to figure out how do we trust tobacco companies with their message that these new products are actually going to reduce? are these, these are making the tobacco wars? oh i welcome to the alex salmon show where we focused on the license to be drawn from the cottage. dramatic events, enough gone the sun after 20 years and cooler in life, support the canister. government collapsed within days. much of the embarrassment and humiliation of the usa britain underneath to allies to day we take the action from the white toast, the house of commons. and from the movement of the moment the taliban themselves.

do we ask old ask god hands and expedient? common teacher repeated all born when the real significance by the 6 extraordinary developments after full, we can hold up in comp. david, this is how joe biden explained to me the chaotic scenes from couple the developments of the past week reinforce that any u. s. military involvement of gas and now was the right decision. americans cannot and should not be friday or, and dine in a war that afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves. the president was making the best of a bad job, but the u. k. defense actually been wallace with more emotional when he broke down on a local radio station. men and women of our armed forces are risking their lives and doing that. but that is the right thing to do. they bring their lives 20 years. and you know, the very least that obligation has to be is many of the people to the pipeline as

possible. but i think i also said it's, it's a really big part of the read to me that some people will get back some people and get back. and we will have to do our best in countries to processes. because this is somewhat surprising, since there is no evidence at all. the evacuation centric cobble airport was even under. despite the chaotic seems that people are desperate to leave. when the commons met on wednesday, the image was stronger, but the ear full of recrimination. they gave their room for our safety and we owe it to them to give out to prevent afghanistan from once again becoming a breeding ground. but terrorism. yeah. because no matter, no matter how grim the nephews of the past, the future is not yet written. can i just bring him back to the statement by the

president of the united states the other day? does he not agree with me? this took on the terms really of a sort of shameful excuse. when he blames the afghan forces have lost nearly 70000 in trying to defend africa. and when corruption had stripped away much of their pay, their money, their support, and the american decision to withdraw the aircraft cover was almost certainly going to leave this. does he not think that that is shameful? the partition people will have to live with the consequences of the prime ministers . plato, we have for 20 years to read off on the side of tara, tara, which threatens our security here in britain and liberty. and i'm going to stop. the taliban are back in control. the prime minister has no plan how to handle the situation just as he had no plan to prevent it. what we've won for 20 years of sacrifice could all be lost. the cost mister speaker of chat with leadership

in july of this year as president biden and wise, honorable friend, the prime minister, indicated that they did not think that the taliban was ready or able to take over control of the country was our intelligence really? so whole was an understanding of the government, so weak was our knowledge of the position on the ground. so in other words, oh, did we really believe this? or did we just feel that we had to follow the united states and hope the dog went to press? it would be all right on the night. i'm sad to say that the skin owns last night by the government, and today by the fin minister, doesn't go near far enough or fast enough. that could only be right, that the number of refugees we welcome here reflects the share of responsibility.

the u. k. government has for the foreign policy disaster, the west mr. parties seem to agree that the u. k. sure was know to open its doors today a few days. oh, very laudable. but it will leave some 38000000 of guns still in their own country. however, there was little reflection from the current crop of m. p. 's, on the wisdom of the decision 20 years ago. not just to defeat the taliban, but to attempt to occupy a nation build this country. this task was embarked upon by every clear lesson of history to make alexander the great to the british empire, to the soviet union. every invading army marched into gone a son easily and every one came out bloody. meanwhile and cobbled victorious taliban confounded the critics by often conciliation instead of barbarism. this is what they had to say. i want to give assurances to all competitors, those on the positions side as interpreters involved in military actions or those

who helped civilian sectors. we have granted them all amnesty. we don't want to take revenge on any one and those youths who are talented and from the soil. we don't want them to leave never. they are a valuable asset. they must stay in the country, god willing, and according to share a law, we will that women work and participate in activities. women are the main symbol of our society. we respect them. women who participate in different sectors of society, although according to the sarah law. so this week for the taliban game section, much in the military campaign and reigned one in the new propaganda war, which has largely placed it for 20 years, commented to pete or borne has followed the conflict and have got a son from the dawning of operation enduring freedom until this week's total collapse. today, he speaks to alex about the real lessons behind this week's epic. again, these are all bottle thanks once again for joining me. i'm alex simon. show a real pleasure out of this momentous time. let's go back to the beginning of the

20 years ago in the aftermath of 911, the coalition. the put together of natal involvement takes over afghanistan. but the object event was to fight in the summer, been latin stop. i forgot to stun being a, a base for international terrorist action. basically, what happened? remember, it was a very well executed operation to begin with. it's on the back of vanished almost at once. and the collection of the conservative surrounding george bush embarked on the enterprise, which the rack and calamity around the world. but it was the shortage. i mean, i remember the debates and the commons in 2001. i'm and i to my cell phone in time the l type dateable voice and the totally back benches. nice days. all of us

and many more said look, jeremy colbin. i think let's just give a little knowledge. i mean coby and although said, look, beware of mission creep. do the job and get out. was so many illustrations from history from alexander the great to the, the british empire, to the soviet union. why an f and did people think it was going to be any different this time around? it is bizarre. it was the british in a funny way, who pushed it the 2nd time round when they basically they were being driven out to be racked. you remember about 256, and i think they wanted to retain a row. and so they asked our suggested disastrous visit. we went to the province, which is where the bulk of the very brave soldiers lost their lives. you know that

you eat. i remember discussing it with you at the time because of the involvement of scottish regiments and old off guy hand. you've made a film about the taliban. i'm and the 10 years ago you who you are making a film saying a waiting for the taliban. when you made that film back in 201011 was a widespread expectation. even at that time that the taliban would be back. i think so was i think there was never any. the, the asked about, have not gone away. like any girl or army. it just retreated into the, into the population. but it was a very, very memorable experience. no one having the honor of speaking to ordinary. she's what we did in the young go. so a young women who were going to school and envisage as security, or as, as lawyers or as bankers or as products issues or

a school teachers offices. for them, they were really afraid already, they were thinking, but life, they were experiencing threats and so on. and to them the rest of the band, they all told us was really, really an awful thing. but at the same time i spoke to a local businessman and particularly and cobble where the exact same thing they said we can't run a business under the kyle. sadly, of the car, car dimes because i government. so when you know the store sion, the corruption kid, not threats, horrible tortures inflicted on them. and they not because they supported the band, but they did remember the under the be low or no doubt. and that is a, it's very easy for those of us in, in western countries. whoa, he can take for granted an element of law and order to think he doesn't matter if

you're trying to run a business with organized crime games coming. asti, you all the time, it's a different matter. i think to me, i was very struck then by the desire of decent people just to get to, to return to nobility for them the preferable no matter was the kind of that, well i can say it, i'm sure the low to say it. because the initial in was generally supported across the house and parliament and across part the basis i had. this was unusual for me as a s and p politician at that time i was, i was given the security things, and i can say for definite information being relied on for the topography of got a style was mapping done by the british forces. evelyn, 1900 century. so those platinum, if the maps was still in the, in the ministry of defense, why wasn't the the wisdom retaining this?

well, this might not be the place to get into over the long term. this is a momentous moment there because we are now running up to the 20th anniversary. next month is a 20th of last year of $911.11 lead. of course we can see to the iraq disaster to the afghanistan disaster to the to m. i know sort of time generally maybe to bolivia, disaster and i think what they, the mistake made was to see the a path on the twins as an act to war launched by and undefined, most of them islamic. and actually what it was was a very successful and a terrorist attack. and the mistake made by the bush administration and assisted by 20 blad others, was regarded as an active war. now even to be pursued as kind of terror,

terrorism authoration. it would have been successful and the world remember was, was so much in sympathy with the united states and september 2001. i mean they get around was very offering assistance against the time. and those friendly advances were repudiated by the united states, which chosen stand to embark on this nonsensical war class of civilizations adventure in which thank he, on what they saw as a unorganized muslim an enemy, which actually didn't exist step of ably once in a few school archive roberts just existing in an iran gotten by the end of 2000 to $1.00 join us out to the big when alex continues his discussion with

journalists and broadcaster pizza, o'brien will see that the, the, the americans love by an armed, ah, this is a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country, a large understood the bargain. you get a home and then you will rebel, right? as the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. be really interesting to dial back and think about a longer, deeper history of what housings meant in the united states. not just that old

question of the american dream, but the bigger question of who the dream has been for. welcome back. alex. in conversation with peter over about the ongoing situation in afghanistan. let's look at the, the implications firstly for america. because this guy, the story began in the tack and the twin towers and success of american presidents have been embroiled in these. and these conflicts that comes down to jewel bite, who is very keen to say, you know, i'm at the end of the label here. i'm the for, for bella. can my presence to be involved? and i'm the one who's saying that has to stop by and have a case. and car has consistently argued that the, the mighty dollar couldn't tutton. i've got to stand into a prototype,

western democracy. that's his consistent argument. so there are also i've been watching video for teacher guide and argue that we were involved in a nation building at price. sure. you seen that to? sorry, i'm not quite sure. he's just as consistent as you say. and so america has been made to look ridiculous and that again, to be consequences for the united states. oh the you know, what is has been, which has echoes of before of saigon. so just as the follow saigon, the locations, all jimmy carter and the attempt to, to rescue the iranian hosted, has it been cations. it's really the, the act of looking week looking like chaos. which is the big danger for joe. by that he looks exposed and ridiculous. is that your rog well, i mean,

even if you think it was the right thing to do, it was still very badly executed. now, if you, let's look at the consequences for the american military presence in elsewhere in the what we might not start to west asia, iraq, syria, i, you know what it biden has single say no, but the united states is not that interested in the rest of the world in that sense, adopt today? well, this is my surprise. i h from p m foreign policy and oscillation is foreign policy. well, america's allies are gang to think about the in these areas. i'll gain a look at it and think, well, do we really want to be in? and i live america or, or america generic again to abandon us. this is, this is quite a significant moment when china is,

is steadily rising as an economic increasing. there's a political source for britain. i mean that was a really moment when the band wallace, the defense fact broke down on l. b. c. radio. but even more revealing was, was his claim after i started to treat with the taliban. he, i think instead of building a little terrace of coalition to support, i've got to stop the government ever feasible that you could replace the united states. and that venture is another profound point we have to take away from this. i think the western countries for the time being at any rate have lost the ability of the will to take casualties on a and so they're not going to stay in a base like a gun, his dad, where they can be targeted. but wouldn't a little quite cool thing for the same site to be doing? would be sending the royal regiment of scotland to hold the airport for the few

days. instead of think about, hold to hold, to hold the country for years. now i take my hat off in a way that was he, he saw that there's clearly been a split between the united states and breton white. hang on. and i think the, the, the ethic rapid see of this collapse and the scenes we've seen at the people trying to skype double. there was a sense of honor towards the afghans who, who have supported the british west and presence. and i think britain, to its credit is actually has felt more of that since foreigner than i'm afraid the united states comes to compare and contrast the united states ambassador who reportedly scuttle as soon as he could. and that's a deep moment of shame to the state department, i should say, in the united states, which he represented against the british ambassador who was still there last year around as long as the signing visa form actually is

a britain has conducted itself partly due to this splendid emissary, we have a couple with great on about how about the russian? i'm boston who's the sale of the st. kabuki. yes. and i would say, i know why the early it's very nice. but the taliban appear to be behaving with great restraint. there's been no bloodshed in the bowl, but the reports as well, but it looks there's been a big disjunction, actually between the press reporting of this and all about con age of the taliban. and what we've actually seen, which has been much more restrained so far, including towards women, it's very early days, may may be getting false report. now, i the russian ambassador this day, i would point why we would leave the maintenance because the band is, is not taking not committing assets,

committing atrocities that we can see. certainly nothing, couple person, not the single significant claim that the coalition forces could make that the, the has been an improvement in the life chances of, of so many afghan, the women over the last 20 years. and there's not any real whole the freedoms they've enjoyed on the edge occasion. they have been entitled to, well, it's of any hope that that will continue on the taliban. i agree with you and charlie. i think that is an enormous achievement. it's not just the west side. i think we a lot of this is framed in terms of the westman, but we're talking about a country which has its own traditions and independence and magnificence, sexually lovely people in a very beautiful place. by the way, where you could always in my considerable experience expect get lot of hospitality and i'm yes,

wonderful change towards education for boys and girls. in particular because there wasn't a lot before. it's been a great advance cobble itself was even think, go back 20 years. it was pretty well destroyed. and now it's quite a flourishing mom, looking city in many ways. so it's these changes and i think that the, the presence of dance good. it's okay. i mean, early days, but like you really hopeful in that way and that would be indicated be that extraordinary press conference a couple of days ago with the taliban gave all sorts of assurances of no reprisals the life would go on and the more effective government that relo to the western press. cool by surprise, that is not what i made a nonsense of a lot of the western press reporting, which was stuck in these kind of oriental lists reporting of subject for which

they were only capable of dictating true western eyes and said, there is every reason to hope that the this will be a different kind of country than the one which existed in 25 years together. let's see that all the empire of this paula bon victor, the on afghanistan, near neighbors pakistan and protect lemon caliber. the pal, bye, know, have an army of 65000 people finance to the medical state department and the pentagon. superbly well equipped with some headache and weapons. is this a threat to them? the neighbor so will be celebrations in pakistan. the taliban, the mattress pakistan has got to manage its relationship with the new regime and topple and, and i would associate will do so in

a sensible way. and i don't think it's our business to try and tell pakistan what to do. that's what's george bush shooting threatened to bomb pakistan into the stone. i said that the president, michelle, will this, these people did 2020 years ago. and i hope that we have the wisdom to leave pakistan to manage its connection with a ton of looking at the sweep of history. when the, all the details are written, the story is understood where, where will this fair enough? gamma stands. her stay will be just another attempt invasion by another fundamental local which was available to repel them and life. and i've got a stand will go on and will this be the, the last time some the mark to come to? well, it last time for the time be about various british mc. somebody else know that his name will be going back in mass nonsense. but white up. the other question i would

put him in the the russians got thrown out of afghanistan and that was the end of the saw here is was the, is the americans suffering this scale of the and, and afghan is going to be the end of the american emp, socially i think it is in the, in that part of the world, i think the but it still deep implications for the what we no longer coldly middle east should start to call west asia. i think the americans again to retrieve on themselves. i think america, united states, to collapse in the way the soviet union did, but i think it's going to have a different perspective on the walls. this robot. thank you so much for joining me . once again. malik salmon show modern staff feels ago.

soviet troops withdrew from afghanistan, desolate, what followed was the total collapse of the soviet empire. this week it was america analyze who took the fled from to boot, fullest pre saves the end of the american empire. but at least of america as a dominant little power with the appetite to impose its military will worldwide. however, if this was him elation for america, they were not alone in the embarrassment. mostly entire western media was systemically predicting a blood bath and i've got to stand old to be faced by victorious taliban who sounded conciliatory, even magnanimous in a moment, to miller, to try and maybe of course of the one word from the taliban will be replaced by the center of the barbarism and maybe that lives of women or girls in the country will become increasingly difficult and all of the great gains made in education and basic human rights will be the vest. hover the ellis signs did not seem to point in

this direction. right no, the question should be exactly what the, the 3500 coalition troops, the more than 65000 off gun forces. and the 200000 civilians die for. the sacrifice was used by the leaders to prop up a vino, decadent and totally corrupt puppet government. that river of blood to squeal in the hands of those who supported this long, desultory neo colonial conflict. and then was the treasure it expanded $900000000000.00 by america, $50000000000.00 by the u. k. and 20000000000 by germany. that sort of expenditure on construct of targeted aid could have tons of got to stand into a pilot based on f lifted countless millions across the planet problem. mostly, of course, the competence in this later stuff gotten won't have an obligation to taking that never to bill x. this of refugees. however, the important issue is not just the 10s of thousands fleeing,

but the fate of the 50000000 afghans will stay in the country. perhaps this time, after 20 long years for the western little to develop a viable non military strategy to improve the lot of the people of i've got to stop . and so for me, not myself and all at the show as good bye for know, stay safe. we'll see all again, next week. ah, me soon. the annex painted upside of the pandemic kenya's experiencing. and elephant baby boom.

200. why does kenya have so many cars? and how has the panoramic impacted people's lives? there's a wall of fairly big long in a bunk and in fact he end up killing himself. ah, i'd have to live on a lease and then you go buy a car. well and i will make it was, i didn't mean to get there. i can say like it when the mean thing in it, because at night that of the when the new been a video to the and he didn't even notice whether the equals to do this. but i know the company just wasn't going whatever did

the cobble applewood sees more k officers, but us military uses tear gas to discuss crowd of people desperate to flee the country. i 1000 remain strong enough. got us on governments around the world of facing criticism for the slow response to the crisis on the program. we hear from a german national who's begging for rescue for both him and his afghan fiance. let us finally leave this caliphate give me and my fiance permission to enter germany 10. the afghan soldiers are reportedly rallying in the east of the country under the leadership of the vice president who is 5th. he is now the country's legitimate leader. as you hottest in syria's easily providence to celebrate the title of balancing.