese representative was repeating talking points from the democrats. very clever or very clever gambit. i must say. ok, but it does come home here. john, let me go to you. i mean, where is this relationship going? because one thing again, i want to talk. everyone likes to talk about the differences between russia and

china. of course, there are different countries, different cultures, etc. but they have a lot in common, and then what's going common is the lack of trust in the west, particularly the russians don't have much confidence in the west. nato won't expand, we promise you, we don't need to write it all down and then look what happened. ok, then forest regime change in ukraine, color revolutions on its borders here. and you and you connect the russian who keep leaving the state department. they don't anymore. and i think china as a keen observer, watching what's happened in the 20th century in the middle east. you know, is this a partner you want to deal with? that's going to be honest with you. i don't think so. okay. i mean, just being an observer of international affairs, it's better to trust your neighbor. that doesn't lie to you all the time, then to believe in the energies of capitalists from washington. go ahead, john. i think most countries are relationship counseling at the same time, not to be sliding into military alliance scenario. but i think

this very much depends on washington. this is the direction there were more possible action or you don't think it might not be interesting overall, you know, i feel about this database system. i want to make a comment on someone that's interested in promoting hope. oh, well, we don't want to messages but why don't use of our different i think to be just what is the problem. i have said that it's believing. so the just showing the handle

the shines in the background was a total of many aspects and also against the backdrop of washington being preaching that it's all liberal gospel. do many big changes and it fell. so i think they're mostly afraid of that. and 2nd, i think what is also going to, you know, just to try this message that we are actually not interested promote models. they just do this as a sort of tool, something that we can use to basically almost always regarding regarding the job everything they want to do, they can come up and say, look, try them mostly tell me that you will continue to emphasize this.

let me give alexander the last 30 seconds here. i agree with john. the world isn't just a g 7. the world. this isn't nato, the world just isn't the you. the world is changing, and i think china and russia understand that far better than people in washington last 32nd. see you alex and or go ahead. well, is quite an interesting situation when the united states wants to tear away russia from china. and this was one of the reason that by then decided to talk finally is to russia. i think it's not very possible to do that would be one this especially taking into consideration that they don't give, give russia anything for that, but at least understood that you should speak. i hope both to russia and china, that the world over very read, the co conflict is not in the interest of any but all right, that's fine. so i agree, and i think the biden people are

a day late in the buck short my want to thank my guest in geneva, israel, and here in moscow. and what i think our viewers for watching us here at our to see you next time. and remember, cross talk roles the me, i financial why the guy, i don't buy a i buy, i'm a teacher's that's not an almost friday at the last time i buy it from the future. so for i can watch kaiser replace. ah, you know, christmas and mr. moser,

when you said that, could you put the good to go below what you would have to do? i see yeah, going to show you. so you didn't know if we're still pretty good in the if the mother molar. that's what you will cover financing for us to let them know if they use them in your wish to follow some of the lease you might not. although a lot nobody me on there is a 2nd year that you forgot to tell me personally otherwise with the,

with the law in i when i would show the wrong when old rule just don't hold the rules. yes. to fill out the thing because the after an engagement, it was the trail when so many find themselves worlds apart and we choose to look for common ground in

the i one of the desperate guy and so long until us military playing, taking off from cobble films, the ordeal on his phone, the fight is unknown, but others went on to plunge to the meanwhile, the kind of grief the media offer its power grub from the thing is to fix low revenge that i'm going to work for. foreign armies are forgiven. also reveal is about kamala, who gave a victory speech from cobbled presidential policy when years as a detainees in guantanamo bay, ah,

blah for moscow. thanks for joining us on our team to nationals and it's, i'm daniel who.