ah, who dares thing we dare to ask me. ah, well america is crazy frat party in afghanistan is over to 20 years, leaving behind quite a man. the who's dom action or senior, what's going underground,

the team and i are away at the moment, but we'll be back for a new series on september the 8th until then we'll be playing some of your favorite episodes of this season coming up in the show is israeli software, bugging your phone, the editor in chief of wiki leaks, which 1st exposed spyware on android and apple phones tells us what we should do. what it means for journalism and updates us on the usa is collapsing espionage case against julian assad. retained here in london. and did you make money? other coven, we investigate how leads have made billions from the global corona virus pandemic. alyssa, more coming up in today's going underground. but 1st, this week, so the mainstream media so called collectively wring their hands about private surveillance companies of revelations about the alleged widespread reach of the so called pegasus spyware, developed by israeli surveillance firm in its own group. the delayed reaction from the media could arguably be linked to the demon zation of where helix found a julian assange, according to the u. n. a still being tortured in h. m. p. bell marsh in london. but is this the latest example of what we're helix

exposing were private surveillance for a decade. joining me now from reykjavik in iceland is where helix editor in chief christian robinson. christian, thanks so much for coming on. i'll get to whether i should throw my phone away in a 2nd and to your jail. the co founder julian assigned you in a moment, but what do you make of all these journalists suddenly talking about and so group, when, when you, when you were doing this, i don't know a decade ago, was it? yeah, i mean we did to point out the seriousness of this to 10 years old will tell you, but i mean, i'm not going to say, i'm important story and now i mean they do have evidence of wrongdoing. however, i mean, for those who have been following the industry for years and years and know that actually on december 1st, 2011, we can publish internal documents exposing the incredible

scope for these privatized spike companies and the servers they were offering to this particular gm's and targeting act and his political opponents and general. so at that time, actually if you go to the website website, we can do sort or you can reflect on what must be described. there was exactly the same things that we have come to the surface and get all the attention in 2011. when the julian assault was, was launching this publication, another press conference at city university in that story got very little fraction that trivia. and i was very surprised at the time because it was such a strong revelation. strong story, but it has taken 10 years now to maybe reach to pollution. maybe people are now ready to upset the fact that these us by tools that can be carrying one. but

it does not come as a surprise to to us. we can do that. christian, i better just ask you, what should we do, you presume? here and a person of interest to a certain governments. i know there's a case in spain about the surveillance by ca, linked companies of jeffrey robinson, q c. talking to julian sons, you have a phone. how frightened you? i mean edward snowden, who will you wicked things help to get to safety? and moscow said, take him cut out when you tell what when you want total privacy. i mean is that what we're supposed to do? you have to always expect that your, your phone has been meddled and i have been, it's very difficult to detect. think than coordinate people and it's not that easy to see. actually years ago, 11 expert in the field told me, well, i mean,

the only symbol that you can sort of read into your phone has been tampered with is the fact that the battery will die and go down very quick. that means that somebody is basically using a remote to your, your, your, your, on your device. so, spying to when i was doing regular reporting, member hearing about how the drug dealers where operating with old mobile phones when they were meeting. because they were afraid of being under surveillance by police, they will put their phones into the freezer that had the discussion. so you should simply always assume that this is basically taking away your privacy and security. nobody is secure in today's world. we just live in that environment. now, anisette group has given us

a statement. they've been talking about this and they say, and it's a group, is a life on a life saving mission. and the company will faithfully execute this mission. undeterred, despite any and all continued attempts to discredited on false grounds, that's what the israeli company is saying. they used to break a p t. affiliate sex and drug trafficking rings. nothing to do with attacking new york times journalists and journalists from you know, reuters in the economist live, say to mission them, whose lives others in the painters abusing these technology to go out for their political opponents. so do not live in some distance activities. we have no prob, i mean, roof about this and, and i should also say pension funds apparently here in britain invest in n s. so, so does that mean in capitalist countries where investing,

i mean we're paying our taxes will have you see that go into the military industrial complex, and also private pension funds are investing in its own group. i mean, we are paying for our own and we are just giving that must understand that it's only one company of many. i mean, 10 years ago we pointed out this was a multi 1000000000 dollar industry. we were calling out the pointing out the fact that this had to be regulated just the weapons at the speed of it. nobody listened at that time. so it is unregulated and can easily be weaponized or we are calling these companies, let's call it pull. what it really is. i mean, these are intelligence services and you know, and tend to say that we should call them non state hostile intelligence services. and the hostility is against the individuals against privacy and against the fund amendments of our democracy, democratic society. yeah, i mean,

they say they vet their clients a love, but there's another way of approaching this story. the 50000 phone numbers which and so says is the equivalent of opening the white pages and choosing these numbers randomly. it is that a lot of these media groups, they've been accused of being involved in the government, lies that get nato nations into wars wiki leaks. not appealing for the very information that may have been the may when the got through. and so pegasus spyware, so that we can find out the links between the journalist and so go mainstream media and the military industrial complex, the persuade, their populations into wars that kill wound or displaced tens of millions of people . i'm not going to encourage buying on journalists and all. i think it's disgusting practice, but it has been going on for quite a long time. you put your delta, the beginning lawyers, in spite are gone by

a private contractor. so could security company out of spain in the country, an embassy when julian massage was there. but on top of that, when there was a lot of journalists that came to visit julia, we have several journals with spider by this company. and including because they had to leave their phones with his company for certainly they were used as infiltrated malware and information was expected from him that case because he's in spain. obviously we don't guards fighting on during this either. but you know that the u. k. god, you and your old media partner doesn't appear to be giving much prominence to a key witness in the trial here in london. one of the key witnesses for the united states government admitting he was lying about all his allegations. why do you think the guardian is not interested in that report, or any of the publications that are listed in this beggars a spyware report?

i haven't seen reuters news flash that the most famous journalist in the world. the key witness against him has admitted his line. well, it has little traction so far. i know that, you know, some of the major mainstream needed families are working on stories based on just from the, the, the inverse of generalization progress story. so let's get a little bit of time. it's a complicated story, but i mean, the essence of it we can get time. can we? because there's a heat wave here in london. i don't know what the temperatures are in bell marsh. i don't know what the covert situation is in bell much the united nation special or apple juris repeatedly, been on this program and the british start is being involved in torture. there is no time is if you're right, it must be free to media that it is, it is up so that he is sitting in the prison after that he had a victory in court and generally for it,

it's just absolutely absurd that he would be sent back to the prison was creating the condition which was underlying the decision by the judge to actually been my explanation. and talking about procedure, i mean, i'm trying to the point of them and where on earth somebody sit in a jail for 6 months. plus a wiley high court is coming to the decision whether to allow an appeal or not 6 months and a half a year. that's. that's absurd. and so schumann writes violation that we would be condemning and any other country. a new revelation of blowing such a hole in the narrative by the american indian type. it's cited in the, on numerous occasions in the judge rates are ruling on january 4th, which means basically let the united states government was misleading or u. k. court. that's very syringe. ok, well the news here in britain is north's,

about that, in fact, the world global mainstream news had time to talk about jeff bezos going to space. that's a much more important story than the daughter of famous publisher in the world. maybe amazon quick to shut down a w s. their web services system for an s. so the israeli pegasus system, after having to see the national, started talking about all this spyware. great success, no problem. i know that we have leaks of often talked about amazon's close links to the intelligence services. i mean, that's so that's so that should not be the end of it. i mean, there must be an outcry in the, in the public. and as we've said for 10 years, and i was doing the trans pointed out 10 years ago, i mean, the nice it needs to be a regulation of industry. ok, i'm sure amazon, it's just an online bookshelf. obviously, i just, finally, i mean, you know, time and time again, those defending wiki leaks have talked about the us constitution about norms,

international norms. the secretary pretty battelle year who she was just grace previously, actually for di to israel. she has got a consultation baby here, the home office on the official secrets act that some say make, makes leaks criminal. i mean we helix is always said, look, we're doing what journalists are supposed to do, you know, watergate kind of things. what do you make of the possibility that governments may say, i know there's a simple way to avoid the kind of legal problems that they're having to try and imprison, assigns for 175 years, make the kind of thing, the wiki leeks do illegal, per se, april, all right, well let me that is exactly what the is the essence of the incitement against julian basically criminalizing journalists. and what's your interest in other people in britain is back during the tradition hearing,

we saw an attempt to read the fine or, or defined the official secrets act in the same manner. so as to just look, sample is being sucked because it has to be a jewel criminality. it has before you died, somebody, what is a lead? indictment has to be a crime in the u. k. so basically what, what the, what was merging out of the tradition bruises was read definition of the journalist alignment. and basically it's yes for publishing and classified information coming from a li is a crime. so that's cream, the legend journalism. by remote there's a and the question, robertson, thank you. and as i said, as a group has said in a statement to us that there is no link between the 50000 numbers do and as

a group of pegasus and their technology was not associated in any way with the murder. would you mark shoji and that full statement can be found online or below this video? if you're watching on youtube after the break, forget the cayman islands or panama co founder, the tax justice network tells us why the u. k. in the u. s. top. the leaderboard for the best off shore attack savings in the world. all this and coming up in part 2 of going on the ground. the what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy foundation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic development. only personally, i'm going to i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very political time. time to sit down and talk

with still large enough to satisfy the ambitions of jeff bezos. you know, it's got its tentacles in so many aspects of the economy. there's nothing that amazon isn't trying to get into to step by step. the amazon empire has extended its group on the world that was by conduct the inquiry. so i conducted the amazon looks like monopoly trays like a monopoly makes money like monopoly behaves like monopoly. amazon essentially controlled the market play. it's not really a market, it's a private arena where a single company controls the distribution of daily products and the infrastructure of our economy is reduce the workload according to amazon. ah, welcome back. while increasing numbers have been finding it difficult to feed themselves in the u. k. a. u. s. during the global karone of ours pandemic, some of the, in raking in the cache is here in britain. 130000 have been killed by cove. it. how

so joining me now from cambridge here is the co founder of the tax justice network and tax research u. k. director, professor richard murphy. thanks so much richard for coming on. so we know that there was a scandal over the weekend about prime minister barak johnson exempting himself from isolation. we've got the health secretary, obviously with co wade and we got a lot of stuff at the moment about the former prime minister david cameron's lobbying allegations. how corrupt has the johnson governments response to corona virus been in your estimation until this government came along? i had never dad call a u. k. gotten corrupt. i was busy and that was a pretty i'm well, i think today because it was got to be pretty risky with regard to the locals. frankly, i don't think anyone has any concern about coding this government crop now because the evidence is over whelming, this government is pursuing its business in a fashion that is corrupted, favoring its own ministers. on some occasions with contracts, mat hancock got

a contract from his own department from which he benefited something which by any reasonable definition of corruption might be involved in anti corruption campaign. in some way, for 2 decades, anyone would say is unacceptable. we say for the ministers lobby in ways apparently would be unacceptable. in many countries, we see borrows, johnson, frankly distorting the truth telling lies slowly without apparently any concern and knowing that he'll be found out how you appear to be indifferent to the consequences. so this is a government that is, in my opinion, absolutely rotten to the call that have absolutely no shred of credibility and which is bluntly pursuing policies now, which shows that it is completely indifferent to the well being of the people or the u. k. they are playing games with people in this country, putting their lines of risk, putting the lives of young people in particular risk that my children,

my late teens and 20 children at risk because they're not fully vaccinated because it wants to do something which is often the reckless in terms of the kind of policy i, i find it hard to contain my anger with regard to this government because i think a reasonable person should be angry with this government was, you know, bars trans denies, not only the dominic cummings of advisors, allegations disgraced former health secretary, mat hancock, after allegations about his mistress and lobbying denies all wrong doing as does the former prime minister on the former prime minister. we've got to, we went to the treasury committee saying he did absolutely nothing wrong sending messages to ministers after leaving the house of parliament, it seems on behalf of greenfield capital, which made loans of 350000000 to liberty steel which employs $3000.00 workers. i mean, why would the treasury committee itself say, you know, cameron is innocent? is a, this isn't corruption, he's been cleared. well,

i bank with the treasury committee. why was the treasury commit to do this? well, a has a set the majority, frankly to our parliament. all parliamentarians know that there is nothing they can do to challenge the government with the atc for georgie. however, elected by a minority of people in the new pay, we must always remember that this is the consequence of having a 1st call, the post electro system, which is to be unfit for purpose. we give a government like this one, a massive majority, which led to exonerate itself to blame for what it's done and exonerate. previous 5 minutes this the blame for what they done. i flies the official whitewash to the action, but which action is basically representing a minority of people in minority. but as you know, paul show bar johnson will populate than ever. and that's after we heard that the sleep watch dog is going to have one of his old bullying didn't friends on the

building, didn't club famous for? well, the allegations are, they used to burn 50 pound notes in front of the homeless people. what was your reaction to that, sir? as to graham chair of the committee, savage and public life is pathetic and inappropriate. it is. i mean, what else can i say specific, an inappropriate? what are, what are pointing a chump? a person who has less be honest, being a member of an organization which clearly works on the basis of the bias within society. the bullying thing club was set up to celebrate the privilege, and frankly, the abuse that privilege provide to deliver. now it's apparent being appointed to look at sleep in society, and i do not think that is a clear and objective appointment that in how she lives would think was fair and appropriate. so i will use those measure. it was if i can, to describe this appointment, but it is clearly not appropriate. and this is the whole thing that we're saying within the capture of the processes of government by okay, a party,

if you still the most popular in the u. k, which does not reflect the majority interest. now my suggestion is that we're going to see significant change in popularity. concert tonight in the u. k is never going to probably enjoy support of less than 30 percent of the electorate. that just seems to be it's hard core support and i would never get to majority and comment. once we see the current kind of a crisis develop and you've got to read the sensible epidemiologist. so an existence in the u. k. the people on independence age, for example, look at their forecasts and caveat oh for call. so i'm used to looking for costs and statistical data. and i know that a full cost is not a certainty, but look at all the range forecasts. and what we're seeing is that we're going to be hundreds of thousands of people getting it every day. we get significant rise in hospitalization. we all go to see a lot of people die over the course of the rest of this year. almost certainly

within weeks we are going to see the country back in lot that and again because that is the only way we will. okay, well i mean you're not epidemiologist, but apparently that's good for the economy. but my point is that once all those things, once these reverses happen, once johnson is found out from them most cool, absolute promise, he made it over, looked down. it's finished, we've got freedom. i think we're going to see a significant change this popular actually, every government comes to the point where it's loc chrome. okay, all right, well we'll see because some people are going to say that actually stano who hasn't really opposed this government to time and time again that the opposition for international views and actually between storm and john. so they might have a majority even on 1st plus the post. what might i mean? but let's come to selma then. i mean, i'm pretty cool. it's donna, i don't see why i shouldn't be like many. i really would like to know what the lead to the opposition is doing because he doesn't appear to be opposing the government to the fact. it will be sure that he might like to read the job title. it is lead

of the opposition, which require to be actually stand up. and now for us, johnson likes to claim that that's unpacked, realty, to oppose the government. but actually, when this government is clearly failing, thomas should be offering a tentative offering. alternatives to go to this court issue a candidate offering and all times division of the society that we want in the u. k . one way or decent public services where the coffee from the warehouse ation is fair. and when, for example, at this very moment, there's discussion on social care, how to fund care for the elderly in the u. k. and the proposal that we're hearing from the government is that this may well be an extra tax on those who are chorused in the economy. and those who are youngest, in fighting at this government so often does pensions between the have, the elderly and large, as i have said, that you can call me. and i have not the young and in fighting creature between the rich and the pool. we should at this very moment be actually imposing taxes on wealth in the u. k. obviously, i mean, i'm sure those in the lead to watching this will say jeremy corbin did off of that

and it was rejected at the ballot box. but that's go to our international view, as i just said to lack of, there was an election. the international view is especially the rich ones watching . why do you think britain is one of the greatest tax havens in the world? now that's something to be proud of. surely, i've written 2 books on tax havens and i've also this opinion that britain is now one of the biggest tax savings in the world. and i will give you the explanation in a few numbers. there are 4700000000 companies in the u. k. we can't explain why a population size need so many companies the tax so far. if he's only off the tax returns from too many of those companies and half of the the rest say we are not trading, please do not trouble us by asking for a tax return. and then the u. k. we say, yeah, that's all right. we won't ask you for information of the ones that do submitted termination, a significant number say they have no profits and the number of investigations is tiny. so if you want to set up a company somewhere,

which is not going to make displeasure, come to the u. k. pay 15 pounds for your company. signed no physical documents to do so, provide no proof of identity, which you would have to do. so in any the recognized fact based in the well form your company trade for a while and then get rid of it. and literally the company's house in the u. k. will get rid of your company or payment of 10 pounds and a declaration that is never traded, whether that is true or not. so this is the place which provides the greatest opportunity for tax cheats in the well. now we should be clear saying that that the power will not, i don't understand why we want to undermine our own economy by providing the opportunity to tax cheats to thrive within it. to provide the people of many other countries. you want the chief taxes in their own country is the opportunity to do that. but frankly, it is easier for the company. it is easy to t t taxes if that's your goal using a u. k. healthy. now that a company, a jersey,

the ottoman came in british regina is almost whatever you like tonight. ok, this isn't an advert for infants for the rich. i was just think about. but i mean, could even co, it vaccine companies were doing their apparently is going to switzerland in delaware. we were presenting it as a britain as a new delaware, but install this joe biden, after all his going for this global corporate tax rate. sure, you are celebrating that agenda yellen announcing the global minimum corporation tax, or will it just encourage companies to go to countries that don't have it? i do celebrate this deal. is it perfect? no. it better than anything i could have imagined 7 months ago when you might remember, we had a president trumped in the white house. this was going to be impossible at that time. now we're talking about the possibility of actually having a us lead. but international coalition of a $130.00 nation states agreeing to set up

a minimum global tax rate that 15 percent now. barrel cap. yes. caveat thought the applies to some very large companies. it is going to by large pay the additional taxes to countries like the usa and the u. k. and not to the developed countries of the world that may well need that money more than you can. the usa do right now take the time when they are under stress as well, and measures in this be able to tackle the tech companies look to be pretty how hot it is better than no deal in terms of moral leadership biking is providing some here. so i've got to congratulate him on that. i've got to say that this is a step in the right direction, that are big flaws. one of the very big drawers in this is that it is dependent upon the quality of the accounting information provided by these companies. and i am a professional child accountant amongst the various roles i play and i am well aware

of the games that my profession plays and the open unity that they take to manipulate numbers to suit their purposes, shall i, would you like that? and this could be a game that she's now going to be played, that companies will be restating and reorienting, which they provide to their accounts to try to avoid the tax bills that they should be. i'm worried about that there is still campaigning to do. the door is not closed on this deal as yet. so that could be reform. i'm certainly going to be putting quite a lot of african seeing whether we can improve it between now and october, when the opportunity closes reservation. i do. that's it for one of your favorite episodes of the season will be back on september the 8th for a brand new season. still uncovering the stories buried by the so called mainstream media until then, keep in touch with us for social media and let us know who you'd like to see on the next season of going undergrad. ah

no financial survival guide. daisy, let's learn about be allowed. let's say i'm a joy and your grief. i'm grief on face of the site. walk 3 prod. thank you for helping me the joy that fell out that way. the desperation in couple of naughty crew experience it 1st time the chaos in the afghan castle, 10 days off the taliban to see more russia evacuation 500 people from afghanistan, including its own services and other others from former soviet countries. among the g and ukrainian and to show of patriotism or fortune slipping away.