policy, especially in your region, has never been short on rivalry, intrigues and all sorts of complicated relationships. when you look back at your long career, do you think current diplomat, those who are in service right now, do they have it easier or more difficult? when i think this is, jason has become much more complex than before. in asia, things are become very difficult because all the idle china and the inability of not only the neighboring countries of china, but also europe and the united states to come to terms with it. and we always talk about the 2 cities as ising policy for just re establish video all the reasons for a concert. what is happening is that the united states has now in recent years, under john and even under bite and become very vocal about the central training

and, and designating your slow adversity along with russia. and . ready therefore. busy i think us how this will play out is going to effect agreed the security an issue because there is no there is no security. ready architecture now can care about india threat perception because at the time when i entered my profession, this, the tension in india and pakistan were considered to be the chief rivalry of the continent. but you just mentioned that your disagreements with china and i wonder if they have already starting started to overpaid the, the tensions with packets. and i mean who is india? is she rival or she's concerned at this point of time? is it packaged or is it china already? was it had always been shy except that in yeah, i tried to manage a relationship with china in a different way because there hasn't been

a history or partition on august on trying to. so the world against india, or putting a claim on india with regard to a new capability and thinking that china gave or to the messiah and nuclear capability. and china has, after the occupation of tibet begun for the 1st time in history. the 1st time in history neighbor and we had a $962.00 conflict in which india was to be on the border. and since then into the number of years, india has time to manage the relationship with china. digging into work on the fact that it's a neva, it's a big follow and ominous enmity with it would not be helpful and try and find some

common ground rich. i know i'm due until jaya in recent years started becoming much more aggressive, especially on 2005. we've got to get into things on china. and then we've had recent direct conflict in the east on the dock, which is continuing. and you know, china is a nuclear country focused on the nuclear country board. and you bought nuclear, please claim india and dentistry. they are in league with each other. now you have the stone of august on economic got it off. so we have chasing a very big challenge from china. so we'll go answer your question. china is a major energy. now, in this concerns, we're trying to chime with the united states allies. you know, better than i do that it gave rise to i knew so far informal grouping, the so called quad reach out far as from india in the united states and japan,

australia, and you're writing, you've been pretty straightforward and saying, you know, formal statements assigned a group the quad is intended to counter the growing china's threats. i wonder what our current and possible means of countering we primarily talking about medic signaling some coordination me you know, psychological pressure or do you think may sooner or later come down to some joint kinetic action? no, no, no that i don't think it's likely. and i don't think any in any country wants it, it'll, it'll harm everybody. it is that china is expanding his navy in a totally unprecedented, for the 1st time in history, a country has expanded its navy so rapidly. why is it doing it as clearly said that they want to build a blue water? they want to protect s. s abroad, building porch all over the place,

their maritime food chickens, indian ocean security because of the positioning themselves in baker countries in ocean. now they have these 2 got it all going as important and i'm sure let me make this point which is that they're developing, talk on why from united to me on my to be able to go all the other from sion, janet to back us on into the indian into the a, b and c. and then they have, of course, the initiative it, which will, which is a dominate english. yes. so it will be the 1st time in history that a continental in asia will also see to dominate whether they succeed off of the different better when the little indian ocean. and that's why i think we have to devise some days and means to those that missions and the very end and the place to start coming is the south china sea,

the western pacific. because of the expand and go the indian ocean and create a much larger for the security of india another. now, this jigsaw puzzle won't be complete without rush. and i'm sure you know that the russians are instinctively very mistrustful of any initiatives, especially security initiatives involving the united states for a minute on a recent visit to an interest to the region alluded to, was as asian made. so do you think that's an appropriate comparison and do you think because members would la like to be seen or perceived that we as members of some sort of a military align? well, to begin with this, the chinese will 1st off calling a nation will be back in 2007 when the 1st actual exercise took place. in fact,

also joint so. so it's not as if foreign minister was focused on ation natal number to japan, australia and united states. ready are already allies, so they wanted to have a natal natal holiday dad. but simply because this india is going to have military exercises with the other country doesn't sort of the the for, for into kind of a military allies. number 3, india will never join the military. this is not in our dna. i think it is an exercise to go to a sickness of china that it must garbage is ambitions must play by that must not violate international law must not make sovereignty claims which are not supported by last and explain who, what is it intention in terms of developing such a large navy with so many across got years, they have to order the purpose. it's

a gemini domination. i'm a bit surprised that the foreign minister law probably speaks team the experienced and i might implemented for his diplomatic skills as to why, despite his bladder explanations still expresses some reservations. howard the quad and the indoor. he understands what india's concerns divisions, but i'm sure you also understand what russian concerns and reservations are having search here as an ambassador for russia, china is a natural counter pounds. again, the us to call them just that is for india, the united states is a natural counterbalance again, china and i want to ask you, was there the sort of triangulation that are always inviting in a big guy to manage biological relationship is that is our deafening this region, i mean, is it an average of all that big powers in this part of the world will always have

to call on others to come in and how them manage wanted one another? well, you know, if you look at what is happening on down, india is very, very keen to manage this relationship within the ation context. that is why we still participate despite all our differences with china and russia. and yet we are off the bricks. and of course we are back of a seal, which is a clear signal to do that. despite our problem with china wheatley, it's a lot to leave a forums which was initiated essentially by russia and they are from our bilateral relationship with russia. it is another lateral forum in which we can develop better understanding with russia and descent solutions and have a platform also discussing this issue in china. now, united states is a central issue. i mean, they don't have any football. they are from

a very very i never understood and i want to go to have a gun. it sounded in a shovel. so the only play they're going to be in need is a seas. because you use any navy which can go anywhere in the world and we have common interest with them in order to protect the feelings of communication from chinese and 20 indian the notion best rational for bringing the united states in the met. it had a notion, best of rational for bringing the united states in the maritime demand to be able to counter china, us ambitions, but on land. no, we are not interested in scheming with united states or anybody. yes. now, let me ask you about the humanitarian aspect such relationship because when he found his south face to face with an avalanche of

corbet, 19 china seemed to be far more forthcoming in offering its help and bring assistance to get down the united states. i know that washington has tried to change that and resigned this offer as more empathic. but i wonder if this initial unbounded meant of india by the united states was disheartening and also revealing. i mean, i understand what you're saying that, you know, you treat this military corporation as you want to hear. i mean, you can have a different position on another rounds of corporation, but you know, military aspect is an important one and it's about trust. it's about coming to each other's, help it in the time of raise me then. i wonder if india is expecting was expecting that from the united states because it's ready to cooperate with patches done this year. as the fans is the one when the china and the problem with the

one lighters in the house is not as if we didn't made a gesture. so i suppose for diplomatic reason, china if he's that visual rhetoric brocade that yes, yes. so it's not as if it is one side. secondly, just now, well knows, that the relationship has gone southwards, very steep, the because off their expression in the sun, the dark violet and all our border demons, beginning from 90900 feet. it's a new game that john was playing devil, this kind of manager and gesture is neither here nor there. in terms of the real issues, relationship not just say yes, you're right initially, not on the trunk, but there biden nominate, restrictions is walk the defense act to prevent so off vaccines and

radians to manufacture this vaccines to india. anybody else for that matter? and it was a bit of a problem, but since then they have relaxed, their position. nato assistance has come into not next seems in town, often radians or we are negotiating with them, be in touch with them. i think they will be some good acceleration. the us in this community has come forward in a very big way, and of course, united states are supported south african, the engine proposal in the w deal to spend a tense, temporarily fight over crisis assisting. so let's see how it goes. but i think united states have been selfish to begin by making amends for about we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments state you me

or the families that up with the mark. sounds good. i took mark your function, you go to our definition to me. none they do. john got on the top limit and i wanted them to be like that to do the work for me about the let me let

me do the the me or i welcome back. to all the parts of all ship, all indians, former borton secretary, mr. st. about before they break, we started talking about how with 19 experienced i wonder if this very difficult ordeal is going to have any implications

for yes. one policy and yes. overall assessment of priorities because all of our country spending billions, if not trillions on for defining against one another. while many, many thousands of people are dying from the lack of necessary woodman. do you think the call that 9 in experience that you have had will affect its priorities and it's assessment in any way? well, you know, want to assume that this is going to be a very long, long limited to india, the world. and i always so much independent and so much link to each other, that india i'll be able to control this than i spent as on the other hand. unfortunately, there is a lot of negative propaganda on this against india because it will be in this part of the houses that india has escaped the worst crisis. and the 2nd wave stuck

struck there is a lot of that i think in the rest on media and this and that. but if you look at the hard to guess, hard figures, we are going to see people who look proportionately as either the number of inspections or that gets it is way, way, way smaller than any other any other countries. this fact because india, the, the, the appetite figures are not mentioned at all. even now the 2nd wave has begun to receive at one moment be 400000 infections every day. just come down to about 2 161-227-0000. and the number to odessa is also gone down. so if you look at, look at the thing, only one percent will be in the us population. hadn't been as effective if so it's

not a lot of prices, but because of the recent oxygen shortage is and the obviously the given to that. and those are the how doing scenes only the projected as the major major thing, which in some senses in terms of human life last was the case. but if you look at the overall picture, it is, it is by no means you just add it as being in france or germany or united states or, or italy or any of these countries. now i want to position to base that our bilateral aspect of india is relation you are the best person to talk about that because in addition to serving as a secretary, as ambassador to host of countries including russia, reach, has always private relationship with india. but i have a feeling that this relationship has always been falling short potential. are we destined to be sympathetic to one another,

but sort of descendant too preoccupied by other challenges to give this relationship a fair chance? no, i think we have to accept certain as realities if fortunately or unfortunately we are not contiguous to each other. if we were, then you would fuel our economy and economy like a country can because you got such sources and the kind of responses that nice but we are not contiguous number one. number 2, in terms of defense still remains our biggest spot, although proportionately the share of russian exports to india as follows. but you still are far ahead off. i thought i had a number. number 2, we are the only country build a nuclear power plant in india. we have invested a lot in the russian enter the sector, like $1415000000000.00 invested in $1000000000.00 in energy

potential. we have our data relationship. it demands very, very good. but we'd like to address that when bramlet the movie was invited to the bloody was we had to say and be meant to participate in the development of the beast, including its oil and gas resources. we have sets about this on paper, at least the auction. i got it all which actually makes in if you made a big artist abandoned the whole concept of interpretation because you're all of it . so in, in very material terms, the relationship with it means very important for us. and if you work for a long time that russia is absolutely critical in terms of maintaining a policy. and despite this set of us connections, if you go as for under yeah, going, we are going to know what he can do to us who are different spot us. now you just

alluded to that there is a config difference in how rushman engine diplomat to your part of the world. the russians call it the asia pacific, while the indians insist on the into pacific. isn't just the linguist picking or is it truly reflective on how different maybe 2 hours conceptualize this asian well, you know, i think the russian side to the bush, she had that when 1st the concert alicia pacific was developed and it was not included because it stopped at me on my india, i was never considered part of asia, even the when the euro set up this us m, india was excluded. we told them how can the explore the 2nd biggest country in asia in an asian europe in dial in earlier on when they set up the impacts. so the asia pacific india was excluded. so in the office,

i think actually is recognition that in that cannot be an issue without india because he was in china century been a mistake as being nobody or china pacific either. right. or the simple reason that you are going to talk about is joe. and then you must include india. now you want to call it in though is that that's a very unrelieved formulation, but you can call it just. ready like, but in the pacific i mean distributed condition that india and pacific are linked because the security of india and pacific and linked on it applies to also your models sticking with interest in this region. so this semantic defenses to my mind are not very helpful because i continues to call it a shepherd city. the implication is that they've gone to consider, i'm sure this is not the case in the but at least the appearance is that you do not

come to that. india, as well as speaking about the americans are all to happy he'll you know, give him this verbal recognition because in official documents that they department doesn't need to refer to this region as the in the pacific. how susceptible how sensitive are they? indians do these kind of verbal flattery from american no, it's not love us actually, frankly, because the, the security of the indian ocean is absolutely linked to the security of the rest of the pacific dialogue. talking about the differences that ex country may. i would like on the western pacific about, you know, if the chinese some means are going to come in the, in the notion and doc at the colombo bought how they're going to go. they're going to come from the rest of the pacific. and therefore,

it is our job political interest, which i'm sure there's a huge experience. so you know, politics interest to see that giant us naval ambitions. and they don't create a problem for us in the indian, because they clearly made this known to the maritime project. therefore, it is quite normal that we think the security of the indian ocean into that of the western pacific. but beyond that, i can't see why anybody should should have any questions about the concept. all in the endo pacific bowl, i agree that from the american point of view, they want to emphasize the china set from our point of view, we want to talk about the security of the indian ocean, including the western indian ocean, where we have joined up with france and india and foster become say, very states a couldn't go to cooperate a players with regard to the security of the western indian. if i may, please,

one more question about interest relationship with the, with the american. the united states seems to put a premium on its relations, but india they're willing to go. they astra, mom, where you make certain assumptions for you, that they would not make well other than yes, your reasons or role that compared to the differences you have with russia, those of the united states much less confine. what do you mean by that? you know, the thing is that relationship with america has dimensions which i relationship with. no other country has off from the fact that we have big data. and some of the leaders are actually heading the big social media giants in the united states. 200010 students in the united states, bilateral stated, and in the $45000000000.00 differentiated, also growing up in the sector. we are slowly intertwined. and in fact,

we have a balance of trade with, with last economy like the united states. so there's lot going into non edition ship, but in the past, united states as being the biggest strategic all american, differently in the boss united states has done the biggest strategic damage to india or decades, sanctioning us eventing corporation in, in various sectors denying us technology getting in general and gives me back in august on even now, and they're just leaving or gone on. i think it will be the other bar and they're giving focused on a major role in august and knowing that collateral damage will be to india. but they're doing it because they're pursuing their own interest. so we are very clear about what our relations with united states. fortunately with abiding some

differences that have appeared regardless on this on if you don't have any cash offer geopolitical interest, you will have conveyed also china, they don't raise this issue because we understand what a couple issues are. nice family dot god understand for the life of me why united states as a shots and try not to get a job. politics wouldn't demand that this did reach out to russia to try and break this down as well and give some openings. so that sounds, but that's another story. well, if you have too much experience for my brain power, you know, ponder questions like that. i, i don't think there are many people in the american administration or on the same level. that's why they're not asking those questions, but anyway, we have to leave it there. i really appreciate your with them today. thank you very much for finding the time. thank you very much. bye bye. i'm thank you for watching hope to hear again next week on worlds apart from

me. me. ah . me only one main thing is important. not as an internationally speaking that is a nation's because that's allowed to do anything, all the master races. and then you have the mind, the nation, so the slaves americans, proc obama and others have had a concept of american exceptionalism. international law exist as long as it serves the american interest. if it doesn't,

it doesn't exist by turning those russians into this dangerous volume in their wants to take over the world. that was a culture strategy. so that was on your own. i english v i v. i not leashed off in one tablet block nato could. it's our we move east. the reason us had jimmy, it's dangerous, is that the sovereignty of all the countries, the exceptionalism that america uses and international war planning is one of the greatest threats to the populations of different nations. if nato, what is founded shareholders in the united states and elsewhere in large companies would lose millions and millions or is business and businesses good. and that is the reality of what we're facing, which is fascist. ah,

[000:00:00;00] use ah rocket strike in a residential area of cobble reportedly kills 9 people with many more injured pentagon officials are saying a u. s drone hit, a bomb laden truck, karen suicide bombers to the airport. meanwhile, the telephone, the boys extra security ad couple airport following horrific scenes earlier this

week when a suicide blast claimed at least 170 lives,