is that there is no time in nature by itself in the, from the mental level. let me make an example. if i see the sun does not mover. it still does not move. it does not mean that there is no sunset anymore. we still see the sun going up and going down and going up and going down. but we understand that it's not really the sun, which is moving. it's a complicated story between us and the sun we are sitting on on a big rock which is spinning. so from our perspective, we see this on moving the movement of the sun that we see is real, but is not part just of the sun alone. and the same is about time time. it's a more complicated story that what we usually think, that's what physics has shown that time is different than what we usually think. so the time of our everyday life is not really nature nature. the kind of, it was more complicated than let me give you an example. suppose you have

a clock or watch and gives time, and we will know that the, the property of clock to that they measure time. so this is the same time for all of them, if, if i look at them and they have the same time and i look again, they have the same in time. well, actually, if you measure precisely, that's not true. if we take 2 good cox, not these one, this is my grandfather watch is not particularly good. a good, well, we make one a little bit higher and wait a little bit. and then come back and we look at them. they're not, they don't indicate the same time because there's more time up here, the time down there. and these can be measured today in, in, in the laboratory. so time is different than what we think the time of our usually modulation is false, is an approximation is like the setting of the sun, right? but we're actually going to come back to this experiment

a bit later. but before we get deep into the more scientific aspect of what your notion of time is, i just want to, you know, get it right for us playing humans. because for me, the biggest proves that time exists will at least the way we feel it is us and our bodies aging, and us eventually dying. i mean, we're part of the nature, right? we're part of the bigger picture as well. i believe that like i'm part of something huge and that huge is part of something that is me. so would you deny that time in that sense exists also for me even though that i'm part of that huge nature thing that you were talking about. but tommy, i don't, i don't mean to say i don't, and i don't, i think you said it very correctly time. it's easy for us. we age is more than that. we remember the pastor, right. and we think about the future and we know we're mortal. so we have all this

for, you know, ahead about our life that the past, the present, the future. this is all real, but regard us, that's not the way a star leaves. the star does not remember the passive does not expect about the future. so we are part of nature and weak stealing things, which depend on our own natural properties and not universal. we make another example that's the up direction, right, and that's a down direction. is that false? no, of course is it's true. i mean, that's up and that's not and things fault or we're down. but i'm in canada, you're in georgia. when i point up, if you point up, you're pointing a different direction. so which one is a to up, you know, look the same, but in reality we are pointing in different directions because yours,

his round of course. so we point in different direction. so which one is to up with a 0 to up is up to me in an up for you. and if we, if your bladder was floating on, asked on our side the set up for him doesn't mean anything because for he more direction. so the see there's no up, so there's no up in the universe. the unit doesn't have an up direction and a down direction. but there is an apple, me, which is one direction, is an up for you in another direction. in the same time, they don't global time in the unit. the unit doesn't have a time, but we creatures the already environment. and if he then there is a long story around. so we experience a local thing, which is our own time. and if you look very, very carefully, we see the differences, even from a time different altitude. can i ask you something? so why does time is this doesn't exist at the microscopic state of things, right?

have a direction, i mean, why is it never pointed backwards? and oh, this is a great question. it's a, it came as a surprise in, in the development of physics slowly that time is different than that than our usual way you're thinking. so this is i said the time goes to a different speed and it was understood about 100 years ago. and ice thing is the 1st one that and he 1st got to this idea directly to try to match various things. we know about metro, but now we measure in the laboratory. so it's not an idea biology study something we've something true that we can measure. but even before that break surprise was that those are physics, do not distinguish the past or the future. that's so strange because for us, the past is completely different for the future right bus to fix it. we're going to

change it. i was born some date, i cannot change. it was the russian revolution at the beginning of last century. and that's it. the future seems open so they think completely different stories, but physics does not distinguish the past from the shooter. so there was a lot of discussion what this means. and it turned out that the difference between the past and future only come comes about when we don't look at all the details. that's what we do all the time because we don't see the individual atom moving. then the, the big story all thinks moving in in one direction, and this is what this is. this is called the, the growth of entropy. this is a name before, for this difference between the past and future that we use in physics. that is

hard to conceive that because we think in terms of past and future. but once again, it's because we are very big things compared to, to the actual said the molecules. do you see the new knowledge fill? when would you? is it possible, theoretically, whatever is going on in their normal to police idea of answer be yes, let it. and he took the idea which is the basis of an idea, correct? which in principle, it could be possible to move toward the possible to the future by, by playing with him to be by changing the arrangement of the molecule. so in principle is true. but then of course, he made a movie which is absurd, the because we cannot arrange the molecules in the way. so it's a bit of, so the hollywood stuff, just a lot of fantasy in the movie and i found it a little bit confusing and complicated that the beauty of the problem of what

fascinates also all of us about time is that these all this complexity, these are some to mask to find which is in the mechanical things in determining mix of things. and now when you have many, many outcomes moving in, in our brain. and even in college, i would say because you, you started and i think that was really good. you said we, we, time for us is of a growing old them. and you know, time for us is also what takes away everything we have, right. we know that we're going to lose everything we really are today. we're going to die. all the people we love will not be going to be there. we're going to be there. so there is a sort of inside the end of the same time. time is also what brings a thing. so we have a very emotional connection of the way we are we, why are doing our, you know, a brain is that we are attached to go graph something in, in, in the future and the fear of losing something in the past. and i think when you

said kind them, that would be mean to large extent. so this is i'm a physicist finds but i think this is make a mistake mix i mistake. if you say think that ok, i don't want to think about psychology. just look at the motion of things and then you don't see any more. what time is for us time for us is a lot this emotional aspect of time. but whether we're going to take a short break right now, when we're back, we'll continue talking to professor, got a little rally, theoretical physicist, best selling author, we're talking about does time exist, stay with us. the ah,

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is andree will have fairly big long in any fact he end up killing himself. i don't live on a lease and then you go buy a car. well, and i will make a little was i didn't know if they get lucky to me me thing in it will because neither of the one who did the they didn't even notice whether they call to do this. no, but i know the company just wasn't going whatever did it

and we're back talking about the notion of time. is it an illusion, or does it truly exist? talking with professor cavaloni valley as theoretical physicist and best selling author, professor. each time also is mostly a human perspective because emotion is a very humanly thing, grade, or even a delusion in some sense. how come physicists like yourself, use it to find out what exactly happened during the big bang. i don't know, it always fascinated me when i read about how these are that appeared on the 2nd or 3rd nanosecond after the big bang is all that also a delusion? well, it also 5 in a me, it's a big part of my job to try to figure out what happened near the big bank. and

that's part of my daily daily work to, to sort of contribute to the study of what happens when we study the big bang tried with long ago. what does it mean? i mean, we say that big bang was what? 1314000000000 years ago. well, it means that if we take all the clocks and we go back in time, they're different. but on average, if you go back 14000000000 years, so that's a big bank. and then we get confused precisely because of the big banga. it was so hot, so compressed the, when a quantum situation is a very different physics than the one we used to, the deep in a quantum gravity, the gene that even the finish. this notion of time, you so good anymore. we have to change it a little bit. maybe we're not, we don't, we haven't figured out exactly what happened at the beginning. perhaps there was no

time at all. there you just started typing. so these are trying to equations that tell us what happens to compare with observations of the sky and come up with a good story. and one of the difficulty is precisely what you said, that the usual notion of time, even the physical one, the one in the actual equation in the newton equation, the $11.00 studies at school. when one study physics, you know, a pendulum moves in time, even that notion of time is not good anymore at the big bang. so that's for me, the beauty of physics. it forces us to rethink our basic notions. sometimes in a computer clear way. we have understood, right, it's a copernicus tell us, we're not still we're moving and so on, so forth. sometimes like today we're, we're the border of what we know and even the notion that we use are not clear. so not everything is clear about time. what exactly happened with the time of the big

bang? it's this is a topic of discussion. but can i ask you something because who sat previously? yeah. that you know, the time never goes backwards. it's always goes forward, right? so times an error which is moving forward, do we remain static in reality because there is no time really or, or are we moving along with it? no, i don't think we remain static. and it's not that easy when, when i say, when you say sometimes there is no time people try to imagine. all right, so the universe is just a block is down there and nothing happens. but that's the wrong imagination. because if nothing happens, what you're really thinking is that there is a rock there in time, passes in the rock doesn't change. so nothing happens. it's a way of thinking kind passes, but nothing changes. and the correct imagine issue is the opposite.

universe's change unit is happening to a lot of things happening in the universe. just imagine a, just a mini mini happenings, but they're not all do it in a common time. this sort of disorder. it's our way of organizing, then a lot to memory in 2017 to be shown that we read the, the fool of hopping of the universe, a single sequence of things happening. that's a mistake. but there's no there's no uni when i say the sum doesn't move right. we live at school, i mean to the motion. we see the sun going up and down up and down every day. and then we're kids. we go to school and the teacher or father mother, tell us, you know, it's an illusion. the son doesn't move. does that help mean that the some in the sky ball blocks and he's not going to move any sound, keep going around is,

this is not the sun has got more is just more complicated story. i want to also use the example of music. if i'm a right, it's a thing that doesn't really exist, but only does because it is happening in time, right? like instruments play together in a rhythm or a pulse that brinks time alive. and we only feel something when music changes in time. and on changing node becomes a drone and stops having meaning, like, you know, my refrigerator making a noise. so if an elementary physics level time doesn't matter or doesn't exist, why does it matter on a non elementary lever, on the, on a level of music, for instance, this music essentially create time. this is a great question. and in fact, you know, in the she still, you're thinking about time music play, played a huge role. suppose you hearing music. okay? it's song. and in some moment,

right now you're hearing one note. not, not the full folk. and then in the next moment, you're hearing one note. so you may be hearing the song. you only hear one note at the time, every moment you hear one note. so why do you react to the, to the song. ok, there's many song up there in the, in nature, at every moment. there's only one note at the time. i mean, these was before harmony. most of music was just melodic. ok. so what is the answer? the answer it's, if you think for a moment is obvious. when you hear a note, your brain still remembers the previous notes, right? so what you're hearing and you think of the melody, just think of your preferred melody in a moment that you, you hear a sound, but at the same time you remember the previous one them. so if you think of the time, the minute itself is really a memory stuff is not, you know, there,

it's in your memory that stay together out there. there's one more to the time. and this shows that a lot of our our feeling and perception of temporality is connected to the fact that we remember. and in a sense, if you want it, let me put it in some way. a stoner cannot hear music because he doesn't have memory to heal. to hear music, you need a memory and memory quite brain or a computer that has memory not, not the brain because we are spiritual, thinks different from, from the rest of nature. i think that we are just pieces of nature, like everything else, but we are very, it's the corner pieces of nature with a lot of wiring and mural and stuffer. and is this p clarity that allows music to exist in a very precise since music, it can only exist because we have this many brain which remembers and he's all not

only that because when you hear music, i think everybody knows those music. you hear a piece of melody and your brain anticipate what would come next. and music is all a game that the music is coming in park. it comes to what you expect. ok, the next lot you know what it is, so you're happy that you get it any pocket surprises you because you come something is all this game of surprising and satisfaction which, which makes music. so music, it's great. in some sense, this doesn't mean that there aren't found ways moving around. that's all true. that's a real, but what we call music, and it's what you me with all that brain. so interesting. so thank you. on your the, the, the experiment you just showed me with your watches. right? yes. i mean, the whole thing, religious blows my mind because, i mean,

i see time as something universal, right? like a minute is the same here in georgia, as it is. i don't know somewhere new delhi, 9 hours on the plane to new york would be the same 9 hours here, a nurse. if there is a difference in this speed of time, why don't we feel it? i mean, how far above do i have to climb to feel the difference and will my subjective perception? you talk about memory, but i feel like perception is also a big thing that actually distinguishes time. will my subjective perception of time even allow me to feel it even if i'm high enough? yes. so let me have both questions 1st 1st to the 2nd one and then what would your subject is perception match that? yes, absolutely. there is a, there are some movies interstellar phrases in which the hero

has a goose near as heavy things and so time slows down a lot for him. so when he comes back for him, a few days, a pastor and when he comes back, ears as pastor. and in fact, at the end of the movie, he comes back to earth and finds his little daughter who has become an old lady. so the main character is still a man in his middle age and his little daughter now has become an old lady. so the subjective perception of time has been completely free for the 2. so absolutely were certain of that, this is solid physics implant. is that now you asked? well wait a moment, why don't we proceed that? i mean, as you say a minute for use a minute for me in a minute try. well, the reason is because as long as we stay on earth, so georgia, canada daily or we go to the mountain know, 8 or if the highest these differences in really small,

extremely small. any fact in my, when i teach physics i gave to my students, sometimes the x exercise will compute what is the difference of time. you rather go up to live in the mounting, the highest village you can imagine. and then it comes down after the 50th and what the difference of time is. so they compute the difference is just a fraction of a 2nd. so too small for our to get it. but if you have instrument, you can measure it and we do measure it. and this spectacular thing is even today, we can measure it, not just a mountain, but even 20 centimeters higher. 20 symptom, it's slower. we can see that this clock goes faster. this clock or fluid. and when, you know, the gps, the listing we use, you know, drive the car, the locators, it worked with some satellite. and when the satellites were put up there,

and the beginning was americans in the seventy's and then it was done, you know, by the rush of the chinese, the indians. now we have, are they many systems like that when americans good, the 1st satellites up there. this is just tools engineering careful because up there times goes faster. and since there's a clock in the, in the satellite, because essentially what happens is, you know, subtle. i was o'clock and the beams down the time. and then your little machine uses that to locate yourself. and if you, this is still very careful because time there goes, goes faster, they adopted the system, but that wasn't the hand of the military in some general in the american military said, oh, come on, this is silly time, go faster. i don't believe that. so the beginning, the, the 1st satellites, experimental one will put that they had to then switch. they could keep this into account or not. and it did doesn't work. if you don't keep this into account. so

technologically you today, your, when you drive the car and you have the gps system that tells which where you're going, the system works in a way that keeps into account the fact that up there time goes faster. so it's part or what acknowledge you today really fascinating a professor. i wish i had another 3 hours to talk to the notion of time. but it's been really interesting to at least touch a little bit into the notion of that and perception of time. and what is it doesn't exist as an illusion. thank you very much for this wonderful insight. and i wish you all the best of luck, and i hope we get to do this again soon. thank you. i hope so as well, and thank you for your precious which are very much of the point. and this is a fascinating tool because i hope to talk to you again. definitely thanks a lot. be safe.

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as the things you don't revolt, if you have a stake in the system, be really interesting to dial back and think about deeper history of what housings meant in the united states. not just that old question of the american dream, but the bigger question of who the dream has been for me all the ah

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