mission but yeah, i did think we should snare at it. we go 40 seconds literally only to think americans learn the lessons from this will leg. go into this kind of thing with a say my days again or will, will diplomacy rule more of a war? do you think? i think less america has huge lessons, i think it's or as almost as traumatic for america. this defeats as it was. the same thing happened to the soviet union and actually got rid of because the end of the soviet union 20 years ago. so it's, it's a massive moments of in america's imperial history, peter urban, former chief, political commentator, the daily telegraph, and again, the director of various documentaries about afghanistan. thank you for your time. and i saw look at event spot 20 years ago to the day and how they continue to affect the world since. so miss sombre of a theory of $911.00 on kevin. thank you for watching off international for moscow today. mm.

ah, join me every thursday. i'm alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guess in the world. the politics sport. business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. mm. the max ties are this is the kaiser report today marks the 20th anniversary of the 911 attacks. we're going to take a look at americas terror, industrial complex. stacey. right, and this is actually from a wall street journal. we're going to look at some data there about the surveillance state, the terror industrial complex that has built up and the kind of positive feedback

loop that has been nothing but negative for the domestic population. so the whole terror industrial complex started with the objective that they sold to the american people who are financing this is for international terrorism. for overseas, it's not for domestic. now it's domestic, right? we're already seeing that sort of roll out of like stopping domestic terrorist stopping that maga or any deplorable sort of people here. but the headline here in the wall street journal reads the business of homeland security thrives and the 2 decades since 911 after the attacks federal policies swelled a defense sector that has reshape u. s. surveillance, as well as northern virginia suburbs. and then we're actually going to skip ahead to this map here of the northern virginia suburbs there just outside of d. c. and you can see the explosion on a size,

the density between 212021. and you'll see that there's a lot of defense contractors, they're making a lot of money and they're doing well. the reason why that's a bad bad news is not only is, are they scooping up so much of our tax funds, but they're living very close to our elected politicians. and when they live very close with that much money to our elected politicians and literally only takes a $5000.00 cocktail party to impress that politician and get them to give them even more millions or billions of dollars and funds for this terror industrial complex. yeah, exactly. they are the what i think about it in terms of the show and what we've been talking about for so long is that we always say that the only answer, any policymaker house in washington dc with any problem is to print more money. whether it's an infrastructure problem or it's a social and equitable problem theory have the $911.00 tragedy. the answer,

one of the hyper drive to print more money. and we know that the ability to distribute the money is inefficient in america. we know that it goes to banks 1st, and so they were, that's how we got all these billing our classes. that's how jeff bezos made $200000000000.00. that's out. jim cook is worth hundreds of billions of dollars. that's how eli mosque is worth a $100000000000.00. is because after $911.00, that money printer go, bird went into this hyper drive. and of course those folks you know how to game the system where they're with their buckets. you know? gimme gimme, gimme gimme gimme. and now you know, the, the problems are really quite astronomical. so, and you can kind of tie their fortunes to the tragedies and the feedback loop, the positive feedback loop that happens with not only are politicians, but also the cable news. so in the peak of cable news and the peak of political, you know, fortunes post 911, he saw a member like dick cheney, and george bush all are there. favorability ratings went up. the ratings for cable

news went up, and then there was a bit of a down period, and now we're turning that around. for more tara threats more, mostly domestic now. but having to ramp up the military spend. so in the data they looked at in the decade following the terrorist attacks military spending more than doubled an absolute terms to $700000000000.00 or about 20 percent of total government spending. and 2011, the nation's military spending peaked at 19.6 percent of total federal outlays, and represented about 4.6 percent of g. d. p. by 2020, it had fallen to 11 percent of total federal spending and represented 3 and a half percent of gdp. now our guest micro hudson of course, disagrees with that number that it ever peaked at 20 percent. that's because if you're only looking at the military part of the budget,

not the whole apparatus of their surveillance state of the intelligence community, of the cost of the veterans administration and low cost of caring for other wounded soldiers and stuff like that. so i think he would probably say it's, it's even higher than 20 percent of government outlays. that was the military at the peak. right. well, all that money had to come from somewhere and you say that in a societal breakdown, you see that i just saw video philadelphia, it's become literally zombie land. and in chicago, just there are more murders in chicago now than couple. so that's where the money comes from. they can just came from the hundreds of millions of people living in the states and how you calculate g d p. as we've said on the show, many times the calculations for g d, p or inflation. the other government issued numbers is plastic, deserves or whatever purpose you want it to be. it's not forensic a spot analytical, it's not accurate in any way. right, well of course,

the d o d budget is also opaque, completely. nobody can see inside it. and of course, as michael hudson points out, it is cost plus, so there is no containment of their costs. it's like whatever they want to charge, they get to charge. and where it's going, according to the wall street journal, is much of the money flowed to the private sector. as commercial firms bid on huge new contracts to develop the next generation of security capabilities and 2001, the defense department had $181000000000.00 and contract obligations to about $46000.00 contractors according to a center for strategic and international studies. estimate by 2011. when war and security spending growth reached its apex, the department had 375000000000 and obligations to more than a 110000 companies. right, well, it's everything is now seen through the lens of panic

and fear. i think before 911, there are still some kind of you out of eve. let's call it. there is still some america had a character to it. after $911.00, the had the death of satire. we had the death of culture for the most part and the creeping surveillance day. and that's really expensive and, and it's become a fad. sad state of affairs, of course, whenever we have panic, cable news ratings for when they're soaring. then you see the raytheon, the lockheed martin this very military industrial complex start to take out more and more ads on the panic driven episodes of the matter report or of. but chris hays shows or cnn the they'll take out as against the panic signaling to the population support for war support for this the we're taking care of you. this is

what i'm talking about about these feedback loops. as you have that events of 911 and 20 years later, it's still rippling through. and the ripples are getting wider and wider, bigger and bigger, like capturing and not only more of the domestic population under the surveillance they, but victims of it. but also the, the, the swamp, as it is, you know, this is the deep state people. they're not so deep state. they're pretty out in the open. you can see them on a satellite is where they're living and the huge amount of money they're getting from the taxpayer. but the tax there will only give that money with favorable ratings if they're scared. so if they're scared, they've got a tune into cnbc might not say, well sam, b, c, f, as a market grass or cnn, or amazon b. c, or false. have to be scared, have to want, take all my money. stop this like stop my pains thought my fear stop this. so that's what i'm saying is like these feedback loops. the fact that these guys are so close to living right, where our politicians are,

who dole out these billions and billions and trillions of dollars. we don't know, speaking of the opaque black books of like, we don't know how much these, this war entire has actually cost us. you know, we don't know. right, well, ok, so an 11 marika was tacked by fanatics. and it gave rise to a new breed of american fanatic. these are the money printing. fanatics. these are people who are unhinged, who are worship the greenback, the, the dollar is their god. and they're, they've got their fingers on the printing press without any accountability. so their, their money fanatics, and that's cause the collapse of society in and soviet union like way that works burying thing now. and i don't think anyone really who, who looks at this picture with some degree of sanity, well refute that they have a quote here on the wall street journal, which is a promising at all there were there speak to this woman who's the c e o beacon interactive systems that used to be like a software company that provide

a software solutions to people. and then her quote is 911 is what made us turn our heads to the defense market place. you know, the thing about software developers and the sort of their, they turn it to the marketplace, right. and they have solutions that maybe weren't in that are still in search of a problem. so they have to create a problem like, right? so if we're wrapping up afghanistan, we've left afghanistan, no matter what the disaster is. you've got these people living all around, are politicians, they surround them like they're surrounding are politicians. they're going to have to pitch them. they don't want to lose their business, right? they need to pay for all their yachts, all their big homes or vacation homes. they're going to pitch them on something else in terms of how much money they've been making its federal contracting to private companies in there around the city i. d. c. so roughly a 15 percent average annual increase between 212011. while the federal

workforce payroll in the region grew by only 1.5 percent a year, according to government spending data, largely as a result, washington's regional economy was the hottest in the country between 212011. some people rakes in an and this aftermath the past 20 years. and i think we have it part of what you're seeing with that whole societal breakdown you're saying like not only that, the despair or death to despair, but also the weird hyper partisan ship and hatred, absolute hatred for you know, the other side. right. you know, it's, it's a great business to ban and more people are getting into that business. and especially when our people, a lot of calls, dad, are mortgage that, you know, the siren song of getting into the terror business working for american terrorists

in d. c. is compelling, right? so i don't see any end to this anytime soon. right. and it's also important to note that in those 20 years you've seen just check out old footage versus now of m. s m b c of cnn and stuff that all these same defense contractors. they're regular the regular co host, essentially on these news programs. and it's not often disclosed like their role in pushing that panic. pushing that fear, pushing the continuation of the pork barrel sort of money of this free money that they're getting to swap up and the fact that those same news programs then no longer examined it. they don't do investigative journalism. they don't ask questions of their good friends there, co host their co presenters on these programs. now 1st fun. absolutely not.

and things are looking to get much better anytime soon. we're going to take a break and when we come back, dr. michael hudson don't go away. now that's a positive feedback loop. the me ah. hello, driven by a dreamer shaped by those in me? i think we dare to ask in

a saying in the koran, if attributed to the brother my helmet, the dreams are threefold. sometimes they represent divine guidance, sometimes sorrow from the devil, and sometimes there about the conflict of daily living and past events. this applies also to women's rights in afghanistan, today, encouraged in the past to live out their dreams of being fully fledged human beings, african women. and now being told that this amounts to satanic possession when they turn to and on what can they count in this time of existential struggle? ah, the me, when i go back to the kaiser report, i'm at kaiser time out of turns dr. michael hudson pick up where we left it off. of

course is classic super imperialism 1st published in 1900. 72 is about to come out . it's 3rd edition. looking forward to that. you've got another new book, michael, the destiny of civilization. what's that all about? well, basically it's about how economists work and how, what people's thought was induct. capitalism is turned into something quite different. finance capitalism. instead of expanding like industrial capitalism, those with more and more technology and more and more capital investments, raising productivity rating wages and a positive feedback. financial capitalism is just the opposite. it's cannibal lives, industrial capitalism. and instead of creating products, people use it, creates and monopoly, right? so under the finance capitalism, the united states and europe have today. lauren more of america has to be spent

on goods and services, but on rent or on mortgage interest, they can absorb 43 percent of the borrower, resent them with government guaranteed 18 percent. but you will be is medical care for the medical insurance about 10 percent taken off the top or that and social security. and i see a wage withholding. and basically, 7 percent of the american genie bait is completely fictitious financial category called homeowners imputed rent. and its the rest, the homeowners had to rent their homes to themselves much were they charging at 1st? since rents, when a 20 percent last year, homeowners would charge much more money to themselves for rent,

even though no payment occurs. and so gdp appears to be going up. but when you take out the finance insurance and real estate sector, the fire sector is actually gone down. so my book describes how the fire sector is the antithesis of industrial capitalism. is everything that the classical economists of the 19th century and earlier 20th century wanted to do away with adam smith, john stewart, male and the others. wanted to get rid of land grants and monopoly rents and financial rent. and to them, a free market was a market. it was free of all of this unearned income and rent. but under finance capitalism, it's all about as you talk about on your show up and then up, it's all about creating and expressing interest and capital gains and income that has nothing to do with trading goods and services for people. so

i was asked to write a series of lectures to serve as a textbook for chinese, so that they wouldn't have to be sent to america, to study economics and economics departments and universities. which really isn't about how economies work. it's about textbooks work and it kind of parallel universe as if everybody were getting richer, industrial capitalism instead of looking at that and the buyer sector and what actually happens under finance capitalism. and the intention is to show chinese what to avoid, how to avoid the american trap that is shrinking the american economy and loading it so the china can prevent monopoly capitalism. prevent finance capitalism, prevent finance, housing a price is going up and create a socialist economy. so it shows that the destiny of industrial capitalism was

really socialism supposed to be socialism, but it ended up in finance. capitalism and the world is breaking into 2 parts. us dollar sector, which is finance capitalist and china, russia and the dollar arising economists that are trying to focus on industrialization and raising their own living standards specially mentioned as people and here, a siren in the background. you of course, are in new york and at the classic new york sound in the background. so i, thanks for that little ambience. all right, let's talk about. so china, of course, is launching the belt and road initiative, which is sounds like what you would describe as goods and services, goods, capitalism, as opposed to pure finance capitalism. and give us an idea of where we are with us in china because the dynamic there and what looks to be a classic through cities trap where you've got potentially china rising up as the

new dominant world economic power in the us taking a backseat. is that actually happening and what, where are we in that cycle? how? where are we with china right now in the us? the idea of facilities is a trivial ization. the people who describe us is that it express talk as if the us as an industrial rival of china. and we're both playing the same game and people are somebody's going to win this game. who can export more, grow more. that's not what's occurring at all. and it's not what occurred between athens and florida. cities completely destroyed the american idea of acidity threat. you made it very clear that the fight between athens and was between a democracy, athens and oligarchy. sparta there was a conflict the economic system. it wasn't a rivalry to see you could export more,

because the spartans didn't produce exports. they were a military countries. they, they conquered penetration support of oligarchy. well, that's the same. what america is, you could say is like athens in florida. you have america, is the oligarchy. supporting oligarchy, abroad and fighting against democracy, whether it's a democracy and ben as whaler or china, or cuba or russia. and it's installing dictator that supports people that have caused democracy. but it turns out to be an jelly, it turns out to be the latin american dictators. it turns out to be the 100 dictators that know, read through. so the fight is between america promoting this finance capital idea that other countries have to sell their industry to american buyers. it has to let americans buy control of their industry. so,

but other countries are turned into a kind of financial colony of the united states as united states, as managed america. and some other countries against that are countries wanting to become self sufficient, independent for their own food, rely on their own technology and case the economic assert was great at home to recycle as industrial countries are supposed to do. so the fight between china and america is a conflict between economic systems not for exports. after all, they want to export industrial parks industry from cheap labor and china. so they, when people talk about the facility strap, they're trying to adjust it up and a nationalistic form of saying it's us versus them without saying who,

who is they asked us and what's america trying to promote and who is the them and what kind of society are they trying to promote? yeah, good point. you know, we've been using this serious trap of that analogy now for quite some time. and you are putting it into context, given your expensive writing on these topics for decades. it's highly appreciative. now let's put this into contact with the what's happening in china. so you did a series of lectures. they wanted to know about how to avoid what i guess they perceived in the united states as being an over rely on the financial sector. which put the us at a disadvantage in somebody in so many ways. so where do you think china is in the globe a global economy now in relation to the u. s. what, what, what, how would you describe china right now is trying to avoid having an

oligarchy getting rich by controlling monopolies and controlling the back, sorry, style, right there. so in other words, when we hear news like they're cracking down on these big tech companies are cracking down on the various companies from going public. they're taking over all the bob. all right, so that's what's going on there. they're breaking up the oligarch police and they're bringing them where under more state control they're regulating not really understate control at all because they, they've rejected state control. what they want to do is prevent monopolies from getting our economic rent, but enable the leaders large over the rest of the population. they can say alibi, but we want you to be as successful as you can. but we're going to limit the amount of money that you can get, and we're not going to let you the 1st into creating credit and the become coming a was i back? all right, let me. yeah, let me jump in here since you're such a historian, a lot of people say, you know what, going back 500 years,

i believe for the ming dynasty. chinese burnt bound, their fleet. they had a huge naval fleet all over the world. the new guy came in and he burned to the ground. the theory was that he didn't want competition for merchants in interfering with what he had to do is there's a similar moment. yes, it is. today, the problem is and merchants and trade because the trade is sponsored, basically by the government they, their concern is the creation and the end of the monopolist were being subsidized and supported by the united states. the united states went to try it out and said, a free market is letting a few rich people become graphs and privatize public wealth and become billionaires integrate monopolies. that will be great companies that we americans going to best buy and we get rich off your stock market that is created by an

oligarchy that you will create so that we end up with the money. and you're all like arts or, or like arts are also becoming there's, instead of the chinese people getting rich. let's, let's all get together with the millionaires of the world and run the world by creating our own monopolies in our banks. and we can reduce the rest of the world, but your bill isn't the next question. what's trying to do with all the dollars they have? they've got over a trillion, they've got 3 trillion, i believe in their reserves. do they dump them on the market? do they keep accumulating? now what's the strategy there? they've been reducing their dollar reserves steadily and buying gold. and they may need reserves in order to stabilize the value of the exchange rate between the young and the us dollar. so they need these reserves in order to prevent united states from crime to crush the currency and doing the china. what did syria and

other countries that don't follow america in directors? so the reserves are protection, financial protection. basically you have a call on taiwan. there's gonna be some action there. i don't really think so because most of these want to invest in china. the question is the terms on which they will be allowed to invest in china and the reciprocity that the 2 countries are trying to develop together right now. all right, so dr. michael awesome. if i ever play the game of risk, which is a board game for world domination, i want you on making better take over the world. i think next time i play a risk, thanks for being on cause a report. it really good to be here, man. alright, and i was going to do for this additional report with may max guys are in stacy, herbert want to thank god dr. michael hudson till next time via the me. the

september, the 11th 2001 day that reshape to the modern world. i remember watching the world trade center burn on a tv at the cia and i was standing there like this just looking at it. and a colleague of mine was standing next to me and he said, my god, do they have any idea what they've done? you can, we're going to kill everybody now. everybody, the, the live tv images promote the us into declaring its war on terror. they've begun to bomb up, can villages on holders and get people hurt and, and kills the main goal of destroying terrorism. and then was it achieved?

yes. and no. ok to essentially no longer exists. good for us. but there are certainly other terrorist groups that are worse than i thought. smell, that smell like i mean i don't i can only describe it as metal and flesh. i was angry excuse me, 2 decades on the worst terror attack in modern history, the world commemorates those that died non 11 and assess is the collateral damage inflicted by the american war on terror, through torture. drone attacks and death. on the 20th anniversary we talked to those who suffered from the event itself to.