so amazon looks like monopoly trade, who i come in, boy makes money like monopoly behaves like monopoly, like amazon essentially controlled the marketplace. it's not really a market as a private arena world where a single company controls the distribution of daily products. and the infrastructure of our economy is reduce the workload according to amazon. ah ah the news

i'm action or 10 senior what you're going underground the team and i are away at the moment, but we'll be back for a new series on september the 8th until then we'll be playing some of your favorite episodes of this season coming up in the show is israeli software, bugging your phone, the editor in chief of wiki leaks, which 1st exposed spyware on android and apple phones tells us what we should do, what it means for journalism, and update on the usa is collapsing espionage case against julian detained. here in london, and did you make money out of coven? we investigate our leads, have made billions from the global corona virus pandemic. alyssa, more coming up in today's going underground, the 1st this weeks or the mainstream media. so gold collectively wring their hands about private surveillance companies up to revelations about the alleged widespread reach of the so called pegasus spyware. developed by israeli surveillance from n s o group. the delayed reaction from the media could arguably be linked to the demon zation of where helix founded julian. and you are going to view and it's

still being tortured in h m. p. bell marsh in london. but is this the latest example of what we have been exposing were private surveillance for a decade? joining me now from reykjavik in iceland is where helix editor in chief christian robinson. christian, thanks so much for coming on. i'll get to whether i should throw my phone away in a 2nd and to your jail, co founder julian assange in a moment. but what do you make of all these journalists suddenly talking about an a . so group, when, when you, when you were doing this, i don't know a decade ago, was it? yeah, i mean, we did to point out the seriousness of this business to 10 years. almost. but i mean, i'm not going to say i'm important story and now i mean they do have evidence of wrongdoing. however, i mean, for those who have been following the industry for years and years and know that actually on december 1st, 2011,

we can publish it internal documents, exposing the incredible scope for these privatized spike companies and the servers they were offering to this particular gm's and targeting activities and political opponents. and generally, so at that time, actually if you go to the website website, we can resort, or you can reflect on that. when was to be described, there was exactly the same things that we have come to the surface and get the whole attention in 2011 when the duty on asylum was a long, seamless publication. another press conference at city university in that story, but very little fraction that to me and i was very surprised at the time because it was such a strong revelation. strong story,

it has taken 10 years now to maybe reach pollution. maybe people are now ready to upset the fact that these us buy tools can be carrying. but it, this, the commercial surprise to, to us we can look at chris and i better just ask you, what should we do? you presume? here and a person of interest to us and government. so i know there's a case in spain about the surveillance by ca, linked companies of jeffrey robinson, q c. talking to julia, in a sense, you have a phone there. how frightened you? i mean, edward snowden, who you were, he thinks, help to get to safety. and moscow said, take him cut out when you tell what when you want total privacy. i mean, is that what we're supposed to do? you have to always expect that your, your phone has been metal and i have been it's very difficult to detect think than

coordinate people and it's not that easy to see. actually years ago, 11 expert in the field told me, well, i mean, the only symbol that you can sort of read into your phone has been tampered with is the fact that the battery will die and go down very quick. that means that somebody is basically using remote to your, your, your, your own device. so, spying to when i was doing regular reporting, member hearing about how the drug dealers where operating with the old mobile phones when they were meeting. because they were afraid of being under surveillance by police, they will put their phones, dental, the freezer that had the discussion. so, i mean, you should simply always assume that this is basically taking away your privacy and security. nobody is the cure. in today's world,

we just live in that environment. now, anisette group has given us a statement. they've been talking about this and they say, and it's a group, is a life on a life saving mission. and the company will faithfully execute this mission. undeterred, despite any and all continued attempts to discredited on false grounds, that's what the israeli company is saying. they used to break a p t. affiliate sex and drug trafficking rings. nothing to do with attacking new york times journalists and journalists from you know, reuters in the economist, lifesaving mission them whose lives so there's in the painters and abusing this technology to go out of the political opponents. so do not live some distance activities. we have no prob, i mean, roof about this and, and i should also say pension funds apparently here in britain invest in n s. so,

so does that mean in capitalist countries where investing, i mean, we're paying our taxes. you see that go into the military industrial complex and also private pension funds are investing in a so group, i mean, we all paying for our own we are, it's just giving, i must understand. there's only one company of many. i mean, 10 years ago we pointed the business was a multi 1000000000 dollar industry. we were calling out the pointing out the fact that this had to be regulated just the weapons industry it. nobody listened at that time. so it is unregulated and can easily be weaponized or we are calling this company, let's call it pull. what it really is. i mean, these are intelligence services. and you know, i intend to say that we should call them non state hostile intelligence services,

and the hostility is against the individuals against privacy and against the sudden dimensions of our democracy, democratic society. yeah, i mean, they say they vet their client's love, but there's another way of approaching this story. the 50000 and phone numbers which and so says is the equivalent of opening the wide pages and choosing these numbers randomly. it is that a lot of these media groups, they be accused of being involved in the government lies that get nato nations into wars. we leaks not appealing for the very information that may have been the may have been got through. and so pegasus spyware. so that we can find out the links between the journalist and so go mainstream media and the military industrial complex. the persuade, their populations into wars that killed wound or displaced tens of millions of people. i'm not going to encourage spying on journalists or all, i think it's disgusting practice. but it has been going on for quite

a long time. you pointed out to the beginning that lawyers inspired or gone by a private contractor. so could security company out of spain in the embassy, when julia massage was there. but on top of that, when there was a lot of journalists came to visit to live. we had several journals with spider on by this company and including because they had to leave their phones with his company for certainly they were used as infiltrated mist, malware and information was expected from him that case because he's in spain. obviously, we don't have guards fighting on journalists either, but you know that the u. k. god, you and your old media partner doesn't appear to be giving much prominence to a key witness in the trial here in london. one of the key witnesses for the united

states government admitting he was lying about all his allegations. why do you think the guardian is not interested in that report or any of the publications that are listed in this pegasus spyware report? i haven't seen the reuters news flash that the most famous journalist in the world, the key witness against him as admitted his line. well, it as little traction so far. i know that, you know, some of the major mainstream needed to doing without working on stories based on i just had that from the, the, the inversely of journalists who actually broke that story. so a little bit of time, it's a complicated story, but i mean, the essence of it is we, we kind of get time, can we? because there's a heat wave here in london. i don't know what the temperatures are in belmont, i don't know what the covert situation is and bell much the united nation special or apple jurors repeatedly meet on this program. and it gives british stories of being involved in torture. there is no time is if you're right, it must be free to mediately that it is absurd

that he is sitting in the prison, the victory and court. and generally for it, it's just absolutely absurd that he would be sent back to the prison, which is creating the condition which was underlying the decision by the judge to actually been my explanation. and the talking about procedure. i mean, i'm trying to the point of them and where on earth somebody sit in a jail for 6 months plus a big wiley high court is coming to the decision whether to allow an appeal or not 6 months and a half a year. that's. that's absurd. and so schuman rights violation, would be condemning and any other country. these new revelation of blowing such a hole in the narrative by the americans in the entire it's cited in the, on numerous occasions in the judge for rates are ruling on january 4th. which means

basically let be in the united states government was misleading a u. k. court. that's very syringe. ok, well the news here in britain is notes about that. in fact, the world global mainstream news had time to talk about jeff bezos going to space. that's a much more important story than the daughter of my name, as publisher in the world. maybe amazon quick to shut down a w s. their web services system for an s. so the israeli pegasus system, after having received the national, started talking about all this spyware. great success then, no problem. i know that we have often talked about amazon's close links to the intelligence services. i mean that so that, so that should not be the end of it. i mean, there must be an outcry in the public. and as we've said for 10 years and those julio's phones pointed out 10 years ago, i mean, the nice needs to be regulation is industry. ok, i'm sure amazon's ever just an online bookshop. obviously, i just, finally, i mean,

you know, time and time again, those defending wiki leaks have talked about the us constitution about norms, international norms. the secretary pretty battelle year who she was just grace previously, actually for di to israel. she has got a consultation baby here, the home office on the official secrets act that some say make, makes leaks criminal. i mean, we can always said, look, we're doing what journalists are supposed to do, you know watergate kind of things. what do you make of the possibility that governments may say, i know there's a simple way to avoid the kind of legal problems that they're having to try and imprison, assigns for 175 years, make the kind of thing that he likes to illegal per se, april, all right, well let me that is exactly what the is the essence of the indictment against julian spain, cp criminalizing journalists,

and what should be of interest in the united kingdom than people in britain. back during the tradition hearing, we saw an attempt to read the fine or, or defined the official secrets act in the same manner. so as to just look, sample is being sucked because it has to be a jewel criminology. it has before the last time somebody, what is alleged indictment has to be a crime in the u. k. so basically what, what the, what was merging out of the tradition process was re definition of the journalist alignment. and basically it's in the publishing class about information coming from a lee is a crime. so that's cream and legend journalism by remote say in the question

robinson, thank you. and as i said, n s o group has said the statement to us that there is no link between the 50000 numbers do. and so google pegasus and their technology was not associated in any way with the murder. would you mark shoji and that full statement can be found online or below this video? if you're watching on youtube after the break, forget the cayman islands or panama co founder, the tax justice network tells us whether you came the u. s. top the leader board for the best off shore attack savings in the world. all this and coming up in part to have going on the ground. ah, ah, ah,

survival guide is going to start so there you go back. oh, heck, no. refrigeration came. well, look at the rest, the 7 years bill. there was a record the welcome back, while increasing numbers had been finding it difficult to feed themselves in the u . k. a u. s. during the global current of ours pandemic, some of the, in raking in the cache is here in britain. 130000 have been killed by cove it. how? so joining me now from cambridge here is the co founder of the tax justice network and tax research u. k. director professor richard murphy. thanks so much richard for coming on. so we know that there was a scandal over the weekend about prime minister barak johnson exempting himself from the lation. we've got the health secretary, obviously with cove it and we got

a lot of stuff at the moment about the former prime minister david cameron's lobbying allegations. how corrupt has the johnson governments response to corona virus? been in your estimation? oh look, until this government came along, i had never dad call a u. k. government corrupt who was busy and that was a pretty online thing to do because it was got to be pretty risky with regard to the locals. a frankly, i don't think anyone has any concern about coding this government crop now because the evidence is over whelming, this government is pursuing its business in a fashion that is corrupted, favoring its own ministers. on some occasions with contracts, mat hancock got a contract from his own department from which he benefited something which by any reasonable definition of corruption might be involved in anti corruption campaign. in some way for 2 decades. anyone would say is unacceptable. we see for the ministers lobby in ways of frankly,

would be unacceptable in many countries. we see bar as johnson frankly distorting the true telling light slowly without apparently any concern knowing that he'll be found out who appeared to be indifferent to the consequences. so this is a government that is, in my opinion, absolutely rotten to the call that have absolutely no shred of credibility and which is bluntly pursuing policies now, which shows that it is completely indifferent to the well being of the people or the u. k. they are playing games with people in this country, putting their lines of risk, putting the lives of young people in particular risk dammit, my children, late teens and 20 children at risk because they're not really vaccinated because it wants to do something which is awfully reckless in terms of the kind of policy i, i find it hard to contain my anger with regard to this government because i think a reasonable person should be angry with this. government was, you know, bars trying to deny is not only the dominic cummings, it's 12 advisors allegations disgraced former health secretary mat hancock after

allegations about his mistress and lobbying denies all wrong doing as does the former prime minister on the former prime minister. we've got to, we went to the treasury committee saying he did absolutely nothing wrong sending messages to ministers after leaving the house of parliament, it seems on behalf of greenfield capital, which made loans of 350000000 to liberty steel which employs $3000.00 workers. i mean, why would the treasury committee itself say, you know, cameron is innocent? this isn't corruption. he's been cleared. well, i beg to differ with the treasury committee. why would the treasury commit to do this? well, a because it has a set of georgie, frankly to out parliament. all parliamentarians know that there is nothing they can do to challenge the government with an atc for georgie. however, elected by a minority of people in the new pay, we must always remember that the consequence of having a 1st class,

the post electro system, which is to be unfit for purpose. we give a government like this one, a massive majority which left to exonerate itself to blame for what it's done and exonerate. previous 5 minutes. this the blame for what they've done applies the official whitewash to the action, which actually is basically representing a minority of people that can make a minority. but as you know, poll show bars, johnson more popular than ever. and that's after we heard that the sleep watch dog is going to have one of his old bullington friends on the bullying. didn't club famous for? well, the allegations are, they used to burn 50 pound notes in front of the homeless people. what was your reaction to that, sir? as to graham chair of the committee, savage and public life as his pathetic and inappropriate is, i mean, what else can i say specific? an inappropriate would, would appointing a chump a person who has less be honest,

being a member of an organization which clearly works on the basis of the bias within society. the billing thing club was set up to celebrate the privilege, and frankly, the abuse that privilege provide to deliver. now it's a parent being appointed to look at sleep in society. i do not think that is a clear and objective appointment that in how she lives. i would think was fair and appropriate, so i will use those measure. it was if i can to describe this appointment, but it is clearly not appropriate. and this is the whole thing that was said within the capture of the processes of government by ok. a party, if you still the most popular in the u. k, which does not reflect the majority interest. now my suggestion is that we can see also significant change and its popularity constructed in the u. k is never going to probably enjoy support of less than 30 percent of the electorate. that just

seems to be it's hollow core support and i would never give it to majority and column. and once we see the current kind of a crisis develop and you've got to read the sensible epidemiologist, so an existence in the u. k. the people on independence age for example, look at that forecast and caveat full call. so i'm used to looking for costs and statistical data, and i know that full cost is not a certainty, but look at all the range forecast. and what we're seeing is that we're going to be hundreds of thousands of people getting it every day. we get significant rise in hospitalization, we all go to see a lot of people die over the course of the rest of this year. it almost certainly within weeks we hope to see the country back in lot that and again because that is the only way we will. okay. well i mean, you know, you're not epidemiologist but apparently that's good for the economy. how do you? well, my point is that once all those things, once these reverses happen, once johnson is found out from them most cool, absolute promise you may be, it's over locked down. it's finished. we've got freedom. i think we're going to see

a significant change this popular actually, every government comes to the point where it's loc chrome. okay, all right, well we'll see because some people are going to say that actually stano who hasn't really opposed this government to time and time again. that's the opposition for international views and actually between storm and johnson, they might have a majority even on 1st plus the post. what might i mean? but let's come to selma then. i mean, i'm pretty cold stolen. i didn't see why i shouldn't be like many. i really would like to know what the lead to the opposition is doing because he doesn't appear to be opposing the government is affected by the shirt. and he might like to read the job title. it is lead of the opposition, which requires the actually stand up in the numbers. johnson likes to claim that that's unpacked, realty, to oppose the government. but actually when this government is clearly failing, stop should be offering. it'll tell that it's offering alternatives to go to this court issue a candid offering and all times division of the society that we want in the u. k. one way or decent public services where that company funded,

where kind of asian is fair. and when, for example, at this very moment, this discussion on social care, how to fund care for the elderly in the u. k. and the proposal that we're hearing from the government is that this may well be an extra tax on those who are chorused in the economy. and those who are youngest in fighting at this government. so often those tensions between the have the elderly and large, as i have said that you can call me and i have not the young and in fighting picture between the rich and the pool. we should at this very moment be actually imposing taxes on wealth in the u. k. obviously, i mean, i'm sure those in the lead to watching this will say jeremy corbin did off of that and it was rejected at the ballot box. but that's go to our international view as i just say to lack of, there was an election. the international view is especially the rich ones watching . why do you think britain is one of the greatest tax havens in the world? now that's something to be proud of. surely, i've written 2 books on tax havens and i've also this opinion that britain is now

one of the biggest tax savings in the world. and i will give you the explanation in a few numbers. there are 4700000 companies in the u. k. we can't explain why a population of size need so many companies. the tax authorities only off the tax returns from too many of those companies and half of the rest say, we are not trading. please do not trouble us by asking for a tax return. and then the u. k. we say, yeah, that's right. we won't ask you for information of the ones that do submit the information. a significant number say they have no profits and the number of investigations is tiny. so if you want to set up a company somewhere, which is not going to make displeasure, come to the u. k. pay 15 pounds for your company. signed no physical documents to do so, provide no proof of identity, which you would have to do so in any of the recognized fact patients in the well form your company trade for a while and then get rid of it. and literally the company's house in the u. k. will get rid of your company on payment of 10 pounds of declaration that is never traded,

whether that is true or not. so this is the place which provides the greatest opportunity for tax cheats in the world. now, we should be deeply ashamed of that and apparently will not. i don't understand why we want to undermine our own economy by providing the opportunity to tax cheats to thrive within it, to provide the people of many other countries to what the chief taxes in their own country is the opportunity to do that. but frankly, it is easy to for the company, it is easy to t t taxes. in fact, your goal using a you can tell me now that a company in jersey, the man came in british regina is almost whatever you like tonight. ok, this isn't an advert. for instance, for the rich i was just thinking about. but i mean could even co it vaccine companies were doing there apparently is going to switzerland in delaware. we were presenting it as a britain as a new delaware. but install this joe biden,

after all his going for this global corporate tax rate. sure, you are celebrating that agenda yellen announcing the global minimum corporation tax. or will it just encourage companies to go to countries that don't have it? i do celebrate this deal is the perfect not is it better than anything i could imagine 7 months ago when you might remember, we had a president trump in the white house. this was going to be impossible at that time . now we're talking about the possibility of actually having a us lead but international coalition of a $130.00 nation states, agreeing to set up a minimum global tax record 15 percent now. barrel cap. yes. caveat thought the applies to some very large companies. it is going to by large pay the additional taxes to countries like the usa and the u. k. and not to develop countries of the world that may well need that money more than you can. the usa do right now take

the time when they are under stress as well, and measures in this be able to tackle the tech companies look to be pretty how hot it is better than no deal in terms of moral leadership biking is providing some here. so i've got to congratulate him on that. i've got to say that this is a step in the right direction, that are big flaws. one of the very big flaws in this is that it is dependent upon the quality of the accounting information provided by these companies. and i am a professional child. so the counts and some of the various roles i play and i am well aware of the game that my profession plays and the unity is that they take to manipulate numbers to suit their purposes, shall i, would you like that this could be a game that she's now going to be played that companies will be restating and reorienting the way which they provide. they try their accounts to try to avoid the tax bills that they should be owing. i'm watered about life. there is still

campaigning to do. the door is not closed. on this deal as yet, so that could be reform. i'm certainly gotta be putting quite a lot of effort in seeing whether we can improve it between now and october when the opportunity closes reservation. thank you. that's it for one of your favorite episode of the season will be back on september the 8th for a brand new season. still uncovering the stories buried by the so called mainstream media until then, keep in touch with us for social media and let us know who you'd like to see on the next season of going undergrad. ah ah

ah, the close ticking for evacuations from kabul is the taliban blogs or the deadline extension and puts the brakes on citizens playing abroad. covenant we have for the mayor of kabul about the situation in the capital. at the moment. the departure of many people from up under sun. this has created some sort of idea among the rest of the population. this is very good opportunity for some people that they would like to take this opportunity and go elsewhere. a spark, patrick says i'm all may be fair of fortune slipping away us weapons contracts has called for continuation of the mission and i've got to stop it as american mainstream media. maybe it's gotten there could be a conflict of interest going on as to why.