i guess under really been a mess. that's not the marcus i'm making. the really obvious question. lot of people watching will be asking is, why was this such a hurried withdraw? why was it done in a more measured? why wasn't it done in a way that would have preserved safety and make sure that people could be evacuated in a secure manner? why was this all done in such a hurried? no, no one's offering up the answer. i don't know. i mean, only those who decided marcus, i was not them something i want to be glad about that. and i think what nobody was wanting to know how they were going on because i was not in the room, so ideally, gone fine. i will tell you there was a structural problem from day one. there was a, there was an effort to impose in military solution on a political problem. and that was never going to come to boss. so even if there were 5 more years, i don't think there wouldn't be any change in the, in the final outcome. we have seen how things could go out. the army didn't fight.

the other one didn't stand up, honey, lead the country. why? because they were living in a bubble and there was somebody lying the western deck sparrows on what they do on the ground was and there was only one country that kept speaking the truth for 20 years. and we were shunned for that. my many, what was, what was our point political federal monday, the only way forward what you are putting on the ground is not sustainable. take a look at the problem. why wasn't it recognized? because there was a this information dumping? i'm sorry to say that the last one spend more time living budget on the big thing, its own governance problems and putting its own house in order. i must also tell you there was a very negative, those laid by the principles for the india who invested in atlanta mall to be stabilized buckets on then for the benefit of the upland before all of these entities. and for this created another did reach or the one all focused on is the

problem. where do we end up? the problem was in done and it was embarrassing. and what back is i would thing and we wouldn't get it once again, we are saying, speaking the truth, you made major mistakes in the ninety's. don't repeat them because that will lead just as bad for the one. there will be dead. ism dicking roots, a knuckle traffic in russia has been evicted by that. why do we want instability? why do we keep talking about the inevitable? it is everybody's responsibility. especially those. what are the never going to ensure that i don't want off on that. these are human beings focused on a buckets on either human beings. we've lost it all, isn't $100.00. is that any other country you will lose it? the columns and for the wall next door that we had nothing to do with and we're still offering partnership? let me also remind you, we are as we speak evacuating international eligible,

$7000.00 plus, people have been evacuated to focused on using our own airlines. we are open and open up online borders. no other country has come close to this. this is honest bunch ability as a player in the international community, but we also expect others to play there. but as a short, rather than just in doing it blaming and don't to, we've talked about the, the need to try and re stablish some kind of stability, which is going to be extremely difficult in the circumstances that we're seeing at the moment. and maybe the taliban may seem to, to some of the lesser of the evils that are on offer at the moment in terms of trying to re establish some kind of order in the chaos. but there are still many concerns about taliban rein. in particular, the application of syria law in particular, the way that women will be treated and just how much they will have in terms,

right. you're not concerned about how females will be treated under a taliban government. you are saying that the world is concerned about what is the solution to this? if you are concerned about somebody else's baby and what do you do? you sit down and don't and you're trying to convince you. and then after one pick and when to my action, if you go to somebody and say, we know you're not going to do this, we are not interested in you whether you've just lost on leverage. that is leverage . it's the only 11 legitimacy and assistance that is leverage know, use extensively to make sure that the average upfront benefits evacuation is critical. not only that, but there is another that is going on that the only ones who would make it about one to what associated with the international rhythm for 20 years. is that how we want to present it? what about the rest of the $30.00 to $35000000.00? so whatever, going to sit down and don't, but not engaging. at this point,

i think will not be that i think everybody needs to come together. that needs to be a need to see where we're going to go with this, but abandon month is the easiest and worst option where again, a decades from now we'll be sitting and saying we made a big mistake west and leaders on record saying we will never go that again. let's do you see the taliban is an entity that you can negotiate with that you can discuss these masters that you said they portrayed themselves as, as being a new organization that is willing to sit down and discuss. they did it with us. officials, do you see them as, as a completely new proposition from the, from the taliban, of maybe 20 years ago. the medical reality and they are in control of their country . i mean, that is what it is. that's how it's transpired. we have been think, well that they should be a political settlement between one and the other one so that we could move on. that was over the more money. let me flip the country so reality and that is what to do

the game into the country and there was no to distance. essentially, that means they are the political entity. they have been negotiating. as you said in the, for years the us been sitting with them, you've been getting them all with your going to them. interesting with them. us better them as just said last week that they are in touch with the directly general god of the you said it was me was shooting with them forever. so, you know, just because we don't want to 40, don't, there's not mean that's not the reality. i'm not here to say that would be, this is up to them. this is up to the other to engage with them. i'm, nobody just say good or bad. all i'm saying is by gets done is not ready to bear the brunt of more. if you do more and more humanitarian prices related issues, just because the world is not willing to do right by not we will what was we will do more brothers and sisters. the one has to be the responsibility for what has

happened and to fix it by greater political and economic engagement. who is going to pay money, put up money done, waited even on the plan. only that each company was going to come together and decide what they must abandon month. i tell you, history will never forgive those countries or do it again. planning on and focus on was suffered. the most is use of good to talk to really appreciate your time, i guess dr. noted use of national security adviser to the prime minister of pakistan. ok, let's get on the ground in the afghan capital. now we'll go live to cobble correspondent. broad gas div is gathering information on those 2 explosions. the other code, what's the latest information we're on? well, the apps confirm that a number of american citizens and residents as they put it,

have been injured and killed in the fact he, we have heard about 4 american soldiers who had been injured and reports the firm, at least some of them. several of them had been killed. the united the united states also confirm that there were 2 exclusions, as we had reported previously, one at the northern checkpoint, northern gate to the airport of capital, another between the hotel, the baron hotel, and the chit put leading to the, to the airport itself. also, the taliban has confirmed that several of their fighters had been injured. we also had from a source previously there that people had spotted a suicide bomber making his way towards one of those checks that are being spotted . he hurriedly, he began running towards the check board so difficult to imagine anyone running in the, in the crowd in the press that we saw at the airport. do you constant crush?

there are 1000. and one of the airport is every foot hundreds and hundreds, cumulative thousands of people packed together, begging, crying, sometimes trying to force their way at the airport again to remind us the exterior at the airport is controlled by the tap, the bad within the airport, off multiple checkpoints and took security rings. man by nato, and predominantly american american troops. we drove through them yesterday. we still was all happening. the shooting there is ceaseless taliban barracks. troops firing in the, in the air, trying to keep people out of the airport. people desperate to get back to you. now imagine in those circumstances, a suicide bomber making his way into this, into this mob. and to this cry, people. and that's amazing. their device,

which is why, which is why i said earlier on when the casualty counts were much lower than they were bound to. there is no way they could have been that lu if indeed 2 suicide bombers, all of some other sources report one suicide bomber. and one car bomb, this is dated in that price of people just too much. exposure, apparently at the northern checkpoints, man by americans leading into the airport and enough explosion between the barren hotel which until very recently had been british and american diplomat workers and military. where they betted aloud into the air that happened between the barren hotel and the checkpoint. we also have heard that the battle to the taliban at that check would have to check with me about the battle in the east and 2nd of the airport,

which would explain my american allegedly well to among those injured and perhaps killed. because when we drove out of the southern the mic, the taliban, and obviously the other just put those did the distance is what much less of which again explain those injuries. we have all to how to get from sources here. the airport, the, the americans open thought perhaps at the suicide bomber. but they opened in with the words that we had heard that we had heard the taliban. we spoke to the taliban minister in summation. his 1st interview was given to us, a group of journalists. he said that they had borne nato, that there was a threat, a security threat at the airport. he described to us as low but persistent and that anything could happen, it could be a bomb. it could be somebody shooting up the crowd causing a i think that would have killed many more during the resulting stampede. they had

given that information to native to other countries as well, which is why we had many others, many of the great britain, european states, the united states urgent people to be very careful to stay away from the airport. obviously people aren't heating those warnings that there's a time limit. many countries have said that, that wrapping up their evacuation, people are desperate, absolutely desperate to get it. and that the taliban says is the root of the problem that they promised them that they would evacuate them. people believe them, there's a crush and endless crush that has lasted for days at the airport, which would have, could have been avoided. they had gotten people to gather at the airport to try to make their way that the security threat, the terror threat, by the way it persisted. it is ongoing, which is why countries analogy their citizens to stay away from the airport to make sure that they don't end up in the crowd in the press. web. more attacks are not

only likely, but, you know, they have been intelligence has said that they could likely happen because i says, which has been blamed for these attacks. we have heard that we haven't confirmed that they have claimed in direct responsibility for this. they may well try to state more attacks. this is isis an offshoot devices here, and i've gotten on many thanks live we pulled the from our correspond mariah gas they have on the ground that in cobble the african capital. let's get some analysis now from ottawa. com, please the directory. no, since a british thing. tongue that focuses on crises in the middle east. and that is exactly what we're talking about here. this is a crisis of epic proportions. it seems i'mma, the situation seems almost ridiculous. you've got the afghan taliban, who widely regarded by most governments in the world to be a terrorist. my zation afghan taliban have carried out terrorist attacks upon

members of n. jos upon foreign employees. busy they've targeted places with terrorist attacks just because foreigners requested them. you have telephone members screening people approaching cobble airport, trying to find isis terrorist. so potential terrorists screening of the potential terrorist isn't this lucas situation without ludicrous you would. you would think are you on one could imagine that they would be various groups operating on the ground, the i s on the i s k that is said to be responsible we, it obviously to have a responsibility claim they could be people coming back from the middle east, or at least part of whom would be coming back from the middle east after and you know, participating in the met him over there and iraq and siri and so on. and they would

be claiming legitimacy. and for them, this is an opportunity. and the rationale would be those people who are gathered even civilians who are gathered in front of the airport gates are nothing but collaborators and look at the taliban. they are allowing them to go. so they shouldn't be allowing them to go. and basically they, this whole operation would be about telling right wing what streaming the elements in the entire grandstand of the taliban are not the people who are supposed to protect us to protect the religion. and we are. so it's basically a recruitment exercise there. stealing some of the legitimacy from the town. and if they could kill or injure some of the western soldiers, especially american soldiers, then that would be even better. you know, the more the merrier. there is another element as well, which is a bit more strategic or, and which that this sort of action would put strain on the evacuation

process. it would force more screening. it would put strain on the supply chain of people entering the airport. and so this could force the united states or push it into a position where it might want to extend that 31st of august deadline, which would put strain you know, between the united states and the town about the relation between the united states and the tolliver so basically all of it is about upsetting the apple cart. and if we think of, you know, terrorists or extremist people then pretty much the same. but if we think about tribal affiliations, then people are different. so this is where are they? those, you know, i asked cape, assuming that they are the ones responsible might be coming from you talked about

the, the different tribes. how would you explain the coexistence now, how will they either co exist or will there be a collision of ideologies now, between the taliban and between isis k. i mean that they're all proclaiming the same ideology. if we go back 20 or 30 years ago, when the majority took over of understand they were unified sort of unified front. they were the who speaks with the tajir and they were the, you know, the people from left and right and whatever, tribes and, and then they started fighting with each other. and there is nothing to suggest that this time around. it would be different at that point in 1905 or so. tommy bon was brewed in pakistan and they swept all over. they will better train better equipped, and they were definitely supported. so this went all over and took all over. i've

gone son and they became the dominant and the only force nowadays would they be able to do so? probably not so easy. so what we might see in the future developing is that they would be people saying, oh, i'm not going to swear allegiance to the time, but i have enough support. and they may be seeking some external support from this neighboring country that neighboring country. and so once and if we go back to the entire exercise of the united states, some people may think this is like a defeat of an american project and so on. but actually could easily be calculated move, you know, we have this problem and, and in the words, a former president, donald trump, let others deal with it. and suddenly you have neighboring countries like pakistan, like crusher. and you know, it's allies in central asia, tajikistan to minus time and so on. and iran feeling nervous about any vacuum

happening enough hermiston, and this internal fight that could easily spillover and extend to neighboring countries. so probably this whole instability is by design so that you know others you know, get a taste of what the americans have been, you know, getting in for the past 20 years. you talked about that maybe some entities will see. this is an opportunity that says weakness enough county standards, you know, the taliban still hasn't managed to establish itself and gain control of the whole country. does that suggest everything and listening to say that just to me that we're looking ahead to great periods of greater instability that from the on the face of it, the tiny bon are a sort of a very big force and you know that they're talking about $80000.00 sort of fighters

or whatever, but they are very committed, they're very audiological and they have the support of large segments of the population at least. and if we think tribal, they easily defeated without really having a lot of trouble. a more supposedly formidable army of the, of the afghan government, they just threw their weapons and swept away. i think what could happen more reasonably is that if the others were talking about my food in by cheer and you know this, this new i s k. and others near the border of tajikistan and so on. if they could not agree on a unified front, then the advantage would be to the ton of bonds and all those people and groups could dream off is some benefits in a future government, you know, some representatives whatever,

but it is not out of the question that a, an effort to arm those people just like what happened in the past with a ton of bonds themselves and to arm those people train them and bring some am i've guns who are not happy from neighboring countries back into the country, tried to take the time and then we could well be seeing a return of a civil war or something for the moment it looks like the taliban will be in control providing a piece. they sort of that group they, you could argue as well that the taliban are not the same for 30 years. they were so 30 years ago. probably now they are a bit more mature. they know how to show force at some times and lenient see it other times and a piece others as long as they can give him some carrot shows and carrots sometimes and stick and other time. so no, it seems unlikely that there is going to be

a civil war because of the apparent balance. but you never know. i was just speaking a few minutes ago to an advisor to the prime minister of pakistan and the strong belief that he had was that whatever you think of the taliban, there are political entity. they're in charge of the country. internationally. governments need to sit down and work with them to try and help them develop stability in the country. is that what is needed? whatever you think of the telephone, whether you think the terrorists or not, if you want to help the people of afghanistan, if you want to prevent atrocities, if you want to prevent a humanitarian disaster, government going to have to sit down and try and help the taliban what would be the other option to cut them off and basically make the situation worse? i don't think, i don't think that's a very good situation. i mean, let's look at the neighboring countries. again, pakistan would be worried if hostilities, sorry, then spread in the understand that they could easily sprint into pakistan because

the communities are so into linked and so on. russia, for example, could be worried that it's affiliated friendly states. you know that the central asian state of projects down to start with whom they have good relationships. they might suffer from an islamic extremist influence and eventually get this to you will the stabilize themselves the lice of iran. they also had their own share of african refugees and so on. so at least the neighboring countries will. we could also talk about china because they have a tiny border there with, with sun. but if we talking about the immediate neighboring countries, they all have an interest sort of in stabilizing the situation. and i'm going to start on the other side. if we think about the western governments, the ones that have been there since 2001 in f honest on, i mean,

what would they like to see would, would they like to see the taliban and go a little bit more and towards you know, their way of running the society, or would they want to keep them on their toes or probably beleaguered and so they could get more tough or we can see or hear at the moment. still, we haven't seen a lot, but at least we'll tweak in here is that the taliban are saying, you know, girls can go to schools. is that a genuine taliban initiative? or has it been reached through negotiations, or lengthy conversations with the united states in doha, over the years of hard work and so on. and if, if it, if it is the latter, if it has been reached through negotiations, the taliban could easily revert back to the original position should be, should they be pushed into a corner. but again,

what has happened today is about pushing the toilet bond into a corner with us. i think taliban would want stability in the country. they want their legacy to be that we are the ones who liberated have got to start from the americans, a 20 year old, an occupation, and we going to tell our children how we built of going to stop or rebuild of learn this time on sherry, our laws on a pious sort of basis, and they do not want therefore, or at least they wouldn't want some instability to mar that progress. they want to gain and they want to gain, you know, the price of their struggle, they want to get whatever they have been and promising their followers for the past 20 years. if we listen to their narrative throughout the 20 past the past 20 years

we've, we've, we've listened to some of that. and it always says that the current government at the time, obviously in terrible, doesn't represent the the true guns. and that once the americans leave began to fall out easily, this has definitely materialized this, this sort of, you know, a prophecy has as materialize. and they want to show their supporters, they want to assure their fighters at least, that they are forced for the good. but they are keeping their own faith, they keeping their own culture and so on. do they want to fight with anybody else? i didn't think so. they also, if you think about it, they would want to sit with other countries in order to gain legitimacy at home. so if they go to washington, just like they did in prior to 2001, have a delegation visit washington. so this would help them inside their own country to

tell the guns you know, we're making progress. however, they are not alone in the playing field. and there are all sorts of, again, tribal affiliations, sometimes sectarian. and sometimes it's very hard extremists coming from the, you know, the middle east experience, we need to remember as well. that some point, the arab afghans, as they were called at the time, the ones who were part of the majority became some sort of a burden for the majority. and they were looked at as, as a problem and they will try. they were isolated and we remember that one of the bigger major id names, i'm a charmer, so father of the current med miss owed was assassinated by ben lud in. and this was not about who is more pious or who's more moving. and this was about, you know, anymore city and been loudon and up to why the know there's,

it's been great to get the context for me for the flex along those off. yeah, unfortunate. but i'm sure it will speak again about this is a big issue is going to lead lots of analysis. thanks so much. lots of great context. i'm i work half my direct. thank you. have a think tank british thing tank focusing on the middle east. and i'm going to just wrap it up very quickly just to remind your breaking news story from afghanistan to explosions outside the international airport in cobble at least 13 people reported dead more analysis and a couple of minutes the families that up with the market to get i took market function, you would like to get some idea

definitions to another. do y'all done? got. i've got that limit and i wanted them off. you're gonna be skills that you don't know what's going on. the less about me. well, america is crazy frat party in afghanistan is over 20 years, leaving behind quite a math the

ah, ah, at least 13 people have been killed more than 50 others injured into explosion. downside cobble apples, according to ripples for us. soldiers were among the wind. the taliban earlier said that an attack on cobble as what was possible and might be i ended calming the group's image. the problem is that

a huge number of people have gathered near the airport and there is a threat that the single person.