living like the men of old, but in the 21st century. ah ah, ah ah, ah. hello and welcome to cross top where all things are considered. i'm peter labelle in the wake of biden's, humiliating exit from afghanistan. there are those in the u gen creek class, again, revisiting the possibility of a pan e. u. army. what's happening to all that nato unity we are constantly reminded out also why does washington stay in syria after being defeated in the

discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, jordan, send me well in budapest, he's a pod cast for the gavel, which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow were joined by to meet 3, bob, which is a political analyst and editor at you know, it's me internet media project. right? gentlemen, cross talk rules and effects. that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. it's going to georgia in budapest. i guess none of us are surprised george, that we here talk of a e, you army in the wake of the exit humiliating exit from anason. but this isn't something that we've heard for the 1st time. this has been popping up left and right. and there are those make the claim which i think has created. so this is this brussels looking for another power grab at the expense of others, particularly the united states. but then you have the atlantis says it will have

but more power to push back. i mean, i'm not really sure if it's a meaningful conversation, but we're talking about it because it is a conversation that is being loaded. go ahead, george to the right. i mean, this is nate, so was launched every few years, the europeans of express the neuroses about all the americans that go to a band and they will, they've lost interest in us. so we have the, the famous cliche about the, the americans are going to be ready to sacrifice new york. busy and washington. 2 barn and do filled off, and he was americans own vietnam and they've lost interest in us. european americans are in central america. they've lost interest in us. oh, americans are interested in the pacific rim than what interested in us. so that's finally, you know, i, teenagers, they figured out what they can do more effectively rather than just wine to the americans. and that is to frighten the americans with setting up their own european army,

their own security and defense identity. and then americans to venture, this is something they will not tolerate. and every, this is back in the ages or later you know, will madeline albright william cohen's with to now getting sure isn't any in low talk of european identity. europe must be finally embedded within major and i think this is exactly the same thing. this proposal that of setting up some kind of a 5000 strong rapid reaction. both is a joke. it won't even take the seriously of any kind of a military base ship, but as you say, you have caught the attention of washington and immediately stamping their feet as is stolen by the nato secretary general, who gave an interview to the new york time saying no absolutely no question of any kind of separation from they will deem it not only unlikely that they would do it because i mean other than securing the are being unions,

borders and i'm thinking about you, me go immigration, i could seize back, something like that to me but i was contended, and the reason why nato members don't really like the pay off way from wanted them to is that they don't really see a major security threat of your in union. certainly not rush it because that brush up was a bet they would be any money on defense, but they don't want to be. i mean, again, the, the entire premise of nato is in question with, we've talked about endlessly on this program. and this rapid deployment force is equally idiotic because, well then what i mean, we've run it and we're going to call this to me. they haven't thought about it because they need the slippery slope. the moral hazard of nato is making his power a paralyzed the european. you mean when it comes to thinking about its own defense? well, i mean, i agree with you that it is your to, but it doesn't mean that it is not. that is not evil. i mean,

if you look at the people who push for the european army, these are the greatest russo folds in europe. i mean, do you stop just cage, russia? he is pathological about, you know, you have been saying last year that you can attack europe while europe hasn't got enough resources to defend it. yes, it's military budget. i mean, the european nato allies, their budget combined is 4 times bigger than rush us. but still, americans have so much more jobs, so much more weapons that i'm quote in here. you will have to have the same amount of troops to counterbalance russia. so this idea is evil. and let me remind you that the last 2 examples, when we had the european army, this was during then the put it on it was which was catastrophic. and sheet worse. he was attack against the soviet union and they gave the civilized world

a large people. we get that he had many allies, you have hungary, italy, finland behind him. and he basically used a pan european army to attack the soviet union. that is the sad truth, which a lot of people forget. so in my view, we'll look at the recent history or the so called american was, there were also european was, europeans went together with americans to gain stuff. they went together with them, i wrote, but i don't think it was because they thought it was necessarily a just cause it just that it gave meaning to yes, we actually are a military, nothing is that actually they put it put flesh on bone and i think that george, i mean, you know, i've talked about this quite a few times here. i mean, it is not that they, you know, they wanted to make a commitment to the trans landing security environment. he says, you know, this is a way to prove that, you know, the mind has some kind of meaning. ok. i don't think it had any real security value

. i mean, i don't know why the european countries were involved in afghanistan for example. ok. i mean, again, it was, i think, more of a justification than a meaningful contribution. go ahead, george. as that is strong because it was all about trying to justify nature's existence. i mean, this has been an ongoing theme within nato member space. what, what are we going to do now? the wall, so back is gone. so in the ninety's we have the whole humanitarian intervention, the brigades then. oh, wonder of wonders. the $911.00 attacks we have for them to bowl the americans, and i think it will be though that the, the contribution of the europeans was absolutely minimal. that is just simply officially for the united states to say, oh, here we are. this is a joint venture, we're, we're all in together. you know, we, we've been both article 5 and this is a great team effort. it was never really

a series european dimension to it. and then your bills really have very little interest in creating some kind of a patio or vietnam. it's what does that mean? and you will be an army nightmare for all europeans will be germany. and he goes to create an army that will have a strong german component, even german leadership element to it. i think, you know, europe being really wants this. that's why it's always a matter of rhetoric. they get the americans attention. i mean, even cross uniform for trying. bye bye bye. the idea of a great you will be and i did it and then we can pack our bags, get on with our stuff. but as soon as we all talk about your an identity even brought up the subject. hey, we said hi, in the 2nd world war you are crazy. so and so, and that was trump. so i just, i think this is amazing to get off the grow. do you me, again, you know,

the opponents and proponents of this will point out this is much more of a bureaucratic process. i mean, it's, again, was, i started out a brussels accumulating powers, organizations, budgets. and even though it would be quite meaningless, i mean, again, a rapid deployment where i, i just care how many will be in there. how many it's in somebody, albanians, i mean, i really can't really bad the weather and what would be the, what would be the they the issue. i mean, other like i've been, but i said, you know, illegal immigration, i mean, how are all these kind of going to pick, you know, let's go back to how can i said, nobody. and nato really wants to go back and they're angry. but they were told that the beds were reading, but i don't think anybody really wants to go there. and if the english, the british are so upset with your by, go at it. okay. well, i mean, i agree with george that there is no,

but you will be an army. and if indeed the you had be in concern with europe security, it should not create section on it. but it doesn't mean that the bad things are going to happen. i mean that the responsibility of the european union is boundless, that we're going to go to a dentist on the 2nd time, but least doing ins georgians. logic of historians, they will lead to goodness the 2 times the 1st time with the soviet by the 2nd time with the american army. that's a fact. so there is a precedent. and if you look at the lead us, you know, who said with by america now, if you look at her speech, us in 2003, they bought, she was not the counselor. you supported the idea of germany participation in the. but you know, there are, but she used different rhetoric like we have to stand together with tonight the stage. but if you spend together with the united states in march, 2003,

that means you want to invade iraq. so you, she had been in charge, germans will kind of been in iraq to just like they were. and so, and the rhetoric, i mean, the table picture that i see now is that the united states is going to be the and so with china and europe is going to target crusher. and i'm, i'm going to call you, i'm going to give you hundreds of calls about that like the german defense based on the grad ground current bo was visiting the american military base in guam, a little more than a year ago. i think she said the following in europe, our enemy is russia sheer. your enemy is china. so i mean, bureaucratically, you're right, it's going to be a paradise that's both be over there on the rights on our website. these allows the reviews to double the state your personal because if you haven't european force, that means in more than terms you might have 100000 or maybe 3 bureaucrats gauging

you drops and brussels is going to do it. you know, i understand that perspective here. a bit, george, i don't see the buyer in the belly of the, of the different policies of the european union. i mean, you can have some crazy judgment endangered if you want just a car, the baltic. they will always be up in arms about something here. but at the end of the day, or they want to get to spend billions and billions a euro's because they've been targeted, rushed to, i don't, i just don't see it. i just don't see. i don't even know. i mean, it's a possibility of us being to suggest that there might be a division of labor within nato. is they ok, well, you americans, you know, you focus on the south trying to see these china seas, and we will focus on russia. but the point is that the repeal have lost any of the to fight was, i mean, i haven't watched any was for many, many decades. and we're seeing how poorly they faulty and i've dentist seen

a bully they bought in iraq. it's going to be very hard to see how they going to start shaping themselves up without the american leadership. i mean, i think much more likely is we're going to get some revival of those strange interventions in the 1970 is which people have forgotten how a french would fly into prop up to in year. and then they, they went into chad. all these strange nonsensical friendship to vanish like you can't do that with right back or a job, and we're going to go to breaking up, continue our discussion and some really say with the the, the i have often said transparency for the powerful privacy for the kids about privacy or

people care about is power. julian, a son has become a symbol of the battles of brevity. information is power. that's what's going on and a huge struggle with governments and corporations who want to keep information secret and others who think democratic rights should be pushed forward and people have a right to know what to do. watch alison's help to shift the conversation around transparency. see what that battle has done to him. i feel like julian's life might be coming to an end. we are in a conflict situation with the largest and most powerful employer in such a situation. it's remarkable to survive me. the welcome to prom statler. all things are considered.

i'm peter lavelle. this is the home edition remind you were discussing some real names. the rachel is change gears here. you know george again in the afterglow of the exit from afghanistan, humiliating one. there's a lot of talk about a new war on terror the, the necessity of it there is, are creating a threat inflation. when you brought my mind, somebody find interesting that about very few people really want to consider is, was it really ever a war on terror? because it seems that in retrospect, over the last 20 years, it's quite selective. because as i said, my introduction evacuation my dentist then then why stay in syria, georgia. oh, that's exactly the issue. because to the extent that ever was

a war on sarah that was over and done with by december 2001. when basically the back of thrown out the taliban pushed out. okay, to arrest all these people taking them to ones on them or what did any of that have to do with the march 2003 invasion of iraq? because i was saying he was no friend of ok. the, despite all the in nonsensical propaganda from new yorker and cheney. and he was no friend of ok the and then we had the was on libya and serious. these governments were very much opposed to the jihad is. i mean they are, you know, they arrested jihad is that no time at all for them yet in and. 2 then so really what we've had is actually a war on the very government that actually fought against is on the head of war against these nationalists. secular is government all wrapped up in this

phony baloney talk about the global war on terror. and this goes on to this day and if you are, why exactly are americans in the area? oh, well, they were fighting isis. well, when you know, we've seen a very interesting article this week by air on last day. he points out there's been no fighting against ices. no, no, no one. the military mission against price is the books. so this is now become a rationale for continued america interventions, military presidents around the world. they are fighting isis when in fact, they're doing nothing of the sold. will it? and of course, if we look at it live, i mean i, you know, me, the way it's being inlet is being approached and, and in theory is that you have you come down. distill, went down to, there's good ice has been bad. i think there's good al qaeda and bad, all kind of, i mean they, they, they take a stand, they, they tie themselves up into,

into wrestles here because it doesn't make any coherent sense. and that's why george is premise that don't ever, was a war on, on terra is absolutely correct because it's very selective. and you use ice and all kinds when you need them. i just thought down the name to the years of war ahead even. well, i'm sure you are going to use us. i would be in conspiracy theories like how, how just say don't i the stage given find the ice? yes. well, i'm going to use here. all you the facts that kind of mentioned as fact by western progress. ok, out of 19, earliest who can eat the 911, a terrible, terrible respect. she p in worse from saudi arabia. ok, one guy was from egypt. 2 others from yemen and denisia. well, i just, i know that they've sold your age. yeah. it is all that back to denise, you know that, that egypt ain't that back to iraq. and again,

you don't know these guys was from iraq against the over on leave you. so where is the logic here? and i understand why people are full of conspiracy theories because the western divisional process, an aggressive country, is just bond a big while your brain conspiracy theory, right? so people have no trust visual information, and that's why sometimes they think of theories of their own. i'm going to stick to fact here. i think george is absolutely correct when he says that these was lot a war against terror when, when bush invaded stand iraq. i think that even in the states, no, you can read them in the article by daniel and coffee. the war on terror was a war over religion. and in the, in the more than sense, you know, i think the people in washington and the people in brussels, by the way, genuinely believed that they got a force on their guns. they are new. i, your,

when geometry liberal ideology. i mean, another nice headline from district a did gender studies lose. a game has been for us they days because there is no warrant for gender in posh to or in or door or a diary though, and we just spoke. and in fact, there is no charge board in russian, you know, but these people kept pushing. they, they are out to more than alter liberal ideas in the society just over. absolutely not pray for them and that inspire fairies because there are no states. so the you invaded us why the of the yugoslav did not commit a single terrorist act. they tried to defend themselves, speak into the press, you know, write your books, they were silence. you know, this was not taken into cold. so i think but of the reasons why there are so many tears because you can not have your voice cards in the west, the media, if you're ready and i was trying to do it. but george, you,

if it gets found to be in the war on terror is actually a pretty good griff. right? i mean, you would get it by a threat and then you prepare for it. you, you annihilated attack it, and then you get, blow back and then you start all over again. i mean, it's pretty convenient, isn't it? i mean, and then again, it's very, very selective. you know, we don't, we don't like that, look, these, your audience are harmless. actually, they're helpful. these are against the, but i mean, it's all about labels, isn't it? because is we have all pointed out here. maybe not saying an exact word. there's no code here and the theory of the war. busy on terror doesn't exist. oh no, that's right. by now everyone's already found the talking point. yes. yes. yes. the americans were, is the initial supporters of the g holidays in afghanistan in the 1900 ages? i was already ok. everyone's up on the page, but they went on,

it didn't just and magically, $989.00 america continues to support. jihad is symbolically a richard holbrooke. in his account of the war, in bosnia boasted boasted that the united states was shipping in jihad is into balls and said all the same as well. you know, when we were backing style and again, hitler in world war 2. so that's been there. i didn't know that they will. so supposing that jihad is in a church there, and so, and what are they doing in syria? they are absolutely determined to prevent before when it seemed in 2018 that the big government is going to launch an offensive against the americans on the trump threatened to bomb damascus if they did that. so they be doing this all the time, playing the game of banking, the good g is which we can unleash against the government that we don't like as opposed to the bad. you will do bad things to us. so, i mean,

the american go by surprise, you know, lot when he was on man. and he goes the launches back out the grateful $71.00 of these pathetic things and watching american media, particularly on the 20th anniversary of the events of $911.00, is that, you know, they, there is, there's a general agreement that the war in afghanistan had to come to and i think that's across the board. ok. of course there are neo com. wanted to see, go on forever. but imbedded in the commentary and the narrative about $911.00 is that it could happen again. and, you know, in there, there are still groups of afghans that read this being that how beth and that's the narrative we heard. we heard that 20 years ago. maybe we need to help them. me, they, they said there's temptation of a repetition of constantly. and of course there are be plenty of people with vested interest saying, yeah, that might be a good idea. you know?

because, you know, we can start from scratch, start all over again. okay. because the taliban are back. ok. and again, there's no coherent understanding and how to fight the is this co so called war on terror? because know in a nice the powers to be never taken on a one off basis. so you have to sell this entire bill of goods to the public for it to succeed. go ahead. well, i've got my own collection, all the absurd statements from local american media about american presidents like drunk said, oh, we killed that guy. oh, but don't you. why did you kill him? he lately, which is supposed to be the stronghold of democrats resist him off of the terrible gun that actually often would have killed him before the same story with random or weird the maya, the car, rachel, they're going to people who resisted more than soviet, i mean it was just some, you know, sub machine guns. well, it is right now we have the same situation. africans with machine gun to resistance

and even more and more than on, you know, the american or the euro being honest, guess them? well, i think it was not the american people or the european nations, the more the war guys, but it was the ideology which, which just didn't take into account any peculiarity just of all people. even though i mean look at nature in nature. we have all the species existing in all the fact that mammals are more than the rep that was done in the trap. i was have to die out in the same way in human society if you can, nor force varied years, which are now exempted tonight, the states and western europe and which are very, very dubious. you cannot force them on a society in. so i got, i got bad news for here, demon charge. you're right. a did work in denison. now. the power to be are trying and on half the american public. ok. so you know,

they succeed. they failed enough. ganeth them. let's try now in the west, i mean, you're seeing this particularly in the united states of the unwashed, the rubes. ok. this i didn't, you're right. the ideology died in that, but it hasn't died in the west. george. so that is bad things like right. and that is what is happening now in the united states on the biden of the war has been brought home. the water has been brought against the great and was the so called white supremacy is the tv. and that's the latest names changed, but they mean the same people the horrible in here, clinton's crazy organs. and i thought, you know, the waging war against a renegade european countries. i mean, it's done good or bad. hungary, poland. so it's, it's the liberal etiology. that is how targeted against the boss, massive humanity, it just doesn't accept it. and this is indeed why the globe,

this was the one called the global war. and jerry, which is just simply got this liberal ideology, is still prevalent and you know, $911.00 and all the so what i've got is it's still, but i've got it. is it still managed to decide that it's a minister society in one thing that's for sure. gentlemen, it needs an enemy without an enemy. it doesn't exist, it will have no, may have no reason to exist as all the time. we have one thing, my guess in budapest and here in mouth, i want to think our viewers for watching us. here are the phoenix, remember, the rules? ah, the i have often said transparency for the powerful receipt for the ballast about

privacy. what people care about is power. jiliana sons is become a symbol of the battles of brevity. information is power. that's what's going on and a huge struggle with governments and corporations who want to keep information secret and others who democratic rights should be pushed forward. and people have a right to know what they're going to do. watch how much help to shift the conversation around transparency. see what that battle has done to him. i feel like julian's life might be coming to an end. we are in a conflict situation with the largest and most powerful employer. in such a situation. it's remarkable. it's alive. join me every 1st day on the alex summon show and i'll be speaking to guests in the world, the politics, sport, business and show business. i'll see you then. me

the pacific leg around the world expedition. 5000 miles. round the clock and the dead calm just as even every country close by the crew. gavin's food and water and to go to church doors. also bloom. it's got everybody locked down or no more. no food and no water. but really, i'm not sure somebody,

especially if you're still in the cove it you're living like the female of own. but in the 21st century, 20 kind of a sory of $911.00 president biden bows to pressure from victims families and be classified as a new document about the attack. although critics doesn't reveal anything new, negative, coven tests don't always mean the disease has been defeated. as more or more people are suffering from long and severe post virus symptoms, we speak with one of those people. what makes it, what is it? i can't even play with my children. i meant to be destroyed. i'm depressed every day is a disaster.