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ah well come to the alec salmon show where we focused on the license to be drawn from the cottage dramatic events enough gone the sun. after 20 years and coolness in life support. they've got to stand government collapse within days, much of the embarrassment and humiliation of the usa britain underneath to allies. today we take the action from the white toast, the house of commons, and from the movement of the moment the taliban themselves. do we ask old ask on hands and expedients commentator, people burned by the real significance by the 6? extraordinary developments after full, we can hold up in camp david. this is how joe biden explained to waive the chaotic scenes from couple the developments of the past week. reinforce that any u. s. military involvement of gas and now was the right decision.

americans cannot and should not be friday, you know, war and dine in a war that afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves. the president was making the best of a bad job. but the u. k. the fence actually been wallace was more emotional when he broke down on a local radio station. men and women of our armed forces are risking their lives in doing that. but that is the right thing to do. they bridge the last 20 years and you know, the very least that obligation has to be that many of the people through the pipeline as possible. but i think i also said, yeah, and it's really dig polygraphed to me that some people get back. some people get back and we will have to do our best and 3rd countries to processes people. this is somewhat surprising, since there is no evidence at all that the evacuation centered cobble airport was even under track despite the key or 16th of people desperate to me. when the

commons met on wednesday, the mood was stronger, but the air full of recrimination. they gave their rule for our safety and we owe it to them to give out to prevent afghanistan from once again becoming a breeding ground. but terry yeah, the kids no matter. no matter how grim the nephews of the past, the future is not yet written. can i just bring him back to the statement by the president of the united states the other day? does he not agree with me? this took on the terms really over sort of shameful excuse. when he blames the afghan forces, who have lost nearly 70000 in trying to defend africa. and when corruption had stripped away much of their pay, their money, their support, and the american decision to withdraw the aircraft cover was almost certainly going

to leave. this does not think that that is shameful. the partition of people will have to live with the consequences of the prime ministers. plato, we have for 20 years to read off kind of tara, tara, which threatens our security here in britain and liberty. and i'm going to stop the taliban back in control. the private still has no plan how to handle the situation just as he had no plan to prevent what we wanted for 20 years of sacrifice could all be lost. the cost mister speaker of chat with leader in july of this year i was president wise on the gal friend, the prime minister indicated that they did not think that the taliban was ready. you're able to take over control of the country. was our intelligence really? so whole was on understanding of the government, so weak was our knowledge of the position on the ground. so in other words, oh,

did we really believe this? or did we just feel that we had to follow the united states and hope that on a william depress it would be all right on the night. i'm sad to say that the stephen owns last night by the government and today by the fin minister doesn't go near far enough or fast enough. that could only be right, that the number of refugees we welcome here reflects the share of responsibility. the u. k. government has for the foreign policy disaster. the west parties seem to agree that the u. k. show was know to open its doors today a few days. oh, very laudable. but it will leave some 38000000 of guns still in their own country. however, there was a reflection from the current crop of m. p. 's, on the wisdom of the decision 20 years ago. not just to defeat the taliban, but to attempt to occupy a nation build this country. this task was embarked upon by every clear lesson of

history to make alexander the great to the british empire, to the soviet union. every invading army marched into gone a son easily, and every one came out bloody. meanwhile and cobbled the tories taliban confirmed their critics by often conciliation instead of barbarism. this is what they had to say. i want to give assurances to all competitors, those on the position side as interpreters involved in military actions or those who health and civilian sectors. we have granted them all amnesty. we don't want to take revenge on any one. and those youths who are talented and from the soil. we don't want them to leave never. they are a valuable asset. they must stay in the country, god willing, and according to sherry law, we will that women work and participate in activities. women are the main symbol of our society. we respect them. women who participate in different sectors of society, although according to the sarah law. so this week for the taliban game set and much

in the military campaign and round one and the new propaganda war, which has largely the place for 20 years, commented to peter or born has followed the conflict and have gone on from the joining of operation. enduring freedom until this week's total collapse. today, he speaks to alex about the real lessons behind this week's epic of a little bottle. thanks once again for joining me. i'm alex simon. show a real pleasure, particularly at this momentous time. let's go back to the beginning of the 20 years ago in the aftermath of 911. this coalition put together of natal involvement takes over afghanistan. but the ship to very was to fight in the summer, been latin and stopped africa stun being a base for international terrorist action. basically what happened?

remember, it was a very what executes it. operation to begin with. the taliban vanished almost at once. and the collection of near conservative surrounding george bush embarked on the enterprise, which the rack and calamity around the world. but it was the shortage. i had a member of the debates and the commons and 2 sizes. one i'm and i to my cell phone in time the l tack dateable voice and the total back benches. nice days office and many more said look, jeremy colbin, i think let's just give a little nod. i mean, colby and although said, look, beware of mission creep. do the job and get out. was so many illustrations from history from alexander the great to the, the british empire, to the soviet union. why an f?

and did people think it was going to be any different this time around? it is bizarre. i, it was the british in a funny way, who pushed it the 2nd time around when they basically they were being driven to iraq. you remember about 20056 and i think they wanted to retain a row. and so they suggested disastrous that we went to the province, which is one of the bulk of the very great british soldiers lost our lives, you know, that you eat. i remember discussing it with you at the time because of the involvement of scottish regiments, you're an old off guy hand. you've made a film about the taliban. and the 10 years ago you who you are making a film saying a waiting for the taliban. when you made that film back in 201011 was a widespread expectation. even at that time that the taliban would be back. i think

so was i think there was never any. the, the asked about, have not gone away like any, get around it and just retrace it into the, into the population. but it was a very, very memorable experience was no one having the honor of speaking to ordinary. what we did in the young go. so a young women who were going to school and envisaged security torez as low as or as bankers or as products issues or a school teachers offices. then they were really afraid already they were thinking but life, they were experiencing threats and so on and to them the rest of the county ban nail told us i was really, really an awful thing. but at the same time, i spoke to a lot of businessman and particularly in cobble where the exact opposite they said we can't run a business under the kyle, sadly. of the car,

current cars i government. so when you know the store sion, the corruption kid, not threats, horrible tortures inflicted on them. and they not because they supposed that kinda bad, but they did remember the under the account to be lower, no doubt. and that is a, it's very easy for those of us in, in western countries where we can take for granted an element of law and order to think it as a matter of trying to run a business with organized crime games coming off to you all the time it's a different matter. i think to me, i was very struck then by the desire of decent people just to get to, to return to no margin for them the preferable no matter she was the kind of that. well, i can say it, i'm sure the low to sit because the initial in was generally supported across the

house and parliament an cross party basis. i of this was unusual for me as a s n people with dish at that time i was i was given the security briefings and i could say for definite information being relied on for the topography of i've got to start was mapping done by the british forces evelyn 1900 century. so the plan to admit the maps was still in the, in the ministry of defense. why wasn't the the wisdom retaining this well, this might not be the place to get into over the long term. this is a momentous moment because we are now running up to the 20th anniversary. next month is a 20th of last year of $911.11 lead. of course we can see to the iraq disaster to the afghanistan disaster to the to m. i know sort of time to

actually maybe to bolivia, disaster. and i think what they mistake made was to see the a path on the twins as an act to war launched by and undefined. most of them islamic enemy, ashley, what it was, was a very successful and a terrorist attack. and the mistake made by the bush administration and assisted by the blad, others, was regarded as an act of war. now, even to be pursued as kind of terror, terrorism, authoration, it would have been successful. and the world remember was it was so much in sympathy with the united states in september, 2001, i mean they ran was very offering assistance against the time. and those friendly advances were repudiated by the united states,

which chosen stand to embark on this nonsensical war class of civilizations adventure in which thank he, on what they saw as a unorganized muslim an enemy, which actually didn't exist ably once in a few score. archiver authors chips existing in an iran desk guy by the end of 2000 to $1.00 join us out to the bake. when alice continues his discussion with journalists and broadcaster pizza, or we'll see that the the

follow up on something we've been talking about for a while and that is the lack of leadership, but never ending money printing. now we have e cigarettes, i just heard that it was a healthy alternative to cigarettes. do we trust tobacco companies with their message that these new products are actually going to reduce? are these are making the tobacco have been worse? welcome back. alex, in conversation with peter, all born about the ongoing situation in afghanistan. let's look at the implications firstly for america, because this guy,

the story began in the tack and the twin towers and success of american presidents have been embroiled in these. and these conflicts when it comes down to jo bite, who is very keen to say, you know, i'm at the end of the label here. i'm the 4th american presence to be involved. and i'm the one who's saying that has to stop by and have a case. and car has consistently argued that the can, the mighty dollar couldn't tell them. i've got to stand into a, a process tight western democracy. that's been his consistent argument. so there are also i've been watching video for teacher by argue, but we were involved in a nation building at a price. sure. you've seen that too. so i'm not quite sure he's as consistent as you say. and so america has been made to look ridiculous and that again, to be consequences for the united states. oh the you know what is has

band which has echoes of before of saigon. so just as the follow, saigon had implications of jimmy carter and they attempted to to rescue the radian hosted cases. it's silly. they the act of looking week of it looking like chaos, which is the big danger for joe. by that he looks exposed under dec unless is that your dog? well, i mean, even if you think it was the right thing to do, it was still very badly executed. now, if you, let's look at the consequences for the american military presence in elsewhere in the what we might not start to west asia, iraq, syria, i, you know what biden has single say? no,

but the united states is not that interested in the rest of the world in that sense, adopt today? well, this is my surprise. a trunk p. m foreign policy and oscillation, hist, foreign policy. well, america's allies odd game to think about the in these areas. i'll gain a look at it and think, well, do we really want to be in an i live america or, or america generic going to abandon us. this is, this is quite a significant when china is, is steadily rising as an economic increasing. there's a political force about for breton, i mean that was a really moment when the ben wallace, the defense fact broke down and l b. c. radio. but even more revealing was, was his claim after come started to treat with the taliban. the 2nd sort of building a little tablets of coalition to support. i've got to start the government ever

feasible that you could replace the united states and that venture is another profound point we have to take away from this. i think the western countries for the time being at any rate have lost the ability or the will to take casualties on a and so they're not going to stay in a place like his dad where they can be targeted. but wouldn't the mil quite cool thing for the fame site should be doing? would be sending the royal regiment of scotland to hold the airport for the few days. instead of theater i think about hold to hold, to hold the country for years. i take my hat off in a way to what i see. he saw that clearly been a split between the united states and britain, brendan breton. why hang on? and i think the, the, the ethic rapid to see of this collapse in the scenes we've seen at the people trying to scape double them, was a sense of honor towards afghans who have supported the british west and

presence. i think britain, to its credit actually has felt more of that since, than i'm afraid the united states comes to compare and contrast the united states ambassador who reportedly scuttle as soon as he could. and that's a deep moment of shame to the state department. i should say in united states, which he represented against the british ambassador who was still there last year around as long as the signing visa form had actually is a britain has conducted itself partly due to this splendid emissary. we have a couple with great on about how about the russian on boston who's sale of the street car bill. yes. and i would say, i know why the early it's very nice. but the taliban appear to be behaving with great restraint. must be no bloodshed in the bowl, but the reports as well. but it looks there's been a big disjunction,

actually between press reporting of this and all about con age of the taliban. and what we've actually seen, which has been much more restrained. so from including towards women, it's very early days, may be getting false report. now, i the russian ambassador this day i would points why we would leave at the moment because the band is, is not taking. it is not good committee assets, committing atrocities that we can see. certainly nothing, couple person, not the single significant claim that the coalition forces could make that the, the has been an improvement in the life chances of, of so many afghan, the women over the last 20 years. and there's the, any real hope, the freedoms they've enjoyed. and they education they have been entitled to will some, any hope that will continue on the taliban?

i agree with you and charlie. i think that is an enormous achievement. it's not just the west. i think a lot of this is framed in terms of the westman, but we're talking about a country which has its own traditions and independence funds and magnificent, sexually lovely people in a very beautiful place. by the way, i way you could always in my considerable experience expect to get lot of hospitality and and yes, wonderful change towards education for boys and girls in particular because that wasn't the lot before. it's been a great advance cobble itself was even think, go back 20 years. it was pretty well destroyed. i know it's quite a flourishing looking city in many ways. so it's those, these changes, and i think that the, the privatization presence has done some good. it's early days,

but he really hopeful in that way and that would be indicated be that extraordinary press conference a couple of days ago where the taliban gave all sorts of assurances of no reprisals . so the life would go on and the more effective government that relo to the western press. cool by surprise, that is not what i made a nonsense of a lot of the western press reporting, which was stuck in these kind of oriental, this sort of reporting a subject matter which say what i need capable is dictating through western eyes. and i said, there is every reason that's the, this will be a different kind of country than the one which existed a 25 years ago. but let's see that on the impact of the power button, victor, the on afghanistan, the neighbors pakistan and protect lemon. tomba the towel,

by now have an army of 65000 people. thanks to the medical state department in the pentagon. surpassingly well equipped from headache and weapons. is this a flag to the neighbor? so we'll, we'll be celebrations and pakistan that the taliban matress, pakistan has got a marriage. it's relationship with the new regime and topple and, and i would associate will do so in a sensible way. and i don't think it's our business to try and tell pakistan what to do. that's what's george bush shooting threatened to bomb pakistan into the stone. i said that the president shut off. will this, these people did tiny, 20 years ago. and i hope that we have the wisdom to leave pakistan to manage its connection with looking at the sweep of history when the, all the details are written, the story is understood. where will this fetter enough gamma stands?

his stay will be just another attempt invasion by another form into local, which was a venture to repel the life. and i've got a stand will go on. will this be the, the last time some the mark to come to? well, last for the time be various british m fees. you really ought to know that his name and we'll be going back. you know, since but up the other question i would put amend the the russians got thrown out of afghanistan and that was the end of the saw here. is it was the is the americans suffering this scale of this and and afghan is going to be the end of the american? certainly i think it is in the, in that part of the world i think the but it still deep implications for the what

we no longer coldly middle east should start to call west asia. i think the americans again to retrieve on themselves. i think america, united states, to collapse in the way the soviet union did, but i think it's going to have a different perspective on the walls, this robot. thank you so much for joining me. once again. malik salmon show modern staff the years ago, soviet fits, withdrew from afghanistan and desolate. what followed was the total collapse of the soviet empire. this week it was america, not allies who took the fled from to this place, said the end of the american empire. but at least of america as a dominant little poem, the appetite to impose its military will worldwide. however, if this was humiliation from america, it will not alone in the embarrassment lushly entire western media was systemically

predicting blood bought enough, got to stand well to be faced by victorious taliban, who sounded conciliatory, even magnanimous in a moment, to miller, to try and maybe of course of the one word from the taliban will be replaced by the center of the barbarism and maybe that lives and women or girls in the country will become increasingly difficult and all of the great gains made in education and basic human rights. so a bit of f hub of the ellis science did not seem to point in this direction. right? no, the question should be exactly what the 3500 coalition troops, the more than 65000 africa and forces. and the 200000 civilians die for the sacrifice was used by the leaders to prop up a vino, decadent and totally corrupt puppet government. that river of blood to squarely in the hands of those who supported this long, desultory neo colonial conflict. and then the treasury expanded $900000000000.00 by

america. 50000000000 by the u. k. and 20000000000 by germany. that sort of expenditure on construct of targeted aid could have tons of galveston into a part of the day. so f lifted countless millions across the planet, poverty and misery. of course, the competence in this later stuff gotten was have an obligation to take and then never to bill x this of refugees. however, the important issue is not just the 10s of thousands fleeing, but the fate of the 50000000 afghans will stay in the country. perhaps this time, after 20 long years for the western little to develop a viable non military strategy to improve the lot of the people of i've got to stop . and so from to me, not myself and all at the show as good bye for know, stay safe. we'll see all again next week. ah, me

. oh, the americans love buying homes. ah, this was a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country, large understood the bargain. you get a whole and then you will rebel, right as the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. the really interesting to dial back and think about the longer, deeper history of what housings meant in the united states. not just that old question of the american dream,

but the bigger question of who the dream has been for the complex sees nor chaos is desperate parents show the past the children to american soldiers hoping to give them a better chance of a new life. the u. s military easy tig us to disperse those massing at the feel thing at risk of being over run a 1000 should remain stranded in afghanistan. governments around the world are facing criticism for the slow response to the crisis from the german nationally begging for rescue for both him and this afghan fiance. we have let us finally leave this caliphate give me and my fiance permission to enter germany.