good morning, mr. mazel. well, when you said that i could use the good to go below. what would you like to do? i'm going to show you so you need to bring it in at the molar. that's what you will cover the 1st little i don't know if i'm in the yet we still follow some of the lease. you might not, although a lot nobody me and he's a sucker. and you say you got a village coming up with you personally,

hon. ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah hello and welcome to cross town hall things are considered. i'm peter lavelle,

russia china relations are strong and getting deeper. we are told this is dangerous for the washington lead world. is it? why are moscow in beijing moving closer together? did the miscalculations of the washington consensus? have anything to do with it? is the china russia alliance made in america? the, the cross talking russia, china relations. i'm joined by my guess lynch and she yang in geneva. he is a professor of international history and politics at the graduate institute of international and development studies engineer. but in israel we have john gong. he is a professor at the university of international business and economics. and here in moscow were joined by alexander luke, and he is head of the department of international relations at the higher school of economics. or tell me in cross talk roles and effects. that means it can jump into a relationship that russia and china had. and it was, you know, a few years ago it was

a little murmurings people mitten mentioned in western media. and now all of a sudden they're in panic mode is if this suddenly happened. well, this hasn't suddenly happened. it's been happening for a very long time. and 80 this, russia gave hope that the u. s. has gone through and much of the western world. they have just been oblivious to how the international stage is changing and the rapid miss of that change. and suddenly they wake up and say, oh my goodness, are you surprised by this? go ahead in geneva. oh, i'm not surprised at all. god has lot to do with the american mentality towards russia. in particular, since the end of the cold war, basically united states thought, well, unipolar world is coming there, you know, russia is defeated. also, the unit was defeated during the cold war. so the united states really did not take russia seriously. and the even belittle rushes contribution to the

decisive end of the cold war. so i think this is a mentality american registration. the past quite many of them entertained, including obama himself. so in that sense, obama is used to say, this is a 2nd rate country. we don't take him to seriously. so what's interesting now is that at least i believe biden administration began to take russia more seriously. so in that sense, in terms of psychology, terms of mentality, maybe there is midland, she may african, real quickly. are they taking russia more seriously because of the russia china relationship? it is growing because i think that's the case. part of it, part of it, part of it. for sure. yes. for sure. or let me listen is let me go to john

in israel here. i mean, we just heard from luncheon that you know, the, the american, so take russia very seriously, but they don't, they can't seem to stop talking about russia every single day. i mean, it's like keystone cops and james bond. you can have them both at the same time. they are obsessed with russia, but they are beginning to really fear china. and because of their, their projection again smote both it's help bring the 2 countries together, which makes perfect logical sense to me, go ahead, john and israel. well, in the us, it was a battle most rival standby to some extent. so, you know, this attitude was long time over time to come to realize that the cannot be perspective from a national perspective. china is very rapidly in terms of g. t p for

trying today is about 70 percent of us. washer is very small and there's a famous st. x state prison who sits there. russia is basically, you guess they say in a masculine, is they should actually say, so i think there's increasing concern was that poses a more competition. so at this point, because it's kind of just spark, so how many companies do you think need to shift and some of them i want to do my view. so says host countries of the coming

market. national interest is trying to do i go, which is something to restore to some extent that i'm looking really handy, which i think it's so much alex center, this wedge issue. this keeps coming up here. i don't see any wedge whatsoever, because you have particularly from washington, an enormous amount of antipathy towards russia. we just recently had a summit which was kind of a stalemate in my opinion, over all which sometimes that's not a bad thing here. but, you know, when you, when you see the, the nato, nato meeting recently, the g 7. and it's all really about china, china, china, ok. and the americans are obsessed with russia, but the rest of,

with russia and china at the same time, the europeans are a little bit more in between here. i don't see how they can divide russian china when they're both being the target of aggressive rhetoric at the very least from the us. go ahead, alexander well, when americans, i mean, the american elite is stuck in about russia or china. they actually don't talk above them, the real russia try and this, there's a like run through symbols in the internal pool. so the main idea was for a long time after then, profess loan said union for period unity paula moment was, this is going to become an age of your new polarity. it will be there forever. so as o a d. o and just they and the american elite,

i would say they rejected sex, rejected for a long time. the fact that russia and china was coming together and was forming a kind of defect to alliance in eurasia, which wasn't used to be a nightmare to such jo jo, political thinkers like june, sky or right you soon who, who are not so crow russian. i must say so, but after the collapse of the soviet union, this was the idea and the mainstream, the thinking was that russia and china were like, it does mess and they could not to come too close together because there is differences because china is a danger for russian, so, but now the mood is changing. there are some people who, who talk in the united states about parallel identity in the russian, china that like values are coming closer together in the end. and then this is

a problem. so this is why, by the way, why by them chose to meet the russian president because there were several articles including like show journals like for in the fairs this, which were saying that now this is a problem, russian chinese refresh money. the problem is, and then you know, for the united states, and we should do something about about it, perhaps some how do i and them, and you know, by, by being but doing something for russia but, but as always, americans don't want to give russia anything in return the only the only talking. yes. you probably know the 12 yes. wow. like center. i think it's more than just talking. san sanctions, sanctions and sanctions. that's not talk,

but that's telling you it's telling the russians and sending them a signal here. me to go back to geneva here, you know, when they, they talk about, you know, be the problem. how problematic it is for russia and china to be allies. i don't see it at all because russia and china reject this rules based order. nonsense. they look at international law because rules based order. it's all the rules are made in washington and beijing and moscow say that's not true. and we can say no, go ahead in geneva. well, yes, i do think that social looking is right on that. they are talking about imaginary china and russia, so therefore they imagine the russia and china a still a somehow inferior under the 2 to losh, see all the way western values on they call the universal value. which is ironic because of the i always just written the books criticising the concept of universal

value. the original meaning universal value means catholicism in the middle ages. i think even catholicism split into 2 in the end. right. so yes, but americans, in particular, the, the, the policy towards attitudes was russia and china is driven primarily by a button gallery and thinking, which is so called the decline. the west thinking is a decline in is that it's a driving that kind of hysteria and the fantasy about china, russia now with china, i would add even something more that there was a racial side of it does the yellow peril. so you have spangler yellow peril. we have the china become far more dangerous than russia in that sense, in the mentality. i could, i could also throw, i could throw in orientalism as well as we're going to get academic,

you know. yeah, i know, i'm very know, because for the last 500 years the western world is, is big basically determined the terms of engagement around the globe and suddenly that is coming to an end and they read a complete loss. and what, how could this possibly happen? because they the, their missionary missy, on the message is for all time, but it's not empire, it's rise and fall. that's but the, the archive history here. right? gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break out about your break. we'll continue our discussion on russia, china relations. stay with our team. the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except when the shorter the conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. the point obviously is to

great truck rather than fear on various jobs with the artificial intelligence real summoning the demon a robot must protect its own existence with the you know, we've got to deal with a 6 day marathon, a creativity, a multi cultural festival. and the biggest variety is that competition for a few days became a russian cultural capital. 28 categories. ahh,

from filing a piano, to be honest with parenting and data protection night years just throwing up over water. sure. if you could get some kind of a 3 or for them to be here, they filter when read in or context the delta games only take the very best of the best. buy choose ah, welcome back to cross stock. were all things considered? i? peter labelle remind you were discussing russia, china relations. ah, ah. okay, let's go back to john in israel. john, there's a lot of talk about

a strategic alliance including russia in china here. now it's my understanding here is that neither russia or china, constitutionally legally speaking, domestically, can be in a military alliances. but is that something that is turning into reality if it's, if it's not formally announced? because, i mean, it's interesting how nato is targeted. russia is a threat and also there are, quote, unquote, concerned about china, which again is, draws russian chinese together speak to the strategic possibly military relationship is when is that? is it already happening and what would it take for it to happen? go ahead. john courses to come to a strategic relationship relationship, i think the official phrase for sure

relationship and china has a couple of countries. strong relationship. i think most china cautious about, you know, to see the trade as a strategic align suggested. because at the end of the day, i think both countries, accommodations were actually much larger to each other for capital trades and what i was trying to do business with santa stays, even more recently, you know, you can union. so i think it would be extremely has to be capitalized. yes wes, this kind of this is something i'm just trying to avoid. so he is graduating pushing the country into this, which doesn't want in the 1st place. so i will say why

you know, it's, it's a metric. no, absolutely not. well, i mean, wait, what's interesting here, let me turn to alexander here in moscow is that, you know, be under the bible administration. it's the democratic world against the top cruces, and tyranny. and all about which again, you know, it's focusing on, on, on china and russia, though i wouldn't use that the cock receive. i think it to actually cartoonish the witt. what's coming out of a lincoln state department here. but alexander, i want to ask you a question, a comes up all of the time. is that, and any kind of a strong relationship, bilateral relationship, the, there is the claim and it's done despairingly, obviously, is it? russia will be the junior member of the, of that relationship. how do you address it?

i don't think it's not. it means anything. and i think it's actually quite meaning list, but that is something that it's always thrown out there. russia will be the junior partner, hardy react to that. russia? well, it depends on what, what's your definition of june the apartment and if it's good or bad, for example, in nature or in european union, we have big countries and smaller countries, like, i don't know, france is much larger than belgium, but they are members of the same lengths and i don't think they see each other's a threat. so at the moment, i would say there are no any formal or official dis bones between the russian and chinese interests. for example, sean chi corporation organization, the russia and china, they contributed to the budget, the same amount of money,

while other countries pay less. and it is very strictly observed in any tree committed to russia and china. the equality principal. also, if we're talking about the some countries dependent on another in basically means that the other one makes that country do something that it doesn't like this does not exist in the russian chinese partnership. but saying this, we can say also this chinese a much larger country in terms of population. the economy is about 10 times larger than the russia. and then this tendency continues. well, it wouldn't be necessarily come for the military relationship, but china may well gradually have more influence in the world than russian. i think that russia should think about this. yeah,

let's go back to geneva. but one of the things that i find interesting, at least at the moment here, is that neither russia or china have any aspirations to export any kind of economic or political or ideological model. i mean that, that's another thing that kind of brings them together because the, you know, the, you, the washington consensus is basically me or nipple, a meal liberal ideology. and if you don't believe in that id, ology are either inferior or you're a threat, or you're both. and russia and china have to their advantage of not seeing the world through an ideological once again, i will state this, they mean they be the most common denominator here, rely upon international law, not an ideological prism to decide how the world should be arranged. go ahead in geneva. yes, but the united states in particular and less so in europe today. still see the world in the black and white i call to me,

which of course is very much christian view of the world. so it's difficult, you know, to dispel that kind of way of thinking. so it's, i think that russians, china emphasize on whatever it applies to your countries on the model or whatever regime the system domestic system. it should fit to be your own culture. and the history ok, russia that's not necessarily have the same system and then china want to, china also has to learn, you know, the, the good part of the, off the other people system. so this is the, you know, different mentality, united states and causes in my views last the defender of the european enlightenment, also doxey. well, i go so badly. oh, yeah. i the,

i think i think it can be, it's a bit ironic here because you have your, you have this very bit bizarre trends coming out of the united states. a called woke. is them in post modernism. i mean, it's right. you know, you're right. i agree with you, i think it's a very good observation, but there will be others like myself that would saying is that the united states is leading the destruction of western culture and civilization, which in a very, very competitive international environment probably shouldn't be a good thing to do, i'm what i'm obviously making a reference to the anchorage summit that was a trade rec for the us. when they had the, the chinese representative was repeating talking points from the democrats. very clever or very clever gambit. i must say. ok, but it does come home here, john, let me go to you. i mean, where is this relationship going? because one thing again, i want to talk. everyone likes to talk about the differences between russia and

china. of course, they're different countries, different cultures, etc. but they have a lot in common, and they're, they can common is the lack of trust in the west, particularly the russians don't have much confidence in the west. nature won't expand, we promise you, we don't need to write it all down and then look what happened. ok, then for 3 gene change in ukraine, color revolutions on its borders here. and you and you expect the russian who keep leaving the state department, they don't anymore. and i think china as a keen observer, watching what happened in the 20th century in the middle east. you know, is this a partner you want to deal with this? going to be honest with you, i don't think so. okay. i mean, just being an observer of international affairs, it's better to trust your neighbor. that doesn't lie to you all of the time. then to a believe in the in treaties of capitalists from washington. go ahead, john. i think most countries are going to the situation, she very carefully at the same time, not to be sliding to military alliance scenario. but i think

this very much depends on washington. this is to push this direction. there were more directions or if you think it might not be interesting overall this database system. i want to make a comment on someone that's interested in promoting the model. we don't want to show messages and b o y suits of our different people to be just what is the problem? bye nancy. it's believing paul. so the just showing

the handling of the damage shines in the background was a total failure. many aspects and also against the backdrop of washington being preaching that is all liberal gospel, do many of the country and it fell. so i think they're mostly afraid of that. and 2nd, i think what is also interesting to, you know, just to try this message that we are actually not interested promoting model. they just do this as a sort of a tool. something that you can use to basically almost always regarding the g 7 regarding everything you want to do, they can come up and say, well, try them mostly. tell me that you will continue to emphasize is to

let me give alexander the last 30 seconds here. it's, i agree with john, the world isn't just a g 7. the world. this isn't nato, the world just isn't the you. the world is changing, and i think china and russia understand that far better than people in washington last 32nd. see you alex, and go ahead well, is quite an interesting situation when the united states wants to tear away russia from china. and this was one of the reason that by them decided to so finally is to russia. i think it's not very possible to do that. would be one this especially taking into consideration that they don't give, give russia anything for that, but at least understood that you should speak. i hope both to russia and china, that the world over very read, the co conflict is not in the interest of any but all right, that's fine. i agree,

and i think the buying people are a day late in the buck short my want to thank my guest in geneva, israel and here in moscow. and want to take our viewers for watching us here at our to see you next time. and remember, cross talk roles the the follow up on something we've been talking about for awhile and that is the lack of leadership, but never ending money printing. now we have e cigarettes, i just heard that it was a healthy alternative to figure out how do we trust tobacco companies with their message that these new products are actually going to reduce? are these, these are making the tobacco tours americans

love by an armed, ah, this would have funded middle part of how our political leadership and our country large, understood the bargaining. you hall and then you know, rebel right, as the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system, be really interesting to dial back and think about the longer, deeper history of what housings meant in the united states. not just that old question of the american dream, but the bigger question of who the dream has been for the with our lives here on our tea new videos emerging from

afghanistan capital showing the desperation of people trying to flee the return of the taliban. the group brief, the media author, it's how grabbed promising it thinking no revenge on women take to the streets to defend their rights which the taliban pledging to keep protected. although within the limits of islam, we discussed the situation with the head of the countries of the largest media company. the total of trying to win hearts and minds long ways to go before we can say that. their receptive to women on television to equal opportunity for the european union admit it's money and efforts to train the afghan army. we're all in vain. we gauge reaction around the world after what's been going on the last few days and i've gone to san.