miss of the past week reinforce that any u. s. military involvement, i guess, and now was the right decision. mixture of cannot and should not be friday, you know, or, and dine in a war that afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves. the president was making the best of a bad job. but you can't the fence actually been wallace was more emotional when he broke down on a local radio station. men and women of our armed forces are risking their lives in doing that. but that is the right thing to do. they bridge the last 20 years and you know, the very least that obligation has to be as many of the people through the pipeline as possible. but i think i also said yes. and it's a reading polygraph to me that some people get back, some people get back and we will have to do our best and 3rd countries to processes . because this is somewhat surprising, since there is no evidence at all that the evacuation centered cobble airport was

even under track despite the key or 16th of people desperate to me. when the commons met on wednesday, the image was somber with the air full of recrimination. they gave their rule for our safety and we owe it to them to give out to prevent afghanistan from once again becoming a breeding ground. baterri. yeah. because no matter, no matter how grim the nephews of the past, the future is not yet written. can i just bring him back to the statement by the president of the united states the other day? does he not agree with me? this took on the terms really of a sort of shameful excuse. when he blames the afghan forces, who have lost nearly 70000 in trying to defend africa. and when corruption had

stripped away much of their pay, their money, their support, and the american decision to withdraw the aircraft cover was almost certainly going to leave his. does he not think that that is shameful? the partition of people will have to live with the consequences of the prime ministers. plato, we have fought for 20 years to read off kind of para, para, which threatens our security here in britain and liberty. and i'm going to stop the taliban back in control. the promise has no plan how to handle the situation just as he had no plan to prevent it. what we won for 20 years of sacrifice could all be lost. the cost mister speaker of chat with leader in july of this year president by going on to go find the prime minister indicated that they did not think that the taliban was ready are able to take over control of the country. was our intelligence really?

so whole was on understanding of the government, so weak was our knowledge of the position on the ground. so in other words, oh, did we really believe this? or did we just feel that we had to follow the united states and hope the dog went to press? it would be all right on the night. i'm sad to say that the skin owns last night by the government, and today by the fine minister doesn't go near far enough or fast enough. that could only be right, that the number of refugees we welcome here reflects the share of the responsibility the u. k. government has for the foreign policy disaster, the west mr. parties seem to agree that the u. k. sure was know to open its doors today few days. oh, very laudable. but it will leave some 38000000 guns still in their own country. however, there was little reflection from the current crop of m piece on the wisdom of the

decision 20 years ago. not just to defeat the taliban, but to attempt to occupy a nation build this country. this task was embarked to point despite every clear lesson of history to make alexander the great to the british empire, to the soviet union. every invading army marched into the gun on easily and every one came out. bloody. meanwhile and cobbled victorious taliban confounded their critics by often conciliation instead of barbarism. this is what they had to say. i want to give assurances to all competitors, those on the positions side as interpreters involved in military actions or those who health and civilian sectors. we have granted them all amnesty. we don't want to take revenge on any one and those youths who are talented and from the soil. we don't want them to leave never. they are a valuable asset. they must stay in the country, god willing, and according to share a law, we will that women work and participate in activities. women are the main symbol of

our society. we respect them. women who participate in different sectors of society, although according to the sarah law. so this think for the taliban game set and much in the military campaign and round one and the new propaganda war which has largely placed it for 20 years, commented to peter or born has followed the conflict and have gone on from the dawning of operation. enduring freedom until this week's total collapse. today he speaks to alex about the real lessons behind this week's epic. it's robin, thanks once again for joining me. i'm alex allen. show the real pleasure out of this momentous time. let's go back to the beginning of the 20 years ago in the aftermath of 911. this coalition put together natal involvement takes over afghanistan. but to there was to fight in the summer, been latin, and stop. i forgot to stun it. being a,

a base for international terrorist action. basically what happened? remember, it was a very, what executed operation to begin with. it's on the back of vanished almost at once . and the collection of the conservative surrounding george bush embarked on the enterprise, which the rack and calamity around the world. but they shortage. i mean, i remember the debates and the commons in 2001 and i took my cell phone in time, the time dateable, voice and the totally back benches. and these days all of us and many more said look, jeremy colbin. i think let's just give a little nod. i mean coby and although said, look, beware of mission creep. do the job and get out. was so many illustration from

history from alexander the great to the, the british empire, to the soviet union. why an f and did people think it was going to be any different this time around? it is bizarre. i, it was the british in a funny way, who pushed it the 2nd time around when they basically they were being driven to iraq. you remember about 20056, and i think they wanted to retain a row. and so they suggested disastrous that we went to the province, which is one of the bulk of the very great british soldiers lost our lives. you know that you eat, i remember discussing it with you at the time because of the involvement of scottish regiments you're an old off guy hand. you've made a film about the taliban. i'm and the 10 years ago you who you are making a film saying a waiting for the taliban. when you made that film back in 201011. was

a widespread expectation. even at that time that the taliban would be back. i think so was i think there was never any the the asked about have not gone away like any director on it and just retreated into the into the population. but it was a very, very memorable experience was no one having the honor of speaking to ordinary. what we did in the new young go. so a young women who were going to school and envisage years, or is as low as, or as bankers or as products issues or a school teachers offices. then they were really afraid already they were thinking, but life, they were experiencing threats and so on. and to them the rest of the band they told us was really, really an awful thing. but at the same time i spoke to a little businessman and particularly in cobble where the exact opposite. they said

we can't run a business under the kyle of the car car, cars i government. so when you know the store sion, the corruption kid, not threats, horrible tortures inflicted on them. and they not because they supposed to the band, but they did remember the under the account to be lower, no doubt. and that is a, it's very easy for those of us in, in western countries where we can take for granted an element of law and order to think it as a matter of trying to run a business with organized crime games coming. asti, you all the time, it's a different matter. i think to me, i was very struck by the desire of decent people just to get to, to return to no margin for them the preferable no matter she was the kind of,

well i can say it, i'm sure the low to sit. because the initial in was generally supported across the house and parliament, an cross party basis. i of this was unusual for me as a s and p politician at that time i was, i was given the security briefings and i can say for definite information being relied on for the topography of fast galveston was mapping done by the british forces. evelyn 1900 century. so the plan to miss the maps was still in the, in the ministry of defense. why wasn't the the wisdom retaining this well, this might not be the place to get into over the long term. this is a momentous moment because we are now running up to the 20th anniversary, next month is a 20th of last year. and i believe, and i little evan led us to speak and see to the iraq disaster to the

afghanistan disaster to the unknown sort of time to actually maybe to bolivia, disaster. and i think what they, the mistake made was to see the a path on the twins as an act to wool launched by and undefined muslim islamic. and the may actually what it was was a very successful and a terrorist attack. and the mistake made by the bush administration and assisted by any bland others, was regarded as an act of war. now, even to be pursued as kind of tara terrorism, authoration, it would have been successful. and the world, remember, was, was so much in sympathy with the united states in september 2001, i mean they've been around was very,

the offering assistance against the time. and those friendly advances were repudiated by the united states, which chosen stand to embark on this nonsensical war classroom civilizations, adventure in which thank he, on what they saw as a, an organized muslim an enemy, which actually didn't exist ably once in a few school. archiver authors chips existing in an iran by the end of 2000 to $1.00 join us at the break. when alex continues his discussion with journalists and broadcaster, peter o'brien will see that the

the follow up on something we've been talking about for a while and that is the lack of leadership, but never ending money printing the welcome back. alex, in conversation with peter over about the ongoing situation in afghanistan. let's look at the, the implications firstly for america. because this guy, the story began in the tack and the twin towers. successive american presidents have been embroiled in these and these conflicts that comes down to jewel bite,

who is very keen to say you, i'm at the end of the label here. i'm the for, for medical president to be involved. and i'm the one who's saying that has to stop by and have a case. and car has consistently argued that the can, the mighty dollar couldn't tell them. i've got to stand into a prototype, western democracy. that's been his consistent argument. so what i'm going to be there also, i've been watching video for teacher guys and argue that we were involved in a nation building at a price show. you seen that to? sorry, i'm not quite sure. he's as consistent as you say. and so america has been made to look ridiculous and that again, to be consequences for the united states. oh the you know what is has a band which has echoes of the full of saigon. so just as the follow,

saigon had implications. all of jimmy cost, the attempt to, to rescue the iranian hostage cases. it's really the, the act of looking week of it looking like chaos, which is the big danger for joe bite. and he looks exposed and ridiculous. is that your dog? well, i mean, even if you think it was the right thing to do, it was still very badly executed. now, if you, let's look at the consequences for the american military presence in elsewhere in the what we might not start to a west asia, iraq, syria, i, you know what it biden has single said no, but the united states is not that interested in the rest of the world in that sense, adopt today? well, this is my surprise. i a trump p. m foreign policy and oscillation, hist,

foreign policy. well, america's allies odd game to think about the in these areas. i'll gain a look at it and think, well, do we really want to be in? and i live america or, or america generic going to abandon us. this is, this is quite significant when china is, is steadily rising as an economic, increasingly as a political source. i have been for britain, i mean that was a really moment when the band wallace, the defense fact broke down and l b. c. radio. but even more revealing was, was his claim that after i started to treat with the taliban, he actually considered building a little tablets of coalition to support. i've got to start the government of a feasible that you could replace the united states. and that venture is another profound point we have to take away from this, i think. but western countries,

the time being at any rate, have lost the ability of the will to take casualties on a. and so they're not going to stay in a base like afghanistan where they can be targeted. but wouldn't the mil quite cool thing for the fame site should be doing? would be sending the royal regiment of scotland to hold the airport for the few days. instead of think about, hold to hold, hold the country for years. no, i said my up in a way to what he he saw that clearly been a split between the united states and britain. why to hang on? and i think the, the, the ethic rapid to see of this collapse in the scenes, we've seen the people trying to skype double. there was a sense of honor towards the afghans who, who have supported the british west and presence. and i think britain, to its credit actually has felt more of that since warner, than i'm afraid the united states comes to compare and contrast the united states

ambassador who reportedly scuttled as soon as he could. and that's a deep moment of shane. so the state department, i should say, in united states that she represented against a british ambassador who was still the last year around as long as the signing visa form actually is a britain has conducted itself partly due to this splendid emissary. we have a couple with great on about how about the russian? i'm boston who's fell free of the st. cabal. yes. and i would say, i know why the early, it's very early days. but the taliban appear to be behaving with great restraint. there's been no bloodshed in the bowl, but the report says, well, it looks there's been a big disjunction, actually between a press reporting of this and all about con, age is kinda bad. and what we've actually seen,

which has been much more restrained so far, including towards women, it's very early days, may may be getting false report. now, i the russian ambassador this day, i would point why we would leave the maintenance because the band is, is not taking not committing assets, committing atrocities that we can see. certainly nothing, couple person, not the single significant claim that the coalition forces could make that the, the has been an improvement in the life chances of, of so many afghan, the women over the last 20 years. and there's not any real whole the freedoms they've enjoyed. and the education they have been entitled to, well, is there any hope that that will continue on the taliban? i agree with you and charlie. i think that is an enormous achievement. it's not just the west i. i think a lot of this is framed in terms of the westman,

but we're talking about a country which has its own traditions and independence and magnificence, sexually lovely people in a very beautiful place. by the way, where you could always in my considerable experience expect you can get lot of hospitality and whoa. and yes, the wonderful change towards education for boys and girls in particular because there wasn't a lot before. it's been a great advance cobble itself was even think, go back 20 years. it was pretty well destroyed. and now it's quite a flourishing looking city in many ways. so it's these changes, and i think that the, the privatization presence has done some good. it's looking, i mean, early days, but he really hopeful in that way and that would be indicated be that extraordinary press conference a couple of days ago where the taliban gave all sorts of assurances of no reprisals

to life would go on. and the more effective government that relo to the western press, cool by surprise, that it know what i made a nonsense of a lot of the western press reporting, which was stuck in these kind of oriental lists reporting of subject. so which say, well, i need capable of dictating for western eyes, and i said there is every reason to hope that the this will be a different kind of country than the one which existed a 25 years ago. let's see that all the empire, carla, bon victor, the on afghanistan, near neighbors pakistan in particular in taba the taliban know, have an army of 65000 people science to the medical state department and the pentagon, superbly well equipped from havoc and weapons. is this

a flag to the neighbor so it will be celebrations and pakistan that the taliban modem, naples, pakistan has got marriage, its relationship with the new regime and topple and and i would associate will do so in a sensible way. and i don't think it's our business to try and tell your staff what to do. that's what's george bush shooting threatened to bomb pakistan into the stone. i said that the president shut off the people that tiny 20 years ago. and i hope that we have the wisdom to leave pakistan to manage its connection with looking at the sweep of history when the, all the details are written, the story is understood. where will this 2nd enough gamma stands? his stay will be just another attempt invasion by another form into local,

which was available to repel them and life. and i've got a stand will go on and will this be the the last time some the march is on come to . well, last for the time be various british mc, somebody else know that his name will be going back, you know, since but up the other question i would put him in the the russians got thrown out of afghanistan and that was the end of the saw here. is was the, is the americans of suffering this scale of defeat and an afghan is going to be the end of the american socio and i think it is in the, in that part of the world i think lately, but it's still deep implications for the what we call the middle east should start to, to west asia. i think the americans again to retrieve on themselves. i think

america, united states to collapse in the way the soviet union did. but i think it's going to have a different perspective on the walls. this robot, thank you so much for joining me. once again. malik salmon show, jerry modern staff years ago. soviet tips withdrew from afghanistan and desolate. what followed was the total collapse of the soviet empire. this week, it was america, not allies who tub and fled from to fullest, precedes the end of the american empire. but at least of america as a dominant little power with the appetite to impose its military will worldwide. however, if this was him, at least from america, they were not alone in the embarrassment. luckily entire western media was systemically predicting a blood bath and i've got to stand old to be faced by victorious taliban, whose sunday, conciliatory, even magnanimous in a moment to miller,

to try and maybe of course of the one word from the taliban will be replaced by the center, the barbarism and maybe that lives and women or girls in the country will become increasingly difficult. and all of the great gains made in education and basic human rights will be the vest. hover the ellis signs did not seem to point in this direction. right, no, the question should be exactly what the 3500 coalition troops, the more than 65000 off gun forces. and the 200000 civilians die for the sacrifice was used by the leaders to prop up a vino, decadent and totally corrupt puppet government. that river of blood to squeal in the hands of those who supported this long, desultory neo colonial conflict. and then the treasury was expanded $900000000000.00 by america, $50000000000.00 by the u. k. and 20000000000 by germany. that sort of expenditure on construct of targeted aid could have tons of gonna stand into

a part of the day. so f lifted countless millions across the planet, i don't pull up the misery. of course, the competence in this later stuff gotten won't have an obligation to taking that never to bill x. this of refugees have of the important issue is not just the 10s of those flick for the sake of the theft, a 1000000 afghans will stay in their own country. perhaps this time, after 20 long years for the western little to develop a viable non military strategy to improve the lot of the people up i've got to stop . and so for this mean i'm a self and all at the show as good bye for know, stay safe. we'll see all again next week. ah, me

the driven by dreams shaped by those with me in me dares thing. we dare to ask me. ah, all you got some years ago

when you said that i could pull it up to google. i don't feel like she was going to show you. so you didn't know how to put it in the other molar. that's what you will cover. the 1st will, i don't know if i'm in your wish to be so much not although a lot nobody me on the fact that you gave me your partially hon. ah,

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ah active bomb threat situation in washington dc where i'm on a pickup truck nic capitol hill said he's got an explosive in twice to wipe out the surrounding your blogs. you come on to speak to the president, jo, boys of the a couple more details for parents tried to talk to us. so just hoping to give them a better chance of a new life. the new all the us military uses pick out the monthly field thing with being over, ron, for the families that last lot, one to the conflict in afghanistan. and unto.