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ah mm mm mm i welcome to all the parts hard times, always bring out the bass and the worse than people and governments. i mean, this sounds because it's $900.00 conduct, seems to be a pretty accurate reality check on individual countries and the world as a whole. rewarding. those who practiced and punishing those who only preached but

hold tent or carrying off to put politics back into the service of policy rather than the other way around. well, to discuss it, i'm now joined by a former brazilian president loose industrial lead. the silver mister president, if good to see you. thank you very much for talking to us by. oh, my pleasure. excellent. well, 1st of all, let me start by asking you about the situation with the corona virus because this is something that concerns people all around the world. not only in russian, brazil, but in many other countries. i know that you have been very, very critical of how your own country under your successor dealt with the corona virus pandemic. but putting present bolts in all right. aside and focusing solely on your countrymen on the brazilians. do you think that experience and brazil has had a very difficult experience with corporate 900? do you think that experience has been scaring enough to immunize your people against demagoguery and population?

or has it on the contrary and made them more susceptible to these brand of politics by your own problem, a little bit of you. the problem with brazil is that our president does not respect the science of medicine. you know, those who understand the meaning and severity of the covered 19 pandemic, paid for the president did not purchase vaccines when he could have done so. he does not believe in immunization as a way of fighting against the corona virus. of course he does not believe in isolation or in wearing mask. you know, my and i won't be the for my you will feel come back to him. it doesn't matter where the one person dies. 165000 people die, which is a number of deaths so far to be fair because of his disrespect for science. i think our president is almost genocidal. because many people died due to lack of guidance from the government, or because of its mis guidance. you cannot prove why the can. we cannot see that for killing my battery about the source. he does not believe in

a need to humanize the government. you know, for that up, you don't know if he did not define protocols. he woke up, he did not gather scientist or state and governors foyce, if he did not make any of the decisions that a democratic government that is concerned with the people would have made president will you never means worth talking about, present both an arrow and i'm sure, you, me, you have many unflattering terms to, to, to say about him. but again, my question was about the brazilian people, because if we look at the opinion, polls case, approval rating, still, harvard is around 40 percent. what is it in hand? so many brazilians respond to and do you think brazilians as a hall have changed our view of politics as a result of this very, very hard pandemic, then they have to face judy to do who is the 15?

i would rather not go into this subject of numbers and polls or point because also nora has been dropping deeply in the post with the vehicle when they asked respondents whether they approve of the government. and many times they present only be says, all excellent or good and regular. we talked about what you, when they ask, if the government is excellent, good or terrible, then it's different to get there be no pull that you still have afraid that boil scenario is experiencing his worst moment. okay. yeah. really affordable for natalie. canon's polls confirm that i would beat him in the election slim in the 1st round, and in the runoff. brazilian people behave according to the information they received. was a patient of many right wing people in brazil during bell scenario gathered around him, members of local militia groups, people who were fascist. a few stuff. people who were in favor of military dictatorships in people who are nazis,

or there's only 2 faith and really bad. many former military officials, if it's the pool, but he does have supporters, which maybe $25.00 or 35 percent to $65.00 or 75 percent. are still against him to be prepared when that is why i'm sure that democracy will, will be there democracy will win the elections on 2022 boys in the future voice. now speaking about october 2022, you haven't confirmed and decisively, but i think you've provided enough him to expect your ron for the president, sir. come october 2022. if that comes to pass, or even if it doesn't, how do you think the presidential priorities in the presidential challenges of 2022 differ from the challenges of 2003. when you secure with your 1st presidential term, all you do to kill no,

you don't. pitiful family to i said that i'm not worried about the 2022 elections. probably because we have greater issues to deal with. and 2021. them will have been going to be seen up to the battery and we're asking the vaccine for the population . i think the particles are only guaranteed to fight cobit that and bring the country back to normal. vaccines security luggage, different we're demanding, emergency aid for the population, but i got a futile unemployment is very high. there are 15000000 people without jobs and i got the noise. we had a cup and eliminated famine in brazil in 2012 for the vote. and it has returned very strongly in the country who in the 1st we must recover the brazilian people's quality of life of health and well being. we start a ball before we can think about 2022 boys. as he said,

brazil has the world's stories large as death stole, approaching half a 1000000 dead, and yet in april and brazil's house regulator visa rejected the use of the russian made vaccine scrutiny. the siding, inherent risk and serious defects, even though internationally split me is recognize as one of the safest vaccines. do you see any traces of call it takes in that decision? ill tell you, we can do it if i want us to have vaccines from the whole world and data from all countries, including the candy. i actually had conversations with carol demetrius who is responsible for the fun, which sponsors vaccine production and russia bill for the good to keep the public. i filled up a scene and i was hit, i took for former health ministers to talk with mister dmitri, of assigned to the former president of the visa and governors of the p t party.

what are you to your to go but including one from the northeast region of the unit . they are all fighting to get vaccines and have orders, at least for a transfer. we met these good. we found the seems to be a problem with production and distribution with the coffee and also with its acceptance here in brazil, yuki, all of you already have any people as suspicious that former president from recommended pro. and there is documentary evidence of it. he put a president bell scenario does not purchase the russian vaccine off in the same way that he heavily criticized chinese vaccine. finishing the over if the brazilian president was really committed to the people of his country to the he would have spoken to president putin. paula would have set up a bilateral committee with russian and brazilian experts get our phone and we would have solved the vaccination problem a long time ago. when we go over the president does not take any measures. and the truth is that he is under pressure. i cannot prove it, but it is largely visible that there is

a political impediment to purchase russian vaccines in brazil. parapro, as there was also heavy criticism towards a chinese vaccine view. dickie paid the maple leaf. well, mister president, you just connected the rejection of splitting the vaccine in brazil to the conversation between president golf and our president trump. but it was already under president biden, that the us department of health and human services in its annual report in march of 2021 boasted about having used its diplomatic muscle to quote, persuaded brazil to reject a russian cove at $900.00 vaccine, which he described as a malign influence detrimental to your safety and security. and, you know, i can on some level understand the logic of the, of the american officials. after all, they are not responsible for the house of the brazilian people. they're trying to

do what they define to be in the country of interest. but what about those brazilian officials who are charged with protecting public house? is that ok, is it even the legal in brazil to come to that kind of diplomatic pressure on public health issues? or the boy who, but if you leave the brazilian, people certainly want the rush of vaccine for go graphs. and i feel national congress has passed a decision that if the russian vaccine is approved by other countries with can be approved in brazil. they have to tell you that the number of you, the brazilian health regulatory agency, and visa kelly has determined many demands and requirements of the russian vaccine . and i played with our russian friends to submit the necessary documentation because people in brazil may need vaccines. and we do not have arguments against those who oppose the russian vaccine. if you don't have a few, not yet, it seems to me exxon or that the vaccine is about it could not make interests. and

that is an ideological war, but after gag. obviously the us defends the american companies and the u. k. defenders, the british companies what there's all them in stock. but brazil does not need to worry about defending the us. defend needs to worry about the health of the 2 big need to worry about the health of 250000000 inhabitants. i will be very, there's l, you must buy the american vaccine and the russian vaccine, as well as the chinese cuban or any other seems with scientifically proven quality too for providing. 7 the interests and health of brazilians that must be championed by the brazilian government to keep if they're not the u. s. government, i will do that. by the way, since the early 2nd semester of 2029, we signed the documents requesting breach of the vaccine pasent of important data. this in several interviews in the us, germany, france, and u. k. probably might,

but the vaccine should be turned into a public asset. the people all over the world don't be vaccinated. who bought the we have to be feeling well and that they have been a lot of talk about solidarity and equitable access to vaccines in the very beginning of this been done. but we all saw that when push came to shove, everybody was out for themselves, and it was the richest country. that's 1st and foremost, contract that vaccines for themselves, many more vaccines than they actually need that needed. and they continue forward to hoarding those vaccines, rather than sharing it with the, with the rest of their worlds. what does it tell you about the state of lead a ship in the world today? because those are the very same countries who like to preach about democracy and to preach about solidarity to preach about human lives and human rights, the value of human life. but when it comes to part times,

they seem to be only caring about their own political considerations. or crook, santa fe u, i have been following what is going on in the world. and i believe that we need to bring down this objection to sovereign countries. political faith to grow by evie forget it. brazil is not again for us, visual, but if you and we want to have partnerships and good relations with them, but we need to get their level 5. president putin also says he wants good relations with the us. my boy hello phone call. dan wants to because the hampshire get him going things we want to have a good relations with all countries who are compared to however, the us once a world in which they are the only country to determine everything of haley tiasha last week in an interview resident biden's said that the us wants to be a beacon for the globe. if you don't have all the world doesn't want to do,

none of them don't have all the well can really want all countries to be fraternal on you to develop partnerships. the property will, must be a sovereign country, will be about just like russia, china, and the us. you will be stopped. we don't want a shooter. we don't need you to know from the book. you go seem to work for, you know, that's why i've defended a change in global governance. if we must change the un security council, who i sure do, we can't continue with the same security council liquids set out in 1948 and we, we can't continue to have institutions that were created in bretton woods where institutions like the security council b. i m f and the world bank must all be remodeled with the remote people and segments participating, but also eliminate vito rights because no country is superior to any other game.

and this is what we'll do to ensure a new global governance. if i got a few that favors the poor countries democratically, if you will be enough and will go for the foreboding, they will come, come in to fight my father. the me i the americans love buying homes. i

use this with a funding, mental part of how our political leadership and our country, a large understood the bargain. you get a whole and then you know, rebel right, as the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. be really interesting to dial back and think about the longer, deeper history of what housings meant in the united states. not just that old question of the american dream, but the bigger question of who the dream has been for the me or i you mentioned to 1000000 brazilians who are out of jobs right now. and the government, when you were empowered,

was credited for lifting millions and millions out of power 10, giving them jobs. do you think the challenge right now as bigger? it's bigger than it was back in early 2, thousands and my god. okay. it's a lot bigger now. what periods when i became president in 2003, the press in brazil was bankrupt view and that i would have many problems in recovering the country that opened up. you know, if we did recover brazil condo bishop, when i left the government, the economy was growing up to 7 percent a year. when you brazil did not have any reserves. when i took office in 2003, 3, and we had $170000000000.00 in international reserves when i left. for now could the shepherd i brought up that might be few. now things are more difficult for me exactly because of this. i will be able to fix brazil view for during my administration,

i held $64.00 national conferences to define public policies that we would implement in brazil. because because you know i v d i was calling because of the conferences on culture, on health. how would you call security on indigenous people will be black. people will be naval. there was 64 conferences. and this is how we created 22000000 jobs in queue and raised salaries by 64 percent and lifted 36000000 people out of policy . and lifted 36000000 people out of poverty. we w van raised 40000000 to the middle class level to manager. if no one will fail for this is how we brought her to a barren desert region by pick up when you asked the people, if you will read and the people help you by participating, it is much easier to rule and to do things. carol, and this is how i wants to return with my party and that we can bring back the new joy and happiness and pride really being brazilian,

who do february later while we are on the issue of employment. i know that a long, long time ago when you weren't 12 years old, you started working as a shoe shine boy, and i'm sure as any 1st job, it must have left some sort of mark on you. what was his life? no. well, yes, i did. indeed shine shoes on the figure because you know, well, we are no body folk. it meant that i was able to earn enough money to buy a large piece of bread with them sausage and a soda. it went there was that was what i had for lunch duty to make the theater because you had to buy even appreciated, shining shoes and my new coffee for a long time at home when there was no food. my mother spare. yes. i would say if you wait until tomorrow, things will be better to be another. and that's how i lead my life. i think that everything can be resolved if we're willing to fight to fix things up. i believe.

well, latisha's lack of causes, commitment. will you go, mike oliver? since i don't have any personal commitments before i commitment is to try to help resilient people and working people over to improve their lives. by february, you know, by the month brazil cannot go on lagging behind the 21st century, nor we need to evolve. all we represent has a wonderful, happy population tonight and probably love music and dancing you move. we love to work the phone and respect about yeah, it will be one of the, this is the country i want to be coming back. go to vote. that's why i work so hard here. nope, i can, i ask you about the brazilian relationship with the united states because he just mentioned that the managed to have very good relationship with all sorts of leaders around the world. and the, and the united states has always had

a pretty big influence on the brazilian politics. i know that you previously accused criminal or rather linked criminal proceedings against you with the american influences. wow. if you ever come to a power again, if your party comes back to power, how do you in this is reveals, poster v, the united states. and there's a problem. i did not accuse the us problem. we have proof. most people, we have videos and recordings and documents from the us department of justice, but i mean, it would be 50 for b and from prosecutors working to see the brazilian companies to condemn me. my new phone to look for docs. i don't get w shobel and deep down economy to be, what was it? that was the increasing press and the brazilian companies in the global market. we have done my own petrograd. tried to fetch, had made the greatest oil discovery and the 21st century could get into some cells . no,

no my would like to leave this aside. you tell you that during my administration. okay, to us, did you not a metal in our affairs? maybe boys on december, the 10th, 2002. i was invited by president bush. no, i wasn't even in office. and bush was terrified. she wanted to terrorism get in to get into and he needed to invade iraq. you hope you had a preview by bush invited me to take brazil to participate in the iraq war by cuba . i hold president bush on that december. the 10th 2002 bullshit that i didn't notice today. hussein boys can know that iraq with 12000 kilometers away from my country, pick up those rebuking iraq had never done anything against brazil. glenda. my walk is not against the iraq view, but against hunger in my own country and reform. and by default, the idea of the americans being a lighthouse for the world and not letting anyone else mpg economically. no good rom, americans must know that we don't want a sheriff for

a mental health care. we want to partner of the question for you is to prevent you both. we want to be brothers and sisters show you our vote. so that's why i think the role president putin has played in global politics in recent years is very important to career, but we must not be dominated. i want russia, china, brazil, argentine around mexico to grow as well as the us respecting the freedom and sovereignty of other countries. if the p t returns to the government, well, this is how we will deal with the u. s. but present, go and do you think the united states is ready to give you that respect for sovereignty, for the right to determine your own faith to determine your own pass and development. because as you pointed out. c in many of your interviews, the americans have long treated latin america as if it were that own backyard. do

you think the united states is ready to give you that sort of vision to allow you to practice over and say, oh no. it's not up to the us me to allow us to do them with stock or we must be ready to exercise our sovereignty. there's a pretty good deal. i rules brazil during an extraordinary period as well as with chavez and venezuela. gina christina kirsten argentina. job michelle busha, la, chile, walker rafael career in ecuador and evil morales in bolivia. america before it was the best moment for south america. we've strengthened the cosa well and expelled the t a as we created a sore and silicon view and we created the bricks. why organized meetings between south america and africa and south america and the arab countries, families get up with fever by we proved that brazil could have sovereignty and international protagonist proven would be and that this could be reached without

having to off of the us. i don't, they don't have to ask permission from the us to be the owners of our own backyard . i will problem. the problem is brazil has a ruling class, an elite that is subservient. they cannot do anything without asking permission from the us. government, as i told you with a start, i have a diversity back to the us and for the american people, paper bill of america will be billable. they can take care of themselves. medical i will take care of brazil the same way that i want to rush and mr. take care of russia and chinese to take care of china. don't be noise so that we can be sovereign in a multi polar world warfare with peace and come for last many books and very little weapon talk with you about with a lot of culture and little violence. talk about it. and my last question to you, i can see a stack of books behind your back and it's very daring knowing that as a kid,

you're had to quit school fairly early and you had to help your family. and probably because of that you missed on reading some of the books that perhaps people off your age had to read. i know that you opened more universities than any other president in brazil despite having no formal education. my last question to you is this by the age of 75. have you had a chance to read all the books that you had to pass on when you were working kids or no problem? the problem is that i began to work when i was 11 years old. there was no time to read always for a long time. i felt frustrated because i wanted to go to university and become an economist or forget to quote on my choke that i'd like to be an economist because the economists to know a lot when they're in the opposition for the winter in government, they know very little you know, i say this to economists because i'd like to have

a better education study. i learned a lot my view up and you moved and i became what i am through my struggles in life . up in the week. of course, not part of if i learned a lot at the gates of the plants where i worked and one of the 5 am midnight at 1 am at noon 2 pm, but a few what i learned a lot traveling all over brazil by you. i believe nobody knows my country as well as i do, you know, in pittsburgh, i covered almost 92000 kilometers by train by boat i car by bus or so i learned a lot by talk when i listen to it was going to, i like to ask about things i don't know. i keep and i hope to continue to read everything. i didn't have a chance to read that in my early days. well, it presents always been great, great on i talking to you. thank you very much, very much for your time and best of luck with your future endeavors and travels. i hope they bring you to the place where you want to be pretty good. thank you center

and thank you for watching hope to hear again next week on was apart from me in the me ah ah ah ah

ah ah ah. the, the top stories of the week, chaos continues at cobble airport after the telephone sweeps into power and i've got to send the last protected route to fleet. the militant is reported to be clothing for the next 2 days to evacuate those already inside. meanwhile, many others desperate to use it to escape remain outside despite the devastating advance of the taliban public resistance to the next remains among those that continue to protest are many african women all in fear of their future and decay. alex pullout by the western coalition also leaves behind huge amounts of ammunition for the insurgents,

including advanced weaponry from aircraft to armored vehicles. ah