the join me every thursday on the alex silent shore and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politic sport business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. me ah ah. hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter labelle in the wake of biden's, humiliating exit from afghanistan. there are those in the u gen creek class, again, revisiting the possibility of a pan

e. u. army. what's happening to all that nato unity we are constantly reminded out also why does washington stay in syria after being defeated? enough canister. the discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess to send me well we in budapest, he's a pod cast for the gavel. which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow were joined by to me 3, bob, which is a political analyst and editor at, you know, it's me internet media project. right gentlemen, crossed out girls and effects, that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. okay, it's going to georgia in budapest. i guess none of us are surprised george that we here talk of a e u army in the wake of the exit humiliating exit from our anason. but this isn't something that we've, we've heard for the 1st time. this has been popping up left and right. and there

are those, it's make the claim, which i think has created for this, is this brussels looking for another power grab at the expense of others, particularly the united states. but then you have the atlantic system. it will have even more power to push back. i mean, i'm not really sure if it's a meaningful conversation, but we're talking about it because it is a conversation that is being loaded. go ahead, george. right. i mean, it was just made, so was launched every few years. the europeans of express the neuroses about all the americans are going to abandon us. they will, they've lost interest in us. so we have the, the famous cliche about the, the americans are going to be ready to sacrifice new york and washington. 2 barn and do so, the any was, oh, americans are vietnam and they've lost interest in us. european americans are in central america. they've lost interest in us. oh, americans are interested in the pacific rim. the not interested enough. so that's

finally teenagers. they figured out what they can do more effectively, rather than just wind to the americans. and that is to threaten the americans with setting up their own european army, their own security and defense identity, and then the american adventure. and this is something they will not tolerate. and this is back in the eighty's or later, you know, we'll madeline albright william cohen's now getting sure isn't that any low talk of european identity? europe must be firmly embedded with leisure. and i think this is exactly the same thing, this proposal that of setting up some kind of a 5000 strong, rapid reaction. both is a joke. won't even take the seriously of any kind of a military band ship. but as you say, you have caught the attention of washington and immediately stamping their feet as is salt. and the nato secretary general gave an interview to the new thing.

absolutely no question of any kind of separation from the will the men not only unlike me that they would do it because i mean, other than securing the european union borders and i'm thinking about immigration, i could see back something like that to me, but i was contended, and the reason why nato members don't really like to pay off the way from wanted them to is that they don't really see a major security threat of european union. certainly not russian because of russia . wasn't that they would be any money on defense, but they don't want to be. i mean, again, the, the entire premise of nato is in question with, we've talked about endlessly on this program. and this rapid deployment force is equally idiotic because, well then what i mean, we run it and we're going to call this to me. they haven't thought about it because they need the slippery slope. the moral hazard of nato is making his power

paralyzed the european. you mean when it comes to thinking about its own defense steamer? well, i mean, i agree with you that the thing is, your did, but it doesn't mean that it is not. that is not evil. i mean, if you look at people who push for the european army, these are the greatest russo folds in europe. i mean, you very just cage, russia. he's pathological about, you know, you have been saying last year that you can attack europe while europe hasn't got enough resources to defend it. yes, it's military budget. i knew the european nato allies. their budget combined is 4 times bigger than rush us. but still, americans have so much more jobs, so much more weapons that i'm quoting here. you will have to have the same amount of troops to counterbalance russia. so this idea is evil. and let me remind you of

that. the last 2 examples when we had the european army, this was during the put on a war which was catastrophic and hitler's. he was a back against the soviet union and they gave the civilized world a large people. we get. a the hitler had many allies, you have hungary, italy, finland behind him. and he basically used a european army to enter the soviet union. that is the sad truth, which a lot of people forget. so in my view, we'll look at the recent history or the so called american was, there were also european was, europeans went together with americans to gain stuff. they went together with them . but i don't think it was because they thought it was necessarily a just cause it just that it gave meaning to yes, we actually are a military, nothing is that actually they put it put flesh on bone. and i think that george, i mean, you know, i've talked about this quite a few times here. i mean,

it's not that they, you know, they wanted to make a commitment to the trans landing security environment. he said, you know, this is a way to prove that, you know, the mind has some kind of meaning. ok. i don't think it had any real security value . i mean, i don't know why the european countries were involved in afghanistan for example. ok. i mean, again, it was, i think, more of a justification than a meaningful contribution. go ahead. george. how's that is strong, because it was all about trying to justify nato's existence. i mean, this has been an ongoing team within mason member space what, what are we gonna do now out of the war. so back is gone. so in the ninety's we have the whole. busy humanitarian intervention, the brigades then, oh, wonder of wonders. the $911.00 attacks we have to then the both the americans. and again, this will be the contribution of the europeans was absolutely minimal. that is just

simply officially for the united states to say, oh, here we are. this is a joint venture, we're, we're all in together. you know, we, we've been both article 5 and this is a great team effort. it was never really a series european dimension to it. and then your bills really have very little interest in creating some kind of a patio or a vietnam is. what does that mean? can you will be an army nightmare for ever. all europeans will be germany and he goes to create an army that will have a strong. busy german component, even german leadership element to it. i think, you know, europe really wants to that's why it's always a matter of rhetoric. they get the americans attention. i mean, even cross uniform patrol by, by, by the idea of a great, that's the way you were being entered and then we can pack our bags, get on with our stuff. but as soon as trump old talk about the european density,

he brought up the subject. hey, we said hi, in the 2nd world war you on, craig is so so and that was trump. so i just think this is a way to get to get off the ground. but again, you know, the opponents and proponents of bits will point out. this is much more of a bureaucratic process. i mean it's, again, was i started out brussels accumulating powers, organizations, budgets, and even though it would be quite meaningless. i mean, again, a rapid deployment where i, i didn't care how many will be in there. how many, somebody, albanians, i mean, i really can't really bad the weather, and what would be the, what would be the, the issue? i mean, other, like i said, you know, illegal immigration, i mean, how are all these? are they going to pick? you know, let's go back into how can i said nobody and data really wants to go back and they're angry and they were told that the you were reading,

but i don't think anybody really wants to go there. and if the, if the english, the british or so that was your by go at it. well, i mean, i agree with george that there is no value would be an army. and if indeed the you had be and you don't concern with europe security, it should not create section on it. but it doesn't mean that the bad things are going to happen. i mean that the responsibility of the european union is boundless, said that we're going to go to a dentist on the 2nd time, but least doing ins georgians, logic historians. they all went to goodness, the 2 times the 1st time with the soviet, by the 2nd time with the american army. that's a fact. so there is a precedent. and if you look at the lead us, you know, merkel who well, i think with bites america though, if you look at her speech in 2003, they bought,

she was not the counselor, the support of the idea of germany participating in the. there are, but she used a different rhetoric, like we have to stand together with tonight the space. but if you're spent together with the united states in march, 2003, that means you want to invade iraq. so you, she had been in charge. germans been in iraq to just like they were. and so, and the rhetoric, i mean, the table picture that i see now is that the united states is going to be the and so with china and europe is going to the doctor crusher. and i am, i'm going to call you, i'm going to give you hundreds of calls about that like the german defense means don. a grad grove, current boat was visiting the american military base in guam, a little more than a year ago. i think she said the following in europe, our enemy is russia sheer. your enemy is china. so i mean, bureaucratically, you're right, it's going to be a paradise that's both for their own rights on our website. this allows the reviews

to double the administrative personal because if you have, if you were to be in force, that means in modern times you might have 100000 or maybe 3 bureaucrats gauging you drops and brussels is going to do it. you know, i understand that perspective you're bit george. i don't see the buyer in the belly of the different policies of the european union. i mean, you can have some crazy judgment and dame if you want a car, the baltic, they will always be up in arms about something here. but at the end of the day, or they want to get to spend billions and billions a euro's because they've been targeted. rushed, i don't, i just don't see it. i just don't see. i don't even know. i mean, it's a possibility of us being to suggest that there might be a division of labor within a so they say, okay, well, you americans, you know, you focus on the south trying to see the shiny, see,

and we will focus on russia. but the point is the european have lost any of to fight was, i mean, they haven't watched any was for many, many decades. i mean, we've seen how poorly they faulty and i've dentist seen a bully, they bought in iraq. it's going to be very hard to see how they're going to start shaping themselves up without the american leadership. i mean, i think much more likely is we're going to get some revival of those strange interventions in the 1970 is which people have forgotten how a french would fly into prop up to in air. and then they, they went into chad. all these strange nonsensical. busy french and eventually like you can't do that with right back for a gentleman, we're going to go to a store breaking up or bring continue our discussion and some really say with the

the, the rather driven by shaped person. those in me, i think we dare to ask me i have transparency for the powerful pharmacy for the bell. this cares about privacy. people care about is power. antonia and a son just become a symbol of the battles of brevity,

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ah, well, the 1000000 prompts that were, all things are considered. i'm futile. a bell. this is the home addition to remind you, we're discussing some real names. the, the rachel is to change gears here. you know, george again in the afterglow of the exit from afghanistan, humiliating one about there's a lot of talk about a new war on terror. the, the necessity of it there is, are creating a threat inflation when you brought my mind something 5 interesting that about very few people really want to consider is, was it really ever a war on terror? because it seems that in retrospect over the last 20 years, it's quite selective. because as i said, my introduction evacuation my dentist and then why stay in syria, georgia. oh,

that's exactly the issue. because to the extent that ever was a war on terror that was over and done with by december 2001. when basically the americans had thrown out the taliban, pushed out, arrested. all these people taking them to guantanamo bay. what did any of that have to do with the march 2003 invasion of iraq? because i was saying he was no friend of ok. the despite all the nonsensical propaganda from new yorker and cheney. and he was no friend of ok the and then we had the was on libya and syria. these governments were very much opposed to the jihad is. i mean they are, you know, they arrested jihad, is that no time at all for them yet in and then so we really what we've had is actually a war on the very government that actually fought against is on the head of war

against these nationalists, secular, is government all wrapped up in this phony baloney? talk about the global war on terror. and this goes on to this day. and if you ask why exactly are americans in the area? well, they were fighting isis. well, when you know, we've seen them a very interesting article this week by air on my, he points up been no fighting against ices. no, no, no one military mission up against price is the boat. so this is now become a rationale for continued america interventions, military presidents around the world. they are fighting isis, when in fact, they're doing nothing of the sold. will it, and possibly look at it did live. i mean, i, you know, me, the way it's being in love is being approached and, and in theory is that you have, you come down, you distill, went down to, there's good ice has been bad. i think there's good al qaeda and bad, all kind of,

i mean they did the stanley high themselves up into, into wrestles here because it doesn't make any coherent sense. and that's why george's premise, that there never was a war on, on terror is absolutely correct because it's very selective. and you use ice and all kinds of when you need them. i just down the thing to the years of war. go ahead even. well, i'm sure you are going to use us. i would be in conspiracy theories like how come just say don't either stay didn't find ice? yes. well, i'm going to use here. all you the facts that kind of mentioned as fact by western progress. ok out of 19 or is who can eat the 911, a terrible, terrible respect. she p in worse from saudi arabia. ok, one guy was from egypt. 2 others from yemen and denisia.

i miss they know that the saudi arabia does not affect denisia. it is not that that egypt ain't that, act iraq. and again, you don't know these guys was from iraq against the over me leave you. so where is the logic here? and i understand why people are formed of conspiracy theories because the western divisional russian aggressive country is just bonds, big while your brain conspiracy theory. right? so people have no trust, you know, that issue information. and that's why sometimes they think of theories of their own. i'm going to stick to fact here. i think george is absolutely correct when he says that these was lot a war against terror when, when bush invaded iraq. i think that even in the states, no, you can read them this tape in the article by daniel and coffee, the war on terror was a war over religion in the, in the more than sense, you know,

i think the people in washington have the people in brussels, by the way, genuinely believed that they got a force on their guns. they are new. i your geometry liberal. i go. i mean, another nice headline from district a that did gender studies loser game has been for us. they did because there is no one for gender in posh to or in or door or a diary though, and we just spoken in gauge. in fact, there is no charge board in russian, you know? but these people kept pushing. they, they are out to more than alter liberal ideas in the society just over. absolutely not prayer for them and that inspire fairies because there are no states. so the you invaded us why? the of the yugoslav did not commit a single period. they tried to defend themselves speak into the press, you know, write your books, they were silence. you know, this was not taken into cold. so i think, but of the reasons why there are so many tears because you cannot have your voice

cards in the west. the media, if you're ready and i was trying to do it. but george, you, if it gets found to be in the war on terror is actually a pretty good griff. right. i mean, you a general by a threat and then you prepare for it. you, you annihilated attack it and then you get blow back and then you start all over again. i mean, it's pretty convenient, isn't it? i mean, and then again, it's very, very selective. you know, we don't, we don't like that, look these, your hobbies are harmless. actually, there are helpful, these are against the but i mean it's all about labels, isn't it? because we have all pointed out here. maybe you're not saying an exact word. there's no code here and theory of the war. busy on terror it doesn't exist. oh no . that's right. by now everyone is already found the talking point. yes. yes. yes. the americans is the initial supporters of the g holidays in afghanistan in the

1900 ages. i was already okay. everyone's up on that page, but it went on, it didn't just and magically 1989 america continues to support jihad is symbolically a richard holbrooke. in his account of the war. in bosnia, both, both that the united states was shipping in jihad is into balls and said all it was the same as when we were backing style. and again, hitler in world war 2. so that's been there, right? yeah, we know that they will. so supposing that jihad is a cecelia and so and what are they doing? and they are absolutely determined to prevent before when it seemed in 2018 that the big government is going to launch an offensive against the americans on the trump threatened to bomb them. ask us if they did that, so they be doing this all the time in playing this little game of banking,

the good g is which we can unleash against the government that we don't like as opposed to the bad. you will do bad things to us. so i mean the american gold by surprise, you know, been lot when he was on man and he goes, launches this is the grateful sheila, one of these pathetic things in watching american media, particularly on the 20th anniversary of the events of $911.00, is that you know there is, there is a general agreement that the war in afghanistan had to come to an end. yeah, i think that's across the board. ok. of course there are neo com. wanted to see go on forever. but imbedded in the commentary and the narrative about $911.00 is that it could happen again. and, you know, if there are still groups in afghanistan resisting the talent, and that's the narrative we heard. we heard that 20 years ago. maybe we need to help them. me, they, they said there's temptation of

a repetition of constantly. and of course, there are be plenty of people with vested interest saying, yeah, that might be a good idea. you know? because, you know, we can start from scratch, start all over again. okay. because that how bad are back. ok. and again there's no coherent understanding and how to fight the is this co so called war. busy on terror, because know when a nice the power to be never taken on a one off basis. so you have to sell this entire bill of goods to the public for it to succeed. go ahead. well, i have my own collection, all absurd statements from not only american media, but american presidents like drunk said, oh, we killed the guy, albert doug. where did you q him be lately? which is supposed to be the stronghold of democrats resisting off of variable government? actually often would have killed him before the same story with random or weird the my of the car, rachel, they're going to people who resisted more than soviet,

i mean with just some, you know, sub machine guns. well, it is right. if you're now we have the same situation, africans with some machine gun to resistance and even more and more than on, you know, the american, the euro being honest, guessed, and well, i think it was not the american people or the european nations, the more the war guys, but it was the ideology which, which just didn't take into account any peculiarity just of all people. even though i mean look at nature in nature. we have all the species existing in all the fact that mammals are more than the rep that was done in the trap. i was have to die out in the same way in human society. you can nor force, very dears, which are now except in the states and western europe and which are very, very dubious. you cannot force them on a society in. so i got, i got bad news for here. demon the george,

you're right. a did work in denison now the power to be are trying and on half the american public. ok. so you know, they succeed. they failed enough. ganeth them. let's try and now in the west, i mean, you're seeing this particularly in the united states of the unwashed, the rube. okay. this, i didn't, you're right. the i the office. he died in the business, but it hasn't died in the west. george. so that is bad. things like right, and that is what is happening now in the united states on the biden of the war has been brought home. the war has been brought against the great war. the civil white supremacy is the tv, and that's the latest names changed, but they mean the same people the horrible in here, raise the organs and i thought, you know, the waging war against a renegade european countries. i mean this is done good or bad. hungary, poland, so it's a, it's the liberal meteorology that is how targeted against the boss,

massive humanity, it just doesn't accept it. and this is indeed why the globe, this was the one cause of the global war in gerry, which is just simply got this liberal ideology, is still prevalent and 911 and all the. so what i've done is it's still managed to decide that it's a minister society, and one thing is for sure gentlemen, it needs an enemy without an enemy. it doesn't exist. no man, no reason to exist as all the time. we have one of my guests in budapest and here in moscow, i want to think of yours for watching us here are the phoenix time, remember? ah oh, i use in the pacific leg around the world,

expedition by 1000 miles round the clock and give it to the dead. calm miss wilson in every country close by. it like the crew, gavin's food and one or 2 to chest. those little little thing is that everybody's love are almost no food and no water, but really give them up. so somebody stuck up in the cove if you're living like the but in the 21st century the

the, the the, the headlines is the f. b i publish is a long way to classify document from. it's proven to 911 on the 20, on the 3 of the attacks, while it's essentially for pace known facts, no accretion information is given to prove saturday involvement. the main reason families have been demanding the file also the next 10 days. always mean the disease has been defeated, his more and more people are suffering from long and severe corrupt corona virus. symptoms we speak with one of them. what makes it worse is that i can't even play with my.