happening to all that nato unity, we are constantly reminded of also why does washington stay in syria after being defeated? an afghanistan, the going to these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, jordan, send me well in budapest, he's a pod cast for the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow were joined by dmitri bobby, is a political analyst and editor. and, you know, it's me, internet media project. right. gentleman cross talk rules and effects. that means you can jump anytime want. and i always appreciated is going to georgia in budapest . i guess none of us are surprised george, that we here talk of a e, you army in the wake of the, the exit humiliating exit from anason. but this isn't something that we've heard for the 1st time. this has been popping up, left and right. and there are those,

it's make the claim, which i think has created for this, is this brussels looking for another power grab at the expense of others, particularly the united states. then you have the atlantis. this that will have even more power to push back. i mean, i'm not really sure if it's a meaningful conversation, but we're talking about it because it is a conversation that is being loaded. go ahead, george. right. i mean, it was just late, so was launched every few years. the europeans of express the neuroses about all the americans are going to abandon us. they will, they've lost interest in us. so we have the, the famous cliche about the, the americans are going to be ready to sacrifice new york. busy and washington. 2 bowen and do still the study was o americans vietnam and they've lost interest in europe in americans or in central america. they've lost interest in us. oh, americans are interested in the pacific rim than just so then us. so that's fine. and is they figured out what they can do more effectively rather than just wind to

the americans. and that is to threaten the americans with setting up their own european army, their own security and defense identity. and then the american attention. this is something they will not tolerate. and every, you know, this is back in the eighty's or later you know, will madeline albright than william cohen's now getting sure. is that any and no talk of european identity? europe must be firmly embedded within major. and i think this is exactly the same thing, this proposal that of setting up some kind of a 5000 strong, rapid reaction. both is a joke. even take the seriously of any kind of a military base ship. but as you say, you have caught the attention of washington and immediately that stamping their feet as is sold to the nato secretary general, who gave an interview to the new york time saying absolutely no question of any

kind of separation from they will deem it not only is it likely that they will do it because i mean, other than securing the european union borders and i'm thinking about ego immigration, i could seize back something like back to me. but i was contended. and the reason why data members don't really like the pay off way from wanted them to is that they don't really see a major security threat for your union. certainly not rush it because russia was a bet they would be any money on defense. but they don't want to be, i mean, again the, the entire premise of nato is in question with, we've talked about endlessly on this program. and this rapid deployment force is equally idiotic because, well then what i mean, run it. and we're going to call this to me, they haven't thought about it because the, the, the, the slippery slope, the moral hazard of nato, his make, his paralyzed the european. you mean when it comes to thinking about its own

defense schema? well, i mean, i agree with you that the thing is, your did, but it doesn't mean that it is not. that is not evil. i mean, if you look at people who push for the european army, these are the greatest russo folds in europe. i mean, you very just cage, russia, he's pathological about, you know, you have been saying last year, the portal kind of attack europe while europe hasn't got enough resources to defend it. yes, it's military budget. i knew the european nato allies, their budget combined is 4 times bigger than rush us. but still, americans have so much more jobs. so much more weapons that i'm quoting here, you will have to have the same amount of troops to counterbalance russia. so this idea is evil. and let me remind you of that. the last 2 examples,

when we had the european army, this was during the put on a war which was catastrophic and hitler's. he was a back against the soviet union and they gave the civilized world a large people. we get the hitler had many allies. you have hungary, italy, finland behind him. and he basically used a european army to enter the soviet union. that is the sad truth which a lot of people forget. so, in my view, we'll look at the recent history or the so called american was there were also european was europeans went together with americans to gain stuff. they went together with them. but i don't think it was because they thought it was necessarily a just cause it just that it gave meaning to yes, we actually are a military nothing that actually they put it put flesh on bone. and i think that george, i mean, you know, i've talked about this quite a few times here. i mean,

it is not that they, you know, they wanted to make a commitment to the trans landing security environment. he said, you know, this is a way to prove that, you know, the mind has some kind of meaning. ok. i don't think it had any real security value . i mean, i don't know why the european countries were involved in afghanistan for example. ok. i mean, again, it was, i think, more of a justification than a meaningful contribution. go ahead. george. how's that is strong, because it was all about trying to justify nato's existence. i mean, this has been an ongoing team within mason member space what, what are we gonna do now out of the war. so back is gone. so in the ninety's we have the whole. busy humanitarian intervention, you this while the brigades then, oh, wonder of wonders. the $911.00 attacks we have to then the both the americans. and again, this will be the contribution of the europeans was absolutely minimal. that is just

simply officially for the united states to say, oh, here we are, this is a joint venture. we're, we're all in together. you know, we, we've been both article 5 and this is a great team effort. it was never really a series european dimension to it. and then your bills really have very little interest in creating some kind of a patio or a vietnam. it's what does that mean? can you will be an army nightmare for all europeans will be germany and he goes to create an army that will have a strong. busy german component, even german leadership element to it. i think, you know, europe really wants this. that's why it's always a matter of rhetoric. they get the americans attention. i mean, even cross uniform patrol by, by, by the idea of a great, that's the way you were being entered and then we can pack our bags, get on with our stuff. but as soon as from old talk about the european density,

he brought up the subject. hey, we said hi, in the 2nd world war you on, craig is so and so, and that was trump. so i just, i think this is a way to get to get off the ground. but again, you know, the opponents and proponents of bits will point out. this is much more of a bureaucratic process. i mean it's, again, was i started out brussels accumulating powers, organizations, budgets, and even though it would be quite meaningless. i mean, again, a rapid deployment where i, i didn't care how many will be in there. how many in somebody, albanians, i mean, i really can't really bad the weather and what would be the, what would be the, the issue? i mean, other, like i said, you know, make illegal immigration. i mean, how are all these, are they going to pick? you know, let's go back into how can i said nobody and data really wants to go back and they're angry and they were told that the beds were reading,

but i don't think anybody really wants to go there. and if the, if the english, the british or so that was your by go at it. well, i mean, i agree with george that there is no value would be an army. and if indeed the you had be and you don't concern with europe security, it should not create section on it. but it doesn't mean that the bad things are going to happen. i mean that the responsibility of the european union is boundless, said that i'm going to go to a dentist on the 2nd time, but least doing is georgians. lodges, historians. they all went to goodness, the 2 times the 1st time with the soviet, by the 2nd time with the american army. that's a fact. so there is a precedent. and if you look at the lead us, you know, merkel who st by america though. if you look at her speech, us in 2003, they bought, she was not the counselor,

the support of the idea of germany participating in the there are, but she used a different frederick like we have to stand together with tonight the states. but if you're still together with the united states in march, 2003, that means you want to invade iraq. so you, she had been in charge. germans been in iraq to just like they were. and so, and the rhetoric, i mean, the table picture that i see now is that the united states is going to be the and so with china and europe is going to the doctor crusher. and i am, i'm going to call you, i'm going to give you hundreds of calls about that like the german defense means don. a grad grove, current boat was visiting the american military base in guam, a little more than a year ago. i think she said the following in europe, our enemy is russia sheer. your enemy is china. so i mean, bureaucratically, you're right, it's going to be a paradise that's both for their own rights on our website. this allows the reviews

to double the administrative personal because if you have, if you were to be in force, that means in modern times you might have hundreds, thousands or military and bureaucrats given you drops and brussels is going to do it. you know, i understand that perspective here, george, i don't see the buyer in the belly of the, the different qualities of the european union. i mean, you can have some crazy judgment and dame if you want a car, the baltic, they will always be up in arms about something here. but at the end of the day, or they want to get to spend billions and billions of euros because they've been targeted, rushed to, i don't, i just don't see it. i just don't see. i don't even know. i mean, it's a possibility of us being to suggest that there might be a division of labor within nato. they say, okay, well, you americans, you know, you focus on the south trying to see the shiny, see, and we will focus on russia. but the point is the european have lost any of to

fight was, i mean, they haven't walk any was for many, many decades. i mean, we've seen how poorly they faulty and i've dentist seen a bully, they bought in iraq. it's going to be a very hard to see how they gonna book shaping themselves up without the american leadership. i mean, i think much more likely is we're going to get some revival of those strange interventions in the 1970 is which people have gotten how a french would fly into prop up to in year. and then they, they went into chad. all these strange nonsensical. busy friendship to vanish like you can't do that with right back for a gentleman, we're going to go to a store breaking up or bring continue our discussion and some really say with the the, the, the,

the join me every thursday on the alex simon show. and i'll be speaking to guests in the world, the politic sport business and show business. i'll see you then. me. driven by a dreamer shaped by those in me dares thing. we dare to ask me.

ah ah. well, the 1000000 prompts that are, all things are considered. i'm futile. a bell. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real names. the rachel is change gears here. you know, george again, in the afterglow of the exit from afghanistan, humiliating one about there's a lot of talk about a new war on terror. the, the necessity of it there is, are creating a threat inflation. when you brought my mind something 5 interesting that about very few people really want to consider is, was it really ever a war on terror?

because it seems that in retrospect, over the last 20 years, it's way selective. because as i said, my introduction, evacuation my dentist and then why stay in syria, georgia. oh, that's exactly the issue. because to the extent that ever was a war on sarah that was over and done with by december 2001. when basically the americans had thrown out the taliban, pushed out ok to arrest the only people taking them to ones on imo bay. why did any of that have to do with the march 2003 invasion of iraq? because i was saying he was no friend of ok. the despite all the nonsensical propaganda from new yorker and cheney. and he was no friend of ok the and then we had the was on libya and syria. these governments were very much opposed to the jihad is. i mean they are, you know,

they arrested jihad is that no time at all. busy for them yet in and then so we really what we've had is actually a war on the very government that actually fought against is on the head of war against these nationalists. secular is government all wrapped up in this phony baloney? talk about the global war on terror. and this goes on to this day. and if you ask why exactly are americans in syria? well, they were fighting isis. well, when you know, we've seen them a very interesting article this week by air on my, he points up, been no fighting against ices. no, no, no one the military mission up against ice is the books. so this is now become a rationale for continued america interventions, military presidents around the world. they are fighting isis when in fact, doing nothing of the sold. will it, and possibly look at it did live. i mean, i,

me, the way it's being is being approached and, and in theory is that you have, you come down, you distill, went down to, there's good isis been bad. i think there's good al qaeda and bad, all kind of, i mean, they did the stand they, they hide themselves up into, into wrestles here because it doesn't make any coherent sense. and that's why george's premise, that there never was a war on, on terra is absolutely correct because it's very selective. and you use isis in all kinds when you need them. i just went down the thing to the purest of warm go ahead even. well, i'm sure you are going to use us. i would be in conspiracy theories like how come just say don't either stay didn't find ice? yes. well, i'm going to use here. all you the facts that kind of mentioned as fact by western progress. ok, out of 19 chris who can eat the 911, a terrible table to restart. she p in worse from saudi arabia. ok,

one guy was from egypt. 2 others from yemen and denisia. i miss they know that they've sold your age. yeah. it is not a bad denisia, it is not that that egypt ain't that back to iraq. and again, you don't know these guys was from iraq against the over on leave you. so where is the logic here? and i understand why people are formed of conspiracy theories because the western divisional russian aggressive country is just bonds, big while your brain conspiracy theory. right? so people have no trust, you know, that issue information. and that's why sometimes they think of theories of their own. i'm going to stick to fact here. i think george is absolutely correct when he says that these was lot a war against terror when, when bush invaded stand iraq. i think that even in the states,

no, you can read them this in the article by daniel and coffee, the war on terror was a war of religion in the, in the more than sense, you know, i think the people in washington have the people in brussels by the way, genuinely believed that they kind of force on their guns. they are new. i your would ya delivery. i go, would you, i mean, another nice headline from district a that did gender studies loser game has been for us. they days because there is no one for gender in posh to or in or door or a diary though, and we just spoken in gauge. in fact, there is no charge board in russian, you know? but these people kept pushing their out to more than the alternate liberal ideas in the society just over. absolutely not prayer for them and that inspire fairies because there are no states. so the you invaded us why? the of the yugoslav did not commit a single period. they tried to defend themselves, speak into the press, you know,

write your books, they were silence, you know, this was not taken into cold. so i think but of the reasons why there are so many tears because you cannot have your voice curved in the western media if you're ready and trying to, in george you it gets found to be in the war on terror is actually a pretty good griff right, i mean you a general buy a threat and then you prepare for it. you, you annihilated to tacket and then you get blow back and then you start all over again. i mean, it's pretty convenient, isn't it? i mean, and then again, it's very, very selective. you know, we don't, we don't like that these, your hobbies are harmless. actually there are helpful. these are against the, but i mean it's all about labels, isn't it? because is we have all pointed out here. maybe you're not saying an exact word, there's no code here in the theory of the war. busy on terror it doesn't exist. oh

no. that's right. by now everyone is already found the talking point. yes. yes. yes . the americans is the initial supporters of the g holidays in afghanistan in the 1900 ages. i was already ok. everyone's up on the page, but it went on, it didn't just and magically, $989.00 america continues to support. jihad is symbolically a richard holbrooke. in his account of the war, in bosnia boasted boasted that the united states were shipping in jihad is into balls and said all it was the same as when we were backing style. and again, hitler in world war 2. so that's been there. i didn't know that they will. so supposing that jihad is a cecelia and so and what are they doing? and they are absolutely determined to prevent before when it seemed in 2018 that the big government is going to launch an offensive against the americans

on the trump threatened to bomb them. ask us if they did that. so they be doing this all the time. playing the game of bagging the good g is which we can unleash against the government that we don't like as opposed to the bad you will do bad things to us. so, i mean, the american cold by surprise, you know, been lot when he was on man and he goes the launches. this is the grateful de la, one of these pathetic things in watching american media, particularly on the 20th anniversary of the events of 911, is that, you know, they, there is, there is a general agreement that the war in afghanistan had to come to. and i think that's across the board. ok, of course there are neo com. wanted to see go on forever. but imbedded in the, the commentary in the narrative about $911.00 is that it could happen again. and you know, if there are still groups in afghan,

if that read this being the cannabis and that's the narrative we heard. we heard that 20 years ago. maybe we need to help them. me they, they said there's temptation of a repetition of constantly. and of course, there are be plenty of people with vested interest saying yeah, that might be a good idea, you know? because you know, we can start from scratch, start all over again. okay. because the taliban are back. ok. and again, there's no coherent understanding and how to fight b as this co. so called war on terror. because know when a nice the powers to be never taken on a one off basis. so you have to sell this entire bill of goods to the public for it to succeed. go ahead. well, i have my own collection, all the absurd statements from noble american media about american presidents like drunk said, oh, we killed the guy. oh, but don't you. where did you q him be lately, which is supposed to be the strong hold of democrats resisting off of terrible gun

that actually often would have killed him before you know, the same story with reagan or weird the maya, the car, rachel, they're going to people who resisted more than soviet, i mean with just some, you know, sub machine guns. well, it is right now we have the same situation. africans with machine gun to resistance and even more and more than on, you know, the american, the euro, being honest, guessed, and well, i think it was not the american people or the european nations, the more the war guys. but it was the ideology which, which just didn't take into account any peculiarity just of all people. even though i mean look at nature in nature. we have all the species existing in all the fact that mammals are more than the rep that was done in the trap. i was have to die out in the same way in human society. you can nor force varied years which are now except in the states and western europe and which are very,

very dubious. you cannot force them on a society in. so i got, i got bad news for here. demon dakota, george, you're right. a did work in denison now the power to be are trying and on half the american public. ok. so you know, they succeed. they failed enough. ganeth them. let's try and now in the west, i mean, you're seeing this particularly in the united states of the unwashed, the rubes. ok. this i didn't, you're right. the i the office he died in but it hasn't died in the west. george. so that is that things like right, and that is what be happening now in the united states on the biden of the war has been brought home. the water has been brought against the great and wash the so called white supremacy is the tv. and that's the latest names changed, but they mean the same people the horrible in here,

raise the origin. and i thought, you know, the waging war against a renegade european countries. i mean this is done good or bad. hungary, poland. so it's a, it's the liberal meteorology that is how targeted against the boss, massive humanity, it just doesn't accept it. and this is indeed why the globe, this was the one cause of the global war in jerry, which is just simply got this liberal ideology is still prevalent and you know, 911 and all the. so what i've got is it's still managed to decide that it's a minister society and one thing is for sure gentlemen, it needs an enemy without an enemy. it doesn't exist. no. may. i have no reason to exist as all the time. we have one of my guests in budapest, and here in moscow, i want to think of yours for watching us here are the phoenix time, remember? ah

ah, ah! in the pacific leg around the world, expedition by 1000 miles round the clock of the dead calm as every country close by the crew. gavin's food and one or 2 to chat for a little. i got everybody locked down or no more. no food and no water that only give them up. so somebody stuck

a fish in the cove in your living like the but in the 21st century. ah ah, is your media a reflection of reality? in a world transformed what will make you feel safer? type relation, whole community. are you going the right way or are you being that somewhere? direct? what is true? what is in the world corrupted. you need to this end. ah,

so join us in the depths will remain in the shallows. ah, i have often said transparency for the full receipt for the bell. this bit cares about privacy. what people care about is power. antonia and sons is become a symbol of the battles of brevity. information is power. that's what's going on and a huge struggle with governments and corporations want to keep information secret and others who democratic rights should be pushed forward. and people have a right to know what they're going to do. watch how much help to shift the conversation around transparency and see what that battle has done to him. i feel like julian's life might be coming to an end. we are in a conflict situation with the largest and most powerful employer in such

a situation. it's remarkable. the the 5, it leaves here moscow in the headlines this sub written doc union plus the government for rising coven cases and death. after lifting of lockdown restriction we, this is a bit different, a transgender fighter who before transportation, served in the us army special forces, destroys a female opponents leading feminist and sports experts. a gas, what they call a clearly and bike, mainstream media lash at its shine as moves the rain in tech charged despite much of the west and public themselves clamoring for similar move.